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What's this business about the new Flashpoint concluding the Eternal Alliance?


Aeristash

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The Sith Empire and the Galactic Republic are polar opposites on so many level they simply can't coexist... Morality, politics and even religions are opposite to one another. And yeah, their is your own Empire/Protectorate in the middle trying to mitigate things, but it just cannot work. How many times a single person can hold things off ? The Alliance is bound to crumble one way or another.

 

Now, my main is a Sith Inquisitor, and enlightened despot who rule with an iron hand in a silk glove... but even if I place her leading skills in high regard, I just don't see how she could maintain both the Empire and the Republic under her heel without destroying them and reshaping them completely.

 

The main problem with the Alliance that will be its downfall, in my mind, is the fact that it is entirely built around one savior who was supposed to fight off an unstoppable ennemy. You are the savior and the ennemy was Zakuul. Now, you have saved everyone and you own Zakuul. Your job is done and a lot of those who followed you may not see any reason to follow you anymore.

 

 

Who else would they follow? The failed governments who sat on their laurels and kowtowed to the invaders who made their life miserable? Or the competent Champion with a backbone who actually took care of business and saved the galaxy? I'm leaning towards the latter. Philosophical differences aside, the Empire, Republic, Jedi order, Sith order failed to protect their people when it mattered most and insecurities like that aren't so easily forgotten by those who were trampled underfoot.

 

If the pc hadn't showed up, Arcann could've kept both the Empire and Republic in check for all time. He crushed them completely to the point where all they could do was stage small rebel strikes while he took the lion's share of their resources. So to answer that question, one person could hold off these entities near indefinitely with the right arsenal. The Galaxy should be grateful to have a competent master holding its leash when the opposition is two squabbling fossils built on outdated ideologies.

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This is what I would do, given the story goals of a) returning the focus to the Empire and Republic, and b) not completely invalidating the last several years of everyone's time.

 

The Order's Mysterious Superweapon destroys the Eternal Fleet. Just all of it. Maybe the ships are all forced to self-destruct, maybe they go rogue and do their own thing like at the end of KotFE, maybe they all just shut down, maybe they jump off into deep space and become the new Katana fleet. (Or, actually the old Katana fleet.) Whatever the case, the loss of the fleet means the Alliance can't hold itself together by main strength; this, combined with the internal pressures alluded to (but not actually seen, although that's another rant) throughout 5.X causes the Alliance to tear itself apart. Systems declare independence, troops and fleets drop out of contact or have to be disbanded for lack of supplies, etc. The Alliance as a galactic power is done. What's left is the Commander and a hard core of followers (naturally including all the big names like Lana, Theron*, Koth, etc.). They're not strong enough to rule as an empire, but they can still roam the galaxy as itinerant do-gooders, or do-evilers or mercenaries according to your whims.

 

Naturally as a result of the breakup of the Alliance, the Republic and Empire will scramble to seize neutral and unclaimed systems, seek out strategic advantages, take over Iokath etc. What's left of the Alliance, being unquestionably some of the best insurgents and high-impact intervenors in the business, would be uniquely positioned to help or hinder them in the various crisis points that will inevitably develop. In gameplay terms this means something akin to Iokath, where you can choose from zone to zone whether to support the Empire or Republic, and can choose whether that's a full alliance or just a pact of convenience. The majority of your companions will of course stick around whatever the case, although it might be interesting to have some of the more political ones (like say Quinn or 4X) leave if you consistently side against them, like Koth did.

 

* You'll note that, per his conversation with you on Umbara, this is exactly what Theron wants.

 

A downsized private organization sounds like a good idea. Tho helping the vultures of the Empire/Republic pick over the remains of my empire seems a bit depressing I have to say. :( Romanced or no, if Theron is the catalyst for my Empire's downfall, he's so going to die no question.

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Goodbye alliance. I wont miss you.

 

IKR! The end to this nonsense hasn't come soon enough. These last two expansions have been a blight upon this game and some of the worst and most contrived storytelling from BioWare that I have ever seen, and only rivals The Last Jedi in awfulness. The only thing that would be better is them writing in that the whole Eternal Empire garbage was just a bad dream and our characters wake up and it's the next day after the end of the story in 3.0.

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Well written. :)

 

I humbly disagree completely, though. I never wanted any kind of throne, nor did I ever want to meddle in politics and diplomatic shenanigans. All I wanted to do was take my beat-up ship and my crew of loyal (albeit sometimes very annoying) friends and hunt down marks.

 

I've lost so much time doing Lana's and Theron's bidding, walking a tightrope between them and Koth and Senya and who-have-you to keep them all from simply killing each other. I could have spent all that time looking for my wife, looking for a way for the two of us to disappear. But instead I'm supposed to deal with a deranged, brainwashed, maybe possessed spoiled brat, force ghosts galore, droids that think they're people. And I should be taking into consideration what everyone else thinks. I have to make decisions that affect not just the head honchos of the former Empire and Republic, but every kid on Zakuul, too.

 

I can handle being the Big Boss of a few jawas and a disgruntled former smuggler or two. But this? Having the whole galaxy at my mercy? No way, not for me.

Look, I'll even help you find someone else, if Lana or Theron don't want the job. Free of charge (but don't tell my wife, if I ever find her). Maybe Sana-Rae, you know, that lady from Voss who seems to be pretty neutral? Really, anyone but me, so I can go back to doing what I want to be doing instead of all this blahblah Force-this, Force-that, renegade droids the other.

 

I saw it a bit differently in terms of domestic bliss. The Eternal Alliance to me was the foundation for which my mark on the galaxy with my loved one would endure through the ages. The dynasty that my Knight, warrior, smug, Inquisitor, ect would hand down to their descendants or adopted protege's descendants. That home we had talked about building with our children, resplendent with royalty, servants, wealth and infinite power! When I think of that gone, I can't help but remember Kalig's speech about trusting no one and not failing to secure the family's glory like he did. :o

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Why does the Alliance have to separate into Republic/Empire again to begin with? That's like the Alliance and the Horde in WoW going their separate ways after the fall of Arthas instead of uniting to create a better world.

 

There's no reason the two factions can't at least coexist in peace.

 

The Alliance has to fall apart at some point and lead to renewed conflict between the Republic and Empire because the Empire eventually gets destroyed by the Republic in the established timeline. SWTOR couldn't have the Alliance be permanent without branching the story off into an alternate timeline that does not connect to the films or other prequel EU stories.

 

Also there is no mention of Zakuul again so it has to fade into obscurity or (hopefully) be destroyed.

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I'm not interested in being the most powerful force in the universe, that's great when a game is over, not in an ongoing story like swtor.

I don't see why rebuilding the faction you were a part of means that you have to be a "lackey" I guess it depends on how they write it, but in WoW as an alliance member, they certainly don't make you feel like you're a lackey.

 

Not necessarily. It worked in Inquisition, Andromeda, Warlords of Draenor and Legion. Depends on how you define that powerful force. Having an organization to keep the children in line isn't a bad thing. And it's not like authority isn't being contested and one is just crushing all opposition with the snap of a finger. Wanting to jump down there with the children to aid their vendettas can get tedious. I know during the legion expansion for WoW some people complained about heading up their own organizations because they wanted to be 'Joe nobody' solving problems with just a bag of gold and no thank yous. I think Blizzard had a wonderful response to those complaints when they said you've been through too many trials and accomplished too much to go back to being a nameless soldier in the crowd. I heard the whole reset time and put us on a planet where we're nobody theories during that time too. As one with ambition however, I'm glad my sacrifices were recognized with the authority my competence commanded.

 

 

As for rebuilding factions, why? They failed, they were crushed by their opposition. Why spend time down in the trenches rebuilding a weak failed society when you've already built a new superior one? It's like watching someone trip & fall in a race and then running back so you can carry them to the finish line on your back so they can claim the win. What's the point? And then there's the whole issue of if you betrayed your respective faction to join their enemy. Surely Traitors wouldn't be prone to rebuild the factions they stabbed in the back nor would those factions be eager for their aid. Well I suppose those who regret their actions and want forgiveness would be happy to help to rebuild, but then there are those that have no regret in turning coat. Should they be forced wear their original government's leash as they are made to heal the damage they helped inflict in the name of atonement?

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Also, right now you're nothing more than a glorified "lackey" of Theron and Beniko. They tell you where to go and what to do, and you do it. If you're late, Beniko will yell at you (see chapter 12 of KOTFE). :rolleyes:

 

Lana is the personal Adviser to the throne, that's what she's supposed to do. Direct her master to where their talents would be most beneficial to supporting the Empire. Sure she's a bit eccentric sometime, but she is supposed to be her master's best friend/close confidant/spy overseer, so I give her a pass for getting informal sometimes. She's earned it with her sacrifices for her master's glory, even attempting to give her life many times for her master's sake. If the Empire ever falls apart, she is going to get one helluva secretary reference from me! She's commanding when she has to be, but otherwise shows her Master nothing but respect and a bowed back. Such as when she promised not to rest until Theron was begging for mercy at her master's feet. Lana... :o

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The problem is some of us have supported the opposite faction and I don't care how you look it at neither side will accept someone like that so how in the world is BW going to do that. My sith sorceress and agent support the Republic not the Empire and please anyone who thinks the Empire will accept that is drinking some sort of mind boggling koolaide. The sith will in no way accept a person, by their standards, betrayed them and supported the other faction. This cannot be wished away if they actually cared about your decisions (which I seriously doubt they do)
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The problem is some of us have supported the opposite faction and I don't care how you look it at neither side will accept someone like that so how in the world is BW going to do that. My sith sorceress and agent support the Republic not the Empire and please anyone who thinks the Empire will accept that is drinking some sort of mind boggling koolaide. The sith will in no way accept a person, by their standards, betrayed them and supported the other faction. This cannot be wished away if they actually cared about your decisions (which I seriously doubt they do)

 

This is my main issue tbh. I never really wanted my Smuggler to support the Republic in any form or fashion, and keeping her off of Vaiken Spacedock is just excluding her from potentially very lucrative business opportunities : (

 

Ideally, I'd want Smugglers (and Bounty Hunters, why not?) to be able to access both sides. But in this particular instance, my character legit sided with the Empire, and wants nothing to do with the Republic that tried to have her killed - twice.

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If i remember Vulkks interview with the devs correctly, they didn't say that the Alliance falls. They were talking about the Nathema flashpoint and the aftermath of Valkorions death while mentioning that the KotXX storyline is over and 6.0 will focus on empire vs republic again. The war for Iokath did that too, it was empire vs republic with the player having to choose which one to support.

I think that's essentially how the entire return to empire vs republic was meant. For this to work out the alliance of course needs to be weakened, i suppose this happens during the conclusion of the traitor arc. My guess:

 

Some big bad superweapon is unleashed and the alliance looses a major part of its forces fighting it. And during this weakened state both, the empire and the republic, make their move to regain control over their own independence from the de facto alliance supremacy. The alliance is still in control of Odessen and has significant military ressources, at least too significant for either the republic or the empire willing to risk loosing troops fighting it. At least not anymore since the alliance no longer has the power to push the other galactic players around. In the future the PC has to choose to either team up with the empire or the republic in localized conflicts during their once again escalating war. With the alliance still mostly independent, none of this choice will be permanent, more like a independent mercenary group or the Hutt cartel. The advantages are clear:

 

1) Players who invested time and ressources into building up Odessen into a real alliance headquarter won't loos their base.

2) The PC doesn't turn into a lackey again.

3) The story can return to SWTOR classics without dumping everything the PC has achieved since SoR.

4) Rep and imp companions can stay part of the PC team.

5) It doesn't matter if the PC "betrayed" the original faction since he / she is still mostly independent.

 

Anyway i think Bioware has to clean up the current mess they made up before 6.0 can launch. I think that'll happen just like the pre SoR content: Flashpoints with cutscenes in between. Things that need to happen pre 6.0 to build up a clean foundation for the post KotET galaxy:

 

1) Acina needs to be die, either killed during the war for Iokath or in the aftermath. Most likely she gets assassinated by some oldschool Sith who disliked her kinda liberal approach on the future Sith empire (pro alien, less backstabbing among the Sith etc) Her successor most likely is Vowrawn as mentioned during the Copero flashpoint if the PC sided with the republic on Iokath. We already know who he is, so no new character needs to be introduced.

 

2) Supreme commander Malcolm needs to die too for the same reason. Propably Garza becomes the new Supreme commander?

 

3) The Republic needs a new chancellor and we need to see him / her. Maybe this chancellor Rans or whatever her name was (again mentioned during the Copero FP).

 

4) We need to know what happened to the Jedi order and who is in charge now. I find it unlikely that Satele returned to her former position.

 

5) We need a new person / faction as villain for more than just one story arc. Someone pulling strings in the background. So while the PC and the remains of the alliance support either the republic or the empire during localized conflicts during this new war, they also investigate this new threat lingering in the shadows.

 

Propably some shady, greedy individuals manipulating the still weakened republic and empire into a new all out war for their own gains, leading to the foundation of the Intergalactic banking clan on the way. I like this idea because we (or at least i) know very little about this organisation and it would lead us back into more "Star Warsy" lore territory.

 

 

Edit:

However, IF Therons actions lead to the downfall of the alliance (either due to his own doing or just by not telling his master in the first place) i DEMAND a kill option. There is NO WAY how my empress would ever forgive him a screw up of this scale. She'd chopp off his head after a long and painfull lightning session and send it to his damn mother in a basket.

Edited by McBaal
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However, IF Therons actions lead to the downfall of the alliance (either due to his own doing or just by not telling his master in the first place) i DEMAND a kill option. There is NO WAY how my empress would ever forgive him a screw up of this scale. She'd chopp off his head after a long and painfull lightning session and send it to his damn mother in a basket.

 

That's something I didn't consider. If Theron's actions cause the end of the Alliance, then I will probably kill him too, after dumping him :(

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The problem is some of us have supported the opposite faction and I don't care how you look it at neither side will accept someone like that so how in the world is BW going to do that. My sith sorceress and agent support the Republic not the Empire and please anyone who thinks the Empire will accept that is drinking some sort of mind boggling koolaide. The sith will in no way accept a person, by their standards, betrayed them and supported the other faction. This cannot be wished away if they actually cared about your decisions (which I seriously doubt they do)

 

For Sith going back to the Empire this really isn't a problem. You just go to wherever the people who think they're in charge are and ask if any of them have a problem with you. "Discuss," the matter with the most vocal opponent in standard Sith style, and then ask if anyone else has a problem. Repeat as needed until all the survivors agree that they're fine with whatever you want, or until there are no survivors left.

 

There's only a problem if your Sith is so virtuous that they're not willing to cut a bloody swath through high Imperial and Sith officialdom.

 

For non-sith, or for rejoining the Republic it's a great deal more problematic.

 

5) We need a new person / faction as villain for more than just one story arc. Someone pulling strings in the background. So while the PC and the remains of the alliance support either the republic or the empire during localized conflicts during this new war, they also investigate this new threat lingering in the shadows.

 

Propably some shady, greedy individuals manipulating the still weakened republic and empire into a new all out war for their own gains, leading to the foundation of the Intergalactic banking clan on the way. I like this idea because we (or at least i) know very little about this organisation and it would lead us back into more "Star Warsy" lore territory.

 

There are some in game options for this already.

 

Geno Haradan

Star Cabal ? Forget if that's the right name, but I don't believe they were ever fully rooted out.

Hutt Cartel, yes they've been rather terrified of main characters, but they're also opportunists that have trouble resisting reaching for things that look like opportunities.

Edited by Ramalina
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How about the Mandalorians? On Rishi, Shae Vizla stated she's not an Imperial lackey. So if the Outlander is a Mando, will he or she be allowed to tell both Imp and Rep goodbye and follow Mandalore?

 

Screw following Mandalore.... BECOME Mandalore! :t_frown:

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If i remember Vulkks interview with the devs correctly, they didn't say that the Alliance falls. They were talking about the Nathema flashpoint and the aftermath of Valkorions death while mentioning that the KotXX storyline is over and 6.0 will focus on empire vs republic again. The war for Iokath did that too, it was empire vs republic with the player having to choose which one to support.

I think that's essentially how the entire return to empire vs republic was meant. For this to work out the alliance of course needs to be weakened, i suppose this happens during the conclusion of the traitor arc. My guess:

 

Some big bad superweapon is unleashed and the alliance looses a major part of its forces fighting it. And during this weakened state both, the empire and the republic, make their move to regain control over their own independence from the de facto alliance supremacy. The alliance is still in control of Odessen and has significant military ressources, at least too significant for either the republic or the empire willing to risk loosing troops fighting it. At least not anymore since the alliance no longer has the power to push the other galactic players around. In the future the PC has to choose to either team up with the empire or the republic in localized conflicts during their once again escalating war. With the alliance still mostly independent, none of this choice will be permanent, more like a independent mercenary group or the Hutt cartel. The advantages are clear:

 

1) Players who invested time and ressources into building up Odessen into a real alliance headquarter won't loos their base.

2) The PC doesn't turn into a lackey again.

3) The story can return to SWTOR classics without dumping everything the PC has achieved since SoR.

4) Rep and imp companions can stay part of the PC team.

5) It doesn't matter if the PC "betrayed" the original faction since he / she is still mostly independent.

 

Anyway i think Bioware has to clean up the current mess they made up before 6.0 can launch. I think that'll happen just like the pre SoR content: Flashpoints with cutscenes in between. Things that need to happen pre 6.0 to build up a clean foundation for the post KotET galaxy:

 

1) Acina needs to be die, either killed during the war for Iokath or in the aftermath. Most likely she gets assassinated by some oldschool Sith who disliked her kinda liberal approach on the future Sith empire (pro alien, less backstabbing among the Sith etc) Her successor most likely is Vowrawn as mentioned during the Copero flashpoint if the PC sided with the republic on Iokath. We already know who he is, so no new character needs to be introduced.

 

2) Supreme commander Malcolm needs to die too for the same reason. Propably Garza becomes the new Supreme commander?

 

3) The Republic needs a new chancellor and we need to see him / her. Maybe this chancellor Rans or whatever her name was (again mentioned during the Copero FP).

 

4) We need to know what happened to the Jedi order and who is in charge now. I find it unlikely that Satele returned to her former position.

 

5) We need a new person / faction as villain for more than just one story arc. Someone pulling strings in the background. So while the PC and the remains of the alliance support either the republic or the empire during localized conflicts during this new war, they also investigate this new threat lingering in the shadows.

 

Propably some shady, greedy individuals manipulating the still weakened republic and empire into a new all out war for their own gains, leading to the foundation of the Intergalactic banking clan on the way. I like this idea because we (or at least i) know very little about this organisation and it would lead us back into more "Star Warsy" lore territory.

 

 

Edit:

However, IF Therons actions lead to the downfall of the alliance (either due to his own doing or just by not telling his master in the first place) i DEMAND a kill option. There is NO WAY how my empress would ever forgive him a screw up of this scale. She'd chopp off his head after a long and painfull lightning session and send it to his damn mother in a basket.

 

As long as we retain our sovereignty & independence, that's an acceptable solution. I'd rather be somewhat weakened than completely ruined and forced to crawl back to one of the other factions for political asylum. :o

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That's something I didn't consider. If Theron's actions cause the end of the Alliance, then I will probably kill him too, after dumping him :(

 

I third that notion. Romanced or no I'm just not tolerant enough to forgive the audacious subject who would burn down my home around me in the name of bringing my power in line.

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If i remember Vulkks interview with the devs correctly, they didn't say that the Alliance falls. They were talking about the Nathema flashpoint and the aftermath of Valkorions death while mentioning that the KotXX storyline is over and 6.0 will focus on empire vs republic again. The war for Iokath did that too, it was empire vs republic with the player having to choose which one to support.

I think that's essentially how the entire return to empire vs republic was meant. For this to work out the alliance of course needs to be weakened, i suppose this happens during the conclusion of the traitor arc. My guess:

 

Some big bad superweapon is unleashed and the alliance looses a major part of its forces fighting it. And during this weakened state both, the empire and the republic, make their move to regain control over their own independence from the de facto alliance supremacy. The alliance is still in control of Odessen and has significant military ressources, at least too significant for either the republic or the empire willing to risk loosing troops fighting it. At least not anymore since the alliance no longer has the power to push the other galactic players around. In the future the PC has to choose to either team up with the empire or the republic in localized conflicts during their once again escalating war. With the alliance still mostly independent, none of this choice will be permanent, more like a independent mercenary group or the Hutt cartel. The advantages are clear:

 

1) Players who invested time and ressources into building up Odessen into a real alliance headquarter won't loos their base.

2) The PC doesn't turn into a lackey again.

3) The story can return to SWTOR classics without dumping everything the PC has achieved since SoR.

4) Rep and imp companions can stay part of the PC team.

5) It doesn't matter if the PC "betrayed" the original faction since he / she is still mostly independent.

(snip)

 

I could go for this. It would be the best way to reconcile the conflicting desires players have right now (ie, some wish to return to the factions; others wish to stay with the Alliance), and would prevent players from losing cross-faction romances and companions and all they've done to build the Alliance.

 

The factions are so darn boring, and IMHO if the player character goes back to taking orders from some leader there, they are returning to being a lackey. Right now they're in charge (and everyone's got advisors). Anything less is a step down.

 

I agree that Acina and Jace Malcom probably aren't long for this world regardless of who you allied with, though. Unless they pleasantly surprise us in 6.90 it's pretty obvious that they don't really intend on doing divergent stories anymore, and they probably need two leaders who will be alive in everyone's story. So that's Vowrawn and whoever takes over for the Republic.

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Oh no, I killed that swine for the whole 5-year imprisonment business :p

 

How could you do that?? Don't you know he's a saint now?? He will even craft some armor for your character! You are such a naughty boy ( or girl)! Gonna call Lady of Pain ( rattataki from BH story) to discipline you! :p

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I really hope that the creative team and writers have taken into consideration the full ramifications of ending the Alliance.

 

While it seemed like the upcoming flashpoint is going to be the end of the traitor arc and the end of the alliance it also seems high unlikely that the alliance could fall apart because of one person working as a traitor or a double agent. But more than this how the eternal alliance has been an almost non entity, so to end it now would lead to the question why it was formed at all.

 

It was Mandalorians that fought on Darvannis, while next chapter the eternal empire did next to nothing when Arcann invaded. The Sith Empire had to come to the rescue on Voss cause the Eternal Alliance didn't have enough troops to defend one world (and mostly used Mandalorian allies) and then were outnumbered when Vaylin invaded. So up until this point the Alliance was pretty pointless. Then it gets the fleet and becomes a power in the galaxy.

 

After which you do nothing with it. There are some minor cut scenes about aid or picking sides which don't seem to then result in anything happening despite being in command of the most powerful fleet ever. Making the commander some what useless.

 

Then after 1 chapter, 1 daily and 3 flashpoints (2 of which are very story lite) this alliance which you are leader of is destroyed by the actions of a cult of losers and a traitor. Which has to lead to a question of what was the point of creating the Eternal alliance in the first place. Your Eternal Alliance is a pathetic organisation that proves to be completely ineffective at everything and then destroyed, while its command proves to be more inept than Vaylin or Arcann yet was supposedly the only being in the galaxy Valkorian took notice of.

 

So should the Alliance with its vast wealth and 40 or so companions (alerts), invincible fleet, 4 legendary Alliance Specialists, alliance with the Republic or Empire, Mandalorian support (hell Mandalore the Avenger is your Hench woman) etc etc etc come crashing down, its going to take some amazing story telling for players not to feel cheated. You the Alliance commander who brought down the Eternal Empire spent all your time chasing Theron aimlessly across 2 flashpoints is utterly outsmarted by the cult of sodding Zildrog. In a one hour flashpoint you will go from not having a clue your Eternal Alliance is completely vulnerable to it being destroyed. With it only surviving what a month in game time as I can't believe Theron has been on the run for a year as it has been in actual time.

 

So unless they can pull of something amazing in that hour flashpoint, they may be better not having a story as those interested in such will feel cheated if the eternal alliance comes crashing down with little to no explanation and even less impact from the player. That is unless the story team are trying to out do The Last Jedi for people feeling utterly let down and would have preferred the story was never told.

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