Pvp a bit out of control?

[Chimerako]

Yes, let's make this game even more 1 dimensional...

 

Off healing, taunting, peeling tools, etc... these are the things that make mmo pvp interesting, if you want one dimensional pvp why are you playing an MMO?

 

Bring back stances

Increase rotational complexity

decrease derp damage from tanks (tanks should be able to do damage, but not as easily as they can currently)

trim back on rotational roots/snares, then trim down the mobility buffs that every class has received; cc and anti-cc needs to tactical, not herp-a-derp I pressed a dps button and slowed you by 70% then you press one of your 10 zillion mobility buffs.

 

I want the depth but what's been happening of late is a bit of ability bloat we've always had a lot of abilities but some have removed the margin of error that used to exist in PvP. I'm a good PVPer and there's too much of a cushion, there used to be a point when someone made a mistake I could kill them as a consequence and now the mechanics are keeping them alive.

 

Snipers used to worry about positioning, but now with all the defenses they really don't have; to Mercs /Commandos used to worry about positioning and now with all the defenses they really don't have to; Sorc used to have to worry about positioning and now with all their abilities they really don't have to.

 

So now many of the classes have these defenses that were built around the premise that they needed extra protection but they really don't anymore. Electronet lol is hilarious it made sense 2 years ago. That is the most Preposterous thing I have ever seen when I'm on a Commando. How can you expect to kill me when I'm in a mobile burst class and I can essentially turn off your defenses.

 

I like the complexity I like Guard and taunts but right now we're ending up where we have no real counter classes so once you have decent healers and everyone's off guarding and off healing you're just kind of stuck there's not any competition anymore. I'm in no way saying that we should remove taunts and Guard from the game but there's no way that eight people in a war zone should be doing over a million heals and a quarter of a million protection. Also take consideration I'm referencing non healers the healers in that match we're still at four or five million and heals by themselves

[Elusive_Thing]

thank goodness bioware clearly does not listen to the incessant crying to have this game dumbed down even further by removing stuff like guard, taunts, and off healing from pvp that goes on in this board

 

since things that are never going to happen are apparently on the table...if you're not looking to some soft matchmaking as the thing that could do more than anything else to improve the warzone experience then you're doing it wrong. even if class balance were good some significant percentage of warzones will continue to be utterly ruined by how many tanks/heals there are and how they're distributed between the teams

This. Quoted so the message won't totally disappear.

[Elusive_Thing]

There is zero --z e r o-- matchmaking in regular PVP. It just takes the groups in queue and smashes them into games and off you go.

 

There is no change bioware could make to PVP that would improve the overall reg pvp experience as much as some light matchmaking like splitting healers between each team one at a time with a limit of 2 per team (one in arenas).

Also, matchmaking would help with some other issues as well. For example, if my guild is running two Imp premades, why are we put against a team of Imperial PUGs instead of the premades being split? Some of the best matches are against one's own guildies and it's certainly massively better than a double premade stomping randoms in a scenario that could easily be solved with the bare minimum of matchmaking.

[Stellarcrusade]

Healer was nerfed WAY TOO MUCH. We need to bring healer 85% back to where it was, which is still a nerf from where it was. Guards have no role in PvP if we nerf their tie to healers. We need to give greater incentive for the pair to work together, not less. We HAVE to leave guard alone.

 

Really, so many terrible players that do not know how to handle a guard/healer combo? I really doubt that people are that dumb. All they are asking for is reward laziness. First they ask to nerf heals, then guard, then every other thing that makes their class anything more than a 1 press button class....

 

Get over it, learn to play.

[Chimerako]

Healer was nerfed WAY TOO MUCH. We need to bring healer 85% back to where it was, which is still a nerf from where it was. Guards have no role in PvP if we nerf their tie to healers. We need to give greater incentive for the pair to work together, not less. We HAVE to leave guard alone.

 

Really, so many terrible players that do not know how to handle a guard/healer combo? I really doubt that people are that dumb. All they are asking for is reward laziness. First they ask to nerf heals, then guard, then every other thing that makes their class anything more than a 1 press button class....

 

Get over it, learn to play.

 

As the dumded the game down the better players made the skill gap bigger. People like the use the L2P statement but it doesn't always apply. In ranked if you had dps classes that could off tank you can't truly pressure heals since the dps just off guards until the skanktank regains his sense. Trying to take out a guarded eng sniper is ridiculous. I'm watching teams needing to focus snipers and Mercs like healers just to kill them.

 

My entire point is that DPS is being minimalized in this current meta. A Healer being guarded by a skanktank on the same team with two engineering sniper is being guarded by assassins starts getting beyond l2p. There is so much CC it's nigh impossible at times to generate the dps necessary to kill certain combos.

[Ashbar]

I think a player who is guarding another player should only give half of the damage if he is in Guard range. (Tank and DD)

The Taunt of a DD should lower the Heal by 25% (In and Output) and its own damage will be reduced by 25% (Cleanable)

 

This would only make guarding by DPS useful in some situations.

The DD Heal taunt makes it possible to kill more people in the group, but he remains as useless in 1: 1 situations

[Foambreaker]

It's because tanks are ruining warzones. Have you ever seen any mmo where tanks could transfer 50% of dps??? In addition to this skank-tanks in swtor are doing pretty big dps. If nothing changes you will see tonns of tanks in warzones, switching guard to whoever receives damage. Such games are always booring, and team without a tank will loose.

 

Seriously this.

[Foambreaker]

Don't spread this nonsense. Guard is a very interesting take on an otherwise largely ignored role in PvP.

The "other" games you talk about offer no place for tanks in arena settings whatsoever.

Bioware found a very nice solution to that.

 

Now either or not 50% is the correct amount is a far more legitimate argument to have.

Although you really should look at healing first before you change stuff there.

 

Of course they don't have a role. Their role in PvE is just to make mindless NPCs attack them.

 

That doesn't work in PvP.

 

50% damage reduction is just plain dumb.

[kissingaiur]

People die in 1 healer, 1 tank , 2 dps games all the time. If that is the case the problem isn't guard. The problem in 8v8 is poor match making which allows there to be mutilple tanks and healer in each reg match without having enough dps to realistically kill them. *that is the problem* not guard.

 

The game is balanced around 1 tank:1 healer not 3 tanks:2 healers.

Edited August 7, 2017 by kissingaiur

[-Solace-]

I want the depth but what's been happening of late is a bit of ability bloat we've always had a lot of abilities but some have removed the margin of error that used to exist in PvP. I'm a good PVPer and there's too much of a cushion, there used to be a point when someone made a mistake I could kill them as a consequence and now the mechanics are keeping them alive.

 

Snipers used to worry about positioning, but now with all the defenses they really don't have; to Mercs /Commandos used to worry about positioning and now with all the defenses they really don't have to; Sorc used to have to worry about positioning and now with all their abilities they really don't have to. So now many of the classes have these defenses that were built around the premise that they needed extra protection but they really don't anymore. Electronet lol is hilarious it made sense 2 years ago. That is the most Preposterous thing I have ever seen when I'm on a Commando. How can you expect to kill me when I'm in a mobile burst class and I can essentially turn off your defenses.

 

I like the complexity I like Guard and taunts but right now we're ending up where we have no real counter classes so once you have decent healers and everyone's off guarding and off healing you're just kind of stuck there's not any competition anymore. I'm in no way saying that we should remove taunts and Guard from the game but there's no way that eight people in a war zone should be doing over a million heals and a quarter of a million protection. Also take consideration I'm referencing non healers the healers in that match we're still at four or five million and heals by themselves

 

Can you please explain to me how sorc dps does not have to worry about positioning as opposed to sniper/merc? Do you really run into the middle of the pack and face tank as a sorc?

Edited August 7, 2017 by -Solace-

[Foambreaker]

People die in 1 healer, 1 tank , 2 dps games all the time. If that is the case the problem isn't guard. The problem in 8v8 is poor match making which allows there to be mutilple tanks and healer in each reg match without having enough dps to realistically kill them. *that is the problem* not guard.

 

The game is balanced around 1 tank:1 healer not 3 tanks:2 healers.

 

lol really? Someone died so guard is ok?

 

/rollseyes

[Evolixe]

Of course they don't have a role. Their role in PvE is just to make mindless NPCs attack them.

 

That doesn't work in PvP.

 

50% damage reduction is just plain dumb.

 

Why, because you say so? At least provide some depth if you are going to start an argument.

Otherwise it isn't an argument at all, it's just bloating your crap for the sake of it.

 

I already said Guard is a fine addition to PvP in making tanks a useful asset in a 4v4 setting.

I also implied... very clearly... that Guard as far as i'm considered doesn't necessarily have to transfer 50% of all damage. Anything at or over 25% it would still be extremely useful; so there is a lot of room for tweaking.

 

 

Just because you think tanks don't belong in PvP doesn't mean they actually don't.

And given your lack of arguments in making that case I think it's best we don't even go there.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Evolixe

[-Bob-]

People think they are better than they are, they get rolled and all of the sudden the game is broken. Every mechanic is pointed out as their disadvantage. The biggest disadvantage that truly exists is matchmaking, out side of that, skill, coordination and overall team work fall on the shoulders of you and your team.

[Foambreaker]

Why....

 

All you have to do is look at the other abilities, they have like 5% damage reduction and in cases where it is more it is TEMPORARY.

 

This is:

Always on

No cooldown

No DR

10x the power of other abilities

 

That it is OP in PvP is a no brainer.

[Evolixe]

All you have to do is look at the other abilities, they have like 5% damage reduction and in cases where it is more it is TEMPORARY.

 

This is:

Always on

No cooldown

No DR

10x the power of other abilities

 

That it is OP in PvP is a no brainer.

 

It's a feature to make a role viable, you can't compare it to a standard ability.

 

It's not like the damage dissapears in thin air either. The damage gets transferred to the tank. Half of it anyway.

If you apply enough pressure you can make a hardswitch for him and global him in a stun.

 

Depends a bit more on you and your team, but I've done it many.. many times.

 

 

What Bioware could, and perhaps should do though, is make Guarded damage non-mitigated.

As such, Guarding would become far more deadly for the Tank and turn into a choice.

It would definitely speed up tank games, and it would award decision making skill far more than Guard does now.

 

 

Not shield-able, not affected by damage reduction cooldowns, not affected by armor.. all that jazz.

Literally take half the damage of the person you guard and not a single point less. Ever.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Evolixe

[Kuvox]

There is no change bioware could make to PVP that would improve the overall reg pvp experience as much as some light matchmaking like splitting healers between each team one at a time with a limit of 2 per team (one in arenas).

 

This kind of soft matchmaking could definitely work and really wouldn't take too much effort to implement as the structure is basically already in the game. This is a great idea. Either it should be implemented after server merges (assuming this happens) or the matchmaking system is suspended when there aren't enough people in queue to fully fill out teams. I have no idea how often the latter would happen as I only play in the evenings on more populated servers (the Harbinger and the Ebon Hawk) when it's not hard to get a WZ pop, but from general comments on these forums it seems like a number of servers are either dead or on their way.

[Foambreaker]

You can't force fit the trinity on PvP, tanking has no place because most people are smarter than an NPC.

 

Tanking in PvP is for people who get emo over pixel death.

[Evolixe]

You can't force fit the trinity on PvP, tanking has no place because most people are smarter than an NPC.

 

Tanking in PvP is for people who get emo over pixel death.

 

Again, no arguments. Just a completely baseless opinion.

 

If you dislike it that much, go play one of those games that doesn't have tanks in PvP.

This one has found a nice solution that may be able to use some tweaking, but is definitely not wrong at the idea of it.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Evolixe

[Foambreaker]

Again, no arguments. Just a completely baseless opinion.

 

If you dislike it that much, go play one of those games that doesn't have tanks in PvP.

This one has found a nice solution that may be able to use some tweaking, but is definitely not wrong at the idea of it.

 

I don't have to argue with you, your opinion doesn't matter to me, I post my opinion for the devs to read.

[yellow_]

This kind of soft matchmaking could definitely work and really wouldn't take too much effort to implement as the structure is basically already in the game. This is a great idea. Either it should be implemented after server merges (assuming this happens) or the matchmaking system is suspended when there aren't enough people in queue to fully fill out teams. I have no idea how often the latter would happen as I only play in the evenings on more populated servers (the Harbinger and the Ebon Hawk) when it's not hard to get a WZ pop, but from general comments on these forums it seems like a number of servers are either dead or on their way.

A timer of sorts to give up on the matchmaking if it is preventing a pop from happening would be necessary; I didn't bring it up specifically for the sake of brevity. How quickly the matchmaker should give up would be a matter of debate of course but I think a conservative, low threshold (at least initially) would be a good starting point. It's an improvement on no matchmaking at all, especially on the active servers where it would likely be able to create a lot of fair games before hitting the threshold without killing PVP on the deadish servers.

 

You can't force fit the trinity on PvP

Bioware can force absolutely anything they want on PVP. And Bioware likes the guard mechanic for tanks. You're completely wasting your breath. Edited August 7, 2017 by yellow_

[Foambreaker]

You can't force fit the trinity on PvP

...

Bioware can force absolutely anything they want on PVP. And Bioware likes the guard mechanic for tanks. You're completely wasting your breath.

 

This thing they cannot force.

 

The ENTIRE basis of the trinity is that the "bad guys" attack the tank.

 

NPCs do that because of coded mechanics.

 

People are not coded, most will not mindlessly beat on a tank.

 

Especially in this game where they are obviously and intentionally coding out the trinity. The only trinity based activities left in the game are Master FP and OPs. Heck in Vet FP it is better to have a comp than a real healer and a tank is just less DPS.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Foambreaker

[yellow_]

"bioware cannot force mechanics on their own game"

 

ok dude, good luck with your quest - you're going to need it

[Foambreaker]

"bioware cannot force mechanics on their own game"

 

ok dude, good luck with your quest - you're going to need it

 

That is of course not what I posted, guess you ran out of viable things to post.

[Storm-Cutter]

I'm a decent player and whats happening to me in solo and grouped is that mathematically based on my dps i know i should switch targets based on what defense is being applied yet there are so many heals and dcds everywhere you just end up dumping pointless dps into nothingness. I dont see how that's enjoyable.

.

 

I'm only average. and I struggle to 'read' the cooldowns, offensive cooldowns, buffs and debuffs in a busy match. - some classes seem to have 15-20 icons up, rapidly changing, being applied, dropping off, being re-applied. - as a DoT spec character, I have to watch my own DoTs on an enemy as well as all this?

 

Before people launch in and tell me to L2P - I've been trying for years. - I just can't remember all those icons swimming in front of my eyes every time I switch targets. - So....Rightly or wrongly, I often just spread DoTs, then select nearest friend and target targets enemy and chip away until the dots wear off....& re-apply - but probably do as much fluff as proper damage.

[Lundorff]

I'm only average. and I struggle to 'read' the cooldowns, offensive cooldowns, buffs and debuffs in a busy match. - some classes seem to have 15-20 icons up, rapidly changing, being applied, dropping off, being re-applied. - as a DoT spec character, I have to watch my own DoTs on an enemy as well as all this?

 

Before people launch in and tell me to L2P - I've been trying for years. - I just can't remember all those icons swimming in front of my eyes every time I switch targets. - So....Rightly or wrongly, I often just spread DoTs, then select nearest friend and target targets enemy and chip away until the dots wear off....& re-apply - but probably do as much fluff as proper damage.

 

Ah yes, me as well. You need to be quasi-autistic to keep track of all the status symbols and only ever do the correct counter.