People already asking for Mara Nerfs

[RACATW]

I suppose I just suck, but I main a Gunslinger and I get wrecked in PVP. I don't know how much you have to play to be super good, but I have been playing for years and generally do the weekly, so play pretty often. Generally get 8+ medals per match, but I still feel extremely squishy. Maybe i need some lessons...

 

Yeah. A 3 man granked eng sniper comp plus a merc healer is on my list as a terrifying granked comp good vs anything (especially melee but works vs all ranged and doesnt really have a weakness)

 

The amount of pressure would be insane. Although 4 mercs are probanly fine too.

Edited January 7, 2018 by RACATW

[supertimtaf]

Don't open with rotation if you suspect they will use pacify which triggers the buff. Just hit them, see if they pacify, and if so just heal yourself that 6 seconds.. then after pacify is down, do your burst/rotation. I have had to adapt to mercs who have learned to do this, and still die sometimes as a Sent. The camo skill might seem like a good skill, but good mercs typically will aoe me while camo'd which gives them a huge advantage.

 

I am sorry, but lol.. this is not happening. Our camo last 6-7 seconds and is on a 45 sec CD

 

Obfuscate 60s cd or 45s cd if utility used is a fairly long cd, or at least long enough for you to heal yourself, or prepare for the next incoming damage. Most mara/sents don't wait around 45 secs just for one CD to come up to kill one person, and if they do, they are one vengeful mf.

 

While I see your point, I would like to remind that the «let him dps you, heal yourself for six seconds» isn't really either a good solution (Carnage Mara just needs about six seconds under berserk to kill you for example. Six seconds are also enough to use the full burst of Fury, roughly 60k when played right) or simply not doable by everyone. No class except a healer can stay six second under focus and heal himself. What is the other solution then for a PT or a sin ? Use all our defensive at once, to wait until those 6seconds have passed ? Try kiting the mara who has Predation ? Nah, there isn't really a good, viable counter to this ability, which imo is the issue. It is too much of an easy kill when dueling, or even in 2v2 situation. Why in team ranked groups made of 2 dot mara are so hard to kill, even with healer and tank cc'ed on cooldown ? Because of this «oh sh*t» button. Undying Rage was enough of a panic button, mara don't need another.

 

The difference between a mara camo and a sin camo is that sin's will break on damage, while mara won't.

I don't bother using aoe when a mara use camo, because he's most of the time already far away with the help of predation. While the camo isn't a super good ability by itself (although when peoples are stuck in tunnelvision it's great to break the focus), Predation tends to boost up this ability by a lot. But that's not the topic. Mara's camo is fine, don't touch it.

 

And... you would be surprised, Leviathan and Malgus do have a lot of bad regs player. Vengefull-bad maras are over represented in both of those q, because right now Fury is an easy-to-play class, with a lot of «fire and forget» defensive, a bit like snipers who will pop ballistic shield and wait to be healed while keeping the insane dps. I think that's the issue with RA right now. As long as you set it on your main target (or the most dangerous one) you often don't have to bother with anything other than damaging as hard as possible. It's a lot like Undying rage in a sense (although it doesn't prevent a complete immunity sure) on a really shorter cd.

 

Before you ask tho, I mained mara for all 4.0 and played Anni in warzone during all of 3.0 (I just liked a lot the animations :x ) and clearly, good maras didn't need the force/tech resist to do some big damages. The only thing it does now is bolster up bad maras while making the good ones too powerfull. That's an issue, like merc's defensive before.

Edited January 7, 2018 by supertimtaf

[easyandrew]

nerfs,,,to me,,this is all the new token players who do not know anything,as previous posts have gone into detail which i wont,,i will however state since these stupid tokens came out on the gtn,,,we have had already the new FP ``nerfed`` and since then its becoming stupid i used to like coming here to read up on ,,,but now its all babies who want their battlefield crap here,,i`m a mara fury and i love it,,ive spent a long time doing the learning curve of the game,,yes many times i was frustrated like these twits,,but i never came here to beg for a nerf,,i adapted or totally changed how i play now i think im pretty decent in ranked wz`s,,stop,,stop asking for `nerf`s`,,stop asking for changes,,these are not the games where you sit on your couch and lay back with a pizza on your tummy,,this is a bioware game,to which thinking,tactics,co-op is pretty much a given..it took me a long time to write this because i had to keep erasing all the swear words i would have loved to keep in,,since i do not know the policy on such words i wont write them down for all these players crying and begging,,i wrote them down and now i will try to find them and just beat them non stop in wz`s ,,,kama..seems no matter what i play,,wz`s,,fp`s,,especially op`s,,mara`s are always to blame for every bad thing,,now i read some baby wants a nerf,,,deal with it and learn your roles

 

the idiot-mara....

[TrixxieTriss]

I suppose I just suck, but I main a Gunslinger and I get wrecked in PVP. I don't know how much you have to play to be super good, but I have been playing for years and generally do the weekly, so play pretty often. Generally get 8+ medals per match, but I still feel extremely squishy. Maybe i need some lessons...

 

A little research can often help or asking other players for some pointers. There are plenty of YouTube vids out there and people often stream live.

 

At the end of the day it is practice. Just doing the weekly will probably never be enough to take you to the next level.

The absolutely best ways I’ve found to get better at pvp is to start playing pvp on your preferred class at lvl 10. Yes you will get globalled, but you will also pick up some basic pvp skills needed later on. PVE is not enough to take you to the next lvl in skill, especially these days when it’s so easy.

Then play a lot of pvp as you lvl, but not during double XP because you will lvl too fast to learn properly. I’d even go as far as rolling another GS and only lvling that alt in pvp. By the time you get to lvl 70, you should know the class intermittently.

Once you think you’ve started to mastered a class is when youll realise you have so much more to learn. It’s only that realisation that can take you to the next skill lvl because you will then know how much you don’t know.

Two things help when you get to that point.

1. Roll other classes and play them till you get good. This will allow you to understand how to counter both them and also your GS as you find out how other GSers counter you.

2. Grind against much better players who will push you hard and give you a challenge. While every you play against the same lvl of skill, you will plateau out because you’ve got no one pushing you to get better. But this is going to be a major problem when your skill lvl increases because most of those people who could push you have left the game.

 

One thing that I’ve done over the years is roll a new alt everytime there is a major meta change from expansions or nerfs/buffs or if I’ve not played a class for a long time. I find it helps me to learn the changes better or knock off some of the rust. It’s why I currently have over 60 Alts

 

Medals also mean nothing in pvp. The system has been flawed from the start and doesn’t take into account different maps have different requirements. ie, Huttball hardly ever rewards the ball carrier with many medals, while the sniper off to the side death matching and not helping at all, will get the highest dps and 3 times as many medals. I take the medal system with a grain of salt because it rewards people who don’t help with the win and doesn’t reward people who carry whole teams to victory.

 

Anyway, good luck, I hope this helps.

Edited January 7, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Certainly no harm in looking into it, if it just doesn't look right and you are seeing it repeatedly, than it definitely should be examined.

 

Yeah, “if” there is a Bolster or gear bug that is “only affecting Mara’s”, then it needs to be looked into. I’ve not noticed it, but it doesn’t mean it’s not there. I guess the hardest thing will be identifying it? How do you even do that unless you know what Biowares target parse marks are when BiS. It’s not like you can compare it to other classes if it’s only affecting Mara’s.

[TrixxieTriss]

Don't open with rotation if you suspect they will use pacify which triggers the buff. Just hit them, see if they pacify, and if so just heal yourself that 6 seconds.. then after pacify is down, do your burst/rotation. I have had to adapt to mercs who have learned to do this, and still die sometimes as a Sent. The camo skill might seem like a good skill, but good mercs typically will aoe me while camo'd which gives them a huge advantage.

 

If you think mara/sents are more tanky than jugs/guards, something is wrong, or you are overly attacking when sents have Saber up or rebuke or some other defensive CD such as guarded by the force. Again, adapt, don't go balls to the walls if you see those abilities in use.

 

I am sorry, but lol.. this is not happening. Our camo last 6-7 seconds and is on a 45 sec CD, compared to sin permanent until they attack or are aoe'd.

 

Obfuscate 60s cd or 45s cd if utility used is a fairly long cd, or at least long enough for you to heal yourself, or prepare for the next incoming damage. Most mara/sents don't wait around 45 secs just for one CD to come up to kill one person, and if they do, they are one vengeful mf.

 

This is exactly what I mean by adapting. I wish more people would think like this instead of always QQing because changing tactics or relearning a new meta is too hard , which it’s not, it’s just lazy.

 

I will say, that if I’m against a solo sniper and trying to take a node and I’ve had to Camo, I will hide for a bit out of sight if my other DCDs have popped before I go and renegade. Then I’ll attack again. Often people don’t think to heal themselves while I wait. In rare occassionas waiting may even take me out of combat long enough so I can heal myself, but that rarely happens. I wouldn’t say I’m vengeful, I’m just using tactics

[FourPawnBenoni]

How can anyone ask for mara nerfs when Mercs are still OP

[Mournblood]

What is the other solution then for a PT or a sin?

 

I truly hope you're not basing your opinion about Marauder balance on PT DCDs, which are among the worst in the game currently. If you are, I'd kindly refer you to my earlier post in this thread on page 2 where I mention PTs specifically. The solution is to buff PT DCDs, not nerf Marauders.

 

As for Assassins, don't they have combat stealth if they get in trouble?

Edited January 7, 2018 by Mournblood

[Monoth]

Your always going to get people who get clobbered by another class calling out for nerfs just like your going to get people who play the FOTM class saying they don't need nerfs when they know it really does...

 

Bottom line, the fault lies with Bioware because they suck at balancing a game. Instead of really small tweaks to try and balance the various classes they do these huge changes that can make a class really OP or it can go the other way and make the class useless. These developers are just really bad at what they do. You figure by now EA is just running a skeleton crew on SWTOR so we probably have all the flunkies working on this game... IMO the direction this game has been going the last 3 years has been disastrous...

[Monoth]

I truly hope you're not basing your opinion about Marauder balance on PT DCDs, which are among the worst in the game currently. If you are, I'd kindly refer you to my earlier post in this thread on page 2 where I mention PTs specifically. The solution is to buff PT DCDs, not nerf Marauders.

 

As for Assassins, don't they have combat stealth if they get in trouble?

 

As if it's not hard enough to kill, what Bioware needs to do is remove all the Defensive abilities, the only class that should have lots of Defensive abilities are PURE tanks.... As it is now you have DPS classes and Healers being able to face tank for quite awhile because of all these defensive abilities which makes PVP BORING.

[supertimtaf]

 

As for Assassins, don't they have combat stealth if they get in trouble?

 

I was just quoting those as an example, the «take the damage and heal yourself for six second» argument sadly doesn't apply to most of this game's class system. I could have very well used a Jugg or an operative instead of PT ^^

 

As for combat stealth... the issue is that it often doesn't work correctly, we tend to get screwed by the travel time of some ability who will put us out lf stealth anyway (like an ataru proc, twin saber throw, vicious throw, focused burst... to only quote the mara one) or just won't get out of combat at all, this happen a lot on Hatred for example. I wouldn't mind your argument if cloak was perfect and working 100% of the time, but it isn't, like some of our other ability (phantom stride) and furthermore, wasting a cloak one just one mara isn't a smart move imo, but I think that's the habit of playing sin who makes me say that. If it seems such a great idea to some (and it must look like one,because players only have this idea in mind about sins : «why don't you camo, duh ?») well it shows that few of them have actually played the class for more than a day or two.

[darthscotty]

I am against much of a nerf to Maras for the simple reason they are really hard to play well and the number of really good mara players is really low. This is not a situation like it was with mercs and commandos.

[Kaedusz]

I am against much of a nerf to Maras for the simple reason they are really hard to play well and the number of really good mara players is really low. This is not a situation like it was with mercs and commandos.

 

Fury is easy enough for a bunch of maras, even if they are not the best at pvp, to create aids in a wz.

Merc is easier to deal with, because them being a bit op doesn't cause cancer.

When they are in bulk, maras cause ulcers, mercs are just funny.

Mainly due to the combination of the crappy engine and the speed buff. They need to be nerfed enough so their number would decrease so i would stop having to take blood pressure medication after warzones.

 

A millitant nest of immune to cc and damage fast moving cazadores from New Vegas make your teeth fall out and whiten your hair. Mercs just make you go meh.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Kaedusz

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Fury is easy enough for a bunch of maras, even if they are not the best at pvp, to create aids in a wz.

Merc is easier to deal with, because them being a bit op doesn't cause cancer.

When they are in bulk, maras cause ulcers, mercs are just funny.

Mainly due to the combination of the crappy engine and the speed buff. They need to be nerfed enough so their number would decrease so i would stop having to take blood pressure medication after warzones.

 

A millitant nest of immune to cc and damage fast moving cazadores from New Vegas make your teeth fall out and whiten your hair. Mercs just make you go meh.

 

Yeah, but you see, that's kinda the point. Why should Carnage and Annihilation Marauders be nerfed because Fury has a CC immunity that Carnage and Annihilation doesn't have? We've nerfed multiple times already, Carnage especially.

 

While I respect your views on Mercs and such, there is no bigger cancer in PVP than Mercs and Snipers in any number.

 

I don't think it's too much to ask that people take into account that not every Mara is a Fury Mara who just jumped on the FOTM wagon. There are still a few Carnage and Anni mara holdouts running around.

 

You don't decrease Fury Marauder numbers by nerfing the other two specs, that results in the exact opposite effect. Gotta give people a reason not to just jump on the FOTM wagon.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

While I see your point, I would like to remind that the «let him dps you, heal yourself for six seconds» isn't really either a good solution (Carnage Mara just needs about six seconds under berserk to kill you for example. Six seconds are also enough to use the full burst of Fury, roughly 60k when played right) or simply not doable by everyone. No class except a healer can stay six second under focus and heal himself. What is the other solution then for a PT or a sin ? Use all our defensive at once, to wait until those 6seconds have passed ? Try kiting the mara who has Predation ? Nah, there isn't really a good, viable counter to this ability, which imo is the issue. It is too much of an easy kill when dueling, or even in 2v2 situation. Why in team ranked groups made of 2 dot mara are so hard to kill, even with healer and tank cc'ed on cooldown ? Because of this «oh sh*t» button. Undying Rage was enough of a panic button, mara don't need another.

 

The difference between a mara camo and a sin camo is that sin's will break on damage, while mara won't.

I don't bother using aoe when a mara use camo, because he's most of the time already far away with the help of predation. While the camo isn't a super good ability by itself (although when peoples are stuck in tunnelvision it's great to break the focus), Predation tends to boost up this ability by a lot. But that's not the topic. Mara's camo is fine, don't touch it.

 

And... you would be surprised, Leviathan and Malgus do have a lot of bad regs player. Vengefull-bad maras are over represented in both of those q, because right now Fury is an easy-to-play class, with a lot of «fire and forget» defensive, a bit like snipers who will pop ballistic shield and wait to be healed while keeping the insane dps. I think that's the issue with RA right now. As long as you set it on your main target (or the most dangerous one) you often don't have to bother with anything other than damaging as hard as possible. It's a lot like Undying rage in a sense (although it doesn't prevent a complete immunity sure) on a really shorter cd.

 

Before you ask tho, I mained mara for all 4.0 and played Anni in warzone during all of 3.0 (I just liked a lot the animations :x ) and clearly, good maras didn't need the force/tech resist to do some big damages. The only thing it does now is bolster up bad maras while making the good ones too powerfull. That's an issue, like merc's defensive before.

 

A couple of clarifications if I may, I don't mean to be nitpicky but given that people want to nerf me for the 5th time in a row, I think it's important.

 

Regarding Force Camo vs. Force Shroud - Force Camoflage lasts 4 seconds. During those 4 seconds they can still see exactly where you are by looking at their mini-map, you will remain a red dot so there is no excuse why they didn't find you. Force Camo does not prevent you from taking damage. Force Camo does not take you out of combat state, in fact, you'll have to wait upwards of 20 seconds or more for that to happen, if the person you were fighting when you used it and remains within 30' of you, you will not exit combat all. You cannot heal with Force Camo, you have to be out of combat to use the out of combat heal everyone has. People who think that Maras can use Force Camo to H2F are confusing Force Camo with Force Shroud, Assy's can do that, Marauder's can't. Marauders have no heals.

 

RA's abilities are vastly over stated, people think it is a lot more effective than it really is. It only mitigates the force or tech bonus damage that applies to the overall bonus damage. There are four different stats that apply to bonus damage, tech/Force is only one of them. RA does nothing against white damage or the other three stats that contribute to the overall damage bonus. If your overall damage bonus was say 4800, RA's effect would only apply to the bonus tech or force damage which would be around 800-1000. The part that was left over would also be included, so, assume that at best 4200 of it is going to remain entirely uneffected by RA, your taking every single point of damage of that 4200. - It does not effect AOE damage. It doesn't effect CCs. It does not effect Dots that tick longer than the RA effect. In effect, when RA is in effect, you are still taking most of the damage of attacks. There is not one second of damage immunity, it is no different than DR. It's like Cloak of Pain on a significantly less less scale because it only effects a very small amount of the overall incoming damage.

 

If you think that it's effect is powerful or too much, you really aren't understanding how it actually works and that's not insult, it's a miscommunication. In fact, it is so much less powerful than people think it us that I wouldn't care less if they nerf the 75% to 50 or 40%, the difference is so minor in the overall, you are not even going to notice. The damage from one basic attack is more damage that the full 6 seconds of RA total can mitigate. If the total damage from an attack came out to 10, 860 without RA, with RA you will be taking approximately 10,200. That's not 600 DPS, that's 600 points of damage. I can sneeze more damage than RA mitigates in 6 seconds. Obfuscate is a completely seperate abilitiy and if you don't choose to take RA in your utlities, obfuscate will still do the exact same thing. That is why if you want to nerf RA, you can't nerf the CD because it shares the same CD as obfuscate, your not nerfing obfuscate because you can still use obfuscate even if you do not have RA at all.

 

Respectfully, it is nothing even remotely close to Undying Rage, Undying Rage is 4 seconds of 99% damaged reduction. RA doesn't even mitigate 10 percent of the the damage of any given attack. RA is not damage immunity and it the DR from Cloak of Pain is much powerful than the effects of RA because at least the 20% DR from it applies to all damage, RA applies to about 5-10%s of the damage of an attack, everything else you take in full.

 

If they want to nerf RA DR some, I couldn't care less because it's an insigificant amount to begin with, a lot of people seem to think it is, and I just don't know where they are getting these ludicrious assumptions from. If they deciede to nerf the DR that's fine, but it shouldn't effect anything else. RA has a second ability that comes with it that is not of a defensive nature that should remain uneffected. The CD factor can't even be considered because your nerfing two things at once and even if a person didn't take RA at all than they would have their obfuscate nerfed over something they don't even have. RA is not a baseline ability, its a utility choice.

 

For the record if they just nerf the DR some say make it 50 instead of 75%, I wouldn't even say a word, but, the thing is, no one is going to notice the difference.

 

Do I think it should be nerfed? My only objection is that I find it troubling that no one things it;s a little odd that there is only one class in this game that doesn't have heals, and people not only think that's fair and reasonable, but than worse still think that they defenses are too strong. I don't think Marauders should have heals, but they should without question than have the highest DPS in the game across the board.

 

It's hard to justify nerfing defenses of a class that is the only one who can't heal itself while at the same time not thinking it proper than that they should have the highest DPS in the game.

 

Marauder is the only class in the game that truly brings nothing other than DPS to the table. People who can off tank and off heal, and perma stealth, and bring people back from the dead during combat, can teleport, can CC people repeatedly for 15 seconds [stabby stabby], have self heals, have greater attack range, can DPS and heal at the same time, I have no problem with any of that, but their DPS should be lower than Marauders for the extras they get and that they do bring to the table.

 

What any of this has to do with people thinking their damage is to high I cannot imagine. If it was the highest in the game, it still wouldn't be too high for what they are. - The one and only true pure DPS class in the game.

 

I would love to see what would happen if they gave Marauders even a modest self heal hehe. The hypocracy would be priceless! heh Guess it doesn't really matter, long as Snipers, Mercs, and skank tanks are happy. They're pefectly reasonable and balanced, one and all. =]

[Kaedusz]

Yeah, but you see, that's kinda the point. Why should Carnage and Annihilation Marauders be nerfed because Fury has a CC immunity that Carnage and Annihilation doesn't have? We've nerfed multiple times already, Carnage especially.

 

While I respect your views on Mercs and such, there is no bigger cancer in PVP than Mercs and Snipers in any number.

 

I don't think it's too much to ask that people take into account that not every Mara is a Fury Mara who just jumped on the FOTM wagon. There are still a few Carnage and Anni mara holdouts running around.

 

You don't decrease Fury Marauder numbers by nerfing the other two specs, that results in the exact opposite effect. Gotta give people a reason not to just jump on the FOTM wagon.

 

I am sure the devs are smart enough to find a way to nerf just Fury and not the other specs.

* * *

Btw i must again put forward the fact that i don't have a problem with maras when they are few in number or when it is 1v1, but when there are so many of them both on the enemy and ours team it is *********** annoying. No other class causes so much cancer when they are in big numbers, in regs. And all i see is plenty of maras, some juggs, and healers. When the other classes/specs are in bigger numbers it's a pure queue rng rarity. (except mercs)

Edited January 7, 2018 by Kaedusz

[ALaggyGrunt]

Maras have to be fast with lots of useful DCDs because melee. So do the other melee classes, except several of them... aren't. Melee also have to be very good 1v1 because ranged classes stack damage and application much better.

 

At least until the fight gets claustrophobic.

 

I didn’t add anything but abilities. So I’m not wrong because it’s a utility. Not everyone chooses it, so it’s not a DCD ability.

Learn the difference.

 

The question isn't if everyone chooses it, it's if everyone good chooses it because it's that good. If everyone good takes it, it may as well be part of the base class.

I took it because it makes a formerly niche ability a lot stronger, and it offers several options for my build, which is anni:

 

I can use it when I expect burst (just about anything, which undying rage is already supposed to be able to do) or a stun.

I can use it when vicious throw has that +100% damage proc from the spec as an offensive cooldown.

I can use it when someone's trying to apply a lot of white damage to a teammate (merc/marksman sniper trying to kill my healer) and I want to take pressure off.

 

If it's so good you can't afford to not take it, it's too good, or the other choices aren't good enough. Maybe play with mara builds a bit and see if you can find something in tier 4 which works better.

[supertimtaf]

A couple of clarifications if I may, I don't mean to be nitpicky but given that people want to nerf me for the 5th time in a row, I think it's important.

 

Regarding Force Camo vs. Force Shroud - Force Camoflage lasts 4 seconds. During those 4 seconds they can still see exactly where you are by looking at their mini-map, you will remain a red dot so there is no excuse why they didn't find you. Force Camo does not prevent you from taking damage. Force Camo does not take you out of combat state, in fact, you'll have to wait upwards of 20 seconds or more for that to happen, if the person you were fighting when you used it and remains within 30' of you, you will not exit combat all. You cannot heal with Force Camo, you have to be out of combat to use the out of combat heal everyone has. People who think that Maras can use Force Camo to H2F are confusing Force Camo with Force Shroud, Assy's can do that, Marauder's can't. Marauders have no heals.

 

RA's abilities are vastly over stated, people think it is a lot more effective than it really is. It only mitigates the force or tech bonus damage that applies to the overall bonus damage. There are four different stats that apply to bonus damage, tech/Force is only one of them. RA does nothing against white damage or the other three stats that contribute to the overall damage bonus. If your overall damage bonus was say 4800, RA's effect would only apply to the bonus tech or force damage which would be around 800-1000. The part that was left over would also be included, so, assume that at best 4200 of it is going to remain entirely uneffected by RA, your taking every single point of damage of that 4200. - It does not effect AOE damage. It doesn't effect CCs. It does not effect Dots that tick longer than the RA effect. In effect, when RA is in effect, you are still taking most of the damage of attacks. There is not one second of damage immunity, it is no different than DR. It's like Cloak of Pain on a significantly less less scale because it only effects a very small amount of the overall incoming damage.

 

If you think that it's effect is powerful or too much, you really aren't understanding how it actually works and that's not insult, it's a miscommunication. In fact, it is so much less powerful than people think it us that I wouldn't care less if they nerf the 75% to 50 or 40%, the difference is so minor in the overall, you are not even going to notice. The damage from one basic attack is more damage that the full 6 seconds of RA total can mitigate. If the total damage from an attack came out to 10, 860 without RA, with RA you will be taking approximately 10,200. That's not 600 DPS, that's 600 points of damage. I can sneeze more damage than RA mitigates in 6 seconds. Obfuscate is a completely seperate abilitiy and if you don't choose to take RA in your utlities, obfuscate will still do the exact same thing. That is why if you want to nerf RA, you can't nerf the CD because it shares the same CD as obfuscate, your not nerfing obfuscate because you can still use obfuscate even if you do not have RA at all.

 

Respectfully, it is nothing even remotely close to Undying Rage, Undying Rage is 4 seconds of 99% damaged reduction. RA doesn't even mitigate 10 percent of the the damage of any given attack. RA is not damage immunity and it the DR from Cloak of Pain is much powerful than the effects of RA because at least the 20% DR from it applies to all damage, RA applies to about 5-10%s of the damage of an attack, everything else you take in full.

 

If they want to nerf RA DR some, I couldn't care less because it's an insigificant amount to begin with, a lot of people seem to think it is, and I just don't know where they are getting these ludicrious assumptions from. If they deciede to nerf the DR that's fine, but it shouldn't effect anything else. RA has a second ability that comes with it that is not of a defensive nature that should remain uneffected. The CD factor can't even be considered because your nerfing two things at once and even if a person didn't take RA at all than they would have their obfuscate nerfed over something they don't even have. RA is not a baseline ability, its a utility choice.

 

For the record if they just nerf the DR some say make it 50 instead of 75%, I wouldn't even say a word, but, the thing is, no one is going to notice the difference.

 

Do I think it should be nerfed? My only objection is that I find it troubling that no one things it;s a little odd that there is only one class in this game that doesn't have heals, and people not only think that's fair and reasonable, but than worse still think that they defenses are too strong. I don't think Marauders should have heals, but they should without question than have the highest DPS in the game across the board.

 

It's hard to justify nerfing defenses of a class that is the only one who can't heal itself while at the same time not thinking it proper than that they should have the highest DPS in the game.

 

Marauder is the only class in the game that truly brings nothing other than DPS to the table. People who can off tank and off heal, and perma stealth, and bring people back from the dead during combat, can teleport, can CC people repeatedly for 15 seconds [stabby stabby], have self heals, have greater attack range, can DPS and heal at the same time, I have no problem with any of that, but their DPS should be lower than Marauders for the extras they get and that they do bring to the table.

 

What any of this has to do with people thinking their damage is to high I cannot imagine. If it was the highest in the game, it still wouldn't be too high for what they are. - The one and only true pure DPS class in the game.

 

I would love to see what would happen if they gave Marauders even a modest self heal hehe. The hypocracy would be priceless! heh Guess it doesn't really matter, long as Snipers, Mercs, and skank tanks are happy. They're pefectly reasonable and balanced, one and all. =]

 

Sorry Grim, but you're completely wrong on one part

 

I'll just quote the exact tooltip for Ruthless Aggressor, you can find it on Dulfy here

 

Ruthless Aggressor :

Vicious Throw refunds 2 Rage when used on a target affected by your Obfuscate and can be used on any target affected by your Obfuscate, regardless of remaining health. Additionally, activating Obfuscate grant you Ruthless Aggressor, increasing your Force and Tech resistance by 75% for six seconds.

 

You're talking like if R.A. was a damage reduction.

But it just show that you don't play tank, which isn't bad, but it leads to you not understanding correctly what resist chances means. We're gonna talk about one stat called "Defense".

If you open your character sheet and hover your mouse over the "Defense Chance" section, you'll see four different stat appear :

-Melee Defense chances

-Ranged Defense chances

-Force resist chances

-Tech resist chances

 

Primary thing to note is that as a marauder, and like any other dps class, you have a base of 5% Melee/Ranged Defense chances. What does it means ? It means that against a target with zero accuracy stat, you have five percent chances to simply not take any damage from a Melee or Ranged attack. This apply to every melee or ranged attack that are thrown in your direction. As a reminder, a successfull parry will nullify ALL of the damage of this attack. It's like an operative using Evasion on a melee attack. You'll just see "Evade" and nothing else.

Do not mix that with the Shield and Absorption stat, who are for tanks and only for tanks. (Shield stat increase the chance to shield a force/tech attack, and Absorption increase the amount of damage nullified by the shield. You'll still take damage when shielding an attack. You won't take damage when parrying an attack).

 

The interesting part though, come with the "Force resist chance" and "Tech resist chance".

As an indication, no dps or healer has anything in this section. The only who have some are tanks, and it doesn't go much higher than 4percent most of the time. What it does is exactly the same as the defense chance : It completely nullify the effect of a force or tech attack. Remember a sin's shroud ? Shroud basically give us 200% resist chance. We don't take any damage from a tech attack during that time, we don't take any tech or force effect also. What Ruthless Aggressor does is that it increase this stat from 0% to 75%. It doesn't increase your damage reduction, not at all. It increase your chance to completely avoid every Force/Tech attack during six seconds. It works with cc too if they are F/T, it works with AoE if they are F/T... Sure dot will still tick, but three out of four time they won't do damage until the effect wears off. Three out of four time, you can also avoid getting hit by this dot too.

Isn't it incredible ?

 

Add the base effect of Obfuscate (reduce accuracy by 90%... Basically, it could increase your melee/ranged defense chance by 90% you wouldn't notice the difference) and you get a pretty unavoidable defensive ability.

You know what the best part is ?

If you manage to get stunned, the only thing that disappear is your defense chance. Not your resist chance. Even while stunned you will still take damage from only melee attacks. In short, we have one out of four chance to be able to hit you with half of our attacks. The odds are even lower if you're a sniper, because sniper have a Ranged stun, not a Tech stun like operative.

You shouldn't have to gamble with uneven odds in order to survive a duel against a mara. Because, and that I'm sure you won't deny it, a Carnage Marauder can easily kill someone in six seconds in PvP if he's quick enough.

 

Like I said earlier, there is nothing to be ashamed of, you don't play tank after all, so there is in theory no need for you to learn how tanks mechanics work in this game. But this led you to a completely wrong understanding of your class. ^^'

 

And... as for Force Camo, I'm pretty sure the red dot on the map disappear. I'll run some test tomorrow to check that out, but I'm like 90% certain of this.

Edited January 8, 2018 by supertimtaf

[TrixxieTriss]

I am sure the devs are smart enough to find a way to nerf just Fury and not the other specs.

* * *

 

You’d think they could when adjusting any class specs, but that’s not been my experience. They hardly ever nerf something that doesn’t also affect the other specs and it often ruins those specs more,

 

Nerfs are a slippery highway for all class specs. You should always expect those nerfs to affect the whole class and not just the spec. So be careful what you wish for because it might come back and bite you on the bum

Edited January 8, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[ivanhedgehog]

Problem with Ruthless Agressor is that there is a big misconception about how it actually works. The only damage that is mitigates [resists] is Force Damage and Tech damage. It does absolutely nothing vs white damage [weapon] damage. In essence it only effects "the bonus damage" for force or tech damage. If you look on your character sheet and look at where the bonus damage is listed which will be under the Force or Tech drop down menu you will see "bonus damage" listed, hover over that and you will see all the things that apply to your bonus damage, there will be 4 different contributers to the bonus damage. They are - Power, Force [Or tech depending on your class], Mastery, Skills/Buffs. You can't use the "bonus damage" on the main character sheet as it does not include the force or tech bonus damage there.

 

I'll use my character sheet values for demonstraitive purposes. Here is a screen shot of it. - https://ibb.co/fLZi7G

 

You'll note that of the four different contributers of bonus damage which total damage bonus comes to 3864, the Force Damage bonus is +1106, So in effect, Ruthless Aggressor would only mitigate[resist] the +1106 and do nothing to the other bonus damage contributers and the white damage [Weapon damage] which varies of course depending on class and weapon.

 

If you add all these damage bonus types with the weapon damage, people get as high 4800 to mainhand damage. So Ruthless Aggressor would still leave about 4100 of that damage unaffected. It does not resist against the total damage, only the bonus Force or Tech damage. Furthermore it does not prevent CCs, it does not effect AOE damage and it further is limited to an enemy who is within 10m of you. So you can't even use it on Ranged in most instances because most ranged [if they know what they are doing] are going to be a lot further away from you than 10m because they're wussies and it's a lot safer to attack people with an attack range of 4' from 5 blocks away [30/35']. Additionally, it shares the same CD as Obfuscate as you need to use obfuscate in order to use Ruthless Aggressor. So what people are confusing here is the misses that Obfuscate is causing. If you take Ruthless Agressor away, obfuscate is still going to cause misses due to decreased accuracy.

 

Most people think it applies to all the damage and that's why they think it's so over the top, which if it effected all the damage, it would be.

 

Now, I'm not gonna try and convince people that Ruthless Aggressor should be left alone, quite honestly, given that I do know how it works and what it's actually doing for me, even if they nerf it some, it's not gonna have as big of an effect as people think it would.

 

That said, I would love to hear the justifications people have why Marauder is the only class in the game without any self heals. No one thinks that it's a little odd they are the only one? You can't say it's because it's a pure DPS class because so is Sniper, and and they have some of the best defensives in the game in addition to self heals. Tanks take more damage than Snipers do.

 

IMO, Marauders shouldn't have any self heals, as they are, as far as I am concerned a pure DPS class and pure DPS classes shouldn't have any self heals. They should, however, have the best DPS in the game period [but they don't].

 

I cannot take anyone seriously who says Marauders have great surivability if there is no healer on their team to heal them. That's a crock of shyt. I personally would much rather see them as they are, now, Mitigation DCDs only, and no heals, but, if they are going to start getting their DCDs chipped away, than they should have some self heals like every single other class and spec in the game has.

 

No one needs Marauders to move fast, and pretty much every class has some sort of group buff. Classes are not viable based on a 10 second raid buff. If it is a tos up between the buff and higher DPS, take bloodthirst away because Marauders are about one thing and one thing only, the only thing they can bring to the table, DPS.

No other class in the entire game has more justification for the top DPS spots than Marauders do and if Snipers still didn't have any self heals, I would say the same exact thing about them regarding RDPS, like I always did before. The irony there being that despite their insane DCDs and self heals they are still the best rDPS DPS wise.

I'm not advocating any buffs for Marauders whatsoever. But nor would I go along with another Marauder nerf of any kind if it was not compensated in some manner DPS wise. Carnage holds the title for most consecutive nerfs in one meta some of which was totally unjustified [5.6], and Annihilation has also been nerfed multiple times as well.

 

Heals matter in PVP and they matter a lot, especially when everyone else you're fighting has them and you don't. No one has more of a right to alpha DPS more than Marauders do, which on the whole they don't have. - Fury is not the only Marauder spec in the game, time for people to start recognizing that.

 

Snipers, and Mercs and Skank tanks, they're all fine, let's nerf the only pure DPS class left in the game some more.

 

very well written

[DuchessKristania]

Admittedly, I'm not great at PvP, which is why I don't think I'm qualified to say whether a specific class is OP or not. I mean, I do my best and as long as people don't wise up and realize my teeny little sniper is the one blasting chunks of their health away I do alright. However, the moment they figure that out and jump on me I'm usually toast. Glass cannon for sure. I do think there are some classes that seem just insanely strong and fast though. Like they're on me and I can't even get two steps before I'm down. My sniper is decently equipped with most of my gear at ops level, still working on a few pieces. Admittedly, I'm not super fast on the draw in the hand to hand but there are times it's like a boulder just descends and squishes you before you know what happened.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Admittedly, I'm not great at PvP, which is why I don't think I'm qualified to say whether a specific class is OP or not. I mean, I do my best and as long as people don't wise up and realize my teeny little sniper is the one blasting chunks of their health away I do alright. However, the moment they figure that out and jump on me I'm usually toast. Glass cannon for sure. I do think there are some classes that seem just insanely strong and fast though. Like they're on me and I can't even get two steps before I'm down. My sniper is decently equipped with most of my gear at ops level, still working on a few pieces. Admittedly, I'm not super fast on the draw in the hand to hand but there are times it's like a boulder just descends and squishes you before you know what happened.

 

Mercs>Snipers>Everybody else. There can be no confusion here. It isn't about a few peices of gear, it's about abilties, it's about roots, it's about CC immunties, it's about self healing, it's about DCDs, it's about attack range.

 

Snipers are the furthest thing from glass cannons.

 

You should be owning melee, you have every advantage in the world over them [exception here is Fury Marauder due to that spec's anti-cc passives and ability to leap to snipers, but that is one spec]. You are simply not making use of your abilties properly. The only snipers that are being beaten by melee 1v1 are the snipers that are letting them beat them, or simply haven't sufficiently learned the class well enough yet.

 

Sniper's have better defenses than most tanks do. Snipers have no weaknesses.

[supertimtaf]

 

Sniper's have better defenses than most tanks do. Snipers have no weaknesses.

 

Except another sniper.

Which is dumb.

One Diversion and you're the easiest target of the wz :')

Edited January 8, 2018 by supertimtaf

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Except another sniper.

Which is dumb.

One Diversion and you're the easiest target of the wz :')

 

Good point.

[DuchessKristania]

Except another sniper.

Which is dumb.

One Diversion and you're the easiest target of the wz :')

 

Lol, this made me laugh, just made me think of Highlander. There can be only one, lol.