Commanding Legacy and mirror classes

[PennyAnn]

Thanks for this. The situation is simply inacceptable, and we're already loosing players due to this already!

 

Considering of what you communicated before and how it really works, I propose the following changes to the perk in a hotfix (read within the next week, not in a month or two!):

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +100%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +100%

This will ensure that everyone gets their promised +100% and actually make the perk really useful by going up to a fun +400% CXP (let's face it, 100% is still peanuts with the low CXP payouts for quests, etc.) for those that invest the time to grind up all classes. Still not ideal, as ideally you would get the bonus per character, but I think it's a good compromise that would show goodwill on your part, make players happy,and encourage them to play more.

^^

Yes, hotfix! Immediately. Do this for the next time the servers have any down time at all.

 

Before you gulp at the +400% CXP boost, remember that the main problem with this "perk" is that it affects so few people. So the likelihood of +400% CXP is the same likelihood as someone actually receiving a 100% boost right now. Not very high at all. And now that you've nerfed CXP for dailies into the ground, even a 400% increase in CXP for most things is not even half of what we were getting for a single daily mission on Yavin, or Oricon.

 

This is an olive branch, and a way to encourage people to level a variety of classes. What you are doing now is the opposite of that - it's punishing people for NOT playing a variety of classes. They are the ones paying their subscription, they should be able to play whatever they want. The grind to CR300 on a character that you enjoy playing is lengthy enough... let us do it with whatever class will make it more bearable and perhaps even... enjoyable?

[omaan]

Hey folks,

 

I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works. Every time you hit Command Rank 300 on one of the mirrored base Classes (more on that in a sec) you get a 25% bonus to the base value for CXP gains. Since there are four sets of mirrors, you can gain four stacks of this buff, up to a total of 100%. It looks like this:

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +25%

 

Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didn’t) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration. The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors). As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didn’t realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasn’t caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, that’s on me.

 

The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Well done Eric, your devs just failed the game AGAIN. Such stupid idea never should have lived. It is just beyond comprehension! All classes are equal! You are just trying to find another way to force us to grind more

[Tsillah]

As you pointed out this kind of thing keeps happening over and over again at some point it stops being coincidence and starts being intentional. At this point I’m strongly starting to believe they are intentionally trying to upset their remaining player base.

 

I have to refer to Hanlon's Razer here which says:

 

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

 

I do not believe there is a grand evil design behind things here. I do think they make a lot of avoidable mistakes. Of course, the end result is pretty much the same.

 

A saying that comes to mind as well is:

 

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

 

I do believe they intend to do a lot of good things but intent doesn't make the result. For example, I really believe they intended to bring something fun to the table with the Iokath dailies. But the intent to do something new backfired. So intent is not enough.

 

You see, when KotFE was out we already got to try the clunky walker controls that made the chapters with walker parts a lot less fun for me. Later times where walkers were used were no better. I think they remember people asking for vehicle battles, but man, the controls sucks, mostly because they are so sluggish. It doesn't feel fun. So why continue in that line? It doesn't seem rocket science...and yet...

[DarthEnrique]

I think at this point Galatic Command is what is going to kill off the remaining player base, some may stay loyal regardless, but I doubt it’ll be enough to keep this game afloat. Galatic Command was a despised product well before its release because as many of us said, when we heard our gear would be coming out of RNG crates, this caused an uproar cause the RNG in this game is awful and that’s actually facts based on their crappy RNG Cartel Packs, its grinding, thats ll this is is nothing but crap grinding for hardly anything and even after all the complaining what they do give PVP a boost and made it a little easier for pvpers to get top tier gear with UCs that we’re exclusive to them.

 

I am almost at the max on Command Tokens and why? Because I have no use for them, I don’t PVP enough because I find pvp to be toxic in this game, so I avoid it as much as possible, now we got to wait to get them Legacy bound AND available when disintegrating and I doubt PVErs will get a heck of lot even if they disintegrate everything its going to be an unnecessary and long grind as usual with almost every aspect in this game. It’s getting too much. Top good gear SHOULD NOT be the HARDEST thing to obtain, yet that’s all it ever is, I wish they would just go back to the credits only currency and let us buy gear with credits, done and over, no hassles other then grinding to get the credits.

Edited October 11, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[NeoBlakkrstal]

If someone has 0 characters to 300, but purchased this perk (before this update it was just a flat 25%) do they lose the 25% they already paid for?

 

The original perk was only available to a toon that had already reached lvl 300 in Command rank, so your question is moot. This is not the Legacy perk on the main legacy perks page, it is the perk listed under Other on the left hand pane we are talking about here. I believe that is where your confusion originates from. The new perk bestows an additional 25% for each original class toon that also reaches lvl 300. Thus, in order to receive the full 100% bonus, you must have 1 of each class type reach lvl 300. Knight/Warrior, Inquisitor/Consular, Bounty Hunter/Smuggler, Agent/Trooper. I realize this is redundant, given that this has been answered numerous times throughout this thread, but I wanted to throw it out there again, ad nauseum.

[NeoBlakkrstal]

^^

Before you gulp at the +400% CXP boost, remember that the main problem with this "perk" is that it affects so few people. So the likelihood of +400% CXP is the same likelihood as someone actually receiving a 100% boost right now. Not very high at all.

 

I have 100% right now. I have 9 toons at lvl 300. 2 Warriors, 2 Inquisitors, 2 Agents, a Bounty Hunter, a Consular, and a Trooper. 1 of each of the class types, plus a few duplicates. So you see, it is doable. The real issue I have with the perk, is that it only effects characters who are NOT Tier 4. The Tier 4 grind is horrible. The drop rate for Tier appropriate gear is so low as to be near non-existant. The least they could do is make this perk applicable to all tiers.

[Tsillah]

I have 100% right now. I have 9 toons at lvl 300. 2 Warriors, 2 Inquisitors, 2 Agents, a Bounty Hunter, a Consular, and a Trooper. 1 of each of the class types, plus a few duplicates. So you see, it is doable. The real issue I have with the perk, is that it only effects characters who are NOT Tier 4. The Tier 4 grind is horrible. The drop rate for Tier appropriate gear is so low as to be near non-existant. The least they could do is make this perk applicable to all tiers.

 

It's definitely doable but leveling something that doesn't give actual benefits till you reach 300 is just annoying and discouraging really.

[Glzmo]

By the way, the perk seems to be bugged right now.

I have Knight, Consular and Smuggler at 300. I have purchased the Commanding Legacy Perk (before 5.5). This means I should get a 75% Bonus to all CXP. With a below-300-Command-Rank-character (no CXP buffs, no light/dakr bonus, no "Improved Command Experience" perks), I'm getting 206 CXP for a daily quest (you said was now supposedly 75CXP without any buffs), including double CXP. This isn't right.

You get 75 CXP for a daily quest now. From the perk, I should get an additional 75*0.75 = 56.25 CXP. Double that and it should be: [75 + (75*0.75)]*2 = 262.5 CXP

 

Is: 206 CXP

Should be with 3 classes at 300: 262.5 CXP

It's missing 56.5 CXP, which is around the bonus the perk should give me with 3 classes at 300. So there is definitely something fishy going on here besides the fast one you guys pulled on us.

 

Did you log in all your characters at 300? I think the counter they are currently using is tied to the achievements, and I had to log in each 300 to get those achievements.

I did, yes. They all registered under Achievements, but the bonus is failing to apply correctly.

Do you have only Republic characters at 300 like I do, or do you have a mix or just Imperials? I'm wondering whether only the Republic side could be bugged in this matter, as such things have happened before.

 

I should probably also mention that I have a Guardian, a Sentinel, a Sage, a Shadow a Scoundrel and a Gunslinger at Command Rank 300, so 6 Characters, but only three unique classes (sadly haven't gotten to start the Troopers' CXP grind yet or Imperial Classes, for that matter - if I had known how the bonus for the expensive perk that broke my bank was calculated, I would have gone with Commando or Vanguard instead of one of the others). Perhaps they cancel each other out for some reason?

 

Is the CXP bonus from the perk working fine for everyone else? Could you perhaps share whether it does or not and which classes you have at Command Rank 300 so we could perhaps find a common denominator?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Glzmo

[Inspiri]

Hey folks,

 

I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works. Every time you hit Command Rank 300 on one of the mirrored base Classes (more on that in a sec) you get a 25% bonus to the base value for CXP gains. Since there are four sets of mirrors, you can gain four stacks of this buff, up to a total of 100%. It looks like this:

• Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +25%
  
• Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +25%

Thanks!

-eric

 

So if you have a Trooper and a Bounty Hunter at rank 300, you still only get 25% bonus?

[Tsillah]

So if you have a Trooper and a Bounty Hunter at rank 300, you still only get 25% bonus?

 

Yep, I have the same issue with my Sorc and Sage

[Costello]

Lets not pretend the devs care. They don't and for good reason, anyone that has 4 characters at rank 300 has already invested an incredible amount of time into the grind without the perk, what does anyone here think someone who has 4 characters at 300 Galactic Command is going to quit over this, they aren't. They sure as hell ain't going to knowing some punk with a level 12 character and subscription can then take their name. So in all honesty getting upset or raging is about as pointless as when the players character rages about betrayal in the story, they don't do anything about it and nor will people effected by this.

 

Likewise lets not pretend we are making these posts because we want to highlight the deception so it never happens again. It will happen again, its happened plenty of times in the past and people got annoyed the devs ignored the thread for a couple of days and it dropped off the front page and was forgotten. And the devs know it, they can keep lying to people and nothing will change, hell there will probably still people people claiming that the devs really care and Keiths a player too so knows what its like. Keith supposedly has 9 characters to rank 300, I don't know if his experience is the same as many peoples here (possibly some that fall into the first paragraph as far too invested to ever quit). So we can see his preferred play style with the move to group content, he holds that the average player can invest time looking for a group and then can invest the time to complete the exercise or can ensure they will always be free at guild raid times to be there etc. Where as Ben seemed to have a more organic play style where you logged on when you could and jumped into a 15 min uprising or played solo content allowing you to break off at any time.

 

Personally as I get older and work and home life take over I preferred Ben's mode of thought, least of all that I invest what 1200 hours to grind for characters to 300 to then start getting a gear grind for tier 4 or another character through Galactic Command.

[PhantomWarlock]

I did, yes. They all registered under Achievements, but the bonus is failing to apply correctly.

Do you have only Republic characters at 300 like I do, or do you have a mix or just Imperials? I'm wondering whether only the Republic side could be bugged in this matter, as such things have happened before.

 

I should probably also mention that I have a Guardian, a Sentinel, a Sage, a Shadow a Scoundrel and a Gunslinger at Command Rank 300, so 6 Characters, but only three unique classes (sadly haven't gotten to start the Troopers' CXP grind yet or Imperial Classes, for that matter - if I had known how the bonus for the expensive perk that broke my bank was calculated, I would have gone with Commando or Vanguard instead of one of the others). Perhaps they cancel each other out for some reason?

 

Is the CXP bonus from the perk working fine for everyone else? Could you perhaps share whether it does or not and which classes you have at Command Rank 300 so we could perhaps find a common denominator?

 

 

The bonuses are additive.

 

So (2 + 0.75) * 75 CXP = 2.75 * 75 CXP = 206.25 CXP --> 206 CXP

 

 

instead of multiplicative like you thought [75 CXP + (75 CXP * 0.75)] * 2 = 1.75 * 2 * 75 CXP = 262.5 CXP.

Edited October 11, 2017 by PhantomWarlock

[raverbane]

This doesn't impact me directly because I saw the lunacy of Command Crates back when they were in beta and never hopped on that train. It does affect me because this will be the last straw for alot of players and a shrinking player base is a bad thing for everyone.

 

we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

 

Thanks!

-eric

 

And, because the devs screwed up, this is your reply to so many players that spent hours and hours grinding out CXP while it was boosted for absolutely nothing because they weren't using the correct classes? This needs to be made right NOW. Not a month or two from now.

 

I have to wonder if there is someone in management of Bioware that really wants a career change. But, is contractually stuck in the SWTOR team and can only get out if the game fails...

Edited October 11, 2017 by raverbane

[Anzel]

I'm left speechless tbh...there's no way this is okay. We were told one thing, given another...I am beyond annoyed right now.

 

I am as well. Even at 200% or 300% my mind is numb thinking about 20 alts. Heck, my mind is numb thinking about 8 alts.

[Quraswren]

I may have missed this but I haven't read the whole thread.

 

How do we know if we get the 100% bonus? Can it be seen anywhere as confirmation or it's just buy perk + track your "Commanding class" achievements?

 

Look under achievements. I can't remember which one it's under but there is a list of all 8 adv. classes there already. So hearing bioware claim they can't track anything but base classes for that bonus is pretty much bogus but I digress.

 

There is an achievement that tracks all 8 adv classes but it will high light which ones are counted for you to get that buff.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Quraswren

[Sareeph]

So now I've gathered my thoughts, I'm going to reply to your post properly and calmly. There is no confusion Eric, we were specifically informed the perk would work based on how many characters had reached CR300. That's an important distinction to be making here as the time it takes to level one character to 70, and then to gain CR300 is considerable when you factor in the CXP rates that still are not where the players feel they should be.

 

I read technical limitations as developer incompetence. I don't mean that in a horrible way, however when we have multiple achievements that can track class progress, although that is a likely a separate system to legacy perks, I see this as a limitation on developer time being available to implement a legacy perk properly.

 

There is one thing to point out that most seem to be missing here.

 

Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didn’t) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration. The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors). As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didn’t realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasn’t caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, that’s on me.

 

-eric

 

This isn't developer incompetence, it was intentional as stated by Eric. He was just unaware of it.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Sareeph
Clarity

[casirabit]

I have 100% right now. I have 9 toons at lvl 300. 2 Warriors, 2 Inquisitors, 2 Agents, a Bounty Hunter, a Consular, and a Trooper. 1 of each of the class types, plus a few duplicates. So you see, it is doable. The real issue I have with the perk, is that it only effects characters who are NOT Tier 4. The Tier 4 grind is horrible. The drop rate for Tier appropriate gear is so low as to be near non-existant. The least they could do is make this perk applicable to all tiers.

 

While it is doable, the problem most have is the way they communicated it. They never stated it was based on base class, one Smuggler, One Consular, One Knight and One Trooper for the 100% to work. They said any characters you got to 300. In this they failed to communicate or present the facts correctly and that is why people are so upset. They failed to present the facts correctly and if they were in the legal profession and present their case this way it would be thrown out.

[Transcendent]

This isn't developer incompetence, it was intentional as stated by Eric. He was just unaware of it.

 

You seem to have missed the rest of the post, where I broke things down. I didn't miss that part. The part you are quoting from my post doesn't even relate to the part you decided to quote from Eric. I mean you can defend them as much as you like, feel free. I'm not on this occasion going to do so, as much as I think the developers that remain have their work cut out for them.

 

This is about lack of process and lack of communication, a repeat of things that should have been resolved long before now, but somehow keep repeating. Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking them, I'm questioning why this is still occurring, when it should have been resolved if the correct steps were taken in the first place.

[Sareeph]

You seem to have missed the rest of the post, where I broke things down. I didn't miss that part. The part you are quoting from my post doesn't even relate to the part you decided to quote from Eric. I mean you can defend them as much as you like, feel free. I'm not on this occasion going to do so, as much as I think the developers that remain have their work cut out for them.

 

This is about lack of process and lack of communication, a repeat of things that should have been resolved long before now, but somehow keep repeating. Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking them, I'm questioning why this is still occurring, when it should have been resolved if the correct steps were taken in the first place.

 

I wasn't defending. I was just stating what many seem to have missed. The restrictions were intentional yet many seem to gloss over that posting that the developers were incompetent. The developers were spot on.

[Screaming_Ziva]

it wasn’t caught during internal review.

Shocking!

None of this is meant as an excuse

Yet, all this post is is an excuse.

[Transcendent]

I wasn't defending. I was just stating what many seem to have missed. The restrictions were intentional yet many seem to gloss over that posting that the developers were incompetent. The developers were spot on.

 

Then perhaps you may want to edit your quote, because it doesn't relate to the part you posted from Eric, it relates to a different part. To leave it as it is, is misleading.

[Sareeph]

Then perhaps you may want to edit your quote, because it doesn't relate to the part you posted from Eric, it relates to a different part. To leave it as it is, is misleading.

 

Edited for clarity

[ivanhedgehog]

There is one thing to point out that most seem to be missing here.

 

 

 

This isn't developer incompetence, it was intentional as stated by Eric. He was just unaware of it.

 

The incompetence was that 1 week ago Kieth told us in the roadmap that it was 4 characters. he either lied or he doesnt even know what is going into the game.

[kodrac]

Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didn’t) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration. The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors). As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didn’t realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasn’t caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, that’s on me.

 

Allow me to explain something. If you need to be specific with your development team, then you need to be specific with us too. You wouldn't say 'characters' to your developers and expect them to correctly differentiate something else entirely how can you expect us to do that? You guys really need to work on your communication skills.

Edited October 11, 2017 by kodrac

[Transcendent]

Edited for clarity

 

Yeah, you're still misquoting me.