Galactic Command vs Previous SWTOR versions

[Totemdancer]

Maybe they can make CXP legacy-wide and then we can get CXP for posting on the forum?

 

😂😂 if only, some of us would hit 300 CXP in a day

[olagatonjedi]

😂😂 if only, some of us would hit 300 CXP in a day

And that would be broken and unbalanced.

[Quraswren]

😂😂 if only, some of us would hit 300 CXP in a day

 

and it would be worth it.

[Vember]

You are definitely one of the strangest people I've seen on these forums.

 

Basically if it doesn't match your beliefs, you're not interested. He made some good points, you don't care. That's not a discussion.

 

 

Wow if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black.

[Tsillah]

Wow if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black.

It's not, but I do understand that you would say that.

[Totemdancer]

And that would be broken and unbalanced.

 

Lighten up sunshine, it was a joke 😉

[SeCKSEgai]

 

I could go on an on with the comparisons, but I think those alone sum up the inherent benefits of CXP/GC. You get more for doing ANY content that interests you, no matter what zone you choose to revisit. Like ops? Do ops. Like Heroics, do Heroics. Like PvP, do PvP. Like the smell of Hutta, go to Hutta and finish achievements. Want to discover all the areas of every map in the game, go do it. No matter what you do, you'll get a chance at bonus set gear, all the way up to 248 BIS gear. It's pretty obvious that in 5.x, you get more than you ever could have in SWTOR 1.x, 2.x, 3.x, or 4.x. I just don't see where the complaints come from, unless you plan to complain because you are getting free stuff.

 

Feel free to provide feedback or corrections to my findings.

 

There's a bigger picture, and it's pretty bleak.

 

I started sometime in 3.0, and the game was a lot more alive then, with a noticeably larger population. At the time, the best gear available was in Ravs/Tos. As frequent as the runs were then, there were enough people that the group leads could be selective on who they took, often requiring the achievement for a key boss in the op, Underlurker for ToS, Cora for Ravs. The gear difference between 192 vs 198 didn't justify the diffculty (in my eyes). Nonetheless, I learned to be a decent raider out of the simple desire for better gear.

 

Later, HM priority was introduced, And top tier gear once only available to the elite was much more accessible. However, certain pieces were unavailable to the masses as they were locked behind bosses that required a decent level of skill and knowledge. This was my personal motivation to delve into the hard modes.

 

In order to learn the advanced mechanics of these hard modes, I had to find a guild that would be willing to bear with my learning and that of others. It became a social affair really.

 

Sadly, most of them are gone, and I in fact was one of the first to leave, only returning recently, enticed by the double cxp event.

 

I went from 65 to 300 command in about 4 days, just shy of grinding mindlessly. In about two weeks or less, my main was able to equip full 248. But knowing how much time and effort went into just one - the motivation to repeat that process with 24 other alts is not going to happen.

 

While in theory, you're right that you can essentially do any content and earn your way towards bis gear - it's not that simple.

 

The server populace took a hit - when you're on the most populated west coast server and you see a dramatic decline, it says more than enough for the servers that were already ghost towns. We essentially not only had to level to 70, but the command system is leveling all the same just disguised as shiny rewards. I myself had to rely on pvp to complete 5 items for my full 248 as box after box was simply trash or duplicate 244/246s. For someone who avoids pvp altogether, they'll spend ages to get those final pieces as they're more likely to get junk or duplicates the fewer pieces they need.

 

Pvp is affected by the declining populace. Warzones got a ton of balancing issues after 5.0 launched. So not only are there fewer people participating, but less motivation for those left to do so. Galactic star fighter never did become a thing, but as a regular on harby it's like night and day from what it used to be.

 

Before 5.0 launched, DvL was created - essentially to entice people to do the majority of the game's content. For those of us who had already done so, it was a bit insulting to basically repeat everything we'd already been doing over again for the sake of a reward.

 

Ultimately, GC is just more carrot on a stick. Sure, getting my BiS 224s was a very long a drawn out process, but there were plenty of people to share in my joy and misery. Getting my 248s was mostly unpleasant repetition I'd already done hundreds of times before. But unlike before where I had plenty of people to raid or pvp with.... not anymore.

[TUXs]

There's a bigger picture, and it's pretty bleak.

 

I started sometime in 3.0, and the game was a lot more alive then, with a noticeably larger population. At the time, the best gear available was in Ravs/Tos. As frequent as the runs were then, there were enough people that the group leads could be selective on who they took, often requiring the achievement for a key boss in the op, Underlurker for ToS, Cora for Ravs. The gear difference between 192 vs 198 didn't justify the diffculty (in my eyes). Nonetheless, I learned to be a decent raider out of the simple desire for better gear.

 

Later, HM priority was introduced, And top tier gear once only available to the elite was much more accessible. However, certain pieces were unavailable to the masses as they were locked behind bosses that required a decent level of skill and knowledge. This was my personal motivation to delve into the hard modes.

 

In order to learn the advanced mechanics of these hard modes, I had to find a guild that would be willing to bear with my learning and that of others. It became a social affair really.

 

Sadly, most of them are gone, and I in fact was one of the first to leave, only returning recently, enticed by the double cxp event.

 

I went from 65 to 300 command in about 4 days, just shy of grinding mindlessly. In about two weeks or less, my main was able to equip full 248. But knowing how much time and effort went into just one - the motivation to repeat that process with 24 other alts is not going to happen.

 

While in theory, you're right that you can essentially do any content and earn your way towards bis gear - it's not that simple.

 

The server populace took a hit - when you're on the most populated west coast server and you see a dramatic decline, it says more than enough for the servers that were already ghost towns. We essentially not only had to level to 70, but the command system is leveling all the same just disguised as shiny rewards. I myself had to rely on pvp to complete 5 items for my full 248 as box after box was simply trash or duplicate 244/246s. For someone who avoids pvp altogether, they'll spend ages to get those final pieces as they're more likely to get junk or duplicates the fewer pieces they need.

 

Pvp is affected by the declining populace. Warzones got a ton of balancing issues after 5.0 launched. So not only are there fewer people participating, but less motivation for those left to do so. Galactic star fighter never did become a thing, but as a regular on harby it's like night and day from what it used to be.

 

Before 5.0 launched, DvL was created - essentially to entice people to do the majority of the game's content. For those of us who had already done so, it was a bit insulting to basically repeat everything we'd already been doing over again for the sake of a reward.

 

Ultimately, GC is just more carrot on a stick. Sure, getting my BiS 224s was a very long a drawn out process, but there were plenty of people to share in my joy and misery. Getting my 248s was mostly unpleasant repetition I'd already done hundreds of times before. But unlike before where I had plenty of people to raid or pvp with.... not anymore.

Great post!!!

 

I sincerely hope Bioware reads your post...your feelings and experience are not exclusive...they're more common than you think.

[RafaelPeretz]

I'm a PvPer myself.

In 4.0, all my toons (8 at that time) were geared in BiS PvP gear (208's with set bonus + expertise). All I had to do was PvP with em.

 

Now, I have only one toon in full 248 and it is not even BiS for PvP yet, after like 6 months of playing, and I don't need to mention how many KP/ EV HM I had to do to get some missing pieces. Also I have just one set of gear (the dps set) maxed, still grinding the tank set. It become a nightmare to me this GC stuff.

 

Based on that, I completely disagree with you (the post author).

Edited September 12, 2017 by RafaelPeretz

[Totemdancer]

I'm a PvPer myself.

In 4.0, all my toons (8 at that time) were geared in BiS PvP gear (208's with set bonus + expertise). All I had to do was PvP with em.

 

Now, I have only one toon in full 248 and it is not even BiS for PvP yet, after like 6 months of playing, and I don't need to mention how many KP/ EV HM I had to do to get some missing pieces. Also I have just one set of gear (the dps set) maxed, still grinding the tank set. It become a nightmare to me this GC stuff.

 

Based on that, I completely disagree with you (the post author).

 

The thread author isn't a pvper, so doesn't understand.

 

On another note, I've started a thread asking Bioware to add CXP and Unassembled Parts to lowbie pvp to encourage people to lvl alts and to make it easier for those alts to gear when they hit lvl 70. Unfortunately that doesn't really help alts that are already at lvl 70. But I think it would be a positive step in the right direction.

[olagatonjedi]

There's a bigger picture, and it's pretty bleak.

 

I started sometime in 3.0, and the game was a lot more alive then, with a noticeably larger population. At the time, the best gear available was in Ravs/Tos. As frequent as the runs were then, there were enough people that the group leads could be selective on who they took, often requiring the achievement for a key boss in the op, Underlurker for ToS, Cora for Ravs. The gear difference between 192 vs 198 didn't justify the diffculty (in my eyes). Nonetheless, I learned to be a decent raider out of the simple desire for better gear.

 

Later, HM priority was introduced, And top tier gear once only available to the elite was much more accessible. However, certain pieces were unavailable to the masses as they were locked behind bosses that required a decent level of skill and knowledge. This was my personal motivation to delve into the hard modes.

 

In order to learn the advanced mechanics of these hard modes, I had to find a guild that would be willing to bear with my learning and that of others. It became a social affair really.

 

Sadly, most of them are gone, and I in fact was one of the first to leave, only returning recently, enticed by the double cxp event.

 

I went from 65 to 300 command in about 4 days, just shy of grinding mindlessly. In about two weeks or less, my main was able to equip full 248. But knowing how much time and effort went into just one - the motivation to repeat that process with 24 other alts is not going to happen.

 

While in theory, you're right that you can essentially do any content and earn your way towards bis gear - it's not that simple.

 

The server populace took a hit - when you're on the most populated west coast server and you see a dramatic decline, it says more than enough for the servers that were already ghost towns. We essentially not only had to level to 70, but the command system is leveling all the same just disguised as shiny rewards. I myself had to rely on pvp to complete 5 items for my full 248 as box after box was simply trash or duplicate 244/246s. For someone who avoids pvp altogether, they'll spend ages to get those final pieces as they're more likely to get junk or duplicates the fewer pieces they need.

 

Pvp is affected by the declining populace. Warzones got a ton of balancing issues after 5.0 launched. So not only are there fewer people participating, but less motivation for those left to do so. Galactic star fighter never did become a thing, but as a regular on harby it's like night and day from what it used to be.

 

Before 5.0 launched, DvL was created - essentially to entice people to do the majority of the game's content. For those of us who had already done so, it was a bit insulting to basically repeat everything we'd already been doing over again for the sake of a reward.

 

Ultimately, GC is just more carrot on a stick. Sure, getting my BiS 224s was a very long a drawn out process, but there were plenty of people to share in my joy and misery. Getting my 248s was mostly unpleasant repetition I'd already done hundreds of times before. But unlike before where I had plenty of people to raid or pvp with.... not anymore.

I agree with a lot of what you had to say. Your post actually illustrates the need for GC more than anything else.

 

We can debate forever about the extent to which the subscriber base has decreased, and the reason for the decrease (whether by typical MMO life-progression or by certain features/changes to the game, or from the gradual effect of multiple unpopular changes in the game), but the numbers show that populations are decreasing (again, we won't ever be able to pinpoint the exact reason).

 

As you said yourself, with more players participating, guilds/raids/groups can pick and choose which players they want to take with them. With more players participating, the game has the potential to have an abundance of players with top-end gear, and experience to run end-game stuff for BiS gear. With more player participation, you have more guilds to choose from, some of which may have that same willingness to teach.

 

Keep in mind, we have to assume Bioware is primarily trying to cater to their loyal players, not the ones who are on the fence or continue to hold a grudge about past changes that have been made. Every year is a new year of promise in their eyes, and in the eyes of the loyal playerbase.

 

So, the biggest problem an MMO can have is no players in a multiplayer-based game. And what is the most well known way to lose players - no content to participate in because no people are participating. If flashpoints, ops, or pvp matches aren't popping, what is the best way to get more people to participate? Do you keep them segregated or segregate them more? Or do you create a system that encourages (or forces) players to participate in content they normally wouldn't? The latter of course. And yes, I'm certain that they understand that will result in more players leaving, they also understand that it is probably the only thing they can do to keep participation up, regardless of total population - especially on the servers with little population.

 

And since there are less than optimal number of participants in the first place, one way (perhaps the only effective way, while retaining overall balance) to get more and more people to participate in end-game HM/NiM content is to allow them to be as best prepared as possible by allowing them the opportunity to have BIS gear before stepping foot inside the instances. GC crates accomplish this for everyone who chooses not to run all the available content, even if it is much slower to acquire. I mean, you can't just give it away, or there would be no incentive to log in more than a week.

[olagatonjedi]

I'm a PvPer myself.

In 4.0, all my toons (8 at that time) were geared in BiS PvP gear (208's with set bonus + expertise). All I had to do was PvP with em.

 

Now, I have only one toon in full 248 and it is not even BiS for PvP yet, after like 6 months of playing, and I don't need to mention how many KP/ EV HM I had to do to get some missing pieces. Also I have just one set of gear (the dps set) maxed, still grinding the tank set. It become a nightmare to me this GC stuff.

 

Based on that, I completely disagree with you (the post author).

I am a PvPer. Strictly PvP? No.

 

However, I also understand that if I do not play the lottery, I will never win the lottery.

 

If you choose not to participate in anything else, that is your rightful decision, but as I mentioned in my previous post, Bioware is likely looking for players who are willing to participate in all aspects of the game, to help their game thrive. I'm certain that attempting to cater to multiple isolated factions is a lot more difficult than catering to the general population, especially when each aspect of the game affects each other, whether you personally decide to participate or not.

[Suzsi]

The idea of Galactic Command IS nice for people like me who play alone.

The reality is not.

 

Many, many people like more challenging content than I do. When GC started, most, if not all, of these people found that they weren't able to defeat the same content they had done just a few days before, with a gigantic grind before them until they'd be able to do that content again. They were progressing through Nightmare Ops, but to get back to doing that again, they'd have to farm and grind and farm and grind to get their RNG boxes that might or might not give them the gear they needed.

Compare that system to running specific Ops that gave specific loot from specific bosses. Sure, maybe that was a little too fast of a system, but it also enabled Ops teams to fill in vacant spots with alts or new players and quickly bring them up to a suitable level of gear.

 

For someone like me, who plays alone and can't/don't want to play all day, every day, the grind through increasingly slower ranks and doing the same things over and over was just horrible.

Sure, at first the boxes came at a decent rate, and knowing I might eventually get to the mythical rank 300 and possibly end up in the best and awesomest and shiniest gear felt fun.

Except that this was the only way to get gear. Still is for me, actually, because I don't really like PvP and I can't commit to Ops - not that I have much interest in that to start with.

 

So why is gearing up so important, especially for a solo player? The gear itself isn't, not for me at least. But the sense of actually making progress is.

It's the only "new" thing to do. It is the content we have after being done with the mediocre at best story. Farm and grind, farm and grind.

 

And the grind is gigantic. First get to rank 80 to start having a chance for T2. Then 100 more ranks for a chance at T3, then get to 300 for T4, and for just about every rank you need more CXP. And even then, you only get a chance at receiving an item you want in the next box.

Compare this to knowing exactly how many of insert-suitably-currency you need for your next piece of gear.

 

With this enormous grind came, for many players, the feeling of guilt when playing an alt. The game launched with 8 storylines, and a lot of players played all of them at least once. Now, though?

You'd better play your main, and only your main, because you have countless hours of farming and grinding ahead of you before you even get a chance at the gear you want/need. Playing the alt you actually want to play is counterproductive. Even worse if the alt isn't level 70.

Sure, you might argue that playing your alts never helped your main before, either. And that's true. Apart from crafted stuff, of course, which has made me level alts before and in more games than this one. But I never felt guilty before, because the grind was never this bad.

 

And that is, for me, the biggest problem with GC. Under normal circumstances (without the current daily CXP bug and double CXP on top of that), reaching the next rank is way, way too slow.

I don't need the gear. But it's a carrot on a stick - no, for me, as a solo player, it's a carrot cake, glazed and with sprinkles on top. Best in Slot gear is attainable even for me, theoretically, if I only sit my butt down and do the same old content again and again and again and again on the same character again and again and again and again.

Those who actually need the gear to be able to play the content they want have (quite recently, too!) been helped with new currencies and gear drops, but they still have to deal with RNG during the grind. However, since I'm a solo player, I won't speak for them, especially not since I don't know enough about the gearing problems they face - these things have changed a lot since we first got plagued with GC.

 

Anyway, as I said way back in the first few lines, the idea of GC is good. The execution is not.

 

I've always been a solo player and GC has zero impact on my game play?

 

Previously, you could never get those items anyhow as a solo player... so why would I bother with grinding them now? I do what I've always done.

 

If I want to do heroics, I go do heroics.

 

If I wanna repeat my fav chapters. I go repeat my fav chapters.

 

If I wanna take a new character through a class story - I go take a new character through a class story.

 

If I want to jump in to PVP on the very very rare moments I feel like doing so, I do it.

 

If I happen to also get a crate to unlock along the way and it happens to hold an upgraded item, bonus. Ill equip it and keep playing the same way I always did.

 

Why do people suddenly feel the need to grind on things they didn't do before and don't want to do now is beyond me. Go do what you want to do and the item upgrades will just happen as you play.

[Tsillah]

I've always been a solo player and GC has zero impact on my game play?

 

Previously, you could never get those items anyhow as a solo player... so why would I bother with grinding them now? I do what I've always done.

 

If I want to do heroics, I go do heroics.

 

If I wanna repeat my fav chapters. I go repeat my fav chapters.

 

If I wanna take a new character through a class story - I go take a new character through a class story.

 

If I want to jump in to PVP on the very very rare moments I feel like doing so, I do it.

 

If I happen to also get a crate to unlock along the way and it happens to hold an upgraded item, bonus. Ill equip it and keep playing the same way I always did.

 

Why do people suddenly feel the need to grind on things they didn't do before and don't want to do now is beyond me. Go do what you want to do and the item upgrades will just happen as you play.

 

You raise an interesting point. Whenever you make changes, the idea is that you want to solve an issue, a problem if you will. If a large enough part of the community feels they "need" the same gear as a solo player, then GC could be a solution to that issue. But is it an issue? Not for you.

 

Personally, I feel that BW was more focused on their own issue and GC was meant as a way to simplify things for themselves, because it would be a lot simpler to maintain and tweak just one system. But that backfired and we got tokens and currencies coming back into the game.

 

Funnily they added that Iokath currency on top of it that you're supposed to use for those dailies that hardly anyone wants to really do as far as I can tell.

 

BW have always been the type of company that deals in extremes. A lot of their changes are huge changes with very little subtlety. So they overshoot a lot. It seems that if they want to address some issues they just want to shut up the request by going further than needed, which then creates new concerns.

 

I've always felt that they do not really get the impact of certain decisions, but to be fair, I do not have their metrics. I just also don't have a lot of faith in their ability to correctly interpret them.

 

I think that since the launch debacle back in 2011/2012 the release of 5.0 was probably the biggest mistake they made and it really hurt the game. The current gearing system that is the current version of GC is still a convoluted mess.

 

For example we have 4 tiers of gear that each have 4 sub tiers (green, blue, purple, gold). That's sixteen tiers in 4 different colours. This is completely and utterly superfluous. This is aggravated by the fact that you go through the earlier levels too quickly compared to the gear it drops. So by the them you get to tier 2 you have not had a full set of gear dropping. So there is actually no need for 4 sub tiers. Purple and gold would have been enough.

 

However, they also messed up the repair cost and cost of ripping mods. So a gold 236 mod costs about 50k to rip out and a purple 234 costs just under 20k. Now on that side it makes sense. Except a purple 246 which is better than the gold 236 also costs 20k to rip out....huh? So that makes no sense either.

 

I also like being able to do SM oips as of level 50 and get a lot of 236 gear already in preparation of dinging 70. Of course GC doesn't start till 70, so my drops from the GC crates are below the gear I already collected. This is also an annoyance because combined with the 230 vendor, Tier 1 is actually completely useless now in GC.

 

Of course it's not as useless in pvp or for a solo player, but it is for people who raid. Which shows again why one reward system for all doesn't work.

 

I took a long break this year and am back. The gear on my various toons are a mess. I've got a great variety of colours and sub tiers and I've actually started disintegrating certain sub tiers, even if they are a small upgrade, because it's just too many tiers all over the place.

 

Some thing are too complex where they don't need to be and others are too simplified.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Why do people suddenly feel the need to grind on things they didn't do before and don't want to do now is beyond me. Go do what you want to do and the item upgrades will just happen as you play.

 

Because previously we effectively started at tier 3/4 for our gearing that was outside of operations. Thus we could play content that dropped our glowing/radiant crystals (was better under comms but lets go more recent) and get a boost to operations to get better gear or a boost just to more difficult content.

 

To do the equivalent now you need to grind to tier 3/4 just to begin getting the same gear.

 

Now doing operations to gear is better than it was previously but that's not GC.

 

GC replaced the currency that helped people who wanted or needed better gear for more difficult content more quickly and put in a major grindfest to get to the point of just earning the equivalent gear again.

 

Now - if you just play the game and don't want to do difficult content, pvp or what not then it's no biggie I agree. They catered a gearing system to people who by your logic shouldn't even give a **** about the gearing system.

 

They should have just left the currency in place and added a GC ... I mean why not? Gear the quickest and best gear from operations, gear some great gear to help with operations from other difficult content, eventually gear via GC - and leave PVP the hell alone..

 

That would have probably left the largest majority happy but no, they had to **** with quite a lot of players by messing with and increasing the amount of time required to gear.

 

That is the issue as I see it, they could have used GC to make things better for all but instead forced on everyone meaning no matter what there were a lot of players who ended up worse off.

[xRohanx]

This system has many serious problems. Despite the announced availability, no one receives equipment without eternal grind. Solo players are forced to open endless crates and disintegrate the garbage. Raiders are forced to try to win parts of the gear, although many of them deserve to be guaranteed to receive it. This not only annoys, but also kills any desire to play.

[Totemdancer]

This system has many serious problems. Despite the announced availability, no one receives equipment without eternal grind. Solo players are forced to open endless crates and disintegrate the garbage. Raiders are forced to try to win parts of the gear, although many of them deserve to be guaranteed to receive it. This not only annoys, but also kills any desire to play.

 

Agreed.

 

Also for ever person who likes this system, there are a lot more that don't and as you said it kills the desire to play.

So wouldn't it be better to favour those in the majority over the minority if it's going to cause people in the majority to have less desire to play. Especially when those in the minority wouldn't even be affected and wouldn't leave if this gearing system wasn't in place. More people are leaving this game over this system than people joining it because they love it.

They either need to start looking for positive ways to use the CXP system to give people back some fun and desire in the game or they need to radically change it and possibly even remove it.

While ever it stays as it is and causes less desire to play, the worst it is for the games health. I just cannot understand why Bioware don't understand this, their metrics must be telling them that people are leaving in droves.

[olagatonjedi]

Agreed.

 

Also for ever person who likes this system, there are a lot more that don't and as you said it kills the desire to play.

So wouldn't it be better to favour those in the majority over the minority if it's going to cause people in the majority to have less desire to play. Especially when those in the minority wouldn't even be affected and wouldn't leave if this gearing system wasn't in place. [/Quote]

Thats an extremely generalized guess. Without sounding rude, you really have no clue what the majority likes because you have nothing that proves it aside from the people posting for/against on the forums, and your personal encounters online.

 

While ever it stays as it is and causes less desire to play, the worst it is for the games health. I just cannot understand why Bioware don't understand this, their metrics must be telling them that people are leaving in droves.

Or maybe their metrics show the opposite. There are a lot of different metrics that can play a part in their decisions, not just the ones you want to focus on.

[LunaticFringer]

For my part, DvL and Galactic Command were the two biggest reasons I quit subscribing after being a loyal Subscriber from launch. I don't remember exactly when I unsubbed but I'm thinking I haven't been subbed since before Spring. I guess that time frame isn't really too vital but I'm just pointing out I've stayed with the game through a lot of crap, expectations, and... frankly... bad decisions as this player sees it.

 

If I could do one roll back though? I'd still choose to get rid of Galactic Command as it exists now and go straight back to the Crystal System. To me, there wasn't anything complicated about it. Do x tasks, get x kinds of crystals, buy the gear you needed to get you toward end game. Then... gasp... do the end game content to get your raiding gear. It kept guilds running it. The reason, to me, the current system didn't go over so well is because it takes away the point of doing the content. IE... if you no longer *have* to Raid to get the best gear... not that many people are really going to be too enticed to beat the challenge of doing it anymore.

 

I'd go back to something Raph Koster said once about world building and the theory of fun... and it had to do with requiring players to need to interact with each other to improve themselves. This goes right down to the crafting. If you skew things too much toward a soloing system... you remove the need for that grouping, the very thing a mmorpg is suppose to encourage us to do, and wind up with a system that honestly... takes away from the gearing experience.

 

Again, this is all just my opinion. But... what we had prior to them rolling out GC was just about the best way you could do it for a non-sandbox mmorpg.

 

The only thing I would say it could've used is simply naming Armor sets for the Specs they were for rather than constantly taking on new names for them. Example: Smuggler (Healer) Head Piece... was about all they needed to change back then.

 

Obviously, this system seems to be staying now. Which, I would add, is why people should voice concerns when something goes on a Test Server. If you "wait and see" once something goes live... you're often stuck with it. So, never be shy about giving your opinion on things. Just make sure you're trying to be informed-- even if people don't agree with you.

 

I guess they have tweaked it a little... but I'd still go with a full rollback if it were me. Make GC ultimately Cartel Market reward items as an incentive to sub and pair it with making them Legacy versions of those items if in game economics gets brought up.

[Eli_Porter]

The reason, to me, the current system didn't go over so well is because it takes away the point of doing the content. IE... if you no longer *have* to Raid to get the best gear... not that many people are really going to be too enticed to beat the challenge of doing it anymore.

 

That was a problem though. Players didn't like being forced to raid in order to progress their character. Obviously what we have now is almost a polar opposite of that, as (progression) raiding isn't very rewarding outside of achievements and bragging rights. But that can change and they're already buffing the rewards for the hardest content in 5.5.

 

I'd go back to something Raph Koster said once about world building and the theory of fun... and it had to do with requiring players to need to interact with each other to improve themselves. This goes right down to the crafting. If you skew things too much toward a soloing system... you remove the need for that grouping, the very thing a mmorpg is suppose to encourage us to do, and wind up with a system that honestly... takes away from the gearing experience.

 

The problem with "requiring" players to interact is that sometimes players don't feel like interacting while playing their games. They just want a quieter option (preferably a variety of options) of their own which still offers some form of progression. The goal shouldn't be to force players to interact, but to encourage and facilitate it.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Sargrith]

Or maybe their metrics show the opposite. There are a lot of different metrics that can play a part in their decisions, not just the ones you want to focus on.

 

Ben didn't get moved on because their metrics said GC was doing positive things for the game.

 

My feeling is he got moved on because he failed to listen to feed back first from the beta group for 5.0 and later to the player base on a whole once it went live. He didn't react quickly enough and didn't accept that people would really leave in numbers enough to wake his bosses up over a system that was at the very least hated by enough to hurt their bottom line.

 

Funny thing is it really doesn't take a majority to dislike or hate something to mean its bad for the product. As Coke for their numbers regarding how many people hated New Coke. I believe those who truly disliked it was barely 15%. But that 15% not only disliked it, they were very vocal about it and Coke reacted in time to turn a bad situation actually very positive. BW has been extremely slow reacting. Keith been in the big seat a good while now and still we have the same general mess we did when he took over. Inbalanced classes, little to no new content, GC and RNG, bad story writing, significant glitches and bugs maybe more then when he took over, and still no road map to when we will finally get our companions back.

 

Gearing doesn't happen in a void. It isn't just GC that hurt the game so much but it is certainly a big part of what has this game limping along. Turning an MMO into a single player game for two years hurt it, drove the raider community off and now turned our characters into masters of the universe thanks to a really bad plot line. This is a huge mess if you want the game to recover or rebuild we need focus and determination from BW and so far....not so much so. Look part of why GC was such a terrible idea is how clearly at release it favored solo play, it was pretty much telling the community nope we still favor solo over group play in this MMO. This drove the last few hold out raiders even further away. Worse it damage PvP as well because it made gear now a big deal when before with the previous gearing it took a week maybe two to be in BiS PvP gear and you could now complete on even ground and just enjoy no more grind just fun. GC made that a thing of the past. Because unlike PvE in PvP a gear inbalance is a big issue, with bolster not being done right better gear meant better chances to win.

 

They could have tweeked the previous system a bit and made it possible to get better gear through solo and small group play. Making the crystal gear actually set pieces would have done that. You could make various levels of set gear from completely solo to hard core raider. They didn't need to be exactly equal but if you add in ways to craft the items that make them equal that would have been enough. Sure I get the solo 248 set, and its mods and enchants aren't equal to the Raider 248 set but if I can craft new mods and enchants to make them equal that would work.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Thats an extremely generalized guess. Without sounding rude, you really have no clue what the majority likes because you have nothing that proves it aside from the people posting for/against on the forums, and your personal encounters online.

 

Which is exactly 100% more anecdotal evidence suggesting the majority dislike the system the anecdotal evidence you can gather saying the opposite.

 

Or maybe their metrics show the opposite. There are a lot of different metrics that can play a part in their decisions, not just the ones you want to focus on.

 

Any maybe pigs will fly as the saying goes...

[olagatonjedi]

Which is exactly 100% more anecdotal evidence suggesting the majority dislike the system the anecdotal evidence you can gather saying the opposite. :

Which is why Im not claiming anything other than we truly dont know.

[xRohanx]

Thats an extremely generalized guess. Without sounding rude, you really have no clue what the majority likes because you have nothing that proves it aside from the people posting for/against on the forums, and your personal encounters online.

 

 

Or maybe their metrics show the opposite. There are a lot of different metrics that can play a part in their decisions, not just the ones you want to focus on.

Even analyzing forum posts, it is clear that many players do not like the GC system. Only the blind or the naive will not notice this. Almost a year (without two months) is a very long time, and during that time, there were enough claims. RNG system is acceptable in games like Mass Effect 3 multiplayer, in which you can play in short sessions, and all your equipment is available to all your characters. In SWTOR, where players have long-term plans, there must be guaranteed rewards to support this long-term interest and progress. Opportunity is not a reward. Maybe you will get gear, maybe not. Theoretically there is a chance. In practice - you get 10 same pieces or you can not win 1 piece during several raids. But reward is a result. By protecting this system, you confuse the probability with the results, based only on your personal perception and luck.

Edited September 15, 2017 by xRohanx

[IoNonSoEVero]

IMHO it has the potential to be great, but right now...not so much.

 

I LIKE getting stuff when I level up. I also like being able to get high level gear out of it, especially since I don't PvP and thus aren't going to get it elsewhere. I've also gotten some nice pets and outfits.

 

But as everyone has said, the leveling is way too slow, requires endless, mind-numbing grinding, and one has to wade through way too much junk to get to the good stuff in the crates. I never got full sets of gear on Tiers 1-3. Ever. I'd get the same piece over and over again, and it would be green instead of gold.

 

Also, everything's fixed at Level 70, but Level 70 in KOTFE is a cakewalk next to Level 70 on Umbara. They're essentially going to Level 80 or 85 now without indicating it.

Edited September 15, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero