Make HM/NIM mount drop in SM as well

[Slowpokeking]

But the way to get it is spelled out. If you are willing to do what it takes to earn it, do so. If not that is a choice. Don't demand it be made so you can get it your way because you are choosing not to do it the right way. And it is about I've earned it, or not as the case may be I have not earned every prize that is behind NiM ops or even all the HM ones. Either way its about earning it, you can chose to earn it or not,

 

Well about spending 12m on a mount...that is your choice you made it in a free economy with fair knowledge the price can go up or down. Getting a NiM reward lets me know others can have it to, they simply need to complete the NiM op.

 

What do you mean demand it to be made? Making it to be dropped in SM and HM is demanded to be made? Are you saying most of the players aren't spending effort to this game and don't deserve to earn? Only ppl like you do? I've spent 120+ runs to get a mount from story FP, I'm willing to spend effort , just hope there are other ways than being forced to stick with a group and change my entire gaming style, especially on very old content.

 

I've started to play since 2012. A lot of things were much tougher at that time, a lot of things were much more difficult to get at that time as well. There was even no GF till 1.3. But it's never wrong for Bioware to make it simpler for players as time goes by. Same with ops content. They've also done it in the past as well. If you think you've earned something in the hard way and others must follow the same step even after a couple years, then what you really cared is your pride and owning something others don't, which is silly. It's not how MMO works as well.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[xordevoreaux]

So essentially you're saying you don't think putting the effort into clearing NiM content should have its own rewards? I completely do not agree with your idea, I think NiM capable raiders should get NiM specific rewards that are not watered down as you are suggesting.

 

Next it'll be asking for Ranked PvP rewards being available to reg PvP players, including titles and season rewards.

 

No, just no.

 

As a casual player, I actually agree with what Transcendent is saying here. If someone works toward something, they should get the reward. If you don't work toward it, you don't get the reward. I think it's fair as is.

Edited July 19, 2017 by xordevoreaux

[Theardentlegacy]

After reading this thread, I realized that the person that made it has an unchanging opinion despite what anyone said. That being said this response is meant for anyone that sees to understand what a raider really thinks about this subject.

 

Do I have the NIM mounts? No not yet. My group is very close to killing Brontes atm and will do so over the next couple weeks. When I see someone on Fleet that is riding a NIM mount, I get excited to see that people have cleared these bosses. I find that the way ops are today is just too easy. I have seen SM ops 3 manned and we have run 1 Tank 6 DPS and 1 Heal through Hardmodes with our heals not even paying attention and steamrolled it. At the end of the day these mounts are visible achievements that people did something difficult.

 

I have wanted the wings a long time just like the creator of this thread but if it meant I never even get them, I would not want a chance of them dropping in SM/HM. With what little NIM community is left will dwindle down to nothing if this happens.

[Theeko]

I believe they should leave the rare items in harder difficulties tbh, but atleast make them tradeable and sellable

[xordevoreaux]

After reading this thread, I realized that the person that made it has an unchanging opinion despite what anyone said. That being said this response is meant for anyone that sees to understand what a raider really thinks about this subject.

 

Do I have the NIM mounts? No not yet. My group is very close to killing Brontes atm and will do so over the next couple weeks. When I see someone on Fleet that is riding a NIM mount, I get excited to see that people have cleared these bosses. I find that the way ops are today is just too easy. I have seen SM ops 3 manned and we have run 1 Tank 6 DPS and 1 Heal through Hardmodes with our heals not even paying attention and steamrolled it. At the end of the day these mounts are visible achievements that people did something difficult.

 

I have wanted the wings a long time just like the creator of this thread but if it meant I never even get them, I would not want a chance of them dropping in SM/HM. With what little NIM community is left will dwindle down to nothing if this happens.

 

I've seen it happen, but few posters ever change their mind.

[Ratajack]

What effort? Why can't I put effort on SM and HM to get it? Why must it be NIM at all? Again ops is not about effort, but about finding a group.

 

They are 3-4 years old content, they shouldn't be very hard anymore. Let's say the most successful MMORPG WOW, it never bothered to let people overrun old raid at all. SWTOR did it simply because there was no or little new content.

 

It's not about effort, you put the effort, you get it. That's your business. Nobody's trying to take it away. WHY does it matter if others can get it as well? WHY does it matter to you? If you care about it that much, then it means what you really care is your pride of having something others don't, which is silly.

 

Let's look at WoW.

 

There are still old raid mounts that only drop in 25 man heroic mode.

 

Those mounts don't drop in easier modes.

 

Again, it IS about effort, even if that effort were simply finding a group. I think we both know that the effort is NOT just finding a group, though. NiM is significantly harder than SM.

 

Unless I am mistaken, you've already indicated that you don't even want to put forth the effort to even find a group, let alone the effort to clear the NiM OP's.

[Slowpokeking]

Let's look at WoW.

 

There are still old raid mounts that only drop in 25 man heroic mode.

 

Those mounts don't drop in easier modes.

 

Again, it IS about effort, even if that effort were simply finding a group. I think we both know that the effort is NOT just finding a group, though. NiM is significantly harder than SM.

 

Unless I am mistaken, you've already indicated that you don't even want to put forth the effort to even find a group, let alone the effort to clear the NiM OP's.

And people can easily overrun them, why can't SWTOR do the same? If they can I don't mind it.

 

Put away the effort fallacy, by that logic we should return this game's format to the 2012 version. A lot of things were way more difficult then, so it was wrong for Bioware to make it simple for people so they don't have to spend their "effort" to do it? Korrealis Prince/Sovereign were PVP rewards then, was it wrong to make them easy purchase from crates now? It's really not how MMO works.

 

It's not about finding a group, but about stick with a group, set fixed schedule and keep trying on very old content. If I truly want to raid I will pick something other than SWTOR.

[Slowpokeking]

After reading this thread, I realized that the person that made it has an unchanging opinion despite what anyone said. That being said this response is meant for anyone that sees to understand what a raider really thinks about this subject.

 

Do I have the NIM mounts? No not yet. My group is very close to killing Brontes atm and will do so over the next couple weeks. When I see someone on Fleet that is riding a NIM mount, I get excited to see that people have cleared these bosses. I find that the way ops are today is just too easy. I have seen SM ops 3 manned and we have run 1 Tank 6 DPS and 1 Heal through Hardmodes with our heals not even paying attention and steamrolled it. At the end of the day these mounts are visible achievements that people did something difficult.

 

I have wanted the wings a long time just like the creator of this thread but if it meant I never even get them, I would not want a chance of them dropping in SM/HM. With what little NIM community is left will dwindle down to nothing if this happens.

So how does others being able to get mount affect your feeling at all? There are titles and achievement to show if you do NIM, it doesn't require the mount to prove them. And why does it matter for other people to think about them? Let me remind you, they could have simply spent credits to buy the mount.

 

HOW does it affect NIM community at all? They still get the mount. If all they care is the mount and don't want others to get them, then that's really pathetic for them.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

As a casual player, I actually agree with what Transcendent is saying here. If someone works toward something, they should get the reward. If you don't work toward it, you don't get the reward. I think it's fair as is.

 

So by this logic, the entire game should return to the 1.0 version, when things were much more difficult, otherwise it would be unfair for people who had spent that much effort to get what they've got at that time? I've spent a painful week to play 12 hours a day to reach the end of the Agent story. Should I ask Bioware to let other players EARN their story ending the same way as I do if they want to make it in 1 week now?

 

Korrealis Prince/Sovereign were PVP rewards during the 1.1 era, so putting them into crates is dishonoring(I'm gonna laugh) those who had spent effort to get them?

Edited July 19, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[Ratajack]

And people can easily overrun them, why can't SWTOR do the same? If they can I don't mind it.

 

Put away the effort fallacy, by that logic we should return this game's format to the 2012 version. A lot of things were way more difficult then, so it was wrong for Bioware to make it simple for people so they don't have to spend their "effort" to do it? Korrealis Prince/Sovereign were PVP rewards then, was it wrong to make them easy purchase from crates now? It's really not how MMO works.

 

It's not about finding a group, but about stick with a group, set fixed schedule and keep trying on very old content. If I truly want to raid I will pick something other than SWTOR.

 

If you choose not to raid, then you should accept that NiM OP's drops will NOT be coming your way.

 

It really IS that simple.

[dscount]

People work hard to clear NIM content. Some people seem to think because it takes too long to coordinate and clear that content the associated rewards should be partially rewarded in easier content.

 

Sorry - I disagree. Those groups that still work on that content deserve to have something rare and obtainable that is not reskinned in the Cartel Market nor available in SM/HM content. Think of it as a first place trophy for your group and one of the very few items in the game that rewards a participation trophy. Just like timed run titles it requires you to do the work. Plain and simple.

 

It's like having two sales people in your organization that sell different cars and get bonus check based on that. Both of them are able to sell any car on the lot, but one person takes the time to learn all about the market and more expensive car features itself and one doesn't learn anything beyond the name.

 

1) JohnnyGotGood sells new BMW's and gets a $2,500 check each time he sells a new model.

2) MustBeJoking sells used fords and gets a $250 check each time he sells one.

 

Now... it would be like giving $2,500 check randomly (RNG 1%) to Joking for selling the same old used cars. Why should Joking get anything extra? I mean in this analogy his used ford likely was worth $5,000 and not even economically viable to give him $250 he got already let alone more. He did what ~70% less work to obtain that item in SM and maybe 45% in HM. (Numbers total guess, but the point is additional complexity and mechanics in HM and NIM content).

 

My two cents!

Agree or Disagree, but please be respectful of other peoples viewpoints as well Rules of Conduct in Forums. No matter how passionate you are about something not everyone is going to agree with you.

[Slowpokeking]

If you choose not to raid, then you should accept that NiM OP's drops will NOT be coming your way.

 

It really IS that simple.

 

So if you chose not to spend that much time and effort to roll a character, you should just accept it and not get the personal story? Bioware shouldn't have reduced the side quests you have to do to level up?

 

So if you chose not to do group FP, you shouldn't be able to get the Prelude of SoR? Bioware shouldn't have introduced a Solo FP system later?

 

So if you chose not to spend time on fleet to ask for FP, you should accept it? Bioware shouldn't have introduced GF system?

 

So if you chose not to PVP with a pub/imperial toon, you should accept that you are noting going to get Korrealis Prince/Sovereign? Bioware shouldn't have put them in crates?

 

See the problem here? If we use this logic, we would still have lived in the 1.0 era, which gaming is much more difficult.

[Slowpokeking]

People work hard to clear NIM content. Some people seem to think because it takes too long to coordinate and clear that content the associated rewards should be partially rewarded in easier content.

 

Sorry - I disagree. Those groups that still work on that content deserve to have something rare and obtainable that is not reskinned in the Cartel Market nor available in SM/HM content. Think of it as a first place trophy for your group and one of the very few items in the game that rewards a participation trophy. Just like timed run titles it requires you to do the work. Plain and simple.

 

It's like having two sales people in your organization that sell different cars and get bonus check based on that. Both of them are able to sell any car on the lot, but one person takes the time to learn all about the market and more expensive car features itself and one doesn't learn anything beyond the name.

 

1) JohnnyGotGood sells new BMW's and gets a $2,500 check each time he sells a new model.

2) MustBeJoking sells used fords and gets a $250 check each time he sells one.

 

Now... it would be like giving $2,500 check randomly (RNG 1%) to Joking for selling the same old used cars. Why should Joking get anything extra? I mean in this analogy his used ford likely was worth $5,000 and not even economically viable to give him $250 he got already let alone more. He did what ~70% less work to obtain that item in SM and maybe 45% in HM. (Numbers total guess, but the point is additional complexity and mechanics in HM and NIM content).

 

My two cents!

Agree or Disagree, but please be respectful of other peoples viewpoints as well Rules of Conduct in Forums. No matter how passionate you are about something not everyone is going to agree with you.

I work hard to find groups to run through 4 FP to get the prelude of SoR, so people shouldn't have easier way like Solo FP to get it?

I work hard to stay on fleet, yelling for a FP group, so people shouldn't have easier way like GF to get it?

I work hard to make one imp and one pub toon to get the Korrealis Prince/Sovereign through PVP, so people shouldn't have got them in crates?

 

See the problem?

 

Your example is a bad one, it was actually my point. Mustbejoking gets 250$ times, but he still can get what Johny have got if he was willing to spend time. The current case is quite different.

[FerkWork]

No

 

/thread

[Ratajack]

So if you chose not to spend that much time and effort to roll a character, you should just accept it and not get the personal story? Bioware shouldn't have reduced the side quests you have to do to level up?

 

So if you chose not to do group FP, you shouldn't be able to get the Prelude of SoR? Bioware shouldn't have introduced a Solo FP system later?

 

So if you chose not to spend time on fleet to ask for FP, you should accept it? Bioware shouldn't have introduced GF system?

 

So if you chose not to PVP with a pub/imperial toon, you should accept that you are noting going to get Korrealis Prince/Sovereign? Bioware shouldn't have put them in crates?

 

See the problem here? If we use this logic, we would still have lived in the 1.0 era, which gaming is much more difficult.

 

If I choose not to do the side quests, I accept that I do not get the rewards for those side quests. I do not ask to be given the rewards for not doing the content, or even for a 1% chance for those rewards for not doing that content.

 

 

If I choose to skip the leveling, then I can use a character boost, but I accept that i do not get the titles I would earn by doing the content to level. I do not ask for the titles I did not earn by actually doing the content, or even a 1% chance to be given those titles.

[dscount]

I work hard to find groups to run through 4 FP to get the prelude of SoR, so people shouldn't have easier way like Solo FP to get it?

I work hard to stay on fleet, yelling for a FP group, so people shouldn't have easier way like GF to get it?

I work hard to make one imp and one pub toon to get the Korrealis Prince/Sovereign through PVP, so people shouldn't have got them in crates?

 

See the problem?

 

Your example is a bad one, it was actually my point. Mustbejoking gets 250$ times, but he still can get what Johny have got if he was willing to spend time. The current case is quite different.

 

Not really my friend - it's exactly the same. FYI - I totally get the standing on fleet trying to get even an SM GF group (lack of players feeds that problem I know and agree). Right now (Like last xx years) the only way to get these rewards is to get into a group/guild that does the content. If you are willing to put forth the time and effort you can like Johnny learn the stuff well enough to clear and get the goodies (Finding 7 other Johnny's is the harder part). Eight weeks of clearing in a good/fair group everyone has said Mount. I know it's not what you want to hear, but alot of the problem is most raiders Bioware ran off over the last couple years so it's harder to come by nowadays a good group willing to help.

 

Many guilds did runs back in 3.x/4.x days and you joined a lockout for wings and new people walked away with them each time. The catch was those folks joining needed to have at least cleared HM and knew mechanics.

[Slowpokeking]

If I choose not to do the side quests, I accept that I do not get the rewards for those side quests. I do not ask to be given the rewards for not doing the content, or even for a 1% chance for those rewards for not doing that content.

 

 

If I choose to skip the leveling, then I can use a character boost, but I accept that i do not get the titles I would earn by doing the content to level. I do not ask for the titles I did not earn by actually doing the content, or even a 1% chance to be given those titles.

 

In 1.0 era If you don't do side quests, you don't have enough XP to gain the level to continue your personal story. There is no such thing as character boost at that time. If you don't do those quests, then you need to grind on killing mobs to level up, which would be very painful, especially in era like 1.0.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[_Shaddai_]

Your example is a bad one, it was actually my point. Mustbejoking gets 250$ times, but he still can get what Johny have got if he was willing to spend time. The current case is quite different.

 

Oh the irony.

Edited July 19, 2017 by _Shaddai_

[Slowpokeking]

Not really my friend - it's exactly the same. FYI - I totally get the standing on fleet trying to get even an SM GF group (lack of players feeds that problem I know and agree). Right now (Like last xx years) the only way to get these rewards is to get into a group/guild that does the content. If you are willing to put forth the time and effort you can like Johnny learn the stuff well enough to clear and get the goodies (Finding 7 other Johnny's is the harder part). Eight weeks of clearing in a good/fair group everyone has said Mount. I know it's not what you want to hear, but alot of the problem is most raiders Bioware ran off over the last couple years so it's harder to come by nowadays a good group willing to help.

 

Many guilds did runs back in 3.x/4.x days and you joined a lockout for wings and new people walked away with them each time. The catch was those folks joining needed to have at least cleared HM and knew mechanics.

 

No it's not the same, your example shows both sides could get what they want just in different time period. That's different than SM/HM/NIM mode right now.

 

I had to queue up for all 4 fps when I did the Prelude of SoR, I don't think others must spend the same effort to earn it.

I had to stay on fleet, asking ppl to form a FP group before 1.3. I don't think others must do the same like I did.

I had to do 80%+ of the side quests to get my first few toons to 50 and it was very long. I don't think others should have spent the same effort to earn it now.

I know Korrealis Prince/Sovereign are PVP rewards and Imp/Pub only. Even if I've got them at that time, I wouldn't be mad now when they are in crates.

 

See? It's not how it works for MMO.

[Slowpokeking]

Oh the irony.

He doesn't have to change his way, which you have to if you want to be a raider.

I have time, but I don't want to change my game style and set FIXED time schedule.

[Tsillah]

Put away the effort fallacy,

It's not a fallacy. You just want something that you can't have because you don't want to do what it takes to get it and so you want BW to devaluate a reward that has always been associated with NiM raiding.

 

 

by that logic we should return this game's format to the 2012 version. A lot of things were way more difficult then, so it was wrong for Bioware to make it simple for people so they don't have to spend their "effort" to do it?

Yep, I think it was wrong for them to dumb the game down as much as they did. I know that it's not going to be changed back but I certainly wish that a lot of things were still harder like they used to be...especially in the level 1-50 story lines. Even when SWTOR was just out there were complaints that it was too easy back then. I thought it was balanced about right to my liking. So yeah, I'm all for going away from near-instant gratification.

 

It's not about finding a group, but about stick with a group, set fixed schedule and keep trying on very old content. If I truly want to raid I will pick something other than SWTOR.

Feel free to go play something else. It's just disgusting you want to take the only thing that allows people to still show off their achievement of beating NiM content. It's just deeply anti-social. So what if it's a badge of honour to them? The mounts are cool but they have another value and you spit on that secondary value.

 

And that's just a terrible attitude.

[Jdast]

No it's not the same, your example shows both sides could get what they want just in different time period. That's different than SM/HM/NIM mode right now.

 

I had to queue up for all 4 fps when I did the Prelude of SoR, I don't think others must spend the same effort to earn it.

I had to stay on fleet, asking ppl to form a FP group before 1.3. I don't think others must do the same like I did.

I had to do 80%+ of the side quests to get my first few toons to 50 and it was very long. I don't think others should have spent the same effort to earn it now.

I know Korrealis Prince/Sovereign are PVP rewards and Imp/Pub only. Even if I've got them at that time, I wouldn't be mad now when they are in crates.

 

See? It's not how it works for MMO.

 

Slow,

 

It is one thing to say that you should be able to solo progress and see the main elements of the story. It is another thing entirely (i.e., categorically different) to say that you should be able to gain to access to specific titles, mounts, etc., that are ancillary to the main story.

 

Dasty the Hutt

Edited July 19, 2017 by Jdast

[Slowpokeking]

It's not a fallacy. You just want something that you can't have because you don't want to do what it takes to get it and so you want BW to devaluate a reward that has always been associated with NiM raiding.

I've got stuff that was much more difficult back then, do you see me complain about it? NO. Why can't you do the same? It doesn't affect your achievement and loot in any way.

 

Yep, I think it was wrong for them to dumb the game down as much as they did. I know that it's not going to be changed back but I certainly wish that a lot of things were still harder like they used to be...especially in the level 1-50 story lines. Even when SWTOR was just out there were complaints that it was too easy back then. I thought it was balanced about right to my liking. So yeah, I'm all for going away from near-instant gratification.

No it wasn't, the storyline is to let people know the story without spending too much effort on the side quests or gameplay. Those complaints were quite sick as well. If SWTOR was still like the 1.0 era I'm sure the game would be in a worse state right now.

 

So you are against GF as well? You think ppl should stay on fleet to yell for every FP?

 

 

 

Feel free to go play something else. It's just disgusting you want to take the only thing that allows people to still show off their achievement of beating NiM content. It's just deeply anti-social. So what if it's a badge of honour to them? The mounts are cool but they have another value and you spit on that secondary value.

 

And that's just a terrible attitude.

Yeah some people want to show their "achievement" in a game through very old content without letting others have the same mount as well. If I were them I would feel ashamed and find something better to do in life. Seriously? You are asking for badge of honor in a game? Seriously there are a lot more things to do in real life. Even if I want to raid, I won't keep interest on 3-5 years old content or care about can others do them/get rewards as well.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've done NIM S&V with pugs, I got nothing from it and I feel very proud. But I feel proud simply because we've spent effort and made it that's all. I don't care about others have done it or not or can they faceroll it in the future. That's true honor, what you are saying about is not honor, just something like "I GOT IT AND YOU DON'T HAHAHAHA".

Edited July 20, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

Slow,

 

It is one thing to say that you should be able to solo progress and see the main elements of the story. It is another thing entirely (i.e., categorically different) to say that you should be able to gain to access to specific titles, mounts, etc., that are ancillary to the main story.

 

Dasty the Hutt

 

By that logic, why does it have to be solo at all? Can't people group up to go through this easy fp to know the story?

 

I've mentioned the mounts as well. The Korrellais series were way more difficult to get back then. It doesn't mean it has to stay the same way as well. It's not how a MMO works.

[Transcendent]

So you can't earn them anymore if it drops in other mode? When you see others have it it really hurts your pride and feeling?

 

Then I was correct all along, you don't care about the mount, you care about the "AWESOMENESS TO HAVE SOMETHING OTHERS DON'T".

 

Nope, doesn't hurt me in anyway what-so-ever. However, you clearly have an issue with not wanting to earn something, I'll leave you alone to that and we'll agree to disagree. You have your opinion, while you're entitled to have one it doesn't mean I have to agree with that, nor does it mean that your opinion is correct or better than anyone else's in this thread.

 

Argue away, I'm done here.