New Conquest System: First Impressions

[RayJClarke]

Just to add my voice to the choir in saying that these new changes are terrible. Having completed the conquest objectives once on my legacy I have no inspiration, motivation or desire to repeat anything on my other characters as I usually would, I doubt I would even be able to force my way to completing enough objectives with what is left to do for the week thanks to the once per legacy lock outs.

 

The changes to crafting are also a bore, grinding out a mountain worth of materials for what could have been made much more simply pre patch, nope this isn`t for me.

 

Please fix the mess you`ve made with your game.

[DarthSpuds]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

An important point to consider is this: what you (Bioware) want, what you intend, what your thoughts are has taken this game from 200+ Servers to just a handful. Maybe, just maybe, it's time you stopped listening to you, and started listening to us. Because if the parlous state of this update is anything to go by we care about this game, and understand it far more than any of you do.

 

All The Best

Edited March 22, 2018 by DarthSpuds

[Vehoc]

Here are my two cents.

 

Conquest points awarded per single activity must be revisited, there are too many activities that aren't simply worth the time to complete, compared with points earned. Warzones, GSFs and more probably.

 

Conquest activities must be "reorganized". First some stuff must be included again, daily FP, GSF and warzone dailies and weeklies. This is only a first list, maybe the team should look at all the activities and organize them to be included.

 

Speaking of Operations I think that the content shouldn't be limited at one per Legacy, on daily basis, but the conquest points should be awarded only for completing the whole operation not for only killing the last boss. Acceptable would be, in my opinion, to scale the conquest points rewards on bosses killed eventually, but we don't need the one per legacy cap.

 

Speaking about the different guild sizes and rewards I think that the process is good, but it miss two points. First one is the rewards. If you don't consider the title, conquest isn't appealing. Boost the rewards a bit, maybe a grand chance cube for each toon capped for the guilds that enter the leaderboard. Or other stuff, maybe a single cartel pack of the current ones, a bunch of cartel coins maybe too. Just to give to the players something interesting to play for. 50k credits is the reward you get from 3 heroics, without even bothering with the bonus, the green-blue-purple scraps doesn't have any value, since the nerf of the crafting in conquests (nerf needed in my opinion) and that they will not grant tier 10 materials.

Second and last one is a more complex and in depth change. Small-Medium-Large planets should remain as designed, but there is a needed change for how conquest points will be totalized. A small planet conquest should sum only the points of the top 25 (50? other value?) toons, regardless on how many toons in the guild where capped. A medium planet should sum the top 50 (75? other value?) toons and a large one every toon, like it is now. With a system like this one the large guilds will not invade the small or medium planets or if they do the small and medium guild will have a chance to compete without being simply overrun by the force of brute numbers.

[OneHit]

I don't understand either why we need a different reset time either. We already have all of Monday down. And now you're screwing over anyone who plays in the AM server time. You guys are creating dead zones all over this game. No reason to log on before 2 on Tuesday. None of the stuff you do counts. Who's bright idea is this?

[GordoKhan]

Follow up impressions:

 

GSF , when it pops is actually faster now. Instead of playing through the entire match for some cq points, people now just drop as soon as they think they are on the losing side, as they get no cq points for losing. PVP has more folks dropping too for the same reason.

 

Not sure why but repeatable missions for conquest seem to reset during the day, or so it seems . Resets kills for rampage missions, nothing like having 100 kills on Ilum and come back to see 0 later in the day. Also noticed some items seem to reset. Had invasion force reset, and then half way through crafting it showed as being complete.

 

Crafting, ***? Why take all the lower level schems? Now lower level toons can't really do conquest.

[Hautamacky]

You can leave the Guilds Ui for the personal change please.

In the case of the personal, you could mark it in color if you have completed it or it will be out of the list. You can also take the old conquest UI only that you grab the explanation of the conquest target to the right. You can see how many points you get with fortress bonus is good

 

You can leave out the Invasive bonus that does not have to be.

 

That with the random the planet is good at the construction conquest you can do so that the 10 warp points bring that would bring more mats and fewer points so that in guilds the many chars with 50's companions which makes hard good points.

 

Even for small guilds, it may be good if there are more big quests with those who are going to be big on a planet with great rewards as it is easier than getting the minimum score in the moment that there is alliance with the Big Guilds and agree on where it goes. The many have already all successes of conquest.

 

The one with the war supplies is one change that they consume so many mats different degrees not only big guilds **** also that some small guilds have many chars with 50's fellows.

 

What you can change:

 

-Bring again points for FPS purely the Finder makes over if you get the reward for the first time over Finder goes.

 

-Bring for PVP RANGED and GSF made games or if you made the daily points and that gives the Weekly again points.

 

-The H quests for conquest to a maximum of 45 in a day bring so you can not indefinitely with h quests make points to curb that.

 

- With the points for the OP finder that only exists for one char is not so good that also small guilds run with others some Ops over finder as before or on 5 chars per legacy.

 

- The war supplies would be better if you made it similar to the beginning of the conquest making 2 kinds of war supplies. For one you need mats of 2 to 5 degrees for the other 6 to 9 degrees.

 

- When building conquest with invasion force the points are given for only 500 set or 5 built points.

 

How the dots could be for my changes here:

 

-FPS Finder 1000

-Op Finder 2000

-FPS Weekly 1000

-aufstand weekly 1000

-PvP Ranged and GSF daily 1000

-PvP Ranged and GSF Pro game 500

-PvP Ranged and GSF Weekly 2000

-H Quest 500 or 750

- Riot over Finder 500

the points are without fortress bonus.

 

You also wanted to bring more dailys in as it would be if you linked it to the system where we get more CXP for certain areas because you could give more points to the points anyway.

 

With the daily at the events, you can revive all those who have a bit of the call already full

 

The guards or commanders I would again set at one time because some guilds do that together on a day in the weeks.

 

 

 

The text would be translated with the google translater because you ignored the different language forums.

[PorsaLindahl]

An important point to consider is this: what you (Bioware) want, what you intend, what your thoughts are has taken this game from 200+ Servers to just a handful. Maybe, just maybe, it's time you stopped listening to you, and started listening to us. Because if the parlous state of this update is anything to go by we care about this game, and understand it far more than any of you do.

 

All The Best

 

Going to quote myself from a different thread:

 

/snip... I found an article that James Ohlen did last May on gamesindustry.biz. Interesting read. I wonder what his take on this is. Is he even still around? If so, and if he had any part in this, then what he says in that article conflicts with so many things BW has done with this game. He talks about "Quality in the Product" and "Quality in the Workplace."

 

But this is one of the main things that caught my eye:

 

"The designer's job is not to ensure that their own ideas make it into the game, Ohlen said, but that only the best ideas do, regardless of their source."

 

...from their track record, they are seriously lacking in that department.

 

This whole conquest change is like a soup sandwich. If you don't understand what that means, google it and check urban dictionary.

Edited March 22, 2018 by PorsaLindahl

[Jhinrae]

REWARD GROUP ACTIVITY - Even for the people that aren't playing for Conquest Points. Do not make warzone rewards just based off of wins, this discourages the people that aren't winning from bothering to queue up. Have the daily Flashpoints rewarded again. Again, this keeps people queing up and allowing for more grouping activities. I am not a starfighter player, but having the rewards being so minimal for something already not that popular.. you're hurting it even more. Overall impression of the past couple days has been "Meh, why should I bother". Conquest used to help encourage activities, now.. not so much.

 

The "higher rewards" are boring. People do not need a million ship harvestable ship decos. Make it something more relevant like the Charged Matters for new augments.

[chaharbagh]

Crafting War Supplies got messed up.

[kurutak]

Hey folks,

 

Keep the feedback coming! Seeing your thoughts on the revamp is very helpful to the team. My plan is that tomorrow I want to get the following information into this thread: a breakdown of our intention around the Conquest revamp and a list of the feedback points that all of you have raised. This will allow you to see our thoughts on Conquests and then to highlight the feedback you have stated that we are actively reviewing internally.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

I've played off and on since launch, and this is my first in probably ever. I felt that I was compelled to finally write something. I was at home sick, so I was able to play literally, all day on one of the US servers. During the day, I was able to win a ton of warzones, and GSF, but ranked PVP only fired off once all day. I noticed the points were not adding correctly here as I should have 5k points alone from the wins. I was sitting in ops queue all day with no hit. Flashpoints would fire, but as normal, folks would leave the first time they died and would give up. I did some crafting, and gave up since apparently I need to have every character or tons of credits to participate now as the new requirements are astronomical. I'm in a small guild, and we can only field ops during the evening every once in a while, today was not that time. End result: 1204 conquest points a complete joke.

 

I make a new character since now I need additional crafting skills that I haven't used previously to help with the new crafting requirements. Once the toon is created, I swap to another just to double check what skills I already have, suddenly, I'm awarded with killing Gravak'k and Surgok'k on a low level toon, but oh, look, it appears to be legacy locked, but I wouldn't know for sure, as there's no tool tips or explanations on the new menu.. Just logging in result: 6,192 points.

 

The evening came, and we just couldn't get an ops going and flashpoints were still a random jumble of folks not knowing how to run FP's or were confused by how they got there. So for the larger point values, I need to participate in what I've never been able to successfully accomplish through random queues, but our monthly guild get together, and only on specific toons.

 

The few points given and the way the system is currently designed feels that this is specifically now designed for larger entities. While we typically came in the top 10 guilds for conquests, I see now that we don't stand a chance. This, coupled with clearly some bugs (no tool tips, random conquest completions, and points not being distributed correctly) could be working as intended, but in either case, shut off a part of the game I used to participate in. Now that missions are being limited to legacy, it appears that I can't complete operations if this week if I ever actually get a successful team together to award points on my 70's because of the low level toon. So, why queue for ops at this point? Seems to further force the empty queuing system that we have today.

 

This seems to be forcing two things: Closing up small guilds forcing the players to join larger if you want to continue to participate in conquest, and spending all the playing time grinding out small point value items (if they actually work in the future) instead of enjoying the rest of the game.

 

I'll not only pass, but perhaps the long queue times for teams that mostly result in failed FP's and Ops, the dead open PVP fields, the consolidated servers where I see only ~5 people on planets outside of the starter zones means I should probably rethink coming back.

[Kurj]

I’ve been holding back comment, but here are my observations so far:

 

1. The changes are designed to make Conquest an account-centric activity, rather than an alt-centric activity. I believed this is intended to lower the entry barrier for new players.

 

2. Rewarding “wins” is probably intended to address PVPer complaints that PVE players simply play to complete their weekly, without making efforts to win.

 

3. Nerfing crafting is also intended to level the playing field. See 1.

 

I think all of the changes boil down to those goals. I can’t tell whether the changes will be good or bad in the long run, because we haven’t even finished one conquest yet. But I think that is what they intended to do.

[Khaleg]

Crafting War Supplies got messed up.

 

Yeah, so much. It's still fair because anyone has to deal with it but it's a bit too much to combine the mats from like 3 recipes into one recipe (except I heard Bio chemistry is still the same but only hearsay for me so I'm not sure). This is over the top I think.

[DarthSpuds]

I’ve been holding back comment, but here are my observations so far:

 

1. The changes are designed to make Conquest an account-centric activity, rather than an alt-centric activity. I believed this is intended to lower the entry barrier for new players.

 

2. Rewarding “wins” is probably intended to address PVPer complaints that PVE players simply play to complete their weekly, without making efforts to win.

 

3. Nerfing crafting is also intended to level the playing field. See 1.

 

I think all of the changes boil down to those goals. I can’t tell whether the changes will be good or bad in the long run, because we haven’t even finished one conquest yet. But I think that is what they intended to do.

 

Limiting activitity to account raises the barrier for new players.

So do the changes to crafting.

 

I understand what they said they were hoping to achieve, what they implemented achieves the EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

All The Best

[ResidentJason]

My initial impression is not good, it now seems a lot harder to get the personal goal. Unless you log in every day.

Also I completed the Weekly PVP, FP and Uprising quests and got no conquest points. PVP only counts if you win, which means that in every match I played, the moment one team looked like they would lose, people started dropping out. In essence there is no reason to see the match through to the end and win.

[chaharbagh]

Yeah, so much. It's still fair because anyone has to deal with it but it's a bit too much to combine the mats from like 3 recipes into one recipe (except I heard Bio chemistry is still the same but only hearsay for me so I'm not sure). This is over the top I think.

 

Biochem remains untouched for now.

[MacCleoud]

Biochem remains untouched for now.

 

My biochem is weird. The only one that remained untouched was the one for the Grade 6/7 materials. The one for 8/9 is now 3/4/5/8/9 or some weird stuff like that. I will have to look later.

[JattaGin]

2. Rewarding “wins” is probably intended to address PVPer complaints that PVE players simply play to complete their weekly, without making efforts to win.

 

If so, this decision was made by someone who has never ever PvP'd in this game.

 

Biochem remains untouched for now.

 

That's obviously a bug. It must be. If not, everyone will change to biochem.

[Shuragel]

Add another account to the list of unsubscribing conquest goers. I did it for fun and the challenge. We were never a big guild, we couldn't possibly hit top 10. But we could get a fair number of points with personal guild bests as a landmark. After this change, I'm currently at a third of the points I'd normally accumulate by this point, and it is costing me more coin/time to boot. No more. My account lasts another 54 days and then no more yearly subscription from this one.

[peter_plankskull]

That's obviously a bug. It must be. If not, everyone will change to biochem.

 

Pretty sure most of the player base is already biochem as it is, given most other crew skills are all but useless besides the augments.

[Lhancelot]

2. Rewarding “wins” is probably intended to address PVPer complaints that PVE players simply play to complete their weekly, without making efforts to win.

 

This is probably exactly why they made this change. ^

 

Seeing that their change doesn't fix this issue as now players simply duck out of losses since there is no reward to be had, they will roll back this change, right?

 

My biggest issue has always been the lack of communication on this games behalf as well as their total inability to acknowledge mistakes they make when they patch stuff in that clearly is not for the betterment of the game.

 

They NEVER back track, and will simply roll with the pile of dung packing it with future patches no matter how dumb or ill-conceived the change is.

 

This is either out of total ignorance, or having a supreme ego refusing to believe they make any mistakes. Couple this behavior with a lack of communication this only frustrates people more which is why so many have quit swtor over the years.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Lhancelot

[AnisaBadgett]

Wow, I just got a warning for one of my previous posts. I used no foul language, like I've seen here. I didn't call anyone any names, like I've seen here. It wasn't even all that angry in tone, I was defending the 500 or so other people in this thread against the 2 people who have come on here and called the rest of us "whiners". I was told that it "wasn't constructive". I have reread my statement several times and have failed to find anything that is any more offensive than nearly ANY other post in this thread.

 

Okay, here's constructive. I have 3 things that I enjoy about SWTOR.

1. Conquest for the goals and the help it provides my guild.

2. My guild, which I enjoy, as I've become close friends with several of the members.

3. The Stories, I love the stories.

 

You've ruined conquest. You've taken much of the fun out of it and turned it into a grind that, at least for me, isn't worth the pitiful reward at the end. Unless you fix it, all I have is finishing up my stories and my guild. Though I love my guild, it won't be enough to keep me here once I'm done with the stories and then I and my sons subs will go back to World of Warcraft.

 

Sending me a warning about my comment, when it wasn't nearly as inflamatory as the one I was responding to, doesn't help improve my opinion. My DEEP love for SWTOR and the people that work on it has been sorely tested the past couple of days.

 

I've been there with you, friend. Makes me wonder if there's an Influencer Program in the forums, too.

[ThomasStarWars]

This is probably exactly why they made this change. ^

 

Seeing that their change doesn't fix this issue as now players simply duck out of losses since there is no reward to be had, they will roll back this change, right?

 

My biggest issue has always been the lack of communication on this games behalf as well as their total inability to acknowledge mistakes they make when they patch stuff in that clearly is not for the betterment of the game.

 

They NEVER back track, and will simply roll with the pile of dung packing it with future patches no matter how dumb or ill-conceived the change is.

 

This is either out of total ignorance, or having a supreme ego refusing to believe they make any mistakes. Couple this behavior with a lack of communication this only frustrates people more which is why so many have quit swtor over the years.

 

but but arcann romance

[TUXs]

I've been there with you, friend. Makes me wonder if there's an Influencer Program in the forums, too.

There has always been a double standard here...it's disgusting.

[MacCleoud]

Add another account to the list of unsubscribing conquest goers. I did it for fun and the challenge. We were never a big guild, we couldn't possibly hit top 10. But we could get a fair number of points with personal guild bests as a landmark. After this change, I'm currently at a third of the points I'd normally accumulate by this point, and it is costing me more coin/time to boot. No more. My account lasts another 54 days and then no more yearly subscription from this one.

 

Part of this change was to slow things down a bit, but they seem to have brought them to a crawl. I usually make my personal goals on 6 to 7 toons a week mostly through the daily FP and getting some WZ's in (And yes... i do play to win because I would much rather play two games than 4). I would craft 1 invasion kit, and then once that got done, craft 1 of the other pieces to restock.

 

This week, I am hoping to hit 3. I have not given up on figuring out how to do things to get more than three toons to the personal goal, but my game play is going to drastically change to do that. That is what I think is most upsetting to me. I knew how to get to 4-5k a day fairly quickly a couple days a week, and then use the weekends to get my weeklies done to hit my 20k. Now.....since I don't do ops.... it is going to be a lot harder without the weeklies being in there.

[PennyAnn]

It will be truly interesting to see what happens when only 2 or 3 guilds get any rewards at all on ANY of the planets (high/medium/low) because even those in the top 10 aren't hitting the minimum yield for any of them. You will actually be rewarding LESS players/guilds than you were before 5.8 for bothering to do conquest.

 

We are at the halfway point today, and on many servers, one or two guilds only have met the "yield", no matter what size. Before that, anyone in the top 10 would be rewarded... now many of them will get nothing at all.

 

That is not moving in the right direction.

 

#1 - Lower the required amount of points on all planet yields. A small guild required to have 23 individual characters reach goal is not realistic to the size of most of the small guilds left in your game at this point in time.

 

#2 - Make it so that all planets available in a given week have all 3 yields available. Let guilds go after any planet they want and earn 460k points to earn rewards. Keep the top 10 and allow first place on each planet to be rewarded with the title. You will not really have to change up the rewards this way, and if a guild earns more points, regardless of the planet they are on, they get better rewards automatically just by hitting the minimum.

 

#3 - Put back all of the repeatable objectives for GSF, PvP, Flashpoints, etc. Make it easier for alts to get conquest personal goals. You made the alt mistake with Galactic Command, and you've repeated it here. Learn the lesson and let us play the alts that you have long encouraged us to make.

 

#4 - Fix the UI to be more user friendly. Add a toggle so that we can view objectives as a grid of symbols, the way the old UI used to be, or as a scrolling list the way the new UI is now. Absolute must: Add tool tips, and use the description box for each objective to actually describe each one fully: Daily/Repeatable/Per Character/Per Legacy/Etc., Complete/Not Complete (this is really not clear enough at a glance), What is required to complete the objective, more description to new objectives ("donate war supplies", for example).

 

#5 - With this update you have effectively locked out anyone under level 50 and crafters under about level 500 or 550. That honestly is the reverse of how you wanted to handle it. More players of ALL levels should be able to participate in conquest and reach their personal goal in a reasonable amount of time. It should not take all week of doing nothing but conquest to reach goal, and you should be able to do it on multiple characters of all levels.

 

You were aiming to be inclusive, especially of small guilds, and your implementation did the exact opposite.