Unsubscribing APAC players please sign to say goodbye

[omaan]

The wave of complaints since last week is enough to get evryone's attention, at this point people who flame will only makes matters more difficult on their side.

 

I say wait a bit longer, at nov. 8th we'll see what they have to say, if nothing is even suggested about the APAC situation and the problem persist, it's enough of a red flag for a comeback player as me to know things are going downhill pretty soon and will most likely confirm the arguments presented at this time.

 

So let's not flame the forums until the ETA has been reached ok ?

 

If they really had something to say they would have already say it. There is a host of threads from apac players, and apparently bioware saw them. The problem is they are not going to do anything (otherwise they would already write at least something reassuring that they are looking into apac players problem). Musco's message (or Keith's, i dont remember) about "some of you may experience a higher latency, report please, and we will fix it" is awfully vague, and we can not say that this was written to apac players. They could write the message about other players experiencing high pings who should not experience it (not APAC who obviously will suffer from high latency because of server mooving). otherwise bioware would write directly to those who lives in far continents, away from USA and EU without using phrases like "some of you may experience". Even this thread is currently moved into off-topic which only proves that bw isn't going to do anything about it.

Edited November 3, 2017 by omaan

[Jamtas]

If they really had something to say they would have already say it. There is a host of threads from apac players, and apparently bioware saw them. The problem is they are not going to do anything (otherwise they would already write at least something reassuring that they are looking into apac players problem). Musco's message (or Keith's, i dont remember) about "some of you may experience a higher latency, report please, and we will fix it" is awfully vague, and we can not say that this was written to apac players. They could write the message about other players experiencing high pings who should not experience it (not APAC who obviously will suffer from high latency because of server mooving). otherwise bioware would write directly to those who lives in far continents, away from USA and EU without using phrases like "some of you may experience". Even this thread is currently moved into off-topic which only proves that bw isn't going to do anything about it.

 

they are hiding from commenting anymore on this situation and will come out to speak on the next patch and make lip service comments on this topic (at best) when it is brought up.

 

Sorry for you guys getting screwed on this.

[AussieAlan]

Not signed, but probably will December, when its been 5 years of sub time, I want to give it a chance, and pings are not a problem for me, but I am a solo player, and I like doing heroics, when next week comes, forget it, more instances, faster respawns will NOT fix it, things just need to be made into their own instance area like class missions.

 

Dark temple heroic is bad enough now, 5mins respawn timer with new servers, no chance, you will see groups fighting for it, and no way you could just quickly jump to the pvp instance, you know what will be filled with angry kiddies ready to gank you.

[fushnchips]

Not signed, it's only 15$ per month and i'll pay it till the ship finally sinks in Jan 2019

[MuriaBR]

If they really had something to say they would have already say it. There is a host of threads from apac players, and apparently bioware saw them. The problem is they are not going to do anything (otherwise they would already write at least something reassuring that they are looking into apac players problem). Musco's message (or Keith's, i dont remember) about "some of you may experience a higher latency, report please, and we will fix it" is awfully vague, and we can not say that this was written to apac players. They could write the message about other players experiencing high pings who should not experience it (not APAC who obviously will suffer from high latency because of server mooving). otherwise bioware would write directly to those who lives in far continents, away from USA and EU without using phrases like "some of you may experience". Even this thread is currently moved into off-topic which only proves that bw isn't going to do anything about it.

 

If they had written something reassuing it would only make matters worse, I know that because I had my fill of developers saying that and making the community getting ******* crazy on the forums over broken promises and maybe even worse if they fail to do so. It's way safer for them to mitigate that by the end of their original deadline then create yet another promise and intensify the issue even more.

 

That'`s called damange control so to speak.

 

As I said, I suggest people, APAC players most of all, to read any updates closely until the end of the deadline (nov. 8th) and see what the devs are going to say, if they still sound off or not even mention the issue, you bet this is a big red flag for not only APAC but for all players of this community.

[Icykill_]

Or chasing players but never catching up, though sometimes it can look like you did, but in the end you didn't! Then seeing the person on an entirely different area on the map!

 

I had this when I was playing Aion N/A

 

Yep...

[-Holmes]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=936949

 

Signed.

[Talon_strikes]

I wonder how bad Satele Shan's server pop is gonna be once your guys' subs run out. This is not right on any level. Shame on EA and BW.

[Midwaycat]

It's more annoying that they just announced it and have not said anything about it since like they are expecting it to blow over :/

[jimmorrisson]

Unfortunately at this point everything appears to be "working as intended" where "intended" means TOR has downsized, focusing on America, specifically the East Coast USA, specifically comestic-minded micro-transaction players.

 

As someone who is in Florida and purchased a few pricey direct sales (Revan Reborn and Kylo Ren sword) I will miss playing alongside APAC who helped put the 24/7 gameplay into Harbingers 24/7 gameplay.

[Theeko]

Yeah, Intended to make prestige items go over the cap and hand people free decorations that were worth millions simply because they server transfered each time before the merge.

[iFenris]

If they had to move, I don't know why they didn't move both servers to the west coast, yeah the east coasters may have got a slight increase in ping, but in turn, they would've kept a lot of the APAC players, and I myself am an APAC player who was on a East Coast at 200 ping. Not much of a smart decision on BW/EA's end.

[Icykill_]

The on going problem as I see it after giving them 3 weeks is that they haven’t optimised enough.

 

I know nothing can be done about the extra ping from distance. But Keith said they were going to fix the ping spikes etc. this has not happened yet and I’ve the proof from testing to show it.

They need to fix their own internal network ping spikes if they hope to retain anyone.

 

I’ve tested for the last two days from Australia using multiple methods to test on 3 different networks. FTTP, ADSL2+, mobile 4G. That are all with different ISPs. I’ve tested this on both high end gaming PCs.

159.153.65.222

159.153.65.226

(I’ve not provided screen dumps because all my email and forum writing is done on the iPad and I don’t feel like typing them all out, so I’ll summarise)

 

- Tracert (FTTN, ADSL2+)

- Using a Windows CMD shell ping command (FTTN, ADSL2+)

- Ping plotter (PC & iPad) (iPad on 4G and home wifi)

- Net Analyzer (has a ping and tracert function) (iPad) on 4G and Home wifi

- In game ping meter

 

I’m seeing some very different results that don’t match up with the in game ping meter except ping plotter, which seems to be the most accurate

 

PC and FTTP

Tracert gives a steady connection and shows no spikes what so ever. The speed doesn’t exceed 276ms

CMD shell ping fluctuates between 272-281ms

Ping plotter (both PC and iPad give very similar results as each other on FTTN), and shows speeds really close to the in game meter (I’ll go into that in a minute)

In game meter has a base of 278-286ms and fluctuates with constant spikes that last 3-5 secs up to 400ms (average spikes are around 330ms)

So, the interesting thing here is ping plotter records nearly exactly the results as in the game meter with a 1% margin of error. Except it’s also recording larger spikes of 600ms that last 1 sec. I believe this is because the in game meter ignores spikes lower than a second and it may be the cause of ability activation lag (not ping).

 

PC on ADSL2+ (Uses different route)

Tracert gives nearly exactly the same steady results and speed as FTTP, even though it only goes through 14 hops and it doesn’t go past 281ms

CMD shell ping fluctuates the same as FTTP and is between 280-290ms

Ping Plotter (basically the same results as FTTP)

In game meter (basically the same results as FTTP)

 

iPad 4G and home wifi (FTTP) test to the game’s ip’s

Surprisingly the 4G uses the same route as the FTTP (except the first two hops)

Ping plotter records nearly exactly the same results as on the PC (FTTP) for both 4G and home wifi

Net Analyzer (need to use this to do a trace as iPad doesn’t have CMD shell for tracert). Both 4G and wifi had similar results, but not exactly the same. What’s interesting with this program is it shows the east coast servers located in Ireland 🇮🇪 (I’m guessing this is because the ip’s are registered there and not the US for tax purposes). The thing with this is both the ping and the trace route in this program show 331-350ms with big spikes constantly and never falls below them. I guess this program just doesn’t stack up in reliable numbers.

 

From all the testing on different ISP’s, connection types and routes, there is one constant and that is massive lag spikes in both ping plotter and the in game meter nearly match when they happen and the level at which they reach.

When I look at the data from ping plotter, it is always the last network hop (server ip) that is the culprit for the lag spikes. All other hops are fine 99% of the time. It’s one reason why I don’t just trust tracert or CMD ping alone to record what is going on.

Optimisation still needs work on the internal network or server. That is what I see in my results.

 

Playing story is ok... playing pvp is terrible with the increased lag, but add those 1sec spikes of 600ms and you get ability activation lag... then add the 3-5 sec lag spikes of 330-400ms and it’s implossible because you can’t get used to the higher ping...

Maybe if the standard ping was stable, I could get used to the higher ping (it still wouldn’t be good and it completely rules out ranked pvp)... but regs could be playable...

 

Keith, the problem is and has always been the lag spikes in this game. I’ve recorded/tested them so many times in the last 5 years and it’s nearly always the same... your network and server causing the issues.

If you have any hope of keeping the remaining APAC players as well as your west coast competitive pvpers, you need to look very closely at that and get it fixed. Internal lag spikes are something you can control and are unacceptable to players.

You will need to get people that are “outside” your personal circle to work with on this because for some strange reason those in your circle seem to be the only ones who don’t see these lag spikes, while the majority of pvpers I talk to do see these spikes.

 

I really hope you guys will continue to work on this and not give up.

[merovejec]

Ok, so can I have all your ppls stuff?

[-Wes-]

The on going problem as I see it after giving them 3 weeks is that they haven’t optimised enough.

 

I know nothing can be done about the extra ping from distance. But Keith said they were going to fix the ping spikes etc. this has not happened yet and I’ve the proof from testing to show it.

They need to fix their own internal network ping spikes if they hope to retain anyone.

 

Hmm. That's almost exactly what I experience on Darth Malgus. I do better on average for Shan or Forge, but, like you're saying, there are still regular spikes that make things a little more interesting. In particular, the regular spikes really take a way from the experience. If it were only a matter of playing with a consistent 200-300 ms of lag, no problem.

 

Just out of curiosity, what was your lag on Harbinger? Mine was around 150 ms.

Edited November 14, 2017 by -Wes-

[MandFlurry]

I Hate this guys, i really do, to the point i don't really like to play this game anymore. This is bleepin' depressing to me, that EAware isn't doing more, and I know EA doesn't care as much for this game as some workers say. They have to say EA is giving them the stuff they need, or their jobs or slashed.

 

I wished to God i could help out with this. Only good people will suffer, while others won't care.

[Yeldah_]

I'm not leaving yet because I am 60 percent optimistic and 40 percent foolhardy in thinking that this can be reversed. However I will say that this is burning both the Oceania / Asia Pacific players currently and judging by this thread many people are already leaving (take notes Bio-ware and Electronic Arts) which will mean a loss in subscriptions and therefore a loss of MONEY one of the few things that might ring some bells in EA headquarters. The solution is quite simple even if the powers are reluctant to commit to it. BRING THE WEST COAST DATA CENTRE BACK AND MAKE THE SATELE SHAN SERVER WEST COAST AGAIN. If it worked before it can work again. If you do this you will most likely re-gain any players that have left over this issue. This means more money for YOU; which apparently is the only thing that matters regarding Star Wars the Old Republic.

[merovejec]

OK, so I counted 13 ppl so far, no offence but I do understand Bioware in this.

[Zerileth]

OK, so I counted 13 ppl so far, no offence but I do understand Bioware in this.

 

Not that I really want to weigh in on this much, but what's the percentage of forum posters to overall players? Is it 10% for easy math? Less? And if 13 is the sample then 130 total. How many players on SS before data center loss to compute the percentage of lost players vs the total.... etc, etc, etc. And then how many were subs....

 

Just my 2 credits.

[Shayddow]

I'm wondering how long the European servers are going to last as well. I tried rolling up a new character on the german server just to check out things.... and there were only 15 players total on the Imperial Fleet. Only 8 on Korriban. That is low.

[merovejec]

Just my 2 credits.

 

yes that is true, yet I would think that most would come to forums after such a big issue like 100% lag increase.

 

I'm wondering how long the European servers are going to last as well. I tried rolling up a new character on the german server just to check out things.... and there were only 15 players total on the Imperial Fleet. Only 8 on Korriban. That is low.

 

DM will last VERY long, certainly a few years, but the community is become Harbinger-toxic like, its just too many ppl there so.....people are being people.

 

Germans are a very specific nation when it comes to mentality. I played some time on T3M4 and experienced a lot of weird things. Like I have seen full fleets with 2 instances a few months ago, yet nothing popped for hours, no PVP, FPS, nothing!! I really wondered what the ppl are doing then???

 

What time did you login? 6 am? if you are from APAC then you might have gotten the time wrong in Europe. The German servers were definitely full before the merger.

[xxpcwizardbetaxx]

listen EA/BW either move the NA to west coast again or Re-open one APAC Server and we can all be happy

 

But i give this game 1 to 2 years of life left if nothing changes. And I would see how the game is performing after 12 Dec after the QOL stuff is done

 

Anniversary Celebration – Game Update 5.6.1 – December 12, 2017

Quality of Life changes

Star Wars: The Old Republic Six Year Anniversary Celebration!

Wookiee Life Day Celebration begins

[NerfGatherer]

I live in the US on an island with subpar internet. 400-900 ping? I see 22k, which has nothing on 56k in mmos way back when. I dont love running into invis walls of lag, but I still manage to do very well and play around the moments of insanity that is going above 2k ms. I can't help but laugh at this too as aussies play all sorts of mmos in this exact situation, but of course forums are the perfect venue to vent at shady moves by the link in the chain that is customer service. How anyone wouldnt completely despise the consumer, theirs even, especially in mmorpgs idunno. No offence to us, we are all vegan americans at heart with special little snowflake tattooed on our skulls.

[Yeldah_]

So, lots of us from the APAC are unsubscribing because the lag is now to bad for us to play the game since they moved the west coast server to the east coast.

 

Before you go, can you please sign this thread so we can say goodbye and give a small indication of how many players/forum posters are leaving because of this.

 

/signed - unsubbed 01:11:2017 after 6 years of continuous subscription

 

Well, I gave Kieth a week to respond in a meaningful way about moving the servers to the east coast and apologies for lying or omitting to tell us before hand. All we got was a post from Musco referring to Keith’s bomb shell post to tell us they moved the servers🙄.

That’s just not good enough for me.

 

Well, I have waited more than two months for this issue of lag to be resolved and it is clearly not happening. After spending weeks trying to struggle, and claw my way through group ranked pvp (and regular warzones) I am spent. Bioware has essentially ignored my pleas for help regarding the problem that THEY caused. Apparently becasue I live in the South Pacific I don't exist and am not worth their time. I just want them (and everyone else) to know before I drop off the radar that they casued this. I wanted to stay playing SWTOR. This game was good and I thoroughly enjoyed the majority of it. However paying for 300+ms lag is just not going to happen. I apologise to my guild mates and friends that have helped me over the years. I hope SWTOR remains both viable and enjoyable for you guys at least. Also want to thank the few Imperial pvpers who gave us a good challenge over the years, many of you have been great. That's it for me.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Yeldah_

[Cattooo]

/signed as of today .

68 sub days remaining before it ends completely .

 

I dont need another reason for my clinically diagnosed Depression, but, I guess its nice to have one for ending my 5 year relationship...