Change to Cartel Color Crystals and Weapon Tunings with Legacy Weapons

[Rooff]

Most important part of the post. Thanks for this, Keith. Good to know that it's only a temporary problem.

 

I do think it's unfair to say that people's previous use of cartel modifications with legacy weapons was an exploit, as we clearly had it on record that Bioware did not consider it an exploit.

 

The problem is not going to be fixed. They are only making you pay for a solution when the real fix should be allowing us to get item unlocking the collection for that one character and then when I put the tunning/crystal on my legacy weapon preventing it from being unlocked on other characters but still letting my weapon be passed around.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

tunings cost 600cc, so your statement is mute since they are more expensive

 

Mute or moot?

[blinkerathome]

snip

 

So this is where the new producer is heading, wanting us to throw even more real money in this game that is half dead already. Things suddenly become an exploit that were announced to be not years before.

 

So as a normal player who has several characters (as intended in the previous expansion) that use legacy weapons to share the stats on it, I bought nice looking crystals so the lightsabers/guns look pretty. Why should I suddenly have to pay for using legacy weapons with real money as they are intended to be used? I don't get it really. I am paying around 140€ a year to play this game as a subscriber and still I have to pay more money to use an item as it was intended to be used.

 

I thought the game would go into a better direction with a new producer but this alone (and the post of matt) let's me think that the game is still going downwards. The current theme is 'one character only, give me your money and all that's happened since release of the game is irrelevant now'...

Edited July 12, 2017 by blinkerathome

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If you dont want other entering "your" private thread, take it to pms. Otherwise it is fair game.

 

Never said it wasn't, merely asked why they are bothering when any response they gave would make zero sense in the context of the question I asked TUXs since it was TUXs stated I was curious for justification around.

 

I don't see why someone else could or would justify TUXs statement especially when doing so showed they were well off the mark.

[QuinlanSaathis]

The problem is not going to be fixed. They are only making you pay for a solution when the real fix should be allowing us to get item unlocking the collection for that one character and then when I put the tunning/crystal on my legacy weapon preventing it from being unlocked on other characters but still letting my weapon be passed around.

 

No

The characters that did not unlock the item should NOT be allowed to use it just because you passed it to them.

Sure its legacy and the item itself is available to you but you cannot use it till you remove the item that you are too cheap to unlock for your character.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It's not the fact they tried to change it that upsets people. It's the fact the change doesn't work. Something that would have literally taken 2 minutes to test and see it doesn't work.

And the fact that they introduced tunings with the same system as crystals KNOWING they would get exploited the same, did it regardless, didn't test this new change and went forth with it anyway and are now telling us it'll take at least a month to fix it.

 

It doesn't work? So you CAN still send legacy weapons with CM crystals/tunings in them to your alts? They should probably fix that if so.

 

Fairly certain the 2 minutes nonsense is hyperbole but hey if that's how ya roll, more power to you.

 

Also pretty sure they didn't KNOW it would be exploited to cut themselves out of profit, otherwise why would they bother fixing it now?

[QuinlanSaathis]

So I put in the black/purple legacy crystals last night into my legacy weapons and they are all working fine today.

No issue.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So this is where the new producer is heading, wanting us to throw even more real money in this game that is half dead already. Things suddenly become an exploit that were announced to be not years before.

 

Again, it was never announced to not be an exploit, why do people keep stating this? Before you go quote Eric I suggest you read his post carefully too. I do so hate to see people embarrass themselves.

 

 

So as a normal player who has several characters (as intended in the previous expansion) that use legacy weapons to share the stats on it, I bought nice looking crystals so the lightsabers/guns look pretty. Why should I suddenly have to pay for using legacy weapons with real money as they are intended to be used?

 

They were never intended to allow you to unlock items on other toons to make copies of. They may have in the past let crystals slide from a sharing perspective but that's now changed. This just brings things in line with any other CM item - why should crystals and tunings be exempt from a business point of view?

 

I don't get it really. I am paying around 140€ a year to play this game as a subscriber and still I have to pay more money to use an item as it was intended to be used.

 

Intended to be used? How do you know what was intended or not? There weren't tunings when the legacy system was designed. I would consider sharing crystals somewhat of a loophole personally.

[MotherCrusher]

Again, it was never announced to not be an exploit, why do people keep stating this? Before you go quote Eric I suggest you read his post carefully too. I do so hate to see people embarrass themselves.

 

you are the one who didnt read it right apparently.

"Correct, using a Legacy Weapon to move a Color Crystal which you pulled down from your Collections UI is not an exploit"

"Not an exploit"

its exactly what we were doing with the crystals. pulling em from the collections and throwing to other alts using legacy weapons

They were never intended to allow you to unlock items on other toons to make copies of. They may have in the past let crystals slide from a sharing perspective but that's now changed. This just brings things in line with any other CM item - why should crystals and tunings be exempt from a business point of view?

 

because its apparently oh my god so difficult to change a few numbers. if anything, put a reasonable price tag.

Edited July 12, 2017 by MotherCrusher

[Torvai]

It doesn't work? So you CAN still send legacy weapons with CM crystals/tunings in them to your alts? They should probably fix that if so.

 

Fairly certain the 2 minutes nonsense is hyperbole but hey if that's how ya roll, more power to you.

 

Also pretty sure they didn't KNOW it would be exploited to cut themselves out of profit, otherwise why would they bother fixing it now?

 

I get the impression you're arguing without knowng what is wrong here. So let me explain.

The patchnotes state: "Character bound Color Crystals and Weapon Tunings from the Cartel Market (direct sale or packs) can no longer be moved across characters via Legacy Weapons."

Meaning you should be able to move a legacy weapon around when it either doesn't contain a CM crystal/tuning(which works just fine) or said crystal/tuning is legacy unlocked already. But the latter part doesn't work. You can't send legacy stuff around as long as they have CM stuff in it. No matter if they are unlocked legacy wide or not. And this is what they are going to fix in a MONTH.

 

And yes, they could have literally tested if this works in 2 min tops: Have a legacy weapon, place a CM crytsal in it, try to put it in the legacy storage. Shouldn't work. Unlock the crystal for legacy, try again, should work(it doesn't). Takes literally 2 mins to try that. It took me less to find out I can't send my stuff around with legacy unlocked CM crystals in it yesterday.

 

And your last statement: Tunings cost even more to unlock than crystals. Of course people used the same trick to unlock them as they did with crystals.

[ultimarb]

Fix this ASAP.

This is not an issue which can be ignored until mid or end of august.

The new coding should have been ready yesterday when you implemented this new feature...

[Tachenko_Yuri]

Got it in one.

 

 

Also funny how Keith is calling it an exploit now when Eric explicitly stated in the past it was not an exploit. Basically they just realised they maybe can squeeze a few more dollars.

 

 

This. /5char

[unibim]

So internal communication is not a thing in bioware?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6346255&postcount=381

 

Correct, using a Legacy Weapon to move a Color Crystal which you pulled down from your Collections UI is not an exploit.

[Sumlina]

let me break this down to YOU. he says its an exploit related to legacy weapons. specifically transferring an item via legacy weapon and pulling it out, unlocking it for that character in collections. seeing as this was made impossible for both crystals AND weapon tunings, not just weapon tunings? he did indeed call it an exploit.

 

the principle of thing is that they took something that they stated was NOT an exploit and are now calling it one. he didn't say loophole. he said EXPLOIT. he very specificaly just accused a bulk of the playerbase of deliberately exploiting the game. for years. despite this originally being ok'd by previous management.

 

I totally want this game to be run by people who do this sort of thing /eyeroll

 

P.S. it is related to CSM in that 1. some people have tried to claim that using that machine copiously pre nerf was an exploit. 2. it was nerfed into the ground with very little warning. 3. it was a cartel market item people paid money for. but sure, not related at all.

 

meh, why do I even bother with you?

 

what's done is done. I'm just expressing my dissatisfaction with how it was handled. so much for "new hope" in Keith. sure lets leave the bugs that make the game difficult to enjoy present it game, must... hotfix... collections... yeah yeah, profits.... funny story.. if they tried to make the game more appealing to more people, polished it up a bit, and all... they would have more paying customers and less of a need to nickle and dime the few that remain.

 

 

Exactly. Also that guy has been here nearly 24 hours just arguing with every person pretty sure it's a carefully crafted troll.

[LasagnaSurfer]

Dude... you are mistaking feedback = automatically apply said feedback to the game.

 

Some feedback from players does in fact get incorporated into the game. Some does not. Deal with it.

 

There is no way that you aren't the intern that came up with this crap. You are literally the only one defending this pile of horse manure.

[Transcendent]

you are the one who didnt read it right apparently.

"Correct, using a Legacy Weapon to move a Color Crystal which you pulled down from your Collections UI is not an exploit"

"Not an exploit"

its exactly what we were doing with the crystals. pulling em from the collections and throwing to other alts using legacy weapons

 

Yes, but the part you seem to be missing is that if you subsequently remove that CM crystal (or tuning) from the legacy weapon on a different character than it was bound to, it was unlocking in collections on that new character. If you read the post by Eric carefully, it has no mention of subverting collection unlocks in this manner being considered an exploit does it?

 

You can quote that post as much as you like, it still has no mention of subverting collections unlocks in this manner being considered an exploit one way or the other. That has now been clarified by Keith, BioWare consider that subverting collection unlocks is an exploit.

 

Using CM crystals on different characters using legacy weapons wasn't considered an exploit, subverting collection unlocks using legacy weapons to transfer CM crystals and tunings is considered an exploit. There is a difference.

[LasagnaSurfer]

You don't HAVE to use cartel market crystals.

 

You don't have to play SWTOR either, but you do. So I use cartel market crystals (the ones they wanted me to buy with cash). I spent those USD in a fashion where it worked a particular way, verified by Eric Musco to be allowed, and thus I have an expectation for them to continue working that way.

 

Only a refund of USD cash could justify the change.

[Rrusalka]

I'm not going to defend BioWare for leaving the ability to subvert the collections unlock system, which clearly wasn't working as intended (unless you can name other items aside from Crystals and the newly introduced Tunings to the collection system?).

 

Look at the positives out of this for one moment;

 

• Players have had 4+ years of subverting the collections system and have saved CC for unlocking CM crystals.
  
• Players have had 1+ month of subverting the collections system and have saved CC for unlocking CM Tunings
  
• BioWare are not removing those CM Crystals and CM Tunings from players that have subverted the collections system (whichever way you want to dress that up, it's THEFT on the part of players).
  
• BioWare are not taking action against those players who have knowingly subverted the system.
  
• BioWare are going to implement a fix going forward.
  

 

Is one month or so of inconvenience really worth griping about when you look at the positives out of this? Absolutely it would have worked much better if we had been provided with weapons slots in the outfit designer prior to the fix to the collections unlocks.

 

However it isn't as bad as some players are really making out it is.

 

With bulletin three and four we will have to wait and see. They get quite aggressive when they name something an exploit. They were certainly able to remove items the last time they swung the ban hammer.

 

We will see what happens next month and move on from there. It would be nice if they put a rush to get the weapon designer out that they are teasing. I wish they'd also consider incorporating full legacy unlocks on any direct sale items on the CM. I'm not talking about items in packs or old items either. Just the special items they place on the weekly sales. One purchase fully unlocked adjust the account wide unlock into the price at a slight discount.

[MotherCrusher]

Yes, but the part you seem to be missing is that if you subsequently remove that CM crystal (or tuning) from the legacy weapon on a different character than it was bound to, it was unlocking in collections on that new character. If you read the post by Eric carefully, it has no mention of subverting collection unlocks in this manner being considered an exploit does it?

 

You can quote that post as much as you like, it still has no mention of subverting collections unlocks in this manner being considered an exploit one way or the other. That has now been clarified by Keith, BioWare consider that subverting collection unlocks is an exploit.

 

Using CM crystals on different characters using legacy weapons wasn't considered an exploit, subverting collection unlocks using legacy weapons to transfer CM crystals and tunings is considered an exploit. There is a difference.

 

how exactly does that matter, if i can just take 1 extra copy from collections and move that on the other char aswell? legacy weapons arent limited to one. patch out the unlocking glitch, i dont care, i can just move extra crystal ^^

just revert this change for the crystals and leave tunings patched. problem solved

Edited July 12, 2017 by MotherCrusher

[MeNaCe-NZ]

you are the one who didnt read it right apparently.

"Correct, using a Legacy Weapon to move a Color Crystal which you pulled down from your Collections UI is not an exploit"

"Not an exploit"

its exactly what we were doing with the crystals. pulling em from the collections and throwing to other alts using legacy weapons

 

And where has it been stated that's an exploit now? It was stated that using legacy weapons to transfer these items to other toons and then removing them to get the unlock on that toon is the exploit. Where did anyone ever say that wasn't an exploit?

 

Seriously try harder at basic comprehension please.

 

because its apparently oh my god so difficult to change a few numbers. if anything, put a reasonable price tag.

 

Right sorry, forgot all your developer skill and all your experience coding this game

[MotherCrusher]

 

 

 

Right sorry, forgot all your developer skill and all your experience coding this game

ok please describe me how do you think color crystals are being made. oh wait, of course, its changing RGB as i said.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

But the latter part doesn't work. You can't send legacy stuff around as long as they have CM stuff in it. No matter if they are unlocked legacy wide or not. And this is what they are going to fix in a MONTH.

 

Yes, fixed entirely in a month. Better than not fixed at all and from their perspective better than allowing people to exploit the game.

Will this stop you doing what you do now? No. Will it inconvenience you? Yes. That's all it is though, an inconvenience.

As someone stated earlier, thank everyone who was using the system to make legacy copies of items they never paid for.

 

 

And yes, they could have literally tested if this works in 2 min tops: Have a legacy weapon, place a CM crytsal in it, try to put it in the legacy storage. Shouldn't work. Unlock the crystal for legacy, try again, should work(it doesn't). Takes literally 2 mins to try that. It took me less to find out I can't send my stuff around with legacy unlocked CM crystals in it yesterday.

 

It's not the testing if it works "in 2 minutes" that's the issue here. It's the time and testing required to put the coding in to allow legacy weapons with unlocked tunings and crystals to be transferred and restricting those that aren't unlocked. Getting that part wrong in the past has resulted in crazy dupe exploits that contributed to making the economy the mess it is today.

 

And your last statement: Tunings cost even more to unlock than crystals. Of course people used the same trick to unlock them as they did with crystals.

 

That doesn't support your accusation that the devs knew this would happen ...

[Torvai]

And where has it been stated that's an exploit now? It was stated that using legacy weapons to transfer these items to other toons and then removing them to get the unlock on that toon is the exploit. Where did anyone ever say that wasn't an exploit?

 

Seriously try harder at basic comprehension please.

Start reading:

Correct, using a Legacy Weapon to move a Color Crystal which you pulled down from your Collections UI is not an exploit. This is the case because there is no way to manipulate the system to allow for a large amount of credit gain as there was prior to 2.1.0b.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6346255&postcount=381

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So internal communication is not a thing in bioware?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6346255&postcount=381

 

Is reading a thing in your company?

 

Key words in what you quoted are "to move" - does it say "to create legacy unlocks on other toons"? No it does not, this is what Keith is saying is an exploit. Try again.

[MotherCrusher]

Is reading a thing in your company?

 

Key words in what you quoted are "to move" - does it say "to create legacy unlocks on other toons"? No it does not, this is what Keith is saying is an exploit. Try again.

 

i reffer to my post above. it doesnt matter a single bit if i can transfer a second copy to the char.