Let us make an Petition, West Coast Server.

[Yeldah_]

Sadly, there is nothing the player can do here. With the way bioware all but lied about the server mergers and how it was done. bioware has no intention of allowing a west coast server for those gamers or APAC players.

 

If you play at all you will suffer that increased lag or get out. Thats the options bioware left those players in their attempts to save money. With how bioware made sure to keep hidden what they were doing till it was done, there isn't any kind of petition that would ever do any good.

 

Some of us are not so willing to just roll over and die.

[Quraswren]

Some of us are not so willing to just roll over and die.

 

Read my second post in this thread.

[Yeldah_]

Read my second post in this thread.

 

Going beyond this forum into other media is fine but this thread still needs to exist.

[TrixxieTriss]

Yes.. 60ms on top of the several hundred ms for APAC players to cross the pacific is noticeable...... however.. APAC as a region could not even population support a server 5 years ago.. so... that is what that is. Two out of the three APAC servers were ghost towns when they shut them down, and the 3rd one was pretty small population wise.. and declining.

 

Please don’t take offence, but that’s not actually correct and let me explain as someone who is an APAC player.

Even those “ghost towns” had more players on them than Harbinger did 12 months ago. If I remember, you even argued that the game servers 12 months ago weren’t dead, so how can you say those 2 APAC servers were ghost towns?

You need to understand that out of those three servers, one was pve, one was pvp and the other was RP. Even all of the pvp servers in the US also ended up dying and people moved to pve servers. Even the US only had one RP server still viable 12 months ago.

As for the pve server (Dalbora), it wasn’t small, we had 3-4 instances at prime time and it was actually active 24 hours a day. Which can’t be said of the servers now or even Harbinger 18 months ago.

Dalbora had more active players before they announce the APAC closures than any other current game server has now. As soon as they announced the closure, the population declined fast because no one wanted to play in the US and it wasn’t just because of the lag.

I’m sorry to say, but many APAC players didn’t like the US server culture, especially the bullying and trollish behaviour of many. Yes, we still had a few of them on Dalbora, but they were so few that many never even saw them or noticed them. They were drowned out by people who wouldn’t put up with them. Let me tell you, it was a very rude culture shock for me when I was exposed to the US servers. I couldn’t believe the amount of absolute disgusting behaviour by such a large amount of players.

I actually had a lot of American and Canadian friends on Dalbora because they also didn’t like the culture on the US servers. Sadly, most of them also quite the game when the APAC servers closed because they didn’t like the US servers.

If you’d been part of the APAC community, you would have realised that the majority of the population wanted one super APAC server, which would have actually been bigger than Satele and Star Forge combined. The minority of players who actually wanted to be merged with the US were.... wait for it... some of the people Role Playing.

The APAC community was large enough to support a super server and that’s what should have happened. Saying the APAC community wasn’t large is misinformation.

I honeslty believe the bean counters who made the decision back then to close the servers and merge with the US, had no idea about gamers or that they would lose such a large portion of the APAC community.

The amount of APAC players that stayed after the closures was small when comparing the total APAC community. I would guesstimate that we lost 80-90% of the community, but there were still a few thousand that stayed for a while.

EAs problem is the people at the top, don’t understand players or what we need to have enjoyment and it’s why they have this scorched earth reputation. You can go back over the last 20 years and see how EA has ruined many IPs and studios when they get overall control of them.

Edited May 19, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I'd listen to Trixxie, she knows what shes talken bout.

[ALaggyGrunt]

300 is not a ridiculous ping at all....still playable....

 

Ridiculous would be 30000......

 

Someone's obviously never tried to stay on a highly evasive target with a melee class.

[Kurj]

I don't think this will ever happen, but I would be very happy if it did. My ping is still pretty good (@80ms), but there is a noticeable difference from 30ms to 80ms.

[Keta]

Please don’t take offence, but that’s not actually correct and let me explain as someone who is an APAC player. <snip>

 

I live in Hawaii on one of the "outer" islands (The one with the volcano in the news to be exact). Back when there were APAC servers I always found my ping to them lower than my ping to the east coast of the US where my then guild played. When Harbinger was alive and "well" (Well being a relative term), my ping rate was about 1/3 of that of Ebon Hawke.

 

Today my ping to Star Forge is in the upper 200's most of the time, until I get in an area with loads of people (warzones, operations) then it's a lag and ruberbanding fest.

 

A west coast server would be great but this is really a dead horse. It's not happening.

[RikuvonDrake]

2. If this is not possible, an clear and honest answer, why not?

 

Not enough players, if it was profitable for EA/Bioware to have a west coast server they would do it, but it's not. So if you really want a west coast server, recruit more players from the region. It's hardly unreasonable, Bioware is a business, not a charity.

Edited May 19, 2018 by RikuvonDrake

[vanillacodered]

#signed

[Andryah]

Please don’t take offence, but that’s not actually correct and let me explain as someone who is an APAC player.

Even those “ghost towns” had more players on them than Harbinger did 12 months ago. If I remember, you even argued that the game servers 12 months ago weren’t dead, so how can you say those 2 APAC servers were ghost towns?

You need to understand that out of those three servers, one was pve, one was pvp and the other was RP. Even all of the pvp servers in the US also ended up dying and people moved to pve servers. Even the US only had one RP server still viable 12 months ago.

As for the pve server (Dalbora), it wasn’t small, we had 3-4 instances at prime time and it was actually active 24 hours a day. Which can’t be said of the servers now or even Harbinger 18 months ago.

Dalbora had more active players before they announce the APAC closures than any other current game server has now. As soon as they announced the closure, the population declined fast because no one wanted to play in the US and it wasn’t just because of the lag.

I’m sorry to say, but many APAC players didn’t like the US server culture, especially the bullying and trollish behaviour of many. Yes, we still had a few of them on Dalbora, but they were so few that many never even saw them or noticed them. They were drowned out by people who wouldn’t put up with them. Let me tell you, it was a very rude culture shock for me when I was exposed to the US servers. I couldn’t believe the amount of absolute disgusting behaviour by such a large amount of players.

I actually had a lot of American and Canadian friends on Dalbora because they also didn’t like the culture on the US servers. Sadly, most of them also quite the game when the APAC servers closed because they didn’t like the US servers.

If you’d been part of the APAC community, you would have realised that the majority of the population wanted one super APAC server, which would have actually been bigger than Satele and Star Forge combined. The minority of players who actually wanted to be merged with the US were.... wait for it... some of the people Role Playing.

The APAC community was large enough to support a super server and that’s what should have happened. Saying the APAC community wasn’t large is misinformation.

I honeslty believe the bean counters who made the decision back then to close the servers and merge with the US, had no idea about gamers or that they would lose such a large portion of the APAC community.

The amount of APAC players that stayed after the closures was small when comparing the total APAC community. I would guesstimate that we lost 80-90% of the community, but there were still a few thousand that stayed for a while.

EAs problem is the people at the top, don’t understand players or what we need to have enjoyment and it’s why they have this scorched earth reputation. You can go back over the last 20 years and see how EA has ruined many IPs and studios when they get overall control of them.

 

I think you are being a bit "revisionist" with history here.

 

I actually rolled on those servers back in the day... just to check them out. And when the studio announced their closure... they were ALL light most all of the time, even during local prime time in Aus. I believe the PvE server would get to "medium for a few hours during local prime time. They also were pre-merge servers which were much smaller configurations (pre-harbinger), roughly 1/5th the size and capacity of the post-merge servers. Two were, by normal player measures, DEAD. The PvE server still had some life.. but again.. small by comparison to the new servers after the first server consolidation years ago. And this die-off trend was extremely similar to the die-off post launch for the US servers. Basically.. APAC servers very much appeared to have followed a very similar attrition path as did the US servers (I cannot comment on the EU servers, since I have never rolled and played there). The only real difference with the US server farm was that players could and were rerolling off of dead servers to retain some feeling of being on an active MMO server. I gather this was similar for the PvP and RP server in APC with players rerolling to the PvE server. I seem to also recall that some players were already re-rolling from APAC to west coast US too.. which probably contributed some to the decline as well as giving the studio the impression a consolidation to west coast US would actually work and be beneficial in the long run.

 

Please understand, I believe every MMO company should provide localized servers for APAC, simply because of the long distance that electrons must travel across the pacific. However, I also understand they run a business... and when there bottom line is not there... consolidations have to be made. From a pure business perspective (taking off your player hat for moment) ... would you have kept a single server open in APAC? I doubt it very much.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Andryah

[TrixxieTriss]

From a pure business perspective (taking off your player hat for moment) ... would you have kept a single server open in APAC? I doubt it very much.

 

It really depends on wether the server is making money or not. If you have a super server with a good population that is relatively happy, the server should be paying for itself and making you money. Obviously if the players aren’t happy and start to leave, there will come a time where keeping the server running isn’t viable. That doesn’t mean the APAC servers were at that point. I would argue that Dalbora by itself was probably making enough money to pay for all 3 servers.

Taking my player hat off and looking at this from a business perspective, I think EA made a big business mistake in closing all 3 servers. They may have saved some costs of leasing and maintaining serversnin Australia, but they lost a lot of income from players who quite over the closures. It’s why I’ve always felt that the department/people who made that decision, didnt do a proper risk assessment on how much income they would lose. I would even go as far as to speculate that their bonuses or department performance was based solely on how they can cut costs and it was not even linked to revenue.

Sadly all they really needed to do to get an idea how gamers felt things like this was ask a bunch in the US what would happen if they closed the US servers and moved them all to Australia. I’m sure they would have been told people will unsub on mass because they dont want to play with high lag or possibly in another country.

Honeslty, I really do believe EA lost more revenue than they expected from the closures and when you compare the cost of running one server vs the loss of that sort of revenue, it also means they lost profit they could have been making. Even if the server only made 10% profit (which is low balling it in the extreme), it’s better than no profit at all.

Sorry if this post isn’t as coherent as my earlier ones, it’s 6:14am here and I’ve not slept yet, so I’m probably rambling, I’ll get some sleep and see if I need to edit this when I wake up.

Edited May 19, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[Yeldah_]

I

 

A west coast server would be great but this is really a dead horse. It's not happening.

 

It is not a dead horse and we are not giving up.

[Yeldah_]

Not enough players, if it was profitable for EA/Bioware to have a west coast server they would do it, but it's not. So if you really want a west coast server, recruit more players from the region. It's hardly unreasonable, Bioware is a business, not a charity.

 

How are you supposed to recruit players from a region that Electronic Arts has turned their backs on and gets crappy service? There needs to be an incentive for people from the APAC region to return. I would be prepared to bet that a west coast server would provide this.

[Nightblazer]

Instead of two east coast servers it would have been nice to have one west coast and one east coast.

[TrixxieTriss]

How are you supposed to recruit players from a region that Electronic Arts has turned their backs on and gets crappy service? There needs to be an incentive for people from the APAC region to return. I would be prepared to bet that a west coast server would provide this.

 

I think it’s too late for that. There is a lot of bad feelings towards EA regarding their continued treatment of the APAC region and not just with swtor. EA don’t see the Asia Pacific as their target market and treat us like second class citizens and we all know it or have come to realise it.

The large majority of APAC players left when they closed the APAC servers. They basically cut out Australia, NZ, South East Asia and Central Asia (India) form playing the game with reasonable lag performance.

You really have to question EAs management because the APAC region has many more people than the whole of the American continent, both north and south.

People can argue that there weren’t as many APAC people playing swtor, but whose fault is that? Bioware didn’t even advertise it in the region or make language servers like they did for EU. It wouldn’t have been hard to pick 3 languages for the Asian region, English and two other major ones (I’ll let others decide what they think they could have been).

The potential of the APAC market is massive, but EA won’t invest in it and so they get lip service from most of Asia, which only leaves the English speaking countries like Australia and NZ.

Most of us ANZACs are sick of EAs disregard towards us and are now playing games that offer APAC servers, like Activison/Blizzard do for WoW. Activision has actually realised the potential and is now making real forays into the Asian market.

The only way you would ever get those APAC players back to swtor, even those who were previously playing on the west coast, would be to give us APAC servers. Anything else might get a few back, but not even close to the amount of people you are suggesting who left over the move to the east coast.

A west coast server won’t have any affect on APAC people’s apathy or even hate for EA.

It would be very ineteresting to see all of EAs active numbers of APAC players on all their PC titles because we don’t have EA servers. I would go so far as to bet the percentage would be lower than other companies who provide APAC servers and therefore, EA make much less money from our region.

EA are really behind the times in this regard because Electronic entertainment is rising around the world and is now rivaling or surpassing the old entertainment media. Even if you remove Australia and NZ, Asia as a region is more populated than the US, Canada and EU combined.

Even Australia has nearly doubled our population in the last 20 years and it’s only accelerating. We are growing faster than the US.

[Yeldah_]

I think it’s too late for that. There is a lot of bad feelings towards EA regarding their continued treatment of the APAC region and not just with swtor. EA don’t see the Asia Pacific as their target market and treat us like second class citizens and we all know it or have come to realise it.

The large majority of APAC players left when they closed the APAC servers. They basically cut out Australia, NZ, South East Asia and Central Asia (India) form playing the game with reasonable lag performance.

You really have to question EAs management because the APAC region has many more people than the whole of the American continent, both north and south.

People can argue that there weren’t as many APAC people playing swtor, but whose fault is that? Bioware didn’t even advertise it in the region or make language servers like they did for EU. It wouldn’t have been hard to pick 3 languages for the Asian region, English and two other major ones (I’ll let others decide what they think they could have been).

The potential of the APAC market is massive, but EA won’t invest in it and so they get lip service from most of Asia, which only leaves the English speaking countries like Australia and NZ.

Most of us ANZACs are sick of EAs disregard towards us and are now playing games that offer APAC servers, like Activison/Blizzard do for WoW. Activision has actually realised the potential and is now making real forays into the Asian market.

The only way you would ever get those APAC players back to swtor, even those who were previously playing on the west coast, would be to give us APAC servers. Anything else might get a few back, but not even close to the amount of people you are suggesting who left over the move to the east coast.

A west coast server won’t have any affect on APAC people’s apathy or even hate for EA.

It would be very ineteresting to see all of EAs active numbers of APAC players on all their PC titles because we don’t have EA servers. I would go so far as to bet the percentage would be lower than other companies who provide APAC servers and therefore, EA make much less money from our region.

EA are really behind the times in this regard because Electronic entertainment is rising around the world and is now rivaling or surpassing the old entertainment media. Even if you remove Australia and NZ, Asia as a region is more populated than the US, Canada and EU combined.

Even Australia has nearly doubled our population in the last 20 years and it’s only accelerating. We are growing faster than the US.

 

No Trixxie I do not think it is too late. All it takes is for someone in Electronic Arts (EA) or Bio-ware to realize that there is an untapped market in the Asia Pacific region and potential for this game to expand. However EA and Bio-ware are going to have to take the first step and put the infrastructure (servers) in place.

 

However I think we are losing track of the original post here. OP said there should at least be a West Coast server (Satele) instead of having two on the east coast which is perfectly sensible. But yes you are correct having two servers one on each coast + ONE server for the APAC region would make perfect sense.

[TrixxieTriss]

No Trixxie I do not think it is too late. All it takes is for someone in Electronic Arts (EA) or Bio-ware to realize that there is an untapped market in the Asia Pacific region and potential for this game to expand. However EA and Bio-ware are going to have to take the first step and put the infrastructure (servers) in place.

 

However I think we are losing track of the original post here. OP said there should at least be a West Coast server (Satele) instead of having two on the east coast which is perfectly sensible. But yes you are correct having two servers one on each coast + ONE server for the APAC region would make perfect sense.

 

I don’t think a West coast server for the game has enough interest for those APAC players who left to come back. There would need to be another big incentive before they are likely to give Bioware another chance. Especially when you consider that players are still abandoning the game because of other mistakes. There is a lot written about all these mistakes on the forums and social media, that people who have left (not just APAC) see little reason to come back and be disappointed,

As more people leave the game, because let’s be serious for a minute, player retention is low and sliding. Which means at some point, they will have to merge Satele and Star Forge. Why would APAC players not think they would then merge your proposed west coast server back to the east coast to have one server?

People just aren’t going to give Bioware the benefit of the doubt to be sucked into that sort of situation.

The game is in its sunset years, they are trying to reduce costs, not increase them. Their next step will be to merge the two US servers and possibly even merge the EU servers over to that one remaining US server.

I would like nothing more than Bioware to reboot the game with a new engine and a massive boost in resources, content and new APAC servers. But I’m realistic, EA will never do that and if they don’t invest the money to reboot the game, it makes no business sense to add APAC servers.

Not having a west coast server is a cost reducing move, EA is controlled by accountants and will not spend $ to make money like most companies do. Instead they cut costs to maximise the profit percentage, which is why they closed the APAC servers instead of making one super server.

[xordevoreaux]

At this point, with the connection issues, I'd petition for any server.

[Akevv]

Maybe split the difference and put the "West Coast" server in Hawaii? I think putting both US servers on the East Coast was just about money. Sometimes, you've got to spend money to get more money.

 

Everything they're doing right now is eerily reminiscent of how Galaxies went down. Those devs weren't afraid to trash their existing base, because it was an experiment to them. We all know that Anthem is coming. They've commented that the new tools are for a "unified experience". Pretty sure someone has convinced management that Anthem is going to get customers from here. I wouldn't touch Anthem if I were paid to play it. its a terrible miscalculation, but it seems like that's whats up.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Akevv

[HungryPajama]

/signed

 

plz bring back apac players

[Andryah]

How are you supposed to recruit players from a region that Electronic Arts has turned their backs on and gets crappy service? There needs to be an incentive for people from the APAC region to return. I would be prepared to bet that a west coast server would provide this.

 

How many western gaming studios actually have localized servers in APAC (set aside the Asian grinders, from Asian studios for the moment, as that is a separate discussion entirely) ? Now ask yourself why so few studios localize in APAC... because clearly there is a reason for it.

 

I'm honestly surprised that EA actually tried to do so with SWTOR back at launch. And in hindsight.. I think they regret it and will very likely never do so again..... regardless of what game they are releasing that uses servers for player grouping. We had over 100 servers (albeit small capacity servers at that time) in the US and a similar number in EU at launch, and three servers in APAC. THREE... and those three largely followed the same downward population spirals as those 100+ servers in the US did.... to the point where two were dead and one was limping along when the plug got pulled.

 

And once again.... please note: I personally feel studios should provide localized servers in APAC, because electrons can only travel so fast across fiber or wire.. and the Pacific is a damn big ocean and a long distance to travel ... yet the fact that they don't appear to commercially viable is a valid business reason not to do so.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Andryah

[xordevoreaux]

Maybe split the difference and put the "West Coast" server in Hawaii? I think putting both US servers on the East Coast was just about money. Sometimes, you've got to spend money to get more money.

 

Everything they're doing right now is eerily reminiscent of how Galaxies went down. Those devs weren't afraid to trash their existing base, because it was an experiment to them. We all know that Anthem is coming. They've commented that the new tools are for a "unified experience". Pretty sure someone has convinced management that Anthem is going to get customers from here. I wouldn't touch Anthem if I were paid to play it. its a terrible miscalculation, but it seems like that's whats up.

 

I agree with you on many levels with that statement.

 

I watched while SWG, Matrix, Vanguard, Archlord, Warhammer Online all died. Some ended abruptly without a lot of fanfare, some had pre-announced end-of-world events over a month ahead of time (Matrix).

 

There's one thing with SWTOR (and SWG) in that this software house (Sony for SWG and EA for SWTOR) doesn't own the material they're working with. Never did.

 

EA is renting it, basically, and there's a lot of other software houses out there ready to drop serious money to move into that rental space. I suspect one already has, and we're just riding the SWTOR wave to its very SWG-ish conclusion.

 

With the server merges (and the lie of omission about the server merges regarding a west coast server), and the re-deployment, to use a term, of employees to work on Anthem, I suspect EA decided a long time ago to avoid any attempt to compete with those other software houses after 2023 for the Star Wars IP license.

 

I have really come to believe that EA just is not going to bother trying to compete in the market for Star Wars content when the time comes. Anthem shows how they're going to spend their money from now on.

 

They've already committed resources to Anthem into 2019, and there's no whisper of any development on SWTOR extending into that same time frame. We get 30-90 day snippets on SWTOR at best. That's the farthest they can see ahead without knowing when the plug will really get pulled, 2023's contract date with Disney notwithstanding.

 

So...we're coasting to an inevitable finish, just like we did with SWG.

 

Don't bother stressing whether anything will replace SWTOR once SWTOR is dead.

Take SWTOR for what it is: a product whose life cycle was on borrowed time to begin with and one that will eventually come to its natural conclusion and be shelved.

 

And we, as the consumers of a product that will one day go away...can enjoy it while it lasts.

Once we can log in.

Edited May 21, 2018 by xordevoreaux

[TrixxieTriss]

How many western gaming studios actually have localized servers in APAC (set aside the Asian grinders, from Asian studios for the moment, as that is a separate discussion entirely) ? Now ask yourself why so few studios localize in APAC... because clearly there is a reason for it.

 

I'm honestly surprised that EA actually tried to do so with SWTOR back at launch. And in hindsight.. I think they regret it and will very likely never do so again..... regardless of what game they are releasing that uses servers for player grouping. We had over 100 servers (albeit small capacity servers at that time) in the US and a similar number in EU at launch, and three servers in APAC. THREE... and those three largely followed the same downward population spirals as those 100+ servers in the US did.... to the point where two were dead and one was limping along when the plug got pulled.

 

And once again.... please note: I personally feel studios should provide localized servers in APAC, because electrons can only travel so fast across fiber or wire.. and the Pacific is a damn big ocean and a long distance to travel ... yet the fact that they don't appear to commercially viable is a valid business reason not to do so.

 

Blizzard and Activion have dedicated servers in Asia Pacfic on a few different games. I think there maybe some smaller studios starting to do the same. As EA pulls away from the region, others are stepping into the void they leave.

 

We only got 3 servers at launch because I honestly believe EA were only targeting English speaking countries and those who can speak English through Asia. Basically they were targeting Australia and NZ only, which is a huge mistake IMO when you consider how many non English speaking people there are in the region.

 

The world has fanatical Stars Wars fans all over, it is just as big in Asia as everywhere else. Bioware ignoring Asia is close to ignoring one third to half the planets potential player base.

I would imagine if they’d made 4 language versions of the game for Asia, 1 Chinese, 1 Japanese, 1 Korean and 1 English, they would have been highly successful and probably would have been able to support 3 or more servers for each of the non English versions.

 

From a business perspective, I think a lot of Western Developers, especially EA, are too focused on just NA and EU. So the Asian developers have free reign and mainly compete against each other with obscure IPs that most Westerners have never heard of. The exception are games like FFXIV. The Asian market is now expanding faster into the west, than the west into the east.

 

At the rate China’s influence is growing in the region, we’ll all be speaking Chinese in 100 years anyway 😳.

Edited May 22, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

I agree with you on many levels with that statement.

 

I watched while SWG, Matrix, Vanguard, Archlord, Warhammer Online all died. Some ended abruptly without a lot of fanfare, some had pre-announced end-of-world events over a month ahead of time (Matrix).

 

There's one thing with SWTOR (and SWG) in that this software house (Sony for SWG and EA for SWTOR) doesn't own the material they're working with. Never did.

 

EA is renting it, basically, and there's a lot of other software houses out there ready to drop serious money to move into that rental space. I suspect one already has, and we're just riding the SWTOR wave to its very SWG-ish conclusion.

 

With the server merges (and the lie of omission about the server merges regarding a west coast server), and the re-deployment, to use a term, of employees to work on Anthem, I suspect EA decided a long time ago to avoid any attempt to compete with those other software houses after 2023 for the Star Wars IP license.

 

I have really come to believe that EA just is not going to bother trying to compete in the market for Star Wars content when the time comes. Anthem shows how they're going to spend their money from now on.

 

They've already committed resources to Anthem into 2019, and there's no whisper of any development on SWTOR extending into that same time frame. We get 30-90 day snippets on SWTOR at best. That's the farthest they can see ahead without knowing when the plug will really get pulled, 2023's contract date with Disney notwithstanding.

 

So...we're coasting to an inevitable finish, just like we did with SWG.

 

Don't bother stressing whether anything will replace SWTOR once SWTOR is dead.

Take SWTOR for what it is: a product whose life cycle was on borrowed time to begin with and one that will eventually come to its natural conclusion and be shelved.

 

And we, as the consumers of a product that will one day go away...can enjoy it while it lasts.

Once we can log in.

 

Good post.