In SWTOR the "Real" Game starts at level 1

[Quaade]

Nothing you do leveling really changes the endgame. You're companion hates you? Give him a gift. Your Darkside? Do Diplomacy.

 

You are also mistaken. Your choices wont bring you closure, or a different ending. In a Bioware RPG, yeah, a choice can make a difference in the ending.

 

Story in STOR is inconsequential. Nothing actually has any effect.

In STOR, kill X pirates gets quite boring. Then the dialog says i'm thinning/reducing their numbers. Really? If i go back and look, the exact same pirates are there. The exact same boss i killed is there. They aint foolin me!

 

Wow Phasing. - Should be standard tech on all new MMO's. I feel all MMO's should have phasing. It's just too important not to have anymore.

 

Amen, talk is cheap, well not in the case of TOR, but you know what the saying implies.

 

And that's all you get done, you get told what sort of effect your actions have and always trough cutscenes.

WoW shows it ingame and if it's something important enough to warrent it, then the gameworld will change. Action speaks louder than words and creates for a more compelling storytelling both for the people making it and the people experiencing it.

 

For the makers they have to think more about how this will affect the player and it can't be halfarsed either.

For the player they will always have a visual memory of that thing they did that made the world change in one way or the other, and not to mention, it's more engaging.

 

When I got a toon to Astranaar in the new levelling experience in Cataclysm I nearly went into a fit of rage at seeing my character's hometown burning and every orc I killed to was accompagnied by the words "die die DIE!"

Once the horde was beaten back and the fires put out it was all "This is my town *****es and stay out!!"

 

Had I just been told what happened it would had carried no emotionel significance or connection what so ever.

 

If anyone wants to see storytelling done right with visuals instead of exposition, download a trial of WoW, play a human and quest up untill and including Redridge.

It's a bit of a slow start though since they build it up very well but when it gets going, it really gets going.

[krookie]

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

 

The only impact the decisions I made had on my character (inquisitor) were a few emails with a few credits or a useless item and an NPC mentioned that I have a cult on Nar Shaddaa. Also my appearance gradually changed until I got to Dark V.

 

I wouldn't call this "impact." It's nice fluff but it's not a game changer.

[Spetsnazos]

No, 3 hours of cut scenes about go collect 10 X on each planet gets old very quickly.

 

this x infinity

[Diurdi]

Going to have to agree with the OP that the way WoW created "end-game" is just bad.

 

The way Eve-Online has it, is much better - with no clear distinction of "real game". It just keeps going and going.

[krookie]

Going to have to agree with the OP that the way WoW created "end-game" is just bad.

 

The way Eve-Online has it, is much better - with no clear distinction of "real game". It just keeps going and going.

 

TOR is going to have the same endgame that WoW has. It's going to be a never ending gear grind. Either you're running dailies and heroics or raids for new gear or you're farming warzones for PvP gear.

[Gargion]

I agree. It's a good experience.

[Zunayson]

 

There are very few quests that are only go kill 10 droids. That is in there ofcourse but it is usually only the bonus quest and not compulsory to complete the quest. The context set by the dialog makes the game so much more.

 

I'm sorry you don't feel this way.

 

100% of quests will be kill how ever many droids you need to pick up 10 droid motors. Don't kid yourself, I'm right. Or maybe it'll be collect 10 of these 5 hour respawn nodes that 16 other people are trying to do, when people are hesitant because they don't want to aggro the mobs guarding the nodes, giving them away to the others.

 

Yeah, they try to motivate you, saying it'll help research, and it may have nice dialogue and alignment, I'm talking only from the questing standpoint. It reminds me of that 5th grade online math homework. Motivating you with worthless crap. "Ohhh, solve these math problems to help find your way out of the dungeon!" Lol what the hell?

[Zunayson]

Don't fool yourself. All MMOs have a story that begins at level 1. Whether you choose to personally acknowledge it and allow yourself to enjoy the journey or not is another issue entirely. Not all of us need to have the quest dialogue read to us to enjoy a story.

 

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Okay, all MMOs at level 1. My World of Warcraft Warrior began infront of this guy who said kill 6 wolves. W00t! Yes! I sleighed some wolves, now I feel 1337 in skillz! Where's the story in that? There's no actual story.. there's a reason why said person wants you to do said task... sometimes.

[darthsector]

No, 3 hours of cut scenes about go collect 10 X on each planet gets old very quickly.

 

yeah mine are well done and give a story feel to them..

 

wow is the same u just dont notice anymore casue you have done it by memory so much that there is no cut scene to make u think..

 

WoW quests= go here, talk to that, get this, kill that, bring it back and collect..same thing..

 

SWTOR= go here talk to that get this kill that bring it back collect WITH A STORY, CHOICES TO EITHER CHANGE HOW THE QUEST TURNS OUT LIVE OR DIE, DO's AND DONTS...

 

in WoW instances or flashpoints dont change EVER...Black talon. captain lives diffrent flashpoint, captain dies, diffrent flashpoint...general lives,, general dies..

 

 

SWTOR is like choose your own adventure books...diffrent choices diffrent adventure..

[Klarick]

SWTOR is like choose your own adventure books...diffrent choices diffrent adventure..

 

So true! Its awesome to have a purpose to the questing other than just grinding to end-cap.

[Bloodtau]

You want to check out guild wars 2 then. At level 1 you are fighting massive bosses.

[hulduet]

The whole leveling system is just old and needs to be put down. There are games that have done well without the need for a "level" system. It's just different. Maybe we aren't ready for it yet.

[Chaput]

Totally agree with the OP

[ChuangTzu]

100% of quests will be kill how ever many droids you need to pick up 10 droid motors. Don't kid yourself, I'm right. Or maybe it'll be collect 10 of these 5 hour respawn nodes that 16 other people are trying to do, when people are hesitant because they don't want to aggro the mobs guarding the nodes, giving them away to the others.

 

Yeah, they try to motivate you, saying it'll help research, and it may have nice dialogue and alignment, I'm talking only from the questing standpoint. It reminds me of that 5th grade online math homework. Motivating you with worthless crap. "Ohhh, solve these math problems to help find your way out of the dungeon!" Lol what the hell?

 

So why are you here and not doing some thing else that you do enjoy?

Edited December 29, 2011 by ChuangTzu

[Oappo]

The whole leveling system is just old and needs to be put down. There are games that have done well without the need for a "level" system. It's just different. Maybe we aren't ready for it yet.

 

What games are you talking about exactly?

 

I agree with OP. It's awesome. I'm particularly liking the Sith Inquisitor and Bounty Hunter stories. The Jedi Knight story is getting interesting as well.

[rjcain]

Like every other Bioware game... you are correct.

 

Sadly as an MMO, this game starts much later.

[Badbonez]

Funny thing...in the end, it's all a grind. It's just entertainment. You could log in and hit the space bar all day and it wouldn't change anything in your life, but if it amuses you go for it! It's just a diversion from RL.

 

Personally, I'm digging it for now. It is an amusing diversion and I'll play it until it bores me. I played WoW for 6 years before that happened...so who knows?

[Talimar]

It may be mechanically the same underneath, but that is not the point. The story makes us feel powerful in a way that killing rats just can't.

[RealaY]

Actually, I find they disguise the grinding so well that it never feels like grinding.

 

There are very few quests that tell you "go kill X enemies." most of those are just bonus objectives that you would have done anyway while trying to complete your current quest.

 

This game right from the beginning is great.

 

For those who think its aggravating to listen to all the dialogue, I think you are either missing the point of the game, or it's just not for you. It was one of the selling points of the game...

[Lord_Itharius]

For me, SWTOR began at lvl 1 and ended at lvl 49. The endgame is a joke.

[Bionixx]

I am not level 50 yet but I look at things differently. For me, in WoW which I played for 7 years, when you were below the level cap, you were playing the tutorial and the real game started at 60/70/80/85. Everything else was filler and to be rushed through.

 

In ToR, I see it as 2 different games. You play the singleplayer experience from 1-49 where it's mostly the story. From time to time there are some multiplayer components in terms of heroic quests and flashpoints, and personally I've only done 1 warzone.

 

Then you get to 50 and it's a much more traditional MMO experience where it's mostly group content, PvE and PvP with some singleplayer missions still available (I'm kind of a completionist so I go back and redo missed quests not that I leave many in the first place).

 

Both games have their merits and I'll enjoy them both but what I love about TOR is that I feel no need to rush my 1-49 experience.

[Apax]

Don't fool yourself. All MMOs have a story that begins at level 1. Whether you choose to personally acknowledge it and allow yourself to enjoy the journey or not is another issue entirely. Not all of us need to have the quest dialogue read to us to enjoy a story.

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Okay, all MMOs at level 1. My World of Warcraft Warrior began infront of this guy who said kill 6 wolves. W00t! Yes! I sleighed some wolves, now I feel 1337 in skillz! Where's the story in that? There's no actual story.. there's a reason why said person wants you to do said task... sometimes.

 

Apparently what you missed was reading the story. I guess if a voice actor is not verbalizing the instructions for you, you just see "kill 6 wolves". In reality there is usually an involved story behind the quests.

 

Here is an example of a starter quest for WoW:

"So you're the new recruit from Stormwind, eh? I'm Marshal McBride, commander of this garrison. Glad to have you on board...

 

<McBride looks through some papers.>

 

Zunayson. It is Zunayson, right?

 

You've arrived just in time. The Blackrock orcs have managed to sneak into Northshire through a break in the mountain. My soldiers are doing the best that they can to push them back, but I fear they will be overwhelmed soon.

 

Head northwest into the forest and kill the attacking Blackrock worgs! Help my soldiers! "

 

The only difference here is that you're reading this off a quest dialogue box instead of hearing a voice actor speak the lines while an animated character on the screen gestures. I'm not saying that isn't an improvement for some players, but to suggest there was never a story during the leveling process is just silly.

 

Heck, the original Stormwind-Defias storyline started at level 1 and carried the player well past level 20.

 

In fact, let's take this a step further and make it a Bioware quest:

 

"So you're the new recruit from Stormwind, eh? I'm Marshal McBride, commander of this garrison. Glad to have you on board...

 

1) Glad to be here.

2) How much does this gig pay?

3) Like I have any choice.

 

<McBride looks through some papers.>

 

Zunayson. It is Zunayson, right?

 

1) That's correct.

2) If that's what it says on the paper, sure.

3) Pronounce it wrong again and we're going to have a real problem.

 

You've arrived just in time. The Blackrock orcs have managed to sneak into Northshire through a break in the mountain. My soldiers are doing the best that they can to push them back, but I fear they will be overwhelmed soon.

 

1) How can I help?

2) If there's money involved, just point me in the right direction.

3) Sucks to be you. [Refuse quest]

 

Head northwest into the forest and kill the attacking Blackrock worgs! Help my soldiers! "

Edited December 29, 2011 by Apax

[Lethality]

All I can say is that you and I are obviously playing a different game. In my SWTOR the missions are incredibly well written and voice-acted. WHat BW has done here is nothing short of spectacular.

 

It goes to show how subjectivity works.

 

I can say for myself hat a 2-3 minute cut scene is far too long to end up with "Go get 5 holorecords from some droids you have to kill". Over the course of an evening, I estimate at least 30 minutes wasted in scenarios like that.

 

It's fine for the key class story missions and decisions... but for the regular run of the mill MMO quest, which is most of them, it's not a good thing.

[Raphael_diSanto]

Agreed. The story is great not beyond the capital world, and is too slow paced, because they couldn't get a long term story written in, just "track down these guys". And quite frankly, it gets boring. I'd rather be tracking 30 things, and get 1 of them per day. Much more satisfying. I'm sorry, but really. 99.99999999999you9get9the9point999 percent of all quests in this game are "Click A of Bs", "Kill C of Ds to loot Es", or "Walk to point F", or, on God-Forbid, although hopefully on a rare occasion, the plain "kill G of Hs". Every. Single. EVERY. SINGLE ONE! FIND ME ONE WHERE THAT ISN'T THE GIST OF IT!

 

/nerdgasm rage

 

Saving the brother in the Justicar area in Coruscant. There's no kill x or y, or collect x of y. There's countless other examples of sidequests where you -aren't- doing verb number noun, but that's just the first one that came to mind.

[Raphael_diSanto]

It goes to show how subjectivity works.

 

I can say for myself hat a 2-3 minute cut scene is far too long to end up with "Go get 5 holorecords from some droids you have to kill". Over the course of an evening, I estimate at least 30 minutes wasted in scenarios like that.

 

It's fine for the key class story missions and decisions... but for the regular run of the mill MMO quest, which is most of them, it's not a good thing.

 

You call it wasted, I call it entertaining and cinematic gameplay.

 

Potayto, potahto. If you didn't -want- fully voiced sidequest mission givers, why did you buy the game in the first place? BioWare hasn't done a game where all mission givers weren't full voiced since the original KoTOR.