How does our feedback work

[Lunafox]

Charles,

 

I'm a story player and love it, you can't give me enough story to be honest. I liked the monthly chapters, because it gave us something to look forward to each month. Getting new content regularly made the game fun and exciting.

 

I was really disappointed when you guys decided to cut back on those chapters because of how it affects the companion returns. I was looking forward to an epic reunion with my loved ones and I waited patiently (for over a year and maybe more) for the one I really wanted (Malavai Quinn) and the other one, Scourge who we haven't gotten back yet.

 

To be honest, I feel ripped off. I waited for over a year for Quinn to be returned and there was barely any interaction, no fade-to-black scene and no proper resolution to them actually being back. It left me cold, is what it did. When I compare that with Kaliyo's return I get very ANGRY. I feel like I matter less to you people as a player because of my companion preference. Kaliyo was given the chance to interact and run with the player the whole chapter and beyond. I barely got to see Malavai or interact with him beyond a very few measly lines. Then there is the matter of decor...most of the companions got a commemorative statue after the chapter in the packs and I would have loved to have Malavai Quinn's statue but no such luck, so in this regard, I feel like I was screwed over in story, in terms of deco and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I hope you will reconsider your direction with the companions and flesh out their return stories. I'm hoping that you will give Scourge a proper return and make him a love interest companion. He's the only other companion besides Vector that are still left to get that I care about. I would like more justice done to the reunions between players and their love interest companions.

 

The other thing about the stories is that the first 1-50 story focuses on US the player and why WE were IMPORTANT. And it was great fun. Then it became all about the Kardashians, I mean, the Valkorions and because of them, I, as a player felt like second fiddle like I was no longer important. It was all about them. Yes, by the end we over come them, but that feeling that we're special just didn't match up with the exhilaration of the 1-50 story chapters.

 

There are still many companions to return and if this last reunion was any indication of the quality of the companion return story, it's sorely lacking and quite frankly disappointing.

 

You have ignored Scourge for so long--he is the most fleshed out and interesting companion in the game, with so much rich history and interaction with the past and you dropped the ball everytime with Revan. Please make this up and do right by him. He's amazing, his VA is amazing and for once, I'd like to be overwhelmed with the awesomeness this game could be, instead of slinking around disappointed because it failed my expectations.

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's how I feel and I needed to say it. Please make the companions whole. They're important and quite easily, if done right like in 1-50 the BEST part of the whole game.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Lunafox

[Deewe]

The other thing about the stories is that the first 1-50 story focuses on US the player and why WE were IMPORTANT. And it was great fun. Then it became all about the Kardashians, I mean, the Valkorions.

There I spilled my drink all over my desk.

 

Still laughing, ...made my day.

 

Thank you for that.

[Lunafox]

There I spilled my drink all over my desk.

 

Still laughing, ...made my day.

 

Thank you for that.

 

Glad to have amused. Cheers!

[Xo-Lara]

So as you can all see from reading this thread, opinions tend to vary, which makes assessing story feedback very difficult

 

Story is a personal and emotional experience by design, so feelings about it run high and can be polarizing. It is impossible to change an experience like that retroactively through arguments or debates, so I would urge everyone to be respectful, share your thoughts, and not make it about being "right" or "wrong".

 

As a point of clarification, when I mentioned that we condensed the story based on feedback, it was not that we felt the overall story of KOTFE/monthly chapters were received poorly at large (quite the opposite, really) it was that the pacing of the story was widely seen as too slow/drawn out. We took that feedback, assessed our plans, ultimately agreed, and made a change.

 

One last note about numbers: it's commonly asked how we balance feedback against data and metrics, so this is a great place to use as an example. Numerically speaking, KOTFE and KOTET were our most successful expansions by a very significant margin. We didn't change anything in the story based on numbers (the numbers would've said to keep doing exactly what we were doing), we changed them based on the passionate feedback we received from y'all.

 

So keep it up! But, y'know, be cool to each other in the process

 

If original companions had been rushed back or not taken away, I suspect people would have been more patient. I believe the real impatience came from not knowing how many more chapters until a favorite companion came back.

 

However, I personally felt the slow pacing issue was that it felt like we were waiting for things to happen to us as the Outlander rather than taking charge and picking a direction. Lana and Theron mostly just told us what to do and where to show up. That's probably a place where players could have been more in the driver's seat storywise.

 

If players feel like they have more agency, you will probably have less problem with players attention span fading out. I made a thread about it a little while ago here. Changing the focus so the story is told with the Outlander figuring out who to go to and telling their team when to jump might produce more intended results.

 

A side note to that is that I felt, as the alliance, we didn't have enough smaller conflict goals to build up to along the way. It felt as though we handwaved the alliance build up phase in the first speech montage. I feel we needed to have more Profit and Plunder like goals throughout a "buildup phase" on our way taking down Arcann, maybe with him frustrating our plans a time or two. I had expected more chess than who can make super saiyan faster.

 

If just feels like we rushed to taking on the Big Bads at the expense of the build up that makes it satisfying to take them down.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Xo-Lara

[docbenwayddo]

...

One last note about numbers: it's commonly asked how we balance feedback against data and metrics, so this is a great place to use as an example. Numerically speaking, KOTFE and KOTET were our most successful expansions by a very significant margin. We didn't change anything in the story based on numbers (the numbers would've said to keep doing exactly what we were doing), we changed them based on the passionate feedback we received from y'all. ...

 

The context of data and metrics matters. Numerically speaking, my continuous sub throughout the whole Valkorion reality show counts as +1 for "Yay KotFE/ET!"

Numerically speaking that same consistent sub could only stomach inflicting that galaxy on 7.7% of the alts they play(ed) daily.

I highly doubt these two "metrics" are ever looked at by the same person.

 

I am a story player and prefer to keep 92% of the characters I play in a Stuck at Ziost galaxy, hoping against hope for a reset or bypass to leave them untainted by anything Kot-related, and experience future story.

 

Any time I start trying to give coherent feedback on my issues with 4.0/5.0 I get into incoherent tangents of related annoyance or incoherent due to liberal use of scatological profanity, so never post it.

I will be able to some day but for now the summation is:

KotFE/ET made a galaxy that I don't want my characters in and characters that are in it / been through that story are, for no measurable reason, less fun to play.

 

I have to thank the buggy mess at release. If I hadn't been so busy with the inventory / mail mess, 80% MIA ship droids, all missing HK customs I wouldn't have noticed the (still) broken Courting Gifts and held off. I might have started it with more characters than I did.

I'm not sure my sub would have survived that kind of (perceived fun) loss.

Edited June 23, 2017 by docbenwayddo

[Andryah]

The other thing about the stories is that the first 1-50 story focuses on US the player and why WE were IMPORTANT. And it was great fun.

 

This is true. Though I'm not upset that they shifted story focus after 50. Why?

 

Because I see 1-50 as our journey in growing up as a player character and preparing for different challenges. Being all grown up now... we move out into the wider galaxy to deal with whatever evil tyrants we come across. So in that sense.. which by the way follows classic mythology based story telling (see Chris Voglers "A Heros Journey for how story telling is performed in human history and how it factors into the actual structure of screen plays, novels, even games) .... we grew up and went out to explore, slay tyrants and protect the galaxy as we begin middle age and onward to old age.

 

Lucas' original approach to space opera in his screen plays for Star Wars are quite consistent with the concept of The Heros Journey... and as such.. this MMO largely follows the model... albeit in a different time line and within the natural constraints presented by an MMO format. Of course in an MMO format, you cannot follow the approach exactly.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Andryah

[ZionHalcyon]

Charles,

 

I'm a story player and love it, you can't give me enough story to be honest. I liked the monthly chapters, because it gave us something to look forward to each month. Getting new content regularly made the game fun and exciting.

 

I was really disappointed when you guys decided to cut back on those chapters because of how it affects the companion returns. I was looking forward to an epic reunion with my loved ones and I waited patiently (for over a year and maybe more) for the one I really wanted (Malavai Quinn) and the other one, Scourge who we haven't gotten back yet.

 

To be honest, I feel ripped off. I waited for over a year for Quinn to be returned and there was barely any interaction, no fade-to-black scene and no proper resolution to them actually being back. It left me cold, is what it did. When I compare that with Kaliyo's return I get very ANGRY. I feel like I matter less to you people as a player because of my companion preference. Kaliyo was given the chance to interact and run with the player the whole chapter and beyond. I barely got to see Malavai or interact with him beyond a very few measly lines. Then there is the matter of decor...most of the companions got a commemorative statue after the chapter in the packs and I would have loved to have Malavai Quinn's statue but no such luck, so in this regard, I feel like I was screwed over in story, in terms of deco and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I hope you will reconsider your direction with the companions and flesh out their return stories. I'm hoping that you will give Scourge a proper return and make him a love interest companion. He's the only other companion besides Vector that are still left to get that I care about. I would like more justice done to the reunions between players and their love interest companions.

 

The other thing about the stories is that the first 1-50 story focuses on US the player and why WE were IMPORTANT. And it was great fun. Then it became all about the Kardashians, I mean, the Valkorions and because of them, I, as a player felt like second fiddle like I was no longer important. It was all about them. Yes, by the end we over come them, but that feeling that we're special just didn't match up with the exhilaration of the 1-50 story chapters.

 

There are still many companions to return and if this last reunion was any indication of the quality of the companion return story, it's sorely lacking and quite frankly disappointing.

 

You have ignored Scourge for so long--he is the most fleshed out and interesting companion in the game, with so much rich history and interaction with the past and you dropped the ball everytime with Revan. Please make this up and do right by him. He's amazing, his VA is amazing and for once, I'd like to be overwhelmed with the awesomeness this game could be, instead of slinking around disappointed because it failed my expectations.

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's how I feel and I needed to say it. Please make the companions whole. They're important and quite easily, if done right like in 1-50 the BEST part of the whole game.

 

Many of us feel the same way.

[Deewe]

KotFE/ET made a galaxy that I don't want my characters in and characters that are in it / been through that story are, for no measurable reason, less fun to play.

You are not alone. I only have one character that went through them, the rest are parked story wise. it was of an issue as I could not bring caped characters to Iokath because you had to do to story to do so.

[Eshvara]

I never quite understood when people don't want to do kotfe in order to "keep" their companions After your vanilla story is over your interaction with your companions is mainly over? Is it any different from getting them back from the terminal until they officially come back? I do know there is the difference of the ship at least, which feels like a ghost ship, though for me time spent there is quite minor! Having them there is nice though.

 

But is the only reason people don't do it because of the ship problem or is there something else I'm missing?

[Deewe]

I never quite understood when people don't want to do kotfe in order to "keep" their companions

 

**snip**

I do know there is the difference of the ship at least, which feels like a ghost ship

Empty huge ships totally breaks the immersion

[ZionHalcyon]

I never quite understood when people don't want to do kotfe in order to "keep" their companions After your vanilla story is over your interaction with your companions is mainly over? Is it any different from getting them back from the terminal until they officially come back? I do know there is the difference of the ship at least, which feels like a ghost ship, though for me time spent there is quite minor! Having them there is nice though.

 

But is the only reason people don't do it because of the ship problem or is there something else I'm missing?

 

Beginning part of the KotFE story is you losing all your companions. You don't get them all back right away, and because they had to cut all the returns short, some people are still waiting to get their original companions back.

[Eshvara]

Beginning part of the KotFE story is you losing all your companions. You don't get them all back right away, and because they had to cut all the returns short, some people are still waiting to get their original companions back.

 

Yeah I know that, I just wondered if the ship thing was the main reason people didn't want to start kotfe, as to my knowledge getting them back from the terminal isn't much different from them no longer responding to you after the vanilla story ends.

 

Not that I'm trying to say people's reasons are invalid, I'm just curious really!

I do miss having them on my ship, though for me it didn't stop me from playing kotfe on mains and alts.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Eshvara

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So as you can all see from reading this thread, opinions tend to vary, which makes assessing story feedback very difficult

 

Story is a personal and emotional experience by design, so feelings about it run high and can be polarizing. It is impossible to change an experience like that retroactively through arguments or debates, so I would urge everyone to be respectful, share your thoughts, and not make it about being "right" or "wrong".

 

As a point of clarification, when I mentioned that we condensed the story based on feedback, it was not that we felt the overall story of KOTFE/monthly chapters were received poorly at large (quite the opposite, really) it was that the pacing of the story was widely seen as too slow/drawn out. We took that feedback, assessed our plans, ultimately agreed, and made a change.

 

One last note about numbers: it's commonly asked how we balance feedback against data and metrics, so this is a great place to use as an example. Numerically speaking, KOTFE and KOTET were our most successful expansions by a very significant margin. We didn't change anything in the story based on numbers (the numbers would've said to keep doing exactly what we were doing), we changed them based on the passionate feedback we received from y'all.

 

So keep it up! But, y'know, be cool to each other in the process

 

When you say KOTFE AND KOTET were the most successful are you saying individually or are you adding the numbers from both together?

 

I.e. are you saying Kotet was more successful than 3.0 or 2.0? I honestly find this incredibly hard to believe as all metrics that we can see point to the opposite.

[Ylliarus]

So as you can all see from reading this thread, opinions tend to vary, which makes assessing story feedback very difficult

 

Story is a personal and emotional experience by design, so feelings about it run high and can be polarizing. It is impossible to change an experience like that retroactively through arguments or debates, so I would urge everyone to be respectful, share your thoughts, and not make it about being "right" or "wrong".

 

As a point of clarification, when I mentioned that we condensed the story based on feedback, it was not that we felt the overall story of KOTFE/monthly chapters were received poorly at large (quite the opposite, really) it was that the pacing of the story was widely seen as too slow/drawn out. We took that feedback, assessed our plans, ultimately agreed, and made a change.

 

One last note about numbers: it's commonly asked how we balance feedback against data and metrics, so this is a great place to use as an example. Numerically speaking, KOTFE and KOTET were our most successful expansions by a very significant margin. We didn't change anything in the story based on numbers (the numbers would've said to keep doing exactly what we were doing), we changed them based on the passionate feedback we received from y'all.

 

So keep it up! But, y'know, be cool to each other in the process

 

Charles, if I may ask one thing about the story? Why did the Dark Council have to be removed? I get that Acina had to make such a move if she wanted to become Empress of the Sith, but the Dark Council was such an iconic part of the SWTOR lore setting. I don't think we had something in Star Wars before, where 12 Dark Lords of the Sith considered themselves among equals when together but secretly thought differently. The Sith politics played out amongst the Dark Council members was some of my absolute favourite content in both the game but also in the novels. It was such an iconic part of SWTOR that I really am sad that they had to be removed permanently (seemingly).

 

Please, please consider reinstating the Dark Council as the new Head of State of the Sith Empire in the future. Either have them assume the spot of Sith Emperor, or have it so that the strongest of Council members becomes Emperor/Empress for as long as they are considered to be such and can hold onto their power. It would be so cool and interesting to have different Sith Emperors and Empresses. With Vitiate there was one all powerful one for so long, so having several with some short and some longer reigns would be a very interesting and intriguing feature. The same would go for no Sith Emperor/Empress and the Dark Council seizing that power.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Exly]

So as you can all see from reading this thread, opinions tend to vary, which makes assessing story feedback very difficult

 

Story is a personal and emotional experience by design, so feelings about it run high and can be polarizing. It is impossible to change an experience like that retroactively through arguments or debates, so I would urge everyone to be respectful, share your thoughts, and not make it about being "right" or "wrong".

 

As a point of clarification, when I mentioned that we condensed the story based on feedback, it was not that we felt the overall story of KOTFE/monthly chapters were received poorly at large (quite the opposite, really) it was that the pacing of the story was widely seen as too slow/drawn out. We took that feedback, assessed our plans, ultimately agreed, and made a change.

 

One last note about numbers: it's commonly asked how we balance feedback against data and metrics, so this is a great place to use as an example. Numerically speaking, KOTFE and KOTET were our most successful expansions by a very significant margin. We didn't change anything in the story based on numbers (the numbers would've said to keep doing exactly what we were doing), we changed them based on the passionate feedback we received from y'all.

 

So keep it up! But, y'know, be cool to each other in the process

 

Beyond story, KotFE made it so that all operations and flashpoints were once again relevant at max level, and that contributed greatly to players that I knew deciding to return to the game. The problem is that KotFE shored up the foundation of end game pve content, but did not build on that foundation. Then when it became clear that there would be no meaningful end game content for the pve community with the launch of KotET, people left the game, and now none of those people that I know have any interest in returning unless or until this issue has been addressed, and multiple new operations are made available.

 

As far as the story goes, I know that I really liked the first eight chapters of KotFE, and I eagerly awaited chapter ten's release. Unfortunately, chapters ten through fourteen were unnecessary in my opinion, and the events in chapters fifteen and sixteen would have made for cool content for one or two operations, and would have better represented what was happening in the story if they had been developed that way instead of being developed as episodic chapters to finish the story.

 

Then we have KotET. i have played through it exactly one time, and even then I let myself drag my feet and didn't complete it until a couple of months after launch. The truth is, that after the disappointing last half of the KotFE story line, and the less than compelling story of the first few chapters of KotET, I really didn't care how the story was going to end. I also disliked having to do some of the content as a walker or whatever, and have no desire to replay the content because really not enjoying what you did.

 

Furthermore, I know several people that still have not completed the KotET chapters, and I suspect they never will. You lost them as an audience, and from what they have told me, the money that you spent on story and other single player elements of the game like star fortress heroics, the eternal championship, and uprisings would have been much better spent if you brought us more operations, warzones, and flashpoints.

 

Lastly, I assume that the feedback that you speak of was also the derived from the sound of players unsubbing from the game at a pace so fast that it might have made your heads spin. I have no doubts that KotFE was the most successful expansion that this game has ever seen, but I suspect that it is also responsible for the greatest loss of subs too, and that fact probably had more to do with your decision to abandon your 'solo only' focus for content that you adopted ever since KotFE launched than anything else that we have said or done.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Exly

[Xo-Lara]

I don't particularly care for group content, but I do like star fortresses. It might be a matter of misdirected targets though. It might appeal more to people like me more than people who like group content.

 

I know that much of 5.0 felt like the rewards appealing to one group were targeted at other groups. Also it felt like there was an endless carrot on a stick problem. It quickly became obvious that giving up on the carrot would get you the carrot as fast as chasing it.

[Artanisia]

Sorry, for me returning missing companions in sub-par chapters (like you already did with Quinn and Dorne) is a bad decision. It smacks of depriving story-loving players of content they love to appease a different group of players.

 

I loved the more elaborate chapters, I especiallly loved the KotFE/KotET format of monthly story chapters. Without them I feel less and less inclined to log in. The only thing to do is that insane grind that is the exact opposite of fun ( sorry, I already have a job) and I am really questioning myself if I should pay for that.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Artanisia

[commanderwar]

Charles,

 

I'm a story player and love it, you can't give me enough story to be honest. I liked the monthly chapters, because it gave us something to look forward to each month. Getting new content regularly made the game fun and exciting.

 

I was really disappointed when you guys decided to cut back on those chapters because of how it affects the companion returns. I was looking forward to an epic reunion with my loved ones and I waited patiently (for over a year and maybe more) for the one I really wanted (Malavai Quinn) and the other one, Scourge who we haven't gotten back yet.

 

To be honest, I feel ripped off. I waited for over a year for Quinn to be returned and there was barely any interaction, no fade-to-black scene and no proper resolution to them actually being back. It left me cold, is what it did. When I compare that with Kaliyo's return I get very ANGRY. I feel like I matter less to you people as a player because of my companion preference. Kaliyo was given the chance to interact and run with the player the whole chapter and beyond. I barely got to see Malavai or interact with him beyond a very few measly lines. Then there is the matter of decor...most of the companions got a commemorative statue after the chapter in the packs and I would have loved to have Malavai Quinn's statue but no such luck, so in this regard, I feel like I was screwed over in story, in terms of deco and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

I hope you will reconsider your direction with the companions and flesh out their return stories. I'm hoping that you will give Scourge a proper return and make him a love interest companion. He's the only other companion besides Vector that are still left to get that I care about. I would like more justice done to the reunions between players and their love interest companions.

 

The other thing about the stories is that the first 1-50 story focuses on US the player and why WE were IMPORTANT. And it was great fun. Then it became all about the Kardashians, I mean, the Valkorions and because of them, I, as a player felt like second fiddle like I was no longer important. It was all about them. Yes, by the end we over come them, but that feeling that we're special just didn't match up with the exhilaration of the 1-50 story chapters.

 

There are still many companions to return and if this last reunion was any indication of the quality of the companion return story, it's sorely lacking and quite frankly disappointing.

 

You have ignored Scourge for so long--he is the most fleshed out and interesting companion in the game, with so much rich history and interaction with the past and you dropped the ball everytime with Revan. Please make this up and do right by him. He's amazing, his VA is amazing and for once, I'd like to be overwhelmed with the awesomeness this game could be, instead of slinking around disappointed because it failed my expectations.

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's how I feel and I needed to say it. Please make the companions whole. They're important and quite easily, if done right like in 1-50 the BEST part of the whole game.

 

this is just a theory but I think iokath was not suppose to be release until the next expansion. the reason I think this is because Ben irving said in a last stream "no story until the next expansion", so my guess they change there plans when they decided to release the operation bosses when it is finish, so the Iokath story arc is going to be release in pieces until the operation bosses are finish because each part is about the operation boss so my guess the next story is 5.3 with Ense bosses. so that why elara and Mal comp are hardly in this part

[Lunafox]

this is just a theory but I think iokath was not suppose to be release until the next expansion. the reason I think this is because Ben irving said in a last stream "no story until the next expansion", so my guess they change there plans when they decided to release the operation bosses when it is finish, so the Iokath story arc is going to be release in pieces until the operation bosses are finish because each part is about the operation boss so my guess the next story is 5.3 with Ense bosses. so that why elara and Mal comp are hardly in this part

 

I hope you're right, because as it stands, it feels dreadfully unfinished and unsatisfying. There needs to be more there, and like you say, with the bit about the traitor, it feels like there should be more coming to complete that story, because my SW doesn't feel like she's managed to reunite with her husband at all, it just feels like they crossed paths and there hasn't really been an indication that he's going to go with her and that they'll be able to pick up where they left off.

 

I don't comment on Dorne because, I don't like her and I don't play trooper through the newer chapters, but I would imagine those who like her are pretty ticked off too.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I did get some evidence and posted it - notably BEFORE you made this comment. I posted links from the first 5 pages alone (about 6) with different people and their complaints about various aspects of the story if not the story as a whole.

 

The other guy didn't, and you haven't provided any.

 

What do I need evidence of exactly? What have I posted that I need to prove? You posted a few examples that in no way goes to prove your ludicrous concept of ...

 

I think if you, in an honest way, skimmed through the forums and pulled every example of those for the story and those against going back back right after KotFE launched, you would find find same small group of people defending the story and a much much much larger group who either didn't like it or got so fed up with it that they left the game.

 

You have not done this at all, you can't even pretend to have done this. Try again.

 

 

So frankly, you are the guys talking nonsense, making strawman attacks, and failing miserably to represent what you guys say as truth, instead treating it as truth just because you said it, which by the way, no one made you the authority.

 

Strawman attacks? You don't seem to understand the concept - where have I misrepresented your argument as something it's not? I have directly quoted you every time and spoken EXACTLY to what you posted.

However you implying I've not provided evidence for some argument I never made and also stating that I "failing miserably to represent what I say as truth" (whatever the hell that means) without actually demonstrating what it is I apparently "represent as truth" is indeed a strawman argument - you are arguing against a point I never actually made.

 

Stick the the posts I actually make, not the ones you imagine.

 

 

And before you try the Pee Wee Herman "I know you are but what am I" retort, keep in mind, I provided some proof of my claims - which is what separates me from the type of argument you guys are making;

 

You have not provided any evidence to support the statement I quoted - you cherryp icked just what you needed to be able to say "some people didn't enjoy everything about the story". Stop pretending I'm making some argument that I'm not.

Feel free to go back on my post history for my true thoughts on the feeling around story.

 

I am not representing myself as the authority or even spokesperson. I provided links so that any person willing to actually investigate and not just talk out their rear can see different people from my self with similar complaints about the KOTFE story, and that it is still fresh enough that there are 6 threads in the first 5 pages as of last night, whereas there was only 1 thread giving kudos in the first 5 pages to an aspect of the story.

 

Which proves most people disliked the story in your world? You stated if someone were to go through all threads they would find more people disliking the story or leaving the game than enjoying it. You implied someone else should do this. I implied how about you do it yourself. You've not done this, anything you say from that point is nonsense until you at least complete the task you set out as a means to prove your case.

 

Stop being lazy and get busy.

[Deewe]

You lost them as an audience, and from what they have told me, the money that you spent on story and other single player elements of the game like star fortress heroics, the eternal championship, and uprisings would have been much better spent if you brought us more operations, warzones, and flashpoints.

The uprisings are the new multiplayer content.

 

It's a way for BioWare to develop mutiplayer content spending the least possible time and money as reusing most of the assets. It also allows them to publish them much faster.

 

Some will disagree but the budget spent in changing, once again the classes, was a wrong decision. The classes needed tweaking only. The time spent on the classes should have been invested in content.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Deewe

[Icykill_]

I'm going to counter this by saying there are other, more appropriate ways to buff Sorc survivability than to worry about their self-heals. Like increasing their ability to kite.

 

Regardless, those weren't mentioned and Lightning isn't having anything done to it in 5.3.

The reduction of those self heals and buffs is only weakening the class more.

None of that has to happen. It's not the Sorc class that's OP, it the healing spec, nerf the spec, not the class.

[OldVengeance]

This is a great chance to talk about story, and how folks' feedback on story is integrated. Let's use KOTFE, the monthly chapters, and KOTET as the example.

 

A) The original plan was that we would have a trilogy of "Knights of" expansions focused on dealing with Valkorion and his Eternal Empire, with episodic chapters between them. The major story beats would occur in the expansions, while the episodic chapters would be just that: episodic, mostly stand-alone beats focused on returning companions and side stories.

 

B) The most common issues that we saw from the community feedback after KOTFE and the first few monthly chapters were:

1. The story felt dragged out (monthly chapters in particular)
   
2. At least partly due to #1, the companion-focused chapters were not as well-received as the KOTFE ones (although desire to get companions back remained high).
   
3. Many players felt that there weren't enough choices in the storyline with big enough impacts/consequences, or that those impacts/consequences were delayed so far that they didn't feel meaningful or connected.
   
4. Some folks simply didn't like the core premise. Introducing a new empire, expanding on Vitiate/Valkorion, players frozen in carbonite for five years, missing companions, etc.
   

 

C) Changes that were made as a result of that feedback:

1. We compressed the story such that it would be completed in Knights of the Eternal Throne.
   
2. Later monthly chapters were modified to focus more on the core storyline, and less on companion returns.
   
3. The writers constructed the storyline of KOTET specifically to offer bigger choices that would pay off in visible and interesting ways.
   
4. This was the core creative vision of the entire thing, so there wasn't much changed here - it wouldn't really be feasible. That's not to say that we ignored this feedback or don't take it seriously; it's just that any creative endeavor has some core concept at its heart that can't be changed without scrapping everything. This was the story direction that excited us as creators and fans, so it's the one we pursued even as we made the above changes along the way.
   

 

D) The end result: the overall storyline was cut down by more than a third so that it would play out more quickly, while simultaneously introducing more choices and consequences. Companion returns had to be put on the backburner to achieve these changes, and my original plan to do entire chapters for each of them just aren't feasible at this point, so we're currently working on plans to get them back as expediently as possible. (If I sound a little sad about that part in particular, I am, but I think it's perfectly reasonable that folks are out of patience on that one )

 

Overall, story is one of the most difficult areas to implement feedback, since we've usually constructed the next several beats by the time players see any of it and provide feedback. But hopefully this post helps to demonstrate that we still try very hard to implement feedback-driven changes into story regardless of the challenges.

 

Keep the great posts and thoughts - and especially feedback! - coming

 

I had mixed feelings reading this. But it does provide some clarity on the whole situation.

 

I was really excited for the prospect of the new story announced for Fallen Empire. And I'm someone who falls on the side of having generally liked the new direction of Kotfe and Kotet. I actually really enjoyed the Zakuul lore, even if I absolutely do think that it still makes no sense that Vitiate could be Valkorion.

 

I was even down with being separated from my crews if it lead to an emotionally satisfying reunion later on, but so far, after 2 years, that hasn't happened.

 

The companions stuff does make me sad, though. I can certainly see why the change was made to the omit the monthly chapters. Frankly, I did think they hurt the pacing of the story, and I thought Kotet did feel like it had better overall pacing because of it, until the ending which felt rather abrupt.

 

And yeah, I found most of the episodic chapters to be the weaker parts of the Kotfe, as well.

 

I suppose I can only speak for myself here, but my feeling was that the companion focused chapters were less well received because since they were meant to be episodic, people ended up wanting their companions back to help them with something that felt more important than a side story.

 

Personally, I kept imagining Kira giving my Knight support and insight against Valkorion or Jaesa returning to help my Warrior destroy Vaylin or something.

 

Perhaps that was never feasible for everyone's love interests, but If more companions are returning without feeling like they are really helping with important, I'd say there's going to be a lot of disappointment.

Edited June 24, 2017 by OldVengeance

[ZionHalcyon]

What do I need evidence of exactly? What have I posted that I need to prove? You posted a few examples that in no way goes to prove your ludicrous concept of ...

 

 

 

You have not done this at all, you can't even pretend to have done this. Try again.

 

 

 

 

Strawman attacks? You don't seem to understand the concept - where have I misrepresented your argument as something it's not? I have directly quoted you every time and spoken EXACTLY to what you posted.

However you implying I've not provided evidence for some argument I never made and also stating that I "failing miserably to represent what I say as truth" (whatever the hell that means) without actually demonstrating what it is I apparently "represent as truth" is indeed a strawman argument - you are arguing against a point I never actually made.

 

Stick the the posts I actually make, not the ones you imagine.

 

 

 

 

You have not provided any evidence to support the statement I quoted - you cherryp icked just what you needed to be able to say "some people didn't enjoy everything about the story". Stop pretending I'm making some argument that I'm not.

Feel free to go back on my post history for my true thoughts on the feeling around story.

 

 

 

Which proves most people disliked the story in your world? You stated if someone were to go through all threads they would find more people disliking the story or leaving the game than enjoying it. You implied someone else should do this. I implied how about you do it yourself. You've not done this, anything you say from that point is nonsense until you at least complete the task you set out as a means to prove your case.

 

Stop being lazy and get busy.

 

I posted some links. Which is more than you've done. You've attacked me because you disagree with me. I simply refuted people arguing that more people liked the story than disliked it with KotFE.

 

Frankly, your whole paragraph reads like an ad hominem attack combined with a straw man, both dismissing what I already shown (even though it was more than anyone else thus far has put forth other than "take my word for it") while demanding proof which I already provided.

 

At this point, nothing will be good enough for you - I could go 100 pages deep, and you'd still say "that doesn't count!" like you did here.

 

You don't want to debate this - you want to have a pissing contest for the sake of lording over some sort of misguided moral superiority over a video game. Sorry, not going to partake in a discussion with someone who can't even acknowledge the validity of the other side when given evidence, as that shows you have no intention to really debate at all - your only goal is to drown out differing opinions than yours.

[ZionHalcyon]

-snip-

 

You sort of left out the part where you garned a reptuation through many communication mediums of being one of the most bias, negatively outspoken people this game has seen and thus many ended up just ignoring most of what you had to say outright because it amounted to nonsense posts as you are proving to be true to form again here.

 

That never happened. And with that, you basically exposed that you have a personal vendetta. Seriously, life is too short to hold grudges over a video game, no matter how passionate you are about it. Take a breath and stop taking things personally.