Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[RvEijndhoven]

I'm an Artificer/Archeologist/Treasure Hunter (well, technically my crew are).

 

When I send my crew to get lvl 1 Power Crystals (Any type of mission) And then use those credits for crafting Might/Resolve 4 Hilts and sell those to a vendor, I gain a modest but positive amount of credits.

 

When I craft hilts above that Tier (namely Tier 1+) and sell those to the vendor, I only lose money, because the sales value of hilts at that level does not equal (not even remotely) the cost of the missions for those materials.

 

Which means that in order to have my crafting finance itself before I reach Max skill and can start selling to lvl 50 players, thus being able to actually make a profit on my crafting, I need to grind the lowest tier for two skills.

 

Why do I mention all of this?

 

Because inherent in this is the problem with Slicing post nerf and, for that matter, TOR's crafting in general: Crafting before Max Skill is (nearly) useless because you will always, ALWAYS make a loss if you believe Bioware's advertisement about 'not having to do anything for it yourself'. More of a loss, in fact, than if you simply bought equivalent (or often better) items than you could craft from Vendors. Since every planet has Commendations that you can buy items that are usually just as good as what you could craft and more varied too.

 

Unless you are willing to go out into the world and grind nodes like we were told we wouldn't have to, Crafting is done at a loss. Hell, even if you do grind nodes, crafting is done at a loss because you need a Mission skill and Vendor/Mission only 'supplemental materials' for most advanced recipes.

 

This is also where all the ire aimed at Slicing comes from: Pre-nerf, Slicing was the only Crew Skill guaranteed to be profitable pre-lvl 50. Nothing was wrong with Slicing as such, because it didn't bring in nearly as much, relatively speaking, when compared to expenses, as suggested.

But because every other Crew Skill cost money and Slicing didn't, people went 'omg! free money!'.

 

Now, here's how to fix the crafting system:

 

Stop charging credits for the fracking Crew Skill missions already!

 

It already costs time, which we're paying real world money for and if there's one thing TOR does not lack it's money sinks!

 

Want to upgrade skills so they do 5 more DPS? Pay Credits!

Want to ride the free vehicle you got for ordering the CE, so you spend marginally less time traveling between quests? Pay Credits!

Want to repair your gear so it doesn't fall apart on you while doing said quests? Pay Credits!

Want to travel to the next quest area which is only accessible via Taxi? Pay Credits!

 

The problem with the Crafting system in TOR as a whole is that it replaces grinding for materials/recipes/skill with grinding for the in game cash required for you to be able to afford not to grind those things and making a loss on the whole deal all the way.

 

Slicing was the odd duck out, by actually turning a profit, it's sole appeal to anyone being that it produced credits. (The missions it returns aren't that great because... THEY COST CREDITS, no one's going to buy a mission unlock just to pay even more credits for a mission that takes longer than a regular mission, has lower chance of success and ultimately still makes a loss).

 

Bioware should fix this by allowing all Crew Skills to turn a profit from the start, even from selling to vendors, not by making Slicing turn a loss too.

Edited December 29, 2011 by RvEijndhoven

[Raximillian]

So I assume you're running the 41 - 48 missions with 'rich yield', and not the two 49 - 50 ones which would give you skill 340 missions. Correct?

 

They were abundant, and one rich. Just skilled enough to run one rich taking 29 mins, but that one only made 838 creds.

[Pansophist]

I think the nerf is fine. Added more data to the spreadsheet, for lvl 5 lockboxes. Ran 5 missions today, one botched mission, still made 1450 just from missions. Also made about 1800 from lockboxes, and one of the missions gave me a purple investigation (300) item, that the AH says it is worth 3645.

 

So looks ok to me. It really was way overboard before. Just making money out of thin air. No profession should make money just like that, and should depend on supply demand (materials/crafted items) or something.

 

Anyway, I think it's fine. Still useful for mission items, and cybertech schematics, while making a little money on the side, or a lot if you go hunting for safes. So it does take a little work to make money, which is fine.

 

Just curious. What level are you currently in the game?

 

The reason I ask that brings back my original point regarding how I feel about level caps. At level 50, the nerf isn't quite 'fine.' At earlier levels, however, it would seem more justifiable. It turns a small profit (read: very small, more money can now be made via TH...just through missions). However, with a 40k repair bill, we're forced to spend a reasonably large amount of time farming lowbie heroic area spawns for money. The GTN currently is out of whack, everyone is too scared to spend credits, and the popular slicing spots now have 5+ people running around them trying to scrounge for money and the nodes are limited.

 

I'm an Artificer/Archeologist/Treasure Hunter (well, technically my crew are).

 

When I send my crew to get lvl 1 Power Crystals (Any type of mission) And then use those credits for crafting Might/Resolve 4 Hilts and sell those to a vendor, I gain a modest but positive amount of credits.

 

When I craft hilts above that Tier (namely Tier 1+) and sell those to the vendor, I only lose money, because the sales value of hilts at that level does not equal (not even remotely) the cost of the missions for those materials.

 

Which means that in order to have my crafting finance itself before I reach Max skill and can start selling to lvl 50 players, thus being able to actually make a profit on my crafting, I need to grind the lowest tier for two skills.

 

Why do I mention all of this?

 

Because inherent in this is the problem with Slicing post nerf and, for that matter, TOR's crafting in general: Crafting before Max Skill is (nearly) useless because you will always, ALWAYS make a loss if you believe Bioware's advertisement about 'not having to do anything for it yourself'. More of a loss, in fact, than if you simply bought equivalent (or often better) items than you could craft from Vendors. Since every planet has Commendations that you can buy items that are usually just as good as what you could craft and more varied too.

 

Unless you are willing to go out into the world and grind nodes like we were told we wouldn't have to, Crafting is done at a loss. Hell, even if you do grind nodes, crafting is done at a loss because you need a Mission skill and Vendor/Mission only 'supplemental materials' for most advanced recipes.

 

This is also where all the ire aimed at Slicing comes from: Pre-nerf, Slicing was the only Crew Skill guaranteed to be profitable pre-lvl 50. Nothing was wrong with Slicing as such, because it didn't bring in nearly as much, relatively speaking, when compared to expenses, as suggested.

But because every other Crew Skill cost money and Slicing didn't, people went 'omg! free money!'.

 

Now, here's how to fix the crafting system:

 

Stop charging credits for the fracking Crew Skill missions already!

 

It already costs time, which we're paying real world money for and if there's one thing TOR does not lack it's money sinks!

 

Want to upgrade skills so they do 5 more DPS? Pay Credits!

Want to ride the free vehicle you got for ordering the CE, so you spend marginally less time traveling between quests? Pay Credits!

Want to repair your gear so it doesn't fall apart on you while doing said quests? Pay Credits!

Want to travel to the next quest area which is only accessible via Taxi? Pay Credits!

 

The problem with the Crafting system in TOR as a whole is that it replaces grinding for materials/recipes/skill with grinding for the in game cash required for you to be able to afford not to grind those things and making a loss on the whole deal all the way.

 

Slicing was the odd duck out, by actually turning a profit, it's sole appeal to anyone being that it produced credits. (The missions it returns aren't that great because... THEY COST CREDITS, no one's going to buy a mission unlock just to pay even more credits for a mission that takes longer than a regular mission, has lower chance of success and ultimately still makes a loss).

 

Bioware should fix this by allowing all Crew Skills to turn a profit from the start, even from selling to vendors, not by making Slicing turn a loss too.

 

Thank you for this. Not only does it reinforce the opposition to the belief some have that missions should not be profitable, it illuminates an issue many people don't quite grasp. While I don't quite agree with the fix being to eliminate costs from missions, something does need to be done. I don't, however, have a better solution.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Pansophist

[Raximillian]

Just curious. What level are you currently in the game?

 

The reason I ask that brings back my original point regarding how I feel about level caps. At level 50, the nerf isn't quite 'fine.' At earlier levels, however, it would seem more justifiable. It turns a small profit (read: very small, more money can now be made via TH...just through missions). However, with a 40k repair bill, we're forced to spend a reasonably large amount of time farming lowbie heroic area spawns for money. The GTN currently is out of whack, everyone is too scared to spend credits, and the popular slicing spots now have 5+ people running around them trying to scrounge for money and the nodes are limited.

 

I'm lvl 24, and running slicing with the droid companion only. I picked up slicing at lvl 15 and now have 103K creds in my favour. I had 12K creds when I picked up slicing back at 15, so that went up really fast.

[VioletZero]

Just curious. What level are you currently in the game?

 

The reason I ask that brings back my original point regarding how I feel about level caps. At level 50, the nerf isn't quite 'fine.' At earlier levels, however, it would seem more justifiable. It turns a small profit (read: very small, more money can now be made via TH...just through missions). However, with a 40k repair bill, we're forced to spend a reasonably large amount of time farming lowbie heroic area spawns for money. The GTN currently is out of whack, everyone is too scared to spend credits, and the popular slicing spots now have 5+ people running around them trying to scrounge for money and the nodes are limited.

 

Level caps just puts a bandaid on the issue.

 

People will just power level alts to 50 and have all of their alts working on slicing at the same time.

[Pansophist]

I'm lvl 24, and running slicing with the droid companion only. I picked up slicing at lvl 15 and now have 103K creds in my favour. I had 12K creds when I picked up slicing back at 15, so that went up really fast.

 

Thank you for the answer, it reinforces my earlier comments regarding the pre-nerf level disparity and slicing profits.

[VioletZero]

Stop charging credits for the fracking Crew Skill missions already!

 

If there's no cost at all, then it can create an infinite motion which is a very bad thing.

[Engleheart]

9k for me to repair.... wow, yeah glad they took out money making profession they rcreated in put in a cred sink.

[Raximillian]

Thank you for the answer, it reinforces my earlier comments regarding the pre-nerf level disparity and slicing profits.

 

Ok, I re-read your post about the repair costs at lvl 50. They seem to be pretty high. It still does not mean that slicing income should cover those repair costs, because that would just "force" everyone to have slicing, just to make it through.

 

If the repair costs are too high, we should not be asking BW to increase the income from slicing, but lower the repair costs so they are affordable, even without slicing. I think BW is trying not to make slicing a "must have" and just an optional skill like the rest.

 

Just my opinion, I'm not max level yet, but I was able to see that slicing was making too much money at least at my level.

[Pansophist]

9k for me to repair.... wow, yeah glad they took out money making profession they rcreated in put in a cred sink.

 

Just wait, you'll be 5x that once you're outfitted with better gear. And that's not even counting in the fact that none of us are even close to 'best in slot' gear yet. The GTN working smoother would alleviate some of the issue. If it became more accessible and easier to use perhaps we would see more buyers. Then again, everyone's currently scared to spend money due to the slicing nerf.

 

 

Ok, I re-read your post about the repair costs at lvl 50. They seem to be pretty high. It still does not mean that slicing income should cover those repair costs, because that would just "force" everyone to have slicing, just to make it through.

 

If the repair costs are too high, we should not be asking BW to increase the income from slicing, but lower the repair costs so they are affordable, even without slicing. I think BW is trying not to make slicing a "must have" and just an optional skill like the rest.

 

Just my opinion, I'm not max level yet, but I was able to see that slicing was making too much money at least at my level.

 

You hit it spot on Someone previously mentioned that the current repair system / training costs were built based on the beta. Well, in the beta, our characters 'reset' frequently. Picking up slicing to make for an easier time affording the mounts / skill training / bag space was an obvious choice.

 

Then the release came out, and that 'obvious choice' was no longer a short term choice. However, the prices remained.

 

Slicing was not a 'must have' for every character in the guild. However, having several characters with slicing made it practical, because they could foot the bill for others' repair costs and professions. Please note, I do not agree with this. I would rather see the cost system restructured than to have to rely on several people in a guild to continually generate income to operate fluidly.

 

I whole heartedly agree that the prices in general need to be re-evaluated before slicing is addressed. I would like to see the entire crafting system re-evaluated, but that would take a major overhaul and a lot of time.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Pansophist

[Nazras]

I believe my biggest complaint is now as it stands at max skill level in slicing I have sent my companions on missions where they return with green credit boxes and the amount in the box didn't even cover the mission cost. This is not adequate. I have even had grey boxes yield more credits than even the green ones. If you are going to do a nerf to the skill about credits that fine by me but at least improve the bonus chances of getting mission discoveries or even schematics which have also been lower from what I have seen as well. I took the skill in combination with other character crafters in order to obtain the bonus missions and schematics not necessarily to make credits in abundance. Now that being said why should I get a lost of credits on a mission even when my companion returns with a better yield lockbox?

[Volki]

There's another possibility: that Bioware/EA decided that being able to skill up crafting too quickly (because you have credits from Slicing to do so) and buying proper gear for your level so you can level up more easily (because you have credits from Slicing to do so) would allow people to hit max level more quickly and finish the available content. So they decided to slow us down by forcing us to grind mindlessly for credits (a time sink and certainly not fun... after all, it's a game, not a job).

 

I really hope that's not the case.

 

Anyway, this matter was handled so poorly that I cancelled my subscription as I stated before. When they "unNerf" slicing I'll come back. I let my wallet do the talking. I suggest others do the same. Hit Bioware/EA in their cash register and tell them why you've done so. That'll turn on all sorts of alarms.

[Engleheart]

Just wait, you'll be 5x that once you're outfitted with better gear. And that's not even counting in the fact that none of us are even close to 'best in slot' gear yet. The GTN working smoother would alleviate some of the issue. If it became more accessible and easier to use perhaps we would see more buyers. Then again, everyone's currently scared to spend money due to the slicing nerf.

 

 

 

All of this.

[WuphonsReach]

Level caps.

 

+1

 

The whole problem with Slicing (and the other skills) is that you could create a low level alt and run high level slicing / whatever missions. Which made it wonderfully prone to abuse (and it was probably botted to hell and back by the 2nd day).

 

Just look at the mission brackets in-game:

 

10-16

17-24

25-32

33-40

41-48

49-50

 

Those brackets should have been limited based on your character level.

 

They didn't do that, so they ended up with a very wonderful mess.

[ryancwn]

I'm lvl 24, and running slicing with the droid companion only. I picked up slicing at lvl 15 and now have 103K creds in my favour. I had 12K creds when I picked up slicing back at 15, so that went up really fast.

 

The quest reward get better at later level.... In beta I did not take up slicing and I still went from 10k at late 20 to to 10k at lv 25 after buying all skills, speeder, recipe and crafting alone. I think what wrong is people don't know how to save money and keep buying stims, vendor trash, sending crew members to make useless junks and expect to profit from unwanted junks. Not to mention I didn't even touch the AH in beta too. All of my money are from questing alone and still sufficient to pay my bill. daily space mission and heroic are also rewarding.

[RvEijndhoven]

Thank you for this. Not only does it reinforce the opposition to the belief some have that missions should not be profitable, it illuminates an issue many people don't quite grasp. While I don't quite agree with the fix being to eliminate costs from missions, something does need to be done. I don't, however, have a better solution.

 

The main reason why I advocate removing the Credit Cost from missions is that, if needed, the Time component can be extended for balance if needed.

 

But most importantly because: Going out and harvesting Nodes (for archeology, Scavenging and Bioanalysis are even easier since there's no shortage of 'strong' Droids/Animals) actually takes less time AND money if you know a couple of locations to hit, so in essence, having to pay credits for those missions that already take longer to get me materials is like having the game tell me 'Hey, that Grinding you're doing right now? You can totally avoid having to do that if you grind credits instead'.

 

Or alternatively: 'Hey, if you simply forgo repairing your equipment/upgrading your skills, you don't have to share all those nodes with other people. Or you could, you know, upgrade your skills and NOT be able to afford to craft anything this level unless you grind for either materials or more cash, up to you.'

[Yummymango]

Rant - I think the Si Sorcerers are doing a lot of damage, they should seriously be nerfed.

 

Will BW deal with this kinds of whining by also nerfing the class in a week :/ Seems like it.

[VioletZero]

9k for me to repair.... wow, yeah glad they took out money making profession they rcreated in put in a cred sink.

 

This actually reminds me of RF Online.

 

Terrible game, but there were a lot of things I really loved about it.

 

One of those things was that you had to buy supplies before doing anything. And you were lucky, underline, LUCKY if you broke even because of how expensive the supplies were. So it forced players to make compromises, seek new avenues of income and become better players.

 

And the best part is that even the most successful and skilled players were always strapped for cash. So it had a lot of value. Like trading necessary and rare upgrades just so that they could progress through the game. For all the game's faults, it had a great economy.

 

And then Episode 2, the 15x drop rates and hyperinflation came. Money essentially became useless and the game became even more of a chore.

 

This is something I hope to see with SWTOR. Where everyone, especially people at high levels, are always short on cash and it is always extremely expensive to do anything.

 

Repair costs being so high gives me hope to see this again. And in a good game for once.

 

+1

 

The whole problem with Slicing (and the other skills) is that you could create a low level alt and run high level slicing / whatever missions. Which made it wonderfully prone to abuse (and it was probably botted to hell and back by the 2nd day).

 

Just look at the mission brackets in-game:

 

10-16

17-24

25-32

33-40

41-48

49-50

 

Those brackets should have been limited based on your character level.

 

They didn't do that, so they ended up with a very wonderful mess.

 

So what's stopping them from leveling up their alts? Making the issue even worse I might add.

Edited December 29, 2011 by VioletZero

[kyodokami]

I was reading through these threads all day... I never comment in forums but I feel compelled to throw an idea into the mix.

 

Was Slicing the problem? OR... Is the issue the fact that NPCs sell most if not all crafting mats?

 

I say:

1. Rip all crafting mat selling NPCs out of the game

2. Return Slicing to what it was (Or nerf it a little, maybe allow one slicer per server)

3. Slicers will have to buy all crafting mats from the AH...

 

This would cause a nice redistribution of wealth to the crafters who are focusing on professions that supplement their crafting profession. Slicers can still use their 'free' money to buy gathered goods from the AH.

 

My logic is much clearer than my typing, so before I get roasted for this... actively think of my proposed solution... poke holes in it... but please fill the holes with a better solution.

 

Thoughts?

[Kelzare]

I saw about how slicing was 'adjusted' and decided I'd pick it up today. However, there seems to be no point in it at all now. Sure, it would be nice to randomly find a lock box to open in the field, but I have other trade skills that can net more useful/valuable items.

 

To take slicing would just hamper down on a crafting skill, by making it so I have a character who relies on another to gather mission items or gathering items. Most gear I've found have no need for augments, and most gear I've been using I've just been upgrading via Mod Commendations or simply by making my own mods.

 

By taking slicing, it would also prevent you from making higher quality items on your own, forcing you to use outside sources, but if you aren't exactly making money how do you expect to do so?

 

I've seen many arguments about how slicing isn't supposed to make money via sending on missions. But that would make the skill almost entirely worthless, no?

 

Augments aren't exactly in high demand.

The lack of a correct gathering/mission skill would cripple a crafting skill by disallowing the crafting of higher rarity items.

Many patterns can be found or bought otherwise.

Correctly utilized crafting skills (Having both recommended gather/mission skill) would make more valuable items, in return making more money.

 

 

To those saying that slicing is now fine, why would you take it now after reading all of this?

 

The only circumstance in which I would take slicing now, is once I max my relevant crafting skills and have room for a gather mule, who would take only gathering skills, just for the hell of it.

 

Instead of making the skill a huge credit sink, they should just make it so it's only very slightly profitable. Keep in mind that higher level missions do take 20+ minutes and can still fail. If I send a companion out and they only bring me a PROFIT of 100-300 credits, I could easily go out and gather components for crafting and craft 1 item that would make that much. Another thing they could do is make augments more common in gear, or the augments acquired to be more valuable, to encourage the use of augments.

 

All in all, while people can say it justly deserved the nerf, which I am sure it probably did, the amount of which it has been nerfed is just unwarranted.

[VioletZero]

I saw about how slicing was 'adjusted' and decided I'd pick it up today. However, there seems to be no point in it at all now. Sure, it would be nice to randomly find a lock box to open in the field, but I have other trade skills that can net more useful/valuable items. .

 

You make a very valid point.

 

Slicing should probably get buffed. But don't buff it to a point where mission skills can be profitable. That was a huge problem.

 

Adding level caps would just put a band aid on the issue with an easy work around.

Edited December 29, 2011 by VioletZero

[RvEijndhoven]

Thoughts?

 

First and foremost this thought:

 

There are no 'crafting mats selling' vendors... Except for the single one (well single type) that sells Crafting 'Supplements', which are materials needed for Tier 2+ recipes and gotten only through that vendor or a single Bountiful mission per tier per Gathering skill. And no one in their right mind would buy from those considering how much cheaper that Bountiful mission (per tier etc..) is.

 

So this would change exactly nothing (except for unnerfing Slicing).

[Pansophist]

The main reason why I advocate removing the Credit Cost from missions is that, if needed, the Time component can be extended for balance if needed.

 

But most importantly because: Going out and harvesting Nodes (for archeology, Scavenging and Bioanalysis are even easier since there's no shortage of 'strong' Droids/Animals) actually takes less time AND money if you know a couple of locations to hit, so in essence, having to pay credits for those missions that already take longer to get me materials is like having the game tell me 'Hey, that Grinding you're doing right now? You can totally avoid having to do that if you grind credits instead'.

 

Or alternatively: 'Hey, if you simply forgo repairing your equipment/upgrading your skills, you don't have to share all those nodes with other people. Or you could, you know, upgrade your skills and NOT be able to afford to craft anything this level unless you grind for either materials or more cash, up to you.'

 

That's a fair point. Honestly, when I initially started playing in the beta, I saw the time duration and was excited because, well, I was hoping for a crafting system where I send my companion out for 1-3 days at a time to come back with (crosses fingers) an incredible item. Or maybe just an item. Or some mats. Granted, I think that time frame should be reserved for only the highest quality items, but I originally hoped for it.

 

Time duration could fix this. However, even being more of a hardcore player, I loved Bioware for making the game accessible to casual players. I have mixed feelings about long time duration for the casual players. On one hand, a 3 day mission means not having to log in every day - which some may consider an advantage. On another, the instant gratification most casual players seek isn't there. I'm not a casual player, so I don't know - I'd love to hear their feedback.

[Racheakt]

My two cents, there are several "problems" that slicing has exposed:

 

Here is how it worked, Slicers made cash hand over fist, but had no place to put it other than server's bit bucket. Crafters were levling useless skills, forking their cash to the server's bit bucket. en the end Slicers were rich, in a world where there was nothing to buy, and the crafers were poor in a world owend by the server. Bingo insta rage at slicing.

 

The vendor based gear (Quest Reward gear, PvP gear, Comendation gear, and raid gear) out shines crafted gear for levling, destroying the market for green crafted gear (and most blues) at all levels.

 

I am still using the Orange blaser I got at level 11, have an orange helm, Orange chest, and my light-side orange gloves, as a Cyber I keep it either self updated or with Commndation tokens (sad comentary realy as a cyber I found it cheaper to get comendation mods over making it myself?).

 

There is one maybe two benificial crafting skills, Biochem is one -- those endless heal kits and stims rock -- BUT that is a costly crafting skill. Cyber is another (IMHO) extra AOE bombs never hurt.

 

Skill ups are insane at higher levels, making any credits you can get by an means a must.

 

The GTN is crap -- I mean

-- It needs a search function, I know what the hell I need from my craft window, let me seach for it. It makes connecting buyers to sellers an insane keystone cop chase.

 

Bottom line: Slicing became popular because other skills are useless untill endgame (for mods, and then only untill raid mods are roling in), the game credit sinks are outlandish after level 30 on an ever increasing cost spike.

 

I know I am not the only one who sees this.

 

BW can continue the NERFAGE rampage and poop all over PvP gear, quest rewards, and comendation vendors. OR then can fix what is wrong with other crafting skills. Lets face it if the other skills has items (other than mats) that slicers wanted to buy that cash would not have sat in the bank, they would have spent it.

 

What good is point out the problem without a solution, Here is my start:

 

Weapon crafters and Armor crafters should be able to "Crit" orange gear, it is the only engame viable "product" besides mods.

 

Reduce training costs across the board.

 

Remove repair bills, make summon shuttle on death once every 24 hour thing or make you pay an immediate med bill based on level.

 

Fix the damn GTN (beta testers hated when the search function was removed)

 

Remove all mods and implants from Commendation vendors, that way all crafters have a product that is in demand. BW do not fear the free market, if there are few mod makers and gun barrels start selling for 20k, people will roll weapon makers for the cash -- that is how it works.

 

Reduce the plans sold by crafting vendors, make more of the discoverd thorugh RE-ing and crew skills -- make a market for plans.

 

Decide what the hell slicing is, if it is a gathering skill -- change the function of the crew skills, that is only return augments with a chance at a mission and/or a cyber schematic and drasticly increase the world slicing nodes cash box yields back to what they were. OR make it a Crew skill only -- removing the world nodes and retun it to something a little less than but closer to pre nerf. Else remove it, and distibute augments and mission discoveries to other crew skills.

 

If all mods leveling are only player made, Orange items can have 4 slots, and blueprints are harder to come by, then the excess credits (made slicing, grinding, market playing, or selling gear/mods) are absobed by players not the game system itself.

 

If something like this was inplace (like many of the beta testers warned) then the need to nerf slicing was moot.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Racheakt

[kyodokami]

First and foremost this thought:

 

There are no 'crafting mats selling' vendors... Except for the single one (well single type) that sells Crafting 'Supplements', which are materials needed for Tier 2+ recipes and gotten only through that vendor or a single Bountiful mission per tier per Gathering skill. And no one in their right mind would buy from those considering how much cheaper that Bountiful mission (per tier etc..) is.

 

So this would change exactly nothing (except for unnerfing Slicing).

 

Trade Good Vendors?