DWho Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Personally, I think PUGing raids in MMOs sucks in general. Here the heart of the story, If you can't be bothered to get together your own group then you need to deal with what you get. As a guild group, if someone is causing trouble they get booted. If you don't like what they are doing you leave. What is wrong is to come to the forums and complain about it. You knew when you decided to play the "group content" solo, there was a good chance of getting grouped with people who don't share your experience or desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sareeph Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Lot's of back and forth with the Op being rude and the guild raiders lying/being dishonest but what do we really see in this threads first post. Sitting on fleet today someone was spamming "LF 1 tank TFB guild run". I missed TFB in GF yesterday so I figured I'd join. It was a guild run so it should go pretty smoothly. I joined the group and we went in. There was one other non-guild DPS in the group. The first boss went down fine, the DPS seemed a little slow but not too bad. When we got to the second boss, the group leader did a ready check, everyone hit ready, and then that's when all hell broke loose. I took Kelsara and immediately realized something was wrong. Two DPS leapt with me and continued to bang on her even after I told them numerous times to attack Heirad. Somehow, Heirad finally died and then one guild member died to doom and then another. We ended up wiping so I asked if anyone hadn't done this before and got zero replies. Then I looked at everyone's achievements. Not a single one of the six guild members had ever done the op before. I then asked about that and finally the leader spoke up asking (more like assuming) if I would explain the op to them. Needless to say, I quit the group immediately.Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind explaining ops to people and even have a text file on my desktop with instructions written so I can just copy / paste them into chat but there is no way I'm going to explain an entire op to a guild group where not a single person even bothered to look it up and just assumed someone would teach them the op. The first boss went down fine with the dps being a little slow. Cool, wouldn't be the first time any of us have seen that. So the question of if anyone had/hadn't done the op was asked after a wipe. I have been in groups where people "asked" if someone knew what they were doing after a wipe and the colorful way in which the question was posed would absolutely garner zero reply from me if directed my way. I have no idea in what manner it was posed so reserve judgement. Wait a second, none had ever done the operation before and the Op missed the telltale achievements scrolling down their chat window from the first boss? Kind of strange that a vet who has instructions for newb's in a text file for easy pasting would miss that. So the leader "assumed" that the Op would explain the op to the group. Sounds like an assumption in and of itself to me. Immediately quit and then found their way to the forums to complain? Why come here to complain, justification? Another assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) Good post, and another example that happened to me today. So I was joining a random group for an operation, I was the tank again. The other tank was probably not even tank spec but that didn't matter. So after explaining the basics for the first boss he does the complete opposite and keeps taunting the boss into the group. It's one where the tanks have to stay together, and he did not do that. So I was once more not fighting the boss, I was fighting the boss AND the off-tank. After wiping one other that was trying to explain the fight as well left stating he didn't have time for that, at that time I became the official group leader We got a replacement quickly, tried to explain again to the would be tank, and again he did not listen. After that wipe the one that joined last said he could off tank it, but everyone was already giving up. It was frustrating, so I tried joining another group and one was in need of a tank, so when i joined I asked in a friendly manner if everyone was at least a little known with the operation, that I was just hoping so we could talk people through bosses if needed. Most remained silent, but the ops leader went on how the off-tank and myself were the only unknown, the others were all guildies. Guess what, we had damage dealers running through the tanks, and I just know if there was any of those taunt happy ones it would have been the same story all over again. The way people are acting makes me consider dropping the tanks (and maybe healers while we're at it). It makes people want to play a mute damage dealer that doesn't get the tactics. But then you have the opposite scenarios where people are willing to listen, respond and just have a good time. Sadly the bad is outweighing the good right now. Tactics and strategy players are becoming rarer in this game because you don’t need any in solo lvling content, heroics or even most flash points. Bioware has dumbed down the game and made it so super easy that people have zero idea of their class abilities or roles. You can literally lvl a Sorc from 10 to 70 using no other ability but force storm. Even my less than skilled wife complains about how easy it is now. For her to say it’s too easy says a lot to me ( sorry babe 😘 ). Bioware has bred players to be dumb sheep who only care about dps numbers and killing stuff with zero effort (its lazy play). So when they join any end game content, the learning curve is vertical and too hard for most to grasp the basics. Until I read this thread and particularly this post, I thought this was only a problem in pvp. All I see in pvp now are sheep worried more about their dps numbers than winning the game. Most are even bad at that and can’t dps through a wet paper bag. They run in big gank groups because its the only way they can kill anything. If they don’t have 4v1 advantage, a lot of them won’t even engage someone. They wait around until they have the numbers and then chase 1 person all over the map trying to kill them. It’s really sad to watch when half to three quarters of your team is running in a gank squad all over the map, all match, trying to kill 1-2 people. Obviously they are hoping their combined dps will make up for their poor skill to kill someone. They don’t just do that, which is bad enough. They will run off and leave the node unguarded to play follow the leader as soon as that lead leaves. I’ve even seen them all run off while enemies are still there because the leader left or died and they don’t want to die, leaving me to defend the node against 1-2 attackers. The quality is now so bad in pvp, that you just need to understand tactics and strategy and be a competent player and know your own class abilities (not even those against you) and you can feel like a pvp god. You can often carry the team if the other one is as bad as yours (which is a lot) I see the sheep run all match ganking people, while I solo nodes against 2-3 players and then guard while the enemy respawns try to take it back all match. While my 7 are chasing or engaging 2 people, I’m up to my eye balls in half the enemy team and still my team’s gank squad members do half the dps I do and take half the damage. It doesn’t even matter what class I’m on because they are just so bad. I’ve even out healed the healer on my Jugg using enraged defence. The problem with people not understanding, not wanting to understand or even know they need to understand tactics to play end game is because of Biowares policy over the last 3 years of catering to the lowest denominator of player skills and mentality. They are constantly lowering the skill requirement to play the game. I get that it needs to be playable for people who aren’t raiders or pvpers, but making it so you can’t even get half a rotation off or only need to use one ability to lvl is ridiculous. Bioware should be aspiring to help improve players skills, not catering to the lowest skilled people by making everything constantly easier and essentially everyone dumber. It’s ruins the quality of end game pvp and it seems it is affecting Operations too. Edited March 12, 2018 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I learned English, Dutch, and German together. Didn't speak until I was three until I moved to where only one language was spoken. I speak mostly English now. Ok, fair enough, it’s possible that’s why you and I get our wires crossed. Try not taking everything literal. It’s not always what people mean when using an narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padabiene Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Wait a second, none had ever done the operation before and the Op missed the telltale achievements scrolling down their chat window from the first boss? Kind of strange that a vet who has instructions for newb's in a text file for easy pasting would miss that. You see achievement notifications only for yourself and guildmembers. Not for random people. And if you read the post you quoted they didn't only ask because of the wipe but because people clearly didn't follow the mechanics. You can wing the first boss without knowing what you're doing, but not the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Serious question for those who have done group content. How many times has someone actually been yelled at for messing up or not knowing what to do if they inform everyone right at the start that they are new? I have done a huge amount of pug ops (100's easily), and not once have I seen someone who straight up admitted not knowing what to do get yelled at. If you don't know what to do, and wipe the group, sure I've seen that. But never someone who admitted ahead of time they were new. Not once. I have seen players kicked from HM Ops (KP or EV) for not knowing it, but that's a slightly different story, and I have NEVER criticized anyone for not knowing something...usually, the player who's new gets more attention than anyone else...I've seen people bend over backwards to explain fights and help them understand what we're doing and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I learned English, Dutch, and German together. Didn't speak until I was three until I moved to where only one language was spoken. I speak mostly English now. Damn...I speak Midwest American and Narcos Spanish...I'm impressed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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