Too many People -> Instance-Change

[denavin]

I think this is where we're not clicking. I'm not expecting anyone to run through a daily with me. Just at the parts where we're all waiting in line. Take the CZ-198 Heroic +2 for example. If I run up to it and you're standing there waiting I'm going to send you an invite and vice versa if you run up to me standing there waiting. That way can both get credit for doing it once. I don't send out the invite at the quest box and expect you to run the entire set of dailies with me for just that one part.

 

I always reject blind invites, period. If you want to group with me you WILL send me a message asking FIRST or you can take your invite and stuff it. I truly dislike people that just send invites either for Guild or Group blind. I find it very it rude to send an invite without first asking if I even want to join your group. Assuming that I am in need of or even want your assistance is beyond presumptuous. If showing that you have manners is a problem for you, then there is no way I would ever want to group with you much less even be near your rude arse.

 

ASK FIRST OR FARG OFF!

[Ratajack]

Heroics are group content. You may have forgotten that because of how easy they've become to solo, but they're intended for more than one person. It appears right in the quest titles in fact, where most are listed as Heroic +2.

 

Grouping is not a workaround when running content created for groups, even if the content is now so easy that it can be cleared by a solo player's companion without aid from the player.

 

And that would be why they're listed in the SOLO tab of the activities interface, right?

[kodrac]

I always reject blind invites, period. If you want to group with me you WILL send me a message asking FIRST or you can take your invite and stuff it. I truly dislike people that just send invites either for Guild or Group blind. I find it very it rude to send an invite without first asking if I even want to join your group. Assuming that I am in need of or even want your assistance is beyond presumptuous. If showing that you have manners is a problem for you, then there is no way I would ever want to group with you much less even be near your rude arse.

 

ASK FIRST OR FARG OFF!

 

Does it really need to be that explicit? Pardon me ma'am or sir. Wouldst thou like to partake in thy mission? Please. It's inherent in the when and where as to what it's for. Again, I'm not inviting you while you're standing at the quest box or at a resource node. You all are choosing to make it more difficult than it needs to be.

[casirabit]

Does it really need to be that explicit? Pardon me ma'am or sir. Wouldst thou like to partake in thy mission? Please. It's inherent in the when and where as to what it's for. Again, I'm not inviting you while you're standing at the quest box or at a resource node. You all are choosing to make it more difficult than it needs to be.

 

I know you would go on and do your missions after you were finished but you also need to understand that some people can be a pain once you group with them. I don't mind grouping for one item, like the cz-droid but going on and doing my own thing and I imagine you are the same but there have been some that keep saying "well since you grouped with me for the droid can you help me do this or that and then when you say no oh boy the message you get back. Now I am not saying everyone but I have ran into a few of them and while I am the type that can handle jerks like that, not everyone can and it can be a problem for others. They just don't want to get into that with someone.

[casirabit]

Heroics are group content. You may have forgotten that because of how easy they've become to solo, but they're intended for more than one person. It appears right in the quest titles in fact, where most are listed as Heroic +2.

 

Grouping is not a workaround when running content created for groups, even if the content is now so easy that it can be cleared by a solo player's companion without aid from the player.

 

Well that can be countered with another thing. Before level sync you could out level the heroics and then do them solo even back before level sync.

[Aeneas_Falco]

And that would be why they're listed in the SOLO tab of the activities interface, right?

 

Someone got it wrong, if so.

 

All those Heroics started off as content intended for two to four people (most of them four) until 4.0, when they were all made Heroic 2s. At the same time however companions were greatly buffed and bosses were squishier than they originally were, making it very easy to complete solo, so most people started doing them that way. They were always group content however, and are still listed as such in the quest titles.

 

 

Well that can be countered with another thing. Before level sync you could out level the heroics and then do them solo even back before level sync.

 

You could also complete some of them solo without outlevelling the content though it wasn't always easy. You can do the same as well with some veteran Flashpoints today. That the content is soloable doesn't necessarily mean it isn't group content.

 

To be clear I'm not saying that players need to do group content while grouped. I'm just saying they don't have a valid complaint about wait times at objectives if they refuse a group invite from other players waiting for the same objective. If someone refuses an invite from another player who got there first, who didn't have to send an invite by the way...that stubborn solo player is choosing to wait in line.

 

Respawn timers do need to be adjusted on some heroics, but stubborn solo players are as responsible for bottlenecks as the devs. In most cases bottlenecking wouldn't happen if these people would just cooperate and group for two minutes.

 

Instead you have players who will refuse group invites and then spam AOEs on top of a spawn point, even if they were second to that point, or will try to race the group or player that invited them to get to an objective if they haven't reached it yet. I've seen one even use the spit emote when beat to an objective after declining an invite. A good deal of the bottleneck frustration is partly caused by antisocial behavior on the part of people who refuse to deviate from their single player RPG playstyle even for a moment.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Aeneas_Falco

[LordArtemis]

Dailies are no longer considered group content IMO. The evidence is game changes, as well as actually putting them under "Solo" in the activities tab.

 

That said, the problems with certain dailies existed BEFORE the changes made to make them solo capable, and there were similar complaints about them even when they required a group.

 

Complaints like respawn times being far too low for some, drop rates too low, too many items required, etc.

 

The complaints are simply more pertinent now that they have all been converted to solo play, which makes the situation even worse. Grouping does NOT solve the vast majority of issues.

 

I would like to see a community project that plays each daily and weekly, and puts forth recommended tweaks and changes.

[JediTahiri]

It is a amazing how anti-social so many players in this game are. The nonsense excuses for not grouping for a single freaking boss kill to complete a quest is ridiculous. I do NOT believe all these just stupid excuse for not doing it, If someone else is their waiting to kill it too. Not grouping with that person is flat out RUDE!. You are a jerk for not grouping and taking the kill then making that person wait even longer. There is absolutely no reason to not group. Oh boohoo I am a solo player and don't want to group, I am terrified of other human beings!. Oh please...such nonsense it takes 5 secs to kill something. So you can be in a group for 5 *********** seconds!. "i don't know their intentions".."you must message me frist" oh ffs. Its OBVIOUS what the group invite is for. Solo players refusing to group and making others wait even longer is JERKS. simple as that.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Me saying you're ant-social is not an insult. It's saying you're not social. But if you want to take personal offense and ignore the rest of the argument then so be it. Toss out the baby with the bath if you so choose. Maybe I shouldn't have said stick to single player games. It wasn't so much a "you should quit" and more of a "holy ****" statement But that was a result of my astoundment of how unreasonable your approach to a multiplayer game is. In my opinion, of course. You're free to have yours, however. We'll agree to disagree.

 

Labeling someone anti-social because they don't care to participate in one group-oriented activity that YOU feel they should participate in is pretty ignorant and judgmental, really. There's nothing unreasonable about my approach to a game that supports numerous play styles, not all of which need to mirror yours.

[IoNonSoEVero]

It is a amazing how anti-social so many players in this game are. The nonsense excuses for not grouping for a single freaking boss kill to complete a quest is ridiculous. I do NOT believe all these just stupid excuse for not doing it, If someone else is their waiting to kill it too. Not grouping with that person is flat out RUDE!. You are a jerk for not grouping and taking the kill then making that person wait even longer. There is absolutely no reason to not group. Oh boohoo I am a solo player and don't want to group, I am terrified of other human beings!. Oh please...such nonsense it takes 5 secs to kill something. So you can be in a group for 5 *********** seconds!. "i don't know their intentions".."you must message me frist" oh ffs. Its OBVIOUS what the group invite is for. Solo players refusing to group and making others wait even longer is JERKS. simple as that.

 

Well, I'm just sure everyone's going to line up to play with you now! Tantrums and insults when others don't want to play with you are always awesome!

Edited December 7, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[JediTahiri]

Well, I'm just sure everyone's going to line up to play with you now! Tantrums and insults when others don't want to play with you are always awesome!

 

yawnnn...you just can't handle the truth. if you run up and take a kill with others waiting.You are a jerk simple as that.Any other actual nice, considerate person in the game would agree. It is a jerk move and very rude to not group for 5 secs so other's don't have to wait.

[LordArtemis]

I am surprised a discussion about server instances turned into a back and forth, group players vs solo players.

 

This game has both. This game has content for both. There is no need for discourse IMO.

 

Plus, the drama is quite amplified in this thread. Many of the problems cited were problems that group players cited long ago. Also, it seems to me, at least from my experience, that most folks DO group up for certain heroic problems, like Valen Korik in Possessed Hunter...most folks invite people right away when they enter the area.

 

Grouping doesnt solve the respawn problems for bonuses or drop items when you have 145 people on a planet, perhaps a third of them running the heroics at any one time.

 

So enough with the back and forth drama and bickering, it isnt productive. Folks are grouping, problems remain despite this and should be addressed IMO.

[IoNonSoEVero]

yawnnn...you just can't handle the truth. if you run up and take a kill with others waiting.You are a jerk simple as that.Any other actual nice, considerate person in the game would agree. It is a jerk move and very rude to not group for 5 secs so other's don't have to wait.

 

There's no truth in your statements, but it's a pretty spectacular display of entitlement, I'll give you that.

 

I don't believe in kill stealing and ninjaing and have said so numerous times. If someone's already waiting, I wait for them to finish and move in after they are done. You know, like a grownup. Wait your turn, make your kill, move on.

 

Nobody owes you a group, and when people feel so entitled to group with strangers that they're going to scream and throw tantrums about it...they're the jerks. Most people don't like playing with others with attitudes like that, anyway. Grow up, wait your turn, or support things like more instancing that would help everyone.

[Eshvara]

I think we all need to calm down!

[IoNonSoEVero]

I think we all need to calm down!

 

Oh, they're on ignore now. I said my piece, moving on.

[Eshvara]

D; awww!

[Asmodesu]

Well done Bioware, all you have succeeded at this past few years is to create huge hostilities and insults between the two halves of your player base. Well done. *sarcastic clapping*

It creates a horrendously agitated and hostile screeching community that is incredibly uncomfortable to be a part of now and they did it to themselves.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Asmodesu

[LordArtemis]

Again, I see two solutions to this issue....I think we have to help the devs out a bit on the second one.

 

 

1) Trim the number of players that generate another instance to around 75.

 

This would, in the short term, relieve some of the issues since folks would have multiple instances to change to if they are having trouble in their current instance.

 

2) As a community project, some folks get together and play every possible daily and weekly available, and we all post bugs, problems, suggestions etc on each one, compile it together in a master thread that Bioware can use.

Then they can perhaps look at some of the dailies and make adjustments if they wish. I would assume they do not have the time nor manpower to undertake such a task, but we certainly do.

Edited December 7, 2017 by LordArtemis

[casirabit]

yawnnn...you just can't handle the truth. if you run up and take a kill with others waiting.You are a jerk simple as that.Any other actual nice, considerate person in the game would agree. It is a jerk move and very rude to not group for 5 secs so other's don't have to wait.

 

Maybe you should have read the comments first before you got on your tirade. Most of these individuals said they would wait their turn but you didn't read that, did you? You just got on your tirade because some said they wouldn't group and you made the wrong assumption and then you acted like a jerk.

 

It is not rude not to group if a person doesn't want to and frankly if you were in an area with your comments here there would be no way in hell that I would group with you and I do tend to group up with specific missions (like dk heroic boss or the mission in CZ). (not to mention I group up doing some flashpoint, uprising or operations)

Edited December 7, 2017 by casirabit

[kodrac]

Labeling someone anti-social because they don't care to participate in one group-oriented activity that YOU feel they should participate in is pretty ignorant and judgmental, really. There's nothing unreasonable about my approach to a game that supports numerous play styles, not all of which need to mirror yours.

 

It's neither ignorant nor judgmental. Not grouping because "people" IS anti-social. It's not an insult so don't get so hung up on it. It's a description of a behavior. But here's the problem with it: Many feel it's rude and selfish to make the rest of the zone wait for you. You're holding up the line by refusing to group. Yes you get the occasional numbnut, but they're by far the minority of players. You can't let one idiot ruin the whole thing for you. If you're anxious about it, as soon as boss is dead, drop group and be on your way.

 

We're all there with the same objective in mind: Do the dailies. Yes you can do it by yourself. So can everyone else. That's not the point. Yes you can run along and do other things in the process of doing the dailies that you don't need to be grouped for. But the counter to waiting on a boss spawn is to group with other people due to the game mechanics in place. If we didn't have the "first to tag" mechanic everyone could get a hit in and get credit. But we don't. I get that you want it changed, but after six years of it, we're not getting it. You have options. You just don't like any of them.

Edited December 7, 2017 by kodrac

[Aurelarduun]

CZ-198 and Yavin are cluster f*cks now..watching everyone run around like chickens with their heads cut off stealing your objective right in front of you...i know its everyone's objective also, but damn nobody has any patience to wait their turn

[LordArtemis]

.....but after six years of it, we're not getting it.

 

Based on the game's history, statements like these can't really be made with any kind of reliability.

[CloudCastle]

I always reject blind invites, period. If you want to group with me you WILL send me a message asking FIRST or you can take your invite and stuff it. I truly dislike people that just send invites either for Guild or Group blind. I find it very it rude to send an invite without first asking if I even want to join your group. Assuming that I am in need of or even want your assistance is beyond presumptuous. If showing that you have manners is a problem for you, then there is no way I would ever want to group with you much less even be near your rude arse.

 

ASK FIRST OR FARG OFF!

 

Are you actually saying that if I were standing next to you, clearly waiting for a clicky objective to respawn, that you would pretend to not know why I was there and what I wanted if I sent a request to group? I frankly find it rude to do that (and I say this as a solo player myself.) I hope you are just talking about random group requests that come out of the blue from someone not even in your vicinity, because I think most people can agree those are pointless. Many people in this thread are talking about the other kind though, where creating a quick group for a clicky boss and then disbanding helps move everyone along faster.

 

Honestly, after my poor experience on Yavin last weekend, where I watched several players ninja objectives out from underneath me, I began to wonder if the player who ignored me when I tried to join forces for one boss was engaging in just another form of griefing. The person I sent the invite to was clearly not afk..they clicked and jumped on the boss right away. Instead they actively chose to make me stand there and watch them, knowing that I too could have gotten credit, but they denied it. Now I was once again left to the whims of whoever else wanted to come up behind me and ninja the objective while I waited.

 

I am an awkward 2 finger typist. By the time I type out a polite request to group just to kill a boss, the item has frequently respawned and the moment has been lost. I have had this happen enough times that I realized it was foolish of me to stand there typing out the obvious. Do people really expect me to do this, all while they smugly sit there in their chair, laughing when I fail to type out the response in time? I hope not. And while all this is happening, I have to hope that some some other ninja looter won't come out of nowhere to take the objective out from under both of us.

 

1) Trim the number of players that generate another instance to around 75.

 

I believe 75 is still far too large a number to wait for a new instance. On regular planets it should be no higher than 50, and on smaller daily areas, no higher than 20-25. Any higher and people start to crowd in on each other, which creates the exact competitive environment many of us are trying to avoid. After feeling "crowded" and being ninja looted multiple times on Yavin with 30 people in my instance, that tells me that 30 is already over the tipping point.

 

I think that asking for smaller instances is a reasonable request. It hurts no one and provides benefits to many. The groupers still get their coveted "pops" - instance limits don't affect them in the slightest - while the rest of us get some much needed breathing room and the decrease in stress that goes with it.

[kodrac]

Based on the game's history, statements like these can't really be made with any kind of reliability.

 

After six years of no change do you think we'll suddenly get a change? Competition for objectives are ingrained into zone design.

Edited December 7, 2017 by kodrac

[IoNonSoEVero]

It's neither ignorant nor judgmental. Not grouping because "people" IS anti-social. It's not an insult so don't get so hung up on it. It's a description of a behavior. But here's the problem with it: Many feel it's rude and selfish to make the rest of the zone wait for you. You're holding up the line by refusing to group. Yes you get the occasional numbnut, but they're by far the minority of players. You can't let one idiot ruin the whole thing for you. If you're anxious about it, as soon as boss is dead, drop group and be on your way.

 

 

Nope. It's not anti-social. It's a way of playing you don't like, and you've decided to label it. It's beyond rude to feel that random strangers are obligated in any way to play with you or shave time off your game. You're not entitled to groups. If another player is there first, they get the kill first, and you get to wait. If you can't wait five minutes while everyone takes their turn, come back later. Grownups get this and don't stamp their feet about it.

 

The options available obviously don't work, since people other than myself are complaining about them and many have given up in the dailies and certain heroics.