Predictions for the new meta?

[Romeugues]

I’d gladly give up 20% of my survivability to get some real dps on my Lightning Sorc

I think every every sorc player would and I believe the Merc players who weren't rerollers terrible at other classes would have also preferred their DCDs be gutted instead of their damage.

[Elusive_Thing]

If you think some flat damage reduction buffs are going to do much for that spec I recommend you try playing deception in the time before 5.9. Between entropic field and dark embrace you can legitimately have 24% flat DR on top of your armor going more or less at all times and yet you still absolutely melt under focus. It's all about defensive cooldowns and sorcs still have little.

 

Those buffs also do absolutely nothing about how hard your damage gets shut down by tunnel in lightning.

This has baffled me as well. An unimpressive DR boost will hardly even be noticeable. Your Deception example is a good example too.

[TrixxieTriss]

I think every every sorc player would and I believe the Merc players who weren't rerollers terrible at other classes would have also preferred their DCDs be gutted instead of their damage.

 

Yep, It feels like Bioware is trying to make pvp a “safe place” where no one can get hurt and everyone has nerf bats and bubble machines.

 

Too much survivability all around and not enough dying.

[-Bob-]

Everybody wins at PVP!

[Romeugues]

Yep, It feels like Bioware is trying to make pvp a “safe place” where no one can get hurt and everyone has nerf bats and bubble machines.

 

Too much survivability all around and not enough dying.

There's still plenty of death with focus fire (though certain classes handle that a lot better than others) but over the past few expansions damage (especially burst, since they nerfed surge across the board) hasn't scaled with the health pools we have so the TTK is higher than it has been, which I dislike. There's classes with ***** dcds but no real glass cannons as there has been in past, like obviously Mercs.

[Kurj]

Yep, It feels like Bioware is trying to make pvp a “safe place” where no one can get hurt and everyone has nerf bats and bubble machines.

 

Too much survivability all around and not enough dying.

 

QFT. PVP newbies are more concerned with “not dying” than anything else, as are solo players who play for the story. Hence, the DCD meta continues.

[Lundorff]

75% yellow resist = 75% yellow damage reduction AND a lot of missed stuns, knockbacks, roots, and dot applications as well. The new RA is still unnecessarily strong but it is a mathematical downgrade from the old one.

 

Yes for sure, but is this wrong:

 

Now: 4 people open up on you with yellow damage, and while statistically speaking only 1 hit should go through, all 4 hits could theoretically go through. Yes? I definitely have been on the receiving end of a violent focus, and despite RA being up, I have lost a ton of damage quickly.

 

New version: 4 people open up on you with yellow damage, and all 4 goes through (e.g. not resisted) but you only get hit by 1/4 of each attack. Yes? So if people doesn't notice RA is up and all 4 attack with yellow damage, you are basically only taking the damage from 1 person for 6 second?

Edited April 8, 2018 by Lundorff

[yellow_]

Yes?

Yes current RA can have a lot of variance, mainly against burst (dot damage will be pretty consistent due to the large number of individual hits). But that is well worth all the resisted stuns, knockbacks, nets, and so on though.

[Schoock]

A lot of posters on this boards' opinion is colored by dunking on **** players in regs with vengeance AOE and never setting foot into either ranked format to see just how dismal jugg dps really is.

 

Two questions:

1) Do you think that, because a class is weak or weaker in a particular format (arenas, especially those of solo ranked), it means the class is trash overall?

2) If Jugg is as weak as you claim it is to be, why is it that, by the looks of it, it's (one of) the most played classes in non-ranked PvP (at least on DM)?

Edited April 8, 2018 by Schoock

[KendraP]

Two questions:

1) Do you think that, because a class is weak or weaker in a particular format (arenas, especially those of solo ranked), it means the class is trash overall?

2) If Jugg is as weak as you claim it is to be, why is it that, by the looks of it, it's (one of) the most played classes in non-ranked PvP at least on DM?

 

1. Not necessarily, it means others are better plain and simple.

 

2. I play guardians fundamentally because I'm an obi wan kenobi fanboy. Guardians are the single lightsaber melee combat class, and as a matter of personal opinion, I think will always have a devoted following. Sorcs are even bigger trash atm (guardians arent bad really, just thoroughly outclassed by maras) and they still have a loyal following because they are the epitome force using class. Theres literally a thread in the sorc forum named something about "mr sidious needs a buff" or similar.

[Schoock]

Sorcs are even bigger trash atm (guardians arent bad really, just thoroughly outclassed by maras) and they still have a loyal following because they are the epitome force using class. Theres literally a thread in the sorc forum named something about "mr sidious needs a buff" or similar.

 

Except there aren't 2-3 DPS Sorcs in about every gosh darn warzone group. Powertechs also have a pretty loyal follower base (those 3 people that still play it), yet warzones are, once again, not full of them.

 

guardians arent bad really, just thoroughly outclassed by maras

 

Is it possible that they are still favored over (or at least tied with) Marauders because they're an awful lot easier to play?

Edited April 8, 2018 by Schoock

[KendraP]

Except there aren't 2-3 DPS Sorcs in about every gosh darn warzone group. Powertechs also have a pretty loyal follower base (those 3 people that still play it), yet warzones are, once again, not full of them.

 

I dont see as many sorcs or PTs as guardians I admit. But juggies aren't nearly as bad off as sorcs or PTs as i admitted. I also think guardians and juggies have a more loyal fanbase thanks to obi wan and vader as archetypes.

Sidious/yoda and maul/idk and boba fett/clone troopers i just don't think have quite as cult like a following. I could be wrong though, especially on the boba fett point.

[KendraP]

Is it possible that they are still favored over (or at least tied with) Marauders because they're an awful lot easier to play?

 

For me personally. I am perfectly capable of learning mara, should I want to. I play guardians because i specifically did NOT want to duel wield. Im sure there are other people with different reasons but its a variable.

[yellow_]

Two questions:

1) Do you think that, because a class is weak or weaker in a particular format (arenas, especially those of solo ranked), it means the class is trash overall?

2) If Jugg is as weak as you claim it is to be, why is it that, by the looks of it, it's (one of) the most played classes in non-ranked PvP (at least on DM)?

1)There is definitely not perfect overlap (there can be intangible value in warzones like effectiveness at off-nodes or ball carrying) but there's also definitely more overlap than there isn't. Jugg dps are bottom of the barrel in both ranked formats and I frankly don't much, if any, intangible value they bring to warzones to make up for that. Jugg tanks are an exception.

 

2) Popularity + casual/uncoordinated warzone environment makes their issues less prominent

Edited April 9, 2018 by yellow_

[TrixxieTriss]

There's still plenty of death with focus fire (though certain classes handle that a lot better than others) but over the past few expansions damage (especially burst, since they nerfed surge across the board) hasn't scaled with the health pools we have so the TTK is higher than it has been, which I dislike. There's classes with ***** dcds but no real glass cannons as there has been in past, like obviously Mercs.

 

All burst may have scaled except Lightning Sorcs. They can be really hard to kill, but they do no damage so they become an easy kill as long as you have the time to chase them (which you shouldn’t)

There is no balance there at all. They are basically a tank that can’t mitigate damage for anyone but themselves. It nearly makes them useless in pvp except as guards or to annoy or run as decoys.

Edited April 9, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

QFT. PVP newbies are more concerned with “not dying” than anything else, as are solo players who play for the story. Hence, the DCD meta continues.

 

Yeah, I’ve lost count of how many times I see a node guard run off so they don’t die as I’m my way to back them up. Only to get there 1 sec to late to stop a cap. If they had just stayed, even if they’d died, I could have helped and more backup could have arrived to hold the node.

It is so absolutely frustrating when it happens. Surprisingly, the biggest culprits I see are stealth classes, especially Assassins. I watch them stealth out and run away and don’t come back to stop the cappers.

If you are guarding, you play till your dead if you are trying to hold a node solo. Even those extra 5 secs at the end of the match can be all the difference between a win and a loss.

[TrixxieTriss]

1. Not necessarily, it means others are better plain and simple.

 

2. I play guardians fundamentally because I'm an obi wan kenobi fanboy. Guardians are the single lightsaber melee combat class, and as a matter of personal opinion, I think will always have a devoted following. Sorcs are even bigger trash atm (guardians arent bad really, just thoroughly outclassed by maras) and they still have a loyal following because they are the epitome force using class. Theres literally a thread in the sorc forum named something about "mr sidious needs a buff" or similar.

 

I’ve been maining my Juggs and Guardians since Xmas.

In regs, Juggs can dominate Mara’s if played properly, especially as most Mara’s in regs are trash. Personally I think juggs are in a good position in regs (not so much ranked). I would gladly do without this new change in favour of some extra mobility so I can keep up with all the speed running classes (every class but Juggs has one these days). If we had more mobility (not Mara predation), I think they would be perfect.

 

I can’t really remember which, but I’m pretty sure Juggs got a small mobility nerf in 5.0. While everyone else got mobility buffs

[DavidAtkinson]

I’ve been maining my Juggs and Guardians since Xmas.

In regs, Juggs can dominate Mara’s if played properly, especially as most Mara’s in regs are trash. Personally I think juggs are in a good position in regs (not so much ranked). I would gladly do without this new change in favour of some extra mobility so I can keep up with all the speed running classes (every class but Juggs has one these days). If we had more mobility (not Mara predation), I think they would be perfect.

 

I can’t really remember which, but I’m pretty sure Juggs got a small mobility nerf in 5.0. While everyone else got mobility buffs

 

In arena it's always jugg frst.. for the sole reason that under focus they usually panic and start burning defenses.. and after they pretty much used all of them there is no escape UNLIKE oper , mara sin. Makes a lot of difference.

 

i am very curious how much more ED will heal them. If they get another full life they might be in a good position.

 

The difference between regs and arenas is that the fights take place in a much bigger space and Juggs don't get focused by 2 or 3 people all the time.

 

Also, juggs aren't that bad 1 vs1 even vs maras.

Edited April 9, 2018 by DavidAtkinson

[yellow_]

Personally I think juggs are in a good position in regs (not so much ranked)

Can you explain why? What intangibles do they have in regs that counteract their issues in the straight deathmatch of arenas? For example, sin tanks make for lackluster group ranked tanks in most setups at the moment but if ranked 8v8 came back you would see them often for node guarding again. But I don't see what special value jugg dps have in warzones.

Also, juggs aren't that bad 1 vs1 even vs maras.

Because their healing cooldowns are disproportionately useful in a 1v1. But in team fights they count for far less where marauder cooldowns that reduce or avoid incoming damage get much more value. If ranked 8v8 made a return the coordinated focus you expect in arenas now would return to warzones, where it is currently missing for the most part. And with the return of that focus to warzones you'd feel yourself melting around all the marauders just the way you do now in arenas. I am quite certain jugg dps would be a rare breed, at least among teams insisting on the most optimal possible comp to win. Edited April 9, 2018 by yellow_

[TrixxieTriss]

In arena it's always jugg frst.. for the sole reason that under focus they usually panic and start burning defenses.. and after they pretty much used all of them there is no escape UNLIKE oper , mara sin. Makes a lot of difference.

 

i am very curious how much more ED will heal them. If they get another full life they might be in a good position.

 

The difference between regs and arenas is that the fights take place in a much bigger space and Juggs don't get focused by 2 or 3 people all the time.

 

Also, juggs aren't that bad 1 vs1 even vs maras.

 

Yep, 100% agree with that.

 

This is my perspective from my experiences.

Juggs vs Mara’s in regs can be pretty even and comes down to player skill. I’ve only come across a few Mara’s that can really own me in regs. Most are terrible and the others are really close out comes as long as you are really careful with DCDs (and don’t have lag spikes). Juggs can stay alive longer and that gives them the advantage in a 1v1 Mara fight. It also greatly depends on the specs of both of them.

Any Mara vs Tank is one sided, the Mara’s should always win

Fury vs Rage is close, but the Jugg has the advantage if they don’t panic under the Mara’s onslaught.

Rage vs Carnage is interesting because it’s a stand up bashing match because the Mara needs to stay on target more than Fury, so gear can actually play a big part in this if the Mara has higher stats. Carnage has the advantage and it will go down to the wire or who has the better ping, which usually means I will lose (270-300ms) if we have similar gear and skill.

Because I’ve only been playing Rage this meta, I cant say how the other match ups would go.

[KendraP]

I’ve been maining my Juggs and Guardians since Xmas.

In regs, Juggs can dominate Mara’s if played properly, especially as most Mara’s in regs are trash. Personally I think juggs are in a good position in regs (not so much ranked). I would gladly do without this new change in favour of some extra mobility so I can keep up with all the speed running classes (every class but Juggs has one these days). If we had more mobility (not Mara predation), I think they would be perfect.

 

I can’t really remember which, but I’m pretty sure Juggs got a small mobility nerf in 5.0. While everyone else got mobility buffs

 

Comparing to someone who sucks is sort of pointless. Yeah any decent player can roflstomp a *******

 

1v1 sure, the self heal is inevitably more useful. I really dont care about 1v1 environments. On a team, a mara is inevitably in a better position. The DR based DCDs are strictly superior to the self heal under even the slightest pressure. And believe me, i spend a lot of time under pressure.

 

I feel we are the low mobility class BY DESIGN. We are the front line warriors. Let the maras and sins zip around stabbing things in the back. We go toe to toe with the enemy and refuse to give ground.

[TrixxieTriss]

Can you explain why? What intangibles do they have in regs that counteract their issues in the straight deathmatch of arenas? For example, sin tanks make for lackluster group ranked tanks in most setups at the moment but if ranked 8v8 came back you would see them often for node guarding again. But I don't see what special value jugg dps have in warzones.

Because their healing cooldowns are disproportionately useful in a 1v1. But in team fights they count for far less where marauder cooldowns that reduce or avoid incoming damage get much more value. If ranked 8v8 made a return the coordinated focus you expect in arenas now would return to warzones, where it is currently missing for the most part. And with the return of that focus to warzones you'd feel yourself melting around all the marauders just the way you do now in arenas. I am quite certain jugg dps would be a rare breed, at least among teams insisting on the most optimal possible comp to win.

 

I disagree because DPS Juggs can put a lot of pressure on healers. I know Mara’s do too, and I know if you get focused you will die, but it’s the same on any class if you get focused. Also 8 man is more forgiving and you don’t need to run FOTM combos.

Also remember there are different types of maps, it’s not a one size fits all and Juggs have a few tricks up their sleaves in Hutt Ball and Void Star. I’m not saying Mara’s don’t have their own, but that’s the good thing about objective pvp, all specs and classes bring something different to the table and can be completely viable.

I’ll concede that outright battle maps like Nova would be more difficult for Juggs, they can be at the moment in regs if you don’t use your brains vs brawn.

Honestly, it’s all theoretical because strategy and tactics would change a lot. I could be completely wrong, completely right or somewhere in between. We won’t know unless it happens. Which I doubt it will because Bioware hardly ever do anything we want or ask for.

 

The only other thing I would add is I’m not a fan of going back to the old 8v8 ranked system. I think it would be a major failure.

I am in favour of a different system that acts just like the reg queue does and limits the size of premades. But I would like to see those premades limited in size to two man ones and to add cross faction into the mixed for 8v8 Ranked. That would be much more fun and not dominated by a select few teams.

[TrixxieTriss]

Comparing to someone who sucks is sort of pointless. Yeah any decent player can roflstomp a *******

 

1v1 sure, the self heal is inevitably more useful. I really dont care about 1v1 environments. On a team, a mara is inevitably in a better position. The DR based DCDs are strictly superior to the self heal under even the slightest pressure. And believe me, i spend a lot of time under pressure.

 

I feel we are the low mobility class BY DESIGN. We are the front line warriors. Let the maras and sins zip around stabbing things in the back. We go toe to toe with the enemy and refuse to give ground.

 

I don’t disagree. But even stupid PTs can run circles around you because of Hydrolic override and they are supposed to be stand up front line melee too.

Juggs are the least mobile in the game and not just a little, by a lot.

You can’t go toe to toe if everyone runs away or can stay out of your reach long enough.

I don’t mind being the least mobile, but at least scale it up when every other class gets more speed added and more mez defence. Instead, Bioware nerfed the tiny little bit of extra mobility we had before 5.0 and boosted every other class.

We dont need a zippy speed ability or massive boost, but just something small.

Edited April 9, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Lundorff]

You can not compare ranked with regs. Period.

 

In ranked the jugg often gets focused first because there are no escape (nor should there be for my taste, but that is a slightly different conversation). In regs you have much larger map and a team and you often have healer(s) and tank(s) that will keep you alive.

 

The only setup where dps juggs are mildly viable in ranked, is in vengeance spec and combined with a pt tank + 2 x eng. snipers. That would be a aoe, taunt, dot hellhole for the opposing team.

[Glocko]

If it comes down to 1 vs 1 and it is jugg vs X the only match up the jugg should win is against a PT. Now if the fight took place in a 4x4 room the jugg would fair better but with no self heal capability, lack of mobility, and lack of comparable DCDs a jugg is just not made for it. If your a Jugg and you are thinking Not me I have killed plenty of other Classes...Got news for you those players were trash......