Leave murader alone buff other melee classes

[TrixxieTriss]

Well mara's mostly.

 

So, snipers and Mercs are fine?

[Evolixe]

From someone who has played all 3 id like to ask:

 

Did the removal of the DR on stun from shadows hurt that bad? If so why?

 

Because when a Sin is stunned, they have nothing going for them. Nothing.

No DR, no Escapes, no Defensive cooldowns that can be used while incapacitated.

If the Sin has used his breaker.. all you have to do is switch to him, stun him.. and global him.

 

It really doesn't take much to kill a Sin nowadays. You just have to know how.

[Mannok]

12345 Edited January 25, 2018 by Mannok

[Evolixe]

Oh let me get one thing very straight, i dont think there are too many stuns in the game or that stuns are inherently overpowered.

 

However, that doesn't take away the fact that some classes are FAR better equipped to deal with them than others.

[Mannok]

12345 Edited January 25, 2018 by Mannok

[kissingaiur]

It’s as if everyone who was bullied out of the “nerf marauder” thread by ranked players had to make their own thread so they can regurgitate the same nonsensical bs all over again.

 

Continuing these uneducated delusions on another thread doesn’t give them any more power then they did in the last one.

[KendraP]

Now the CORE META of Snipers, Mercs, Maras (+juggers) and Skanks are more or less immune.

 

You think jugg dps has the same survivability as a sniper or merc? Now I'm not taking this thread seriously any more.

 

Note I have started including shadows in my posts about dps specs of tank capable classes. Because quite frankly all 3 melt under any kind of focus.

[supertimtaf]

Yeah true. But I didn't say that either. Stun+Extreme Burst: Create META, bad and potato PvP. Defenses against it: Create META.

 

But you have to see the fun of Sins being epicly trolled by the devs aka hybris:

 

Saying Sins are without Stun defenses, which has *** pwned sorcs/opers since launch and at the same time: play the class with up to a maximum of 9.. even 11.. 2-4 sec Hard Stuns useable within a single minute. And further trolled by being a big part of the reason, the other classes needed these mechanics to begin with.

 

Well... Sorc got to keep their stun damage reduction. As well as merc.

Powertech and sin tho ? Nah, those are fine, they don't need it.

[Mannok]

12345 Edited January 25, 2018 by Mannok

[supertimtaf]

No, no not at all. And, there is no need to hyperbole others arguments to make counter arguments either.

 

Juggers do have anti Burst DCDs and anti Stun measures, like Enraged Defense and the 4 sec immunity in Vigi/Veng. that was why Jugger was mentioned as (+Jugger). And Short+longer lasting DCDs, that can make them less vulnerable to being bursted, but never said anywhere near the Sniper, who is just flat out immune to Stun or Mercs for the matter.

 

Issue with the stun immunity in vengeance is that it's tied to the Force Charge.

It's not in your rotation, and last 4 seconds, not six.

This is a huge difference with Fury. ^^

 

As a side note, you actually have to finish the animation of Force Charge to benefit from the immunity.

While with Force Crush, or Ruthless Aggressor, you just have to activate the ability and you'll be immune.

Edited January 16, 2018 by supertimtaf

[Mannok]

12345 Edited January 25, 2018 by Mannok

[Foambreaker]

So lets spread that across the entire game? Alrighty then.

 

It is perfect! It is obvious most the remaining players lack to emotional fortitude to handle pixel death so making "everyone a winner" is the ultimate in care bear PvP.

 

We could even have WZs with standard NPCs on one side!

[supertimtaf]

Si senor I know and agree that Fury in this way is better designed - if countering CC is the goal. My main point is also more like: If CC is so strong that Anti-CC is game breaking. Then we need Devs to adress CC "before" adressing CC immunity. And adress it on Snipers first, as they have the most of it. But I don't think RA, was ever meant to be used as a anti.CC Tool either and that just adds more problems in one place.

 

And yes, kinda weird logic.

 

imo, it's not really the cc meta that is strong.

Its more players who can't be coordinated who are too weak.

Swtor lacks the ability to communicate quickly, especially in warzone. Besides opening up your chat window you don't have any means of communication with your team, while other will have that by using a TS or a Discord for example.

It's easy to chain stun peoples when you are listening to each other. Try to do that with completely random peoples tho and you won't be so lucky.

That's the strong point of the Fury spec, and a sniper also, it's that it requires way more coordination than the simple but usefull "chain stun 'til he dies" tactics to get rid of it. ^^

[KendraP]

No, no not at all. And, there is no need to hyperbole others' arguments to make counter arguments either.

 

Juggers do have anti Burst DCDs and anti Stun measures, like Enraged Defense and the 4 sec immunity in Vigi/Veng (and increased base mitigation). that was why Jugger was mentioned as (+Jugger). And Short+longer lasting DCDs, that can make them less vulnerable to being bursted, but never said anywhere near the Sniper, who is just flat out immune to Stun or Mercs for the matter.

 

I didn't hyperbole, you clumped it in the same category. The self heal is awesome and as a tank the 90s cool down is plenty for me to get multiple uses out of. Now as a dps? It's thoroughly overrated. The one nice thing is that, as you say, it can be used while stunned. Most burst classes (or heck even reasonably bursty dot classes) can hit you for more than the heal as a dps. It's basically a dot mitigator.

 

I grant you the stun immunity on leap is nice but I though it wasn't the full boss immunity you get off of a fury mara? (Again, that's a genuine question).

 

I literally went back to tanking because I couldn't handle dying 10 times a match. So I admit I have a bit of a sensitivity where it's concerned. I do however, try to be reasonable in general (despite the flame war on the nerf guard thread). Since it has genuinely seemed to be the case, I have started pitching for all dps specs of tank capable classes. This is despite the fact I have been a tank main since I started playing the game and in all honestly will probably never go back to being a dps main in PvP.

[Evolixe]

It’s as if everyone who was bullied out of the “nerf marauder” thread by ranked players had to make their own thread so they can regurgitate the same nonsensical bs all over again.

 

Continuing these uneducated delusions on another thread doesn’t give them any more power then they did in the last one.

 

Kind of what it looks like tbh

[RACATW]

Kind of what it looks like tbh

 

Op is correct though, sin and shadow players are the angry pitch fork hoisting players. Granted there may be an op thrown in as well who can't quite deal with a mara chasing them.

 

This is coming from a jugg main.

[KendraP]

Op is correct though, sin and shadow players are the angry pitch fork hoisting players. Granted there may be an op thrown in as well who can't quite deal with a mara chasing them.

 

This is coming from a jugg main.

 

As another jugg main, we're used to having maras chase us XD

 

Based on my discussion and the answers to my question earlier, however, the sins do have a point.

[Mournblood]

It’s as if everyone who was bullied out of the “nerf marauder” thread by ranked players had to make their own thread so they can regurgitate the same nonsensical bs all over again.

 

Continuing these uneducated delusions on another thread doesn’t give them any more power then they did in the last one.

 

Please. As if everyone was being so reasonable in that thread, and I certainly don't want to bump a 40+ page thread mostly comprised of whining. Nonsensical BS, indeed. Your opinion, however biased, doesn't make you right. Maras are not the most OP DPS class currently in circulation, despite your protestations to the contrary.

 

And from where I'm sitting, most of the players QQ'ing about Marauders sound like one of those all too common players who jumps into a WZ thinking that killing stuff is the only objective, and when they get their posterior handed to them by a dual light saber wielding melee class, they run to the "Nerf Marauder" thread claiming that they do twice the damage of Mercs and Snipers, that they fart Force Lightning, and their ability to survive being in melee range long enough to hurt anyone somehow makes them overpowered.

 

Uneducated delusions about sums it up. Thanks for stopping by.

[Seterade]

Please. As if everyone was being so reasonable in that thread, and I certainly don't want to bump a 40+ page thread mostly comprised of whining. Nonsensical BS, indeed. Your opinion, however biased, doesn't make you right. Maras are not the most OP DPS class currently in circulation, despite your protestations to the contrary.

 

And from where I'm sitting, most of the players QQ'ing about Marauders sound like one of those all too common players who jumps into a WZ thinking that killing stuff is the only objective, and when they get their posterior handed to them by a dual light saber wielding melee class, they run to the "Nerf Marauder" thread claiming that they do twice the damage of Mercs and Snipers, that they fart Force Lightning, and their ability to survive being in melee range long enough to hurt anyone somehow makes them overpowered.

 

Uneducated delusions about sums it up. Thanks for stopping by.

I don't have a problem with their dps. I hit harder on my jugg spec. The issue is not a dps problem its RA. Not their damage.

[yellow_]

And from where I'm sitting, most of the players QQ'ing about Marauders sound like one of those all too common players who jumps into a WZ thinking that killing stuff is the only objective, and when they get their posterior handed to them by a dual light saber wielding melee class, they run to the "Nerf Marauder" thread claiming that they do twice the damage of Mercs and Snipers, that they fart Force Lightning, and their ability to survive being in melee range long enough to hurt anyone somehow makes them overpowered.

Or maybe they actually play group ranked and are aware of the fact maras were already strong in 4.0 before ruthless aggressor was even an idea in some clueless developer's mind. And then in 5.0 they went from a strong class to a more or less must-have class if your opponents are capable and running marauders themselves, which is basically exactly what you would expect when a class already near the top of the food chain gets buffed. Marauder + Sniper has been the blatantly dominant dps combo for the entirety of 5.0. And that there is an extremely specific reason for this and it has nothing to do with bad players reaching for excuses in warzones.

 

You're being about as uncharitable as possible in your assumptions about people who want to nerf marauders. We can play that game too:

 

From where I'm sitting most of the players defending the state of marauders sound like those all too common above average regstars who think everything is fine with the class because they can steamroll bad marauders in matchmaking-less regs with their buddies. The same environment where above average players can steamroll running any class because regs are so profoundly uncompetitive. In short, they have no idea what they're talking about ("uneducated delusions about sums it up").

 

See how that works? I'm calling for the most significant mara nerfs of anyone I know and I'm a marauder player. I got a mara on fire title last season. Believe it or not, some people are capable of being objective about classes they play themselves. Marauders are clearly overpowered.

Edited January 16, 2018 by yellow_

[Mournblood]

Or maybe they actually play group ranked and are aware of the fact maras were already strong in 4.0 before ruthless aggressor was even an idea in some clueless developer's mind. And then in 5.0 they went from a strong class to a more or less must-have class if your opponents are capable and running marauders themselves, which is basically exactly what you would expect when a class already near the top of the food chain gets buffed. Marauder + Sniper has been the blatantly dominant dps combo for the entirety of 5.0. And that there is an extremely specific reason for this and it has nothing to do with bad players reaching for excuses in warzones.

 

You're being about as uncharitable as possible in your assumptions about people who want to nerf marauders. We can play that game too:

 

From where I'm sitting most of the players defending the state of marauders sound like those all too common above average regstars who think everything is fine with the class because they can steamroll bad marauders in matchmaking-less regs with their buddies. The same environment where above average players can steamroll running any class because regs are so profoundly uncompetitive. In short, they have no idea what they're talking about ("uneducated delusions about sums it up").

 

See how that works? I'm calling for the most significant mara nerfs of anyone I know and I'm a marauder player. I got a mara on fire title last season. Believe it or not, some people are capable of being objective about classes they play themselves. Marauders are clearly overpowered.

 

You expect me to be charitable about L2P QQ and FotM players who don't want to see the meta challenged?

 

RA in of itself isn't very powerful at all. It only offers 75% protection against yellow damage. It's the fact that it's tied to Obfuscate, which affects white damage (in the form of a 90% accuracy debuff), that makes it seem more potent. Yet the total duration is only 6 seconds, with a 1 minute cooldown. So you're seriously going to get bent of shape over a DCD that's only up 10% of the time? Without it, Maras would be CC'd and/or snared more often, killed more quickly, and it would significantly reduce their viability as melee DPS. But I'm betting you don't care about any of that.

 

As for reg WZs, if you eliminate the skill variable, the classes that are dominating in there on average aren't Marauders. It's Mercs and Snipers. If you want to try and pull Ranked WZs into the debate, the top teams are running AP PTs, Mercs, and Snipers (ranged and hybrid ranged DPS). The reason better teams run with more ranged DPS is to be able to beat the skank comps, especially skank PTs who can put out a staggering amount of elemental damage that goes right through armor. That's not to say you can't do well with a Marauder on the team - many do - but ranged DPS are undeniably better in the current meta (and have been for some time).

 

So don't come here spewing misinformation like it's Gospel to fit your narrative of why you think RA is overpowered, or your very obvious obsession with seeing Marauders knocked down below whatever FotM class you happen to be playing.

[shyroman]

So don't come here spewing misinformation like it's Gospel to fit your narrative of why you think RA is overpowered, or your very obvious obsession with seeing Marauders knocked down below whatever FotM class you happen to be playing.

 

Umm, he plays marauder, if you actually read what he's saying and not immediately get triggered by the words "nerf mara" you would understand. He's not the only mara who understands that RA needs to be nerfed either, it wasn't needed and put the class over the top with dcd's.

[TrixxieTriss]

In regs, I’m only seeing 1-2 Mara/Sents per match. People are countering them with a big increase in stealth gank squads and also Juggs are affective. It seems people are already adapting to the new meta.

I can’t speak for ranked, but the meta for ranked has only ever really allowed for 4 classes/specs because people always run the most affective. Easy solution for grouped ranked is to run 1 Mara per team, 1 sniper, 1 Skank or Merc, 1 healer

I really don’t see the need for nerfing Mara’s in regs because there are hardly any around.

 

Maybe we should nerf stealth and Juggs 😉 because there are too many 😘

Edited January 17, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

As another jugg main, we're used to having maras chase us XD

 

I went back to maining my Jugg and Sorc and the only on my Sorc do Mara’s affect me. So as another person maining a Jugg, I can say Jugg vs Mara is fine. Sorc vs Mara sucks, but that’s nearly the same as Sorc vs anything 😓

 

Sorc vs Sins or Ops actually sucks worse than vs Mara’s. It’s probably just me, but Lightning Sorcs melts fast against a op and sin combo

Edited January 17, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[rambolnet]

I can’t speak for ranked, but the meta for ranked has only ever really allowed for 4 classes/specs because people always run the most affective. Easy solution for grouped ranked is to run 1 Mara per team, 1 sniper, 1 Skank or Merc, 1 healer

No serious group ranked team would run without a tank. A DPS offtanking or a merc in its place would be fodder for competent opponents.

 

I really don’t see the need for nerfing Mara’s in regs because there are hardly any around.

We must be playing different games.

 

Sorc vs Sins or Ops actually sucks worse than vs Mara’s. It’s probably just me, but Lightning Sorcs melts fast against a op and sin combo

You're talking about a 1 vs 2 situation. Without support or a means of escape, anyone jumped by two competent op/sin DPS will melt sooner rather than later.

 

So don't come here spewing misinformation like it's Gospel to fit your narrative of why you think RA is overpowered, or your very obvious obsession with seeing Marauders knocked down below whatever FotM class you happen to be playing.

It's frustrating to see nonsense spread so insistently while accomplished players are ignored or outright dismissed.

Edited January 17, 2018 by rambolnet