Please put an end to stealth trolling in ranked.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Just please. Stop having ranked pvp a joke. :l This is one of the reasons. Nerf stealth level over time for as long as the character stays in stealth. Stealth trolling is out of hand. Every single round today for me. Edited August 29, 2017 by Alec_Fortescue

[orangenee]

I agree, I like my trolling less hidey.

[MayhemofChaonus]

Don't be so oppressive. Let me and my fellow trolls celebrate our culture of trolling peace! XD

[Glower]

You have a very bad solution to this problem both for PvP and for PvE.

What next? Maybe that 2 seconds stealth from ESO?

[funnypat]

If the last person alive is a stealth and it's a 1 vs 1 you're doing something wrong.

 

Yeah sometimes that happens but certainly not often.

 

If somebody stealthes away heal up and wait for them to come back.

It can be definitely annoying but you can do it only once every 2 min so clearly not a "gamechanger"

 

But if we try to get rid of everything that is annoying now please let's get rid of

 

sorc bubbles

sniper shield

merc reflect

pt harpoon

sent invincible skill

jugg selfheal

 

and when all that is gone we might meet all for a "skill only" game just using autoattacks.

[Schoock]

If the last person alive is a stealth and it's a 1 vs 1 you're doing something wrong.

 

Yeah sometimes that happens but certainly not often.

 

If somebody stealthes away heal up and wait for them to come back.

It can be definitely annoying but you can do it only once every 2 min so clearly not a "gamechanger"

 

But if we try to get rid of everything that is annoying now please let's get rid of

 

sorc bubbles

sniper shield

merc reflect

pt harpoon

sent invincible skill

jugg selfheal

 

and when all that is gone we might meet all for a "skill only" game just using autoattacks.

 

I believe he's talking about those matches where the fight is over in ~2 mins but some stealther vanishes and drags it out till acid.

 

Those things you've listed are fight mechanics, not even comparable to this.

[Evolixe]

Hm, ok, lets see how other games deal with this problem:

 

Oh right, they put a token buff in the map much like the ones in odessen.

Oh but they have drawsbacks from pickup. Increased danage taken, why?

 

 

 

Let's not go about re-inventing the wheel here.

A solution is already on the table and it's a good solution.

 

There are just a couple of things to take in mind so that the problem gets solved,

but no unneccesary collateral damage is done that hurts the stealth classes more than they need to be.

 

For one, people need to want to avoid picking up the buff when they don't need it to find a stealther,

so that the stealther doesn't constantly has to worry someone might have it.

"Why?" Some might wonder.. well, a higher or guaranteed failure rate on combat stealth would be epically detrimental to survivability.

 

So how do we do that? Well, add a small but significant enough damage taken boost to the person that picks it up. Not enough to cause serious harm, but enough to make someone think about picking it up first.

 

To strengthen this point, the buffs need to be inconvieniently placed so that people don't grab it by accident and don't grab it in a group fight when the game is still on.

 

 

Do all of these things correctly and acid strats will be a thing of the past without "making stealth weaker over time" because I could easily give you 10 reasons why that wouldn't work.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Evolixe

[merovejec]

It is very true that for classes like Guardian/Sentinel its a pain to end up in a match vs an Operative. I have had a few matches where even a Merc just stucked it when he realized he stayed alone with an operative to take it on 1vs1. The amount of abilities that class has surpasses any in the game. You have high burst, defensives, self heals, long soft and hard stun, stun from stealth, invicibility roll and much more. Sure A Knight has aoe stun, but what for? He cant selfheal during the stun, just run away, which is no use. Sentinel can stealth but not get out of combat.... there is just nothing to counter. The idea of such classes is to kill the enemy with big burst but with these abilities our damage is of no use.

[DerSchneider]

 

But if we try to get rid of everything that is annoying now please let's get rid of

 

sorc bubbles

sniper shield

merc reflect

pt harpoon

sent invincible skill

jugg selfheal

 

 

You're confusing sometimes "annoying" with "only dcd" and sometimes with "overpowered shyte".

 

It is very true that for classes like Guardian/Sentinel its a pain to end up in a match vs an Operative. I have had a few matches where even a Merc just stucked it when he realized he stayed alone with an operative to take it on 1vs1. The amount of abilities that class has surpasses any in the game. You have high burst, defensives, self heals, long soft and hard stun, stun from stealth, invicibility roll and much more. Sure A Knight has aoe stun, but what for? He cant selfheal during the stun, just run away, which is no use. Sentinel can stealth but not get out of combat.... there is just nothing to counter. The idea of such classes is to kill the enemy with big burst but with these abilities our damage is of no use.

 

Don't you dare to say that operatives are strong in pvp!!! The mighty thuglord - classrep will come for you!

And juggs are OP!

I mean, they were OP for 4 months long time ago, but it's enough! They have to be even more trash, let all operative abilities hit through reflect and penetrate 100% of armor!

Edited August 30, 2017 by DerSchneider

[Totemdancer]

Just please. Stop having ranked pvp a joke. :l This is one of the reasons. Nerf stealth level over time for as long as the character stays in stealth. Stealth trolling is out of hand. Every single round today for me.

 

In GW2 the thief call isn't stealthed the whole time and they have to gauge the best times to use it. Sort of like Maras when they stealth.

They either need to remove the permant black out feature that used to a real ability or they need to limit how long they can stay stealthed. There really is less skill required now because they can stand nearly onto of you. Before you had to time your blackout, now you can just stroll up and tap them on the shoulder without trying.

[merovejec]

Don't you dare to say that operatives are strong in pvp!!! The mighty thuglord - classrep will come for you!

And juggs are OP!

I mean, they were OP for 4 months long time ago, but it's enough! They have to be even more trash, let all operative abilities hit through reflect and penetrate 100% of armor!

 

The thing is that some classes really lack the structure to stand ground. Its silly that a class has to resort to kiting and losing in order to survive and be useful in the wz. Operatives have it all. Sure they can get globalled when stunlocked but that does not happen often. If one gets away the trolling will start. They mostly end up wining the acid.

[Evolixe]

In GW2 the thief call isn't stealthed the whole time and they have to gauge the best times to use it. Sort of like Maras when they stealth.

They either need to remove the permant black out feature that used to a real ability or they need to limit how long they can stay stealthed. There really is less skill required now because they can stand nearly onto of you. Before you had to time your blackout, now you can just stroll up and tap them on the shoulder without trying.

 

Did you read my post at all or are you dancing around the fact on purpose?

 

Guild Wars and Star Wars are 2 entirely different games with different classes and different combat systems.

Their Thief was designed from the ground up around the fact it would't have permanent stealth.

The Assassin, and the Operative were designed from the ground up around the fact that they would.

 

Like I said, a working solution is already out there and gutting stealth itself isn't the answer. Although I understand why some lesser skilled players not playing those classes might think it is.

 

After all, it's the same thing with people that think combat stealth resets are OP.

The same people never even bother to stop anyone from resetting and then go complaining about it being OP

Edited August 30, 2017 by Evolixe

[funnypat]

I believe he's talking about those matches where the fight is over in ~2 mins but some stealther vanishes and drags it out till acid.

 

In order to win the acid he needs to put some damage on all 4 other players, just gather in mid when acid closes in and use your shield abilities combined with aoe - there is no sin/op that has more life than 4 people.

And heals don't work the last few seconds.

 

Usually there is no way somebody can win a 4 vs 1 - except you go afk maybe or try to heal the acid wasting your gcd.

 

-> annoying but nothing more

 

and stealth is a game mechanic too not some magical invincible stuff from the cm, when you are stealthed you can't heal yourself, can't attack or do anything but get away from combat... (and that is a 2 edged sword since you too can heal up as non stealther)

[brishae]

If the last person alive is a stealth and it's a 1 vs 1 you're doing something wrong.

 

Yeah sometimes that happens but certainly not often.

 

If somebody stealthes away heal up and wait for them to come back.

It can be definitely annoying but you can do it only once every 2 min so clearly not a "gamechanger"

 

But if we try to get rid of everything that is annoying now please let's get rid of

 

sorc bubbles

sniper shield

merc reflect

pt harpoon

sent invincible skill

jugg selfheal

 

and when all that is gone we might meet all for a "skill only" game just using autoattacks.

 

nvr thought I'd see the day someone crying about something to do with Powertechs in 5.0. New level of bad.

[supertimtaf]

Well, if there is only one player left in one team, swtor should bypass the time limit and trigger the acid 20sec after this.

This way it gives time to people to still fight, while the closer acid time will prevent any stealther to do these things. Even though I main an assassin, I also hate it when peoples don't wanna unstealth like this. :/

[funnypat]

The operative word was annoying - not op, not gamechanging not crying not anything but annoying... you might want to look it up...

[brishae]

The operative word was annoying - not op, not gamechanging not crying not anything but annoying... you might want to look it up...

 

r u OK?

[Evolixe]

Well, if there is only one player left in one team, swtor should bypass the time limit and trigger the acid 20sec after this.

This way it gives time to people to still fight, while the closer acid time will prevent any stealther to do these things. Even though I main an assassin, I also hate it when peoples don't wanna unstealth like this. :/

 

What? No.. no.

 

Acid is a terrible thing in this game. It decides games not on who's the most deserving of a win, but on who manages to cheese the best. If anything it should be rid of and replaced with a better mechanic alltogether.

Not triggered sooner just to get a game over with.

 

My suggestion, which isn't even a new idea but actually a blatant copy paste from another game, at least makes people still fight for their own win. Esp if its a 1v1 with a stealther vs a nonstealther.. it would make fair game. Eliminating acid strats completely.

[DenariusJay]

the thing is that some classes really lack the structure to stand ground. Its silly that a class has to resort to kiting and losing in order to survive and be useful in the wz. Operatives have it all. Sure they can get globalled when stunlocked but that does not happen often. If one gets away the trolling will start. They mostly end up wining the acid.

 

-"r u throwing the game??"

 

-"no, playing pt"

[Totemdancer]

Did you read my post at all or are you dancing around the fact on purpose?

 

Guild Wars and Star Wars are 2 entirely different games with different classes and different combat systems.

Their Thief was designed from the ground up around the fact it would't have permanent stealth.

The Assassin, and the Operative were designed from the ground up around the fact that they would.

 

Like I said, a working solution is already out there and gutting stealth itself isn't the answer. Although I understand why some lesser skilled players not playing those classes might think it is.

 

After all, it's the same thing with people that think combat stealth resets are OP.

The same people never even bother to stop anyone from resetting and then go complaining about it being OP

 

As someone who mains a Deception Sin, I do have a bit of an idea of what I am talking about and the current total black out system is OP and requires less skill than before 5.0. Even you would have to agree with that,

[Evolixe]

As someone who mains a Deception Sin, I do have a bit of an idea of what I am talking about and the current total black out system is OP and requires less skill than before 5.0. Even you would have to agree with that,

 

"Total Black Out system" Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

 

Permanent stealth isn't inherently overpowered and if you would take the time to actually read my post you would come to the conclusion that it makes sense.

 

Don't take my word for it though, look at the game where it's worked successfully exactly that way for over a decade.

[Totemdancer]

"Total Black Out system" Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

 

Permanent stealth isn't inherently overpowered and if you would take the time to actually read my post you would come to the conclusion that it makes sense.

 

Don't take my word for it though, look at the game where it's worked successfully exactly that way for over a decade.

 

You do remember the ability we used to have before 5.0 called blackout? Now it's permanently on 100% of the time. I know what I'm talking about, the question is do you understand me?

[Evolixe]

You do remember the ability we used to have before 5.0 called blackout? Now it's permanently on 100% of the time. I know what I'm talking about, the question is do you understand me?

 

Why is that OP? We lost Phase Walk for it, I'd argue that to be a negative change to survivability.

[Totemdancer]

Why is that OP? We lost Phase Walk for it, I'd argue that to be a negative change to survivability.

 

If you don't understand why it's OP there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. Phasewalk is a completely different issue and has nothing to do with having blackout on permanently. It was not a needed change and actually reduced the skill lvl in using the class.

Are you saying you think Sins should require less skill to use. The game is continually being dumbed down and people are just accepting of it because it makes it easier for them if they have an OP situation.

[Totemdancer]

I don't understand why it's OP because it isn't.

Phase Walk is a move that improves your odds of surviving a fight by getting you out of it.

Dark Embrace improves the odds by making you take less damage. Both serve the same purpose but they do it in their own way.

 

If it were of my choosing we would still have Phase Walk and not this.

But I don't get to choose.

 

And it would be nice if you could stop making such assumptions.

It makes you look pretty stupid to the people that know me around here.

 

Look, you're entitled to your opinion the same as I am. Saying I look stupid just because I disagree with you on wether it's OP or not is pretty immature.

I'm not sure what assumptions I'm supposed to be making? I'm voicing my opinion on my experiences of playing both forms of Ranked since launch. Just because I don't post stuff all the time or broadcast who I am, doesn't mean I'm any less of a player than you.

It sounds like you think I've been making a personal attack on you and that is so far from my intent. I'm certainly not trying to disparage you, I just feel you are incorrect. I tried to disengage from this arguement by saying if you don't understand my point of view, nothing I say will convince you otherwise. But you've continued to just keep jsaying I'm wrong instead of agreeing to disagree. Now you are trying to insult me because I don't agree with you 🙄

Why do I think permanent blackout is OP? Because it is nearly impossible for others to detect stealths throughout matches. Maybe it's not too over the top OP in ranked, but in objective pvp it is. If we still had 8 man ranked, you would see a lot more people complaining about it than in 4 man ranked. Being able to basically stand on a node/door/line as well as the person guarding it, without actually being detected is just stupid and it's lazy mechanics by the Devs. There is less skill required in a sap cap now than before. It's just not needed and with the old system it meant people actually had to use some tactical skill. If something is faceroll easy like this and it affects other classes more than it should, than to me it's OP. If it required a heap of skill to use, I wouldn't consider it OP.

I also don't think this change to it is in anyway related to the removal of phase walk. It's certainly not a trade off. I think trying to link the two together is a stretch.

I don't expect you to agree with anything I've said. I know you have a firm stance on your position because I've been reading your forum posts for years and I know you rarely change your opinion. Most of the time I even agree with you because you know your S**t.

So now you've got more out of me than I ever intended to post, can we just leave it as you disagree with me and I with you. Can we have a truce?