No to Arcann Romance Give us Real Content!

[MikeCobalt]

Arcann tried to murder his own father in a rage but Thexan stopped him so in an *Impulse still fueled by that same murderous rage Arcann attacked and killed Thexan for stopping him from murdering his Father (Valkorian).

Later Arcann instructs a Kidnapped prisoner (The Outlander, You) that only wants freedom to Kill his father then orders you encased in carbonite (Prisoner). The Emperor wanted this all along; He's now free of Valkorians body. The one with the potential to Defeat Arcann is no more then an arms reach away; Now the Emperor takes your mind.

 

The Eternal Emperor is dead however Arcann continues the Fleets orders set by Valkorian/Emperor eliminating trillions of lives. Arcann orders 5 planets bombarded as revenge (Not Military reasons)for the Outlanders success Massive death tolls and starvation ensues as Arcann strains every system of resources. Arcann stated he would again encase you in carbonite until he could find a way to excise Valkorian from your mind; again imprisonment daddy issues revenge. Vaylin murders her and Arcanns own people on whims and often; Arcann did nothing to stop this. Also the slaves deaths in the arena for which Bowdaar sought to stop Arcann allowed. At the End of the story Arcann and Vaylin *Did help you defeat Valkorian however this is what Arcann and Vaylin wanted all along (Does this count as Redemption to do what they wanted all along?)

[LordFell]

All of this thread show just how poorly thought out the writing of FEET was. Redemption should never have meant exoneration or excusing acts. It was poor writing.

I have always felt that the problem with Arcann, and the KOTxx expansions in general, was poor writing. Especially if you include aspects such as story-boarding as writing -the bizarre order companions were returned, horrible missed opportunities to return companions, and making exactly the WRONG choices matter...

 

In any case. Arcann.

...if he were better written, either people would better understand, in a visceral way, why an Arcann Romance Option is completely repulsive. Or, alternatively, those of us who are so adamant that an Arcann Romance was a ridiculous and repulsive waste of SWTOR resources would feel a little less certain of this.

[MikeCobalt]

I really don't see any "Happy Ending" possible here. Lives or Dies both at this *Late point in that story will upset many. Giving Arcann a "Romance/Kill" option would be *Sorta riding the fence and gives each player the outcome they want...kinda. If he Dies as per justice the Galaxies inhabitants are vindicated but leaves Senya in Severe Despair. If Arcann Lives He's an abomination, bane of everything living in the galaxy. Now with this Arcann Romance twist whether he's dead or alive for some, BW must provide more and more and yet more Dialog for this Niche L.I. most likely at the reduction of original L.I.'s and other B.W. projects; Or.. he could just stand there collecting dust with canned responses. Good Job Decision makers for creating this dilemma. That Zakuul story is *Over*, lets move on.

[Keta]

I really don't see any "Happy Ending" possible here.

 

Unfortunately I have to agree with this. Barring major retcon on this story it's a morass that has no way out. Perhaps (just perhaps) the best way forward after KOTFE would have been to press forward with the 3 year arc. We'd just be finishing now. That's the most wild speculation though of course as I have no clue what the full story would have been. I just wonder if the shortening forced some odd endings is all.

 

As for a retcon, that might work but runs serious risk as well.

 

In the meantime while waiting on a retcon or something new, I started playing "Kingdom Come: Deliverance" yesterday. No Sith. No lightsabers. No space ships. It seems odd. On the bright side it's literally the first first person pov I've been able to play at all in years that hasn't made me physically ill. For the most part SWTOR never did that.

[CrazyCT]

As for a retcon, that might work but runs serious risk as well.

 

{Update 6.0 - it was all a dream as a side effect from the carbonite poisoning. You wake up 50 years later to find out everyone you knew has died, and the records have been erased in the ensuing war, so there's no need to tie in the story and no need to bring back the companions. Fresh start.}

 

sidenote - carbonite freezing a prisoner (as with the plotline of Demolition Man) - what good does it serve? They don't actually serve any time in prison (from their point of view), they just wake up 50 years later in the same state of mind they went in. And the cost of running a facility to freeze/store them? At what point does that become the best option?

[IoNonSoEVero]

 

sidenote - carbonite freezing a prisoner (as with the plotline of Demolition Man) - what good does it serve? They don't actually serve any time in prison (from their point of view), they just wake up 50 years later in the same state of mind they went in. And the cost of running a facility to freeze/store them? At what point does that become the best option?

 

Carbonite freezing seems to deal a lot of damage to some patients so they're not necessarily in the same state (there's a side quest on Hutta where the person wakes up from carbonite and can't see; and some of the Outlanders also comment they are seeing double or triple).

 

The Republic seems to love throwing people in stasis and carbonite (Belsavis) and I think for them it's a way to try to keep the high moral ground - they can claim they don't kill people; they just freeze them forever.

 

But mostly it seems to be, IMHO, a way to stroke one's ego. You not only want to take someone down but you want to put them on your wall as a sick trophy to show everyone that you defeated them. Like those hunters that put animals' heads on their walls. That seems to be what it is with the carbonite slabs displayed in the Hutt palaces and a few of the Imperial and Zakuulan buildings. In Return of the Jedi that's pretty much what Jabba's doing with Han Solo's carbonite block.

 

Arcann has the Outlander in a vault for his "prized possessions" so it's implied he's keeping the Outlander with the same intention (as well as the other numerous victims you see in his vault...not all of them had Valkorion's spirit, eh? So the claim "he just froze you because of Valkorion!" holds no water).

Edited February 14, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[casirabit]

I have a question regarding Arcann and the romance.

 

Wouldn't the Alliance, Republic and Empire have a problem with someone that is romancing him after what he had done. I would think it would make sense if that happened those factions would refuse to have anything to do with a person like that and even to the point strip you of any rank you many hold in the Republic or Empire and may even the Alliance.

 

Just something I thought of.

[JennyFlynn]

I have a question regarding Arcann and the romance.

 

Wouldn't the Alliance, Republic and Empire have a problem with someone that is romancing him after what he had done. I would think it would make sense if that happened those factions would refuse to have anything to do with a person like that and even to the point strip you of any rank you many hold in the Republic or Empire and may even the Alliance.

 

Just something I thought of.

Yep, that has been the argument of some, including myself, in threads such as these. From a story point of view, it makes little to no sense. Alas, none of that seems to matter in the face of pixel smoochies, just as we're not supposed to care about the planets he destroyed and the people who died there because they're just nameless and faceless strangers we didn't know so who cares that they're dead?

[Gelious]

I agree. The way writers treat Arcann in the game is beyond unfair:

 

- First they use whatever pity or sympathy you have towards Senya to get you to spare him.

 

- Then they remove any possible option for him except joining your Alliance.

 

- And now they plan to make him a romance option. Wait what?

 

It's not enough that they have barely enough resources to make new content. It's not enough that not all chars got their previous comps back. including LIs. So instead of doing something more productive and useful they go for a new romance... with Arcann of all people. What the actual hell?

 

He does not deserve it. He ordered planets to be bombed and his own Knights to kill each other. He had no redemption whatsoever, unless you count the whole "got beaten up by PC and brainwashed by Voss" and I certanly don't. He got no punishment whatsoever, unless you count losing the throne, which is nowhere near enought. He doesn't deserve Oulander, hell, he doesnt deserve freedom or being alive, much less having a romance with anyone. And I have serious trouble seeing Outlander falling for Arcann, considering their history.

 

So yea, sorry, all the Arcann fangirls, but this is beyond stupid. And yet here we are, Bioware wasting what little they have on this thing.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Gelious

[IoNonSoEVero]

Yep, that has been the argument of some, including myself, in threads such as these. From a story point of view, it makes little to no sense. Alas, none of that seems to matter in the face of pixel smoochies, just as we're not supposed to care about the planets he destroyed and the people who died there because they're just nameless and faceless strangers we didn't know so who cares that they're dead?

 

Yeah, I mean, we don't see them, who cares how many people he killed? He still needs love!

 

It really doesn't make sense. Having Arcann in the Alliance at all is a slap in the face to the people he hurt, and IMHO it would have been realistic, as you said before, to have some of the Alliance walk out and others get very angry. I mean, if you have Koth there, he was so upset about Senya and Kaliyo. We're to believe that he really would have stuck around with *Arcann?* Same with the Scions. Arcann nearly wiped them all out, but now they're supposed to smile and be allies?

 

Having Arcann there would be a legit reason for Theron's actions, the uprising, and others to betray the Commander, IMHO. If the Commander actually chose to romance him, I think there would be mass walkouts, as well as any Zakuul allies turning against the Alliance.

[LordFell]

It's not enough that they have barely enough resources to make new content. It's not enough that not all chars got their previous comps back. including LIs. So instead of doing something more productive and useful they go for a new romance... with Arcann of all people. What the actual hell?

Quoted for Truth.

 

...I mean, if SWTOR were a game with a lot of resources, that was bringing lots of requested features to the game, and fixing bugs, and felt polished and thriving... I'd still be giving this decision a lot of side-eye. I'd still think it was a bad call, but I wouldn't feel quite so... betrayed... by the choice. There are 1001 better ways to spend money on SWTOR.

[MikeCobalt]

I think I may know how this would go...

The *Morning After The Commander and Arcann walk out together from the commanders room hearing the ever present background sounds of people working, machinery whirring and computers computing. As the Pair, turn around the corner into the War Room everybody looks and one by one stops what they're doing. The Commander and Arcann slow their pace to standing as they notice *Everybody is looking at them.

From the Side Tora with a smirk and sounding oddly like Beavis says "They were shagging, huh huh huh", Koth without moving says "Tora, go fix........Something. At this Lana hurriedly walks out of the room muttering "I think I'm gonna be sick". The Commander's eyes scan the room noticing even Jollo has stopped "Electro Sweeping" and is looking, even though supposedly he cant see. The pair turn to see T7 is also staring and a low descending tone "EEeeeuu.........." even the light in his viewer goes dim. For what feels like an eternity is almost seems like one can actually hear a Heart Beat. Nobody moves. A loud *Swish is heard as a blast door opens and C2 shuffles in holding a small pillow high in the air saying "I have an Improved cushion if anybody,.. wants....... Have I missed something?

[kodrac]

I agree. The way writers treat Arcann in the game is beyond unfair:

 

- First they use whatever pity or sympathy you have towards Senya to get you to spare him.

 

- Then they remove any possible option for him except joining your Alliance.

 

- And now they plan to make him a romance option. Wait what?

 

It's not enough that they have barely enough resources to make new content. It's not enough that not all chars got their previous comps back. including LIs. So instead of doing something more productive and useful they go for a new romance... with Arcann of all people. What the actual hell?

 

He does not deserve it. He ordered planets to be bombed and his own Knights to kill each other. He had no redemption whatsoever, unless you count the whole "got beaten up by PC and brainwashed by Voss" and I certanly don't. He got no punishment whatsoever, unless you count losing the throne, which is nowhere near enought. He doesn't deserve Oulander, hell, he doesnt deserve freedom or being alive, much less having a romance with anyone. And I have serious trouble seeing Outlander falling for Arcann, considering their history.

 

So yea, sorry, all the Arcann fangirls, but this is beyond stupid. And yet here we are, Bioware wasting what little they have on this thing.

 

I agree 100% on all your points. However, I still "support" it because it gives me hope that other kill option characters/companions can have a future.

Edited February 15, 2018 by kodrac

[JennyFlynn]

I agree 100% on all your points. However, I still "support" it because it gives me hope that other kill option characters/companions can have a future.

That is perhaps the one and only potentially redeeming factor about this atrocious romance--the hope it may mean the curtains haven't closed for other 'could be dead' characters.

[casirabit]

That is perhaps the one and only potentially redeeming factor about this atrocious romance--the hope it may mean the curtains haven't closed for other 'could be dead' characters.

 

I would like to believe that but after reading Keith's post I am not so sure. He needs to realize that no everyone likes Arcann but yet he states that it is everyone's favorite. Not in my circle of influence. They did that before saying everyone hated Koth and that wasn't true either. I really get tired of them saying who is everyone's favorite and who everyone hates. I am fully capable of making my own decisions and don't appreciate that comment.

[kodrac]

I would like to believe that but after reading Keith's post I am not so sure. He needs to realize that no everyone likes Arcann but yet he states that it is everyone's favorite. Not in my circle of influence. They did that before saying everyone hated Koth and that wasn't true either. I really get tired of them saying who is everyone's favorite and who everyone hates. I am fully capable of making my own decisions and don't appreciate that comment.

 

It's a figure of speech. i wouldn't read too much into it. But then again, this is the SWTOR forums where a typo can turn into a 65 page rage thread.

[JennyFlynn]

I would like to believe that but after reading Keith's post I am not so sure. He needs to realize that no everyone likes Arcann but yet he states that it is everyone's favorite. Not in my circle of influence. They did that before saying everyone hated Koth and that wasn't true either. I really get tired of them saying who is everyone's favorite and who everyone hates. I am fully capable of making my own decisions and don't appreciate that comment.

Pure hyperbole, I suspect. Thoughtless and inaccurate to be sure, and ignorantly bleated in a desire to make everything sound exciting. If, at this point, they truly believe everyone loves Arcann then there's literally no hope left for this game at all and I, perhaps naively, hope they're not actually that dumb.

 

I made a point to let him know I disagree. I don't expect them to revert their decision at this point, nor am I asking them to, but at the very least I can voice my opinion and hope it registers somewhere.

[Ralei]

The only thing good I can see about the Arcann romance is that it is guaranteed to be as shallow, brief, and disappointing as every other interaction with anyone except Lana and Theron have been in the past year.

 

Or maybe they've gone full on insane and are letting a writer fulfill their dream of an alternate-history fantasy romance about how Hitler really didn't suicide himself but was rehabilitated by a mousy, limp, female protagonist who smelled so good that he tried not to murder her and bathe in her blood and somehow confused that blood lust with emotional love and now she punishes him for all his past sins by smacking his booty with a horse whip and makes him call her daddy every night while she chants the 400 million names of everyone he's killed. IM SORRY DADDY, IM SO SORRY PLEASE LOVE ME PLEASE.

[JennyFlynn]

The only thing good I can see about the Arcann romance is that it is guaranteed to be as shallow, brief, and disappointing as every other interaction with anyone except Lana and Theron have been in the past year.

 

Or maybe they've gone full on insane and are letting a writer fulfill their dream of an alternate-history fantasy romance about how Hitler really didn't suicide himself but was rehabilitated by a mousy, limp, female protagonist who smelled so good that he tried not to murder her and bathe in her blood and somehow confused that blood lust with emotional love and now she punishes him for all his past sins by smacking his booty with a horse whip and makes him call her daddy every night while she chants the 400 million names of everyone he's killed. IM SORRY DADDY, IM SO SORRY PLEASE LOVE ME PLEASE.

That's... paints quite a vivid and horrifying picture but well done, 10/10.

[kodrac]

Or maybe they've gone full on insane and are letting a writer fulfill their dream of an alternate-history fantasy romance about how Hitler really didn't suicide himself but was rehabilitated by a mousy, limp, female protagonist who smelled so good that he tried not to murder her and bathe in her blood and somehow confused that blood lust with emotional love and now she punishes him for all his past sins by smacking his booty with a horse whip and makes him call her daddy every night while she chants the 400 million names of everyone he's killed. IM SORRY DADDY, IM SO SORRY PLEASE LOVE ME PLEASE.

 

That's the History Channel's new show isn't it? Finding Ancient Hitler Aliens: Forged in Stupid.

Edited February 15, 2018 by kodrac

[LordFell]

I made a point to let him know I disagree. I don't expect them to revert their decision at this point, nor am I asking them to, but at the very least I can voice my opinion and hope it registers somewhere.

I unsubbed, because I haven't even logged in in almost 2 weeks... so, I probably won't be around when the Arcann romance is released. I'm resigned to the fact that it's coming, though. However... if this incoming story/alert doesn't allow me to have him exiled... I mean, maybe we "can't" kill him now that he's "redeemed" so, sure, whatever... but we can and should have the option to send him away. I mean, if our options are "romance him" or "do not romance him" I'm going to be irate (if I'm even paying attention then). I mean, like, throw flaming poop at the Austin HQ kinda mad.

[Keta]

I unsubbed after the "road map" release. This was the first reason I cited. Unfortunately I'll still be a subcribber when the Arcann romance hits but whether I'm in game at that time is debatable. And yeah, it'll be "Romance" or "No." They're fairly well convinced this is a stunningly popular move on their part.

 

Matters not though. It's a game and I'm out.

[Eksenia]

Romance with Arcann is like prisoner of Gulag camp develop Stockholm syndrome love crush with comrade Stalin.

[IoNonSoEVero]

I was thinking of writing an actual letter to Keith to let him know how I was feeling about this, but I figure I'll just say it here. I was trying to think of why I have such a visceral reaction.

 

Members of my family are in the Dutch Holocaust memorial. I'm not Jewish myself but am a member of two other groups that were persecuted and killed by Nazis and others (LGBT and disabled). When someone who commits genocide is painted with a sympathetic brush, let off the hook without any punishment and now is considered romance material, it's really disturbing and unsettling to me on a very personal level.

 

All of the arguments that people use to defend Arcann - that he had a rough childhood, that it's not really genocide, that other people do bad things too, that he could change -are used to defend people who do very bad things in real life.

 

A game can't be a moral compass but I do feel there are lines that can be crossed, and this is one of them. I am remaining subscribed for the moment, but am considering not renewing because of this.

[Keta]

I was thinking of writing an actual letter to Keith to let him know how I was feeling about this, but I figure I'll just say it here. I was trying to think of why I have such a visceral reaction.

 

Members of my family are in the Dutch Holocaust memorial. I'm not Jewish myself but am a member of two other groups that were persecuted and killed by Nazis and others (LGBT and disabled). When someone who commits genocide is painted with a sympathetic brush, let off the hook without any punishment and now is considered romance material, it's really disturbing and unsettling to me on a very personal level.

 

All of the arguments that people use to defend Arcann - that he had a rough childhood, that it's not really genocide, that other people do bad things too, that he could change -are used to defend people who do very bad things in real life.

 

A game can't be a moral compass but I do feel there are lines that can be crossed, and this is one of them. I am remaining subscribed for the moment, but am considering not renewing because of this.

 

Write the letter to him. Seriously. You're probably the only person, or one of just a very few, who can write such a letter with any degree of authority. And copy Eric on it.