Server Merge Discussion Thread

[TyonYlle]

Yes he did. He said something in the lines he doesn't want to force anyone but maybe find incentives for them to leave but this would only happen if they could transfer guilds intact with all their assets and our personal assets.

 

Seems reasonable to me ¯\_ツ_/¯ this has to, at the least, show Keith is putting in an effort to try for us.

[Ratajack]

Seems reasonable to me ¯\_ツ_/¯ this has to, at the least, show Keith is putting in an effort to try for us.

 

I think the point that poster was trying to make is that even those who oppose server merges have not been against players being able to move to a server with a population more to their liking, whether that be TO a more populated serer, or AWAY from a toxic cesspool server. Most hope that the issues surrounding guilds and guild assets, as well as personal assets, can be resolved, allowing players to transfer without having to worry about losing any of those assets.

 

Many of those in favor of server merges, though, seem to still be insistent that everyone be forcibly moved to a "mega server" (including those who are happy where they are), despite Keith's statement that BW does not want to force anyone to move. Keith's statement would seem to indicate that BW wants to allow players the freedom to remain where they are, if they are happy where they are.

[Icykill_]

But who are claiming they can't get into groups? I don't recall any of the others saying they can't get into groups and have a problem with finding people to group with.

 

I know I don't. So maybe the problem is they are on ignore lists is why they can't get into groups.

 

As far as merging, even Keith stated in the bad feeling podcast he doesn't want to force people to move but yet I still see some of the merger crowd ignoring that and stomping their feet saying no we have to have mergers even after it was stated on the podcast BW doesn't want to force people to move. So again who is pushing for something that even BW isn't pushing for.

http://badfeelingpodcast.com/audio/podcasts/episode_162_final.mp3

 

Taking the role of devils advocate here... but the difference between not wanting to force people and not having a choice is also there. You are reading into what he said as much as people who want mergers. He may not want to merge or force people to move, but it's possible he may not have a choice.

He said they were looking at all options, so nothing is off the table. But he is well aware of both sides of this discussion and I'm sure he is trying to take everything into account because he obviously cares about the issue.

People are still entitled to ask for mergers if they think it's the solution. No where in the podcast did Keith say they wouldn't do mergers.

I don't think Bio are pushing for anything at the moment. I think they are looking at all options and will do what is best for the game. None of us knows what Bio will do at the moment.

There is nothing wrong with asking for mergers or saying you don't want them. Keith is well aware that there are differing views on this idea.

So there is no need to try and interpret what he said and twist it to back your argument. Nothing he said supports anyone's side over the other or what Bio will do. There are lots of factors involved here and Keith cares enough to look at everyone's point of view,

[DarthNillard]

Who needs mergers. Implement these 2 things and you are fine:

 

1) Make server transfer free. People can happily move about and find the home that is right for them. Maybe put a per toon daily or weekly limit to prevent troll spreading, but there's no reason to pay for these. Especially for F2P or preferred people who aren't ready to invest money yet (if ever).

 

2) Find a way to make first time players roll on one of the 3 "active" servers (Harbinger, Shadowlands, TRE). Ask for their preferred location (East Coast US, West Coast US, Europe) so a vast majority of actual "new" players load right into populated servers and get a lively experience. Possible also add an "Other" choice to that list, when if selected, they can then pick any server they want from the list. That way people who are new but coming to play with friends still have a choice.

 

Please tell me where that wouldn't make everyone happy?

[Ratajack]

Who needs mergers. Implement these 2 things and you are fine:

 

1) Make server transfer free. People can happily move about and find the home that is right for them. Maybe put a per toon daily or weekly limit to prevent troll spreading, but there's no reason to pay for these. Especially for F2P or preferred people who aren't ready to invest money yet (if ever).

 

2) Find a way to make first time players roll on one of the 3 "active" servers (Harbinger, Shadowlands, TRE). Ask for their preferred location (East Coast US, West Coast US, Europe) so a vast majority of actual "new" players load right into populated servers and get a lively experience. Possible also add an "Other" choice to that list, when if selected, they can then pick any server they want from the list. That way people who are new but coming to play with friends still have a choice.

 

Please tell me where that wouldn't make everyone happy?

 

I have already indicated my opinion that IF BW were to make any transfers free, they should give each character ONE free transfer (from any server to any server), with some restrictions tied to that free transfer, to help prevent abuse and exploitation.

 

Several of those favoring server merges have already indicated that they do NOT want players to be able to easily move AWAY from those populated servers, though, while at the same time berating BW for "trapping" players on lower populated servers. I think they may be afraid that if players could easily move between servers, at least one of those higher population servers would see a mass exodus as people leave for a more respectful and far less toxic server.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Ratajack

[Icykill_]

Agreed. But I'd call them "selfish"...not toxic. Dead servers harm the game, those advocating that Bioware do nothing are either ignorant or selfish.

 

There is definitely a lot of people who are only worried about their own little part of the game... I agree, those people who aren't willing to accept that all parts of the game are equal in importance are extremely selfish.

 

I've said this a few times and I know you have too, but it needs repeating it seems because people just don't get it.

 

We have a declining population and it's getting worse. This game will only stay online and viable if Bioware are making money. Because of the low population we are now in a situation that we can't afford for any part of the game community to leave or for it to fail.

It doesn't matter if you like story, raids, pvp or RP... it all matters and it's all equally important to this game staying viable. We are now in a symbiosis and that means we have to stop being selfish and start looking at the big picture. If we don't, there will be no game at all and you can argue all you want about your own little part of the game till the cows come home.. but it won't help because you won't be able to play it.

 

There maybe some unpalatable ideas presented in this thread from some people. But they are ideas on how to fix a problem that if it isn't fixed soon, it will be the end of the game for everyone.

Regardless of what the ideas are to fix the issue... there is one underlining factor that people who only play solo story are over looking and that is if the group content people can't play, the game is dead. By constantly attacking people's need to be able to play group content as if it doesn't matter only highlights the selfishness of some people to everyone in the game, even people on their own side.

 

We need to leave this to Keith and Bioware now. They also want to keep the game going and understand that people have different needs. I certainly wouldn't want to be in Keith's shoes because if they don't get it right it pisses people off and if they don't get it right the game fails. I say we have a fair chance of it working in a way that everyone (99%) is happy with the outcome and it actually works.

[Ratajack]

There is definitely a lot of people who are only worried about their own little part of the game... I agree, those people who aren't willing to accept that all parts of the game are equal in importance are extremely selfish.

 

I've said this a few times and I know you have too, but it needs repeating it seems because people just don't get it.

 

We have a declining population and it's getting worse. This game will only stay online and viable if Bioware are making money. Because of the low population we are now in a situation that we can't afford for any part of the game community to leave or for it to fail.

It doesn't matter if you like story, raids, pvp or RP... it all matters and it's all equally important to this game staying viable. We are now in a symbiosis and that means we have to stop being selfish and start looking at the big picture. If we don't, there will be no game at all and you can argue all you want about your own little part of the game till the cows come home.. but it won't help because you won't be able to play it.

 

There maybe some unpalatable ideas presented in this thread from some people. But they are ideas on how to fix a problem that if it isn't fixed soon, it will be the end of the game for everyone.

Regardless of what the ideas are to fix the issue... there is one underlining factor that people who only play solo story are over looking and that is if the group content people can't play, the game is dead. By constantly attacking people's need to be able to play group content as if it doesn't matter only highlights the selfishness of some people to everyone in the game, even people on their own side.

 

We need to leave this to Keith and Bioware now. They also want to keep the game going and understand that people have different needs. I certainly wouldn't want to be in Keith's shoes because if they don't get it right it pisses people off and if they don't get it right the game fails. I say we have a fair chance of it working in a way that everyone (99%) is happy with the outcome and it actually works.

 

I highly doubt there IS way to "solve" this perceived problem that will satisfy everyone. Some faction is going to be "shafted".

 

IMO, the best 'solution" is for BW to resolve all the issues surrounding transfers, then allow players to move to a server that is more to their liking, if they CHOOSE to do so.

 

If BW were to implement a new, higher capacity server, resolve all the issues surrounding transfers, then allow players the freedom to move to whatever server they choose, including that new higher capacity server, then those wishing to have a higher population for LFG fodder can do so, but those that wish to be on a server with a more respectful community can also do so.

[DWho]

I would say that in the short term there are 4 or 5 viable servers (viable meaning that group activity pops are reasonably constant in server location prime time though they may not be as frequent as some would wish) and 3 servers that need serious attention in the US. Effort should be focused on alleviating the issues with those 3 servers first (people who want to get off them, new people creating characters on them, etc). Being small they are much easier to deal with. There is still the issue of communities on those servers (and yes they do have communities) and how to transition them to new servers. Maybe the solution is to merge the 3 PVP servers into one and see how that goes. All of this is predicated on fixing the issues that were brought up by Bioware (guild assets, personal assets, etc.) in the podcast.

[Ratajack]

I would say that in the short term there are 4 or 5 viable servers (viable meaning that group activity pops are reasonably constant in server location prime time though they may not be as frequent as some would wish) and 3 servers that need serious attention in the US. Effort should be focused on alleviating the issues with those 3 servers first (people who want to get off them, new people creating characters on them, etc). Being small they are much easier to deal with. There is still the issue of communities on those servers (and yes they do have communities) and how to transition them to new servers. Maybe the solution is to merge the 3 PVP servers into one and see how that goes. All of this is predicated on fixing the issues that were brought up by Bioware (guild assets, personal assets, etc.) in the podcast.

 

I think most can agree that whatever BW does, it should be contingent upon them resolving all the issues pertaining to guilds and guild assets, as well as all personal assets, including things such as costume designer slots and outfits therein.

[Slowpokeking]

Improve the LFG system and give the option to turn off level sync is more important.

[DWho]

Improve the LFG system and give the option to turn off level sync is more important.

 

How would you improve the LFG system? What would you want to see in it? Those are certainly things worth looking at since they tie in to server mergers. With XP gain as fast as it is now Level Sync has to stay (people will scream bloody murder if you reduce XP gain). Some modifications (such as instancing end story bosses) should be considered, but overall it is beneficial to the game.

[Icykill_]

Improve the LFG system and give the option to turn off level sync is more important.

 

A cross faction option would be good too. One that you can opt for or not in FP/OPs. But I think it should just be a standard feature in pvp and be on all the time.

[DWho]

A cross faction option would be good too. One that you can opt for or not in FP/OPs. But I think it should just be a standard feature in pvp and be on all the time.

 

Perhaps cross faction guilds.

[Icykill_]

Keith,

I'd like to add to this discussion by saying cross faction pvp would help with the pop times. We have it with Odessen and there isn't really a reason anymore not to have it. Especially as it's better to actually get a pop than sit around and not get any, RP is all well and good for pvp, but if you can't get a match then RP doesn't happen anyway.

Just to add to that idea, maybe implement a cross faction pvp channel so people can cross faction talk about pvp outside of the WZ.

[Icykill_]

Perhaps cross faction guilds.

 

Another good idea..

 

Let me build on that by suggesting to have 3 types of guilds,

 

Alliance guilds that are cross faction, obviously

Imperial and Republic guilds as they already are.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Fellow threadarians (posters, lol)... I know we have a suggestion section in the forums, but not many of us read or participate in (let's face it, most of us don't leave the gen section)... but would you guys participate in a positve thread in the gen section of ideas for QOL/improvements we'd like to see/have...

I see so many good ideas in multiple threads that never get suggested or are never heard of again. Wouldn't it be good to have a dedicated thread we could all post them in and we'd see daily. We could even ask Eric to sticky it.

We don't need to argue in it why they can't do it, that's up to them to work it out. We can call it our own "wall of crazy"

So what do you guys think. Do you want to participate?

[DWho]

Fellow threadarians (posters, lol)... I know we have a suggestion section in the forums, but not many of us read or participate in (let's face it, most of us don't leave the gen section)... but would you guys participate in a positve thread in the gen section of ideas for QOL/improvements we'd like to see/have...

I see so many good ideas in multiple threads that never get suggested or are never heard of again. Wouldn't it be good to have a dedicated thread we could all post them in and we'd see daily. We could even ask Eric to sticky it.

We don't need to argue in it why they can't do it, that's up to them to work it out. We can call it our own "wall of crazy"

So what do you guys think. Do you want to participate?

 

Wall of Crazy is good. Somewhere where no idea is a "dumb" idea. There have been a few suggestions in this thread that would make good entries there.

[Ratajack]

Wall of Crazy is good. Somewhere where no idea is a "dumb" idea. There have been a few suggestions in this thread that would make good entries there.

 

I would hope that those who don't blindly with agree with a "suggestion" would be free to voice their opinions, including why they think it might not be a good 'suggestion".

 

I am concerned that some will attack anyone who voices an opinion other than blind support for all "suggestions". It has happened already in this thread.

[Fireswraith]

I agree. It should be infinitely long. It can't even cover one players possible toons on a single server now. It's clearly too limited right now.

 

They could change it so instead of just ignoring the character it ignores the account the character is on and increase the cap a bit, 100 maybe.

[Fireswraith]

Hey all,

 

Someone indicated we haven't posted in this thread since we kicked it off. As we stated in the opening post, we are not ready to discuss anything, yet, The purpose of the thread was to consolidate all the various posts about the topic so it's all contained in one place. All of your comments will absolutely have an impact on how and what we decide with respect to server populations.

 

Keith---

 

Great that you're still reading the thread. But kind of problematic because you guys rarely are ready to "discuss" anything until you've chosen a course of action. Which isn't really a discussion at that point but more telling us what's going to happen.... then the forums explode and then it's re-evaluating that course of action. It would still be nice to hear any sort of internal discussions you're having. NOT if you're leaning towards any side/course of action, but is there like a pro/con list or something, are you looking into guild/personal assets issues?

 

I have been an advocate of server merges for a long time time, or rather mega servers as I kind of distinguish between the two. Mega servers being new servers created rather than simply merging servers 1 and 2 onto server 3. At least that way then if the whole names issue can't be solved at least it will be like it is now, the first person that gets it gets it.

 

But I'm not an advocate because of queue times, as someone that doesn't play much that makes little difference to me. It's mainly practicality for me. If I'm remembering correctly in the beginning there were X amount of servers with a Y population cap per server so everything was always full. Then BW created more servers (~120 US in total) and increased pop cap to something like 2000. Then eventually servers were merged because it was impractical to have that many servers for the amount of people playing. Today I think we face a similar situation. With the amount of people playing it's just not practical to have 8 US servers when 3 would suffice (yes one for the unofficial RP server). I mean what's a servers limit today, at least 2000? Aside from Harbinger how many servers get close to half that on the best of days.

 

On a side note I always wish people would stop using how many people are on Fleet as an indication of how "dead" or not a server is. If you're comparing Fleet population great, go for it. But if you're trying to reference the population of the server (or faction) at least multiply that number by 2-4 to account for every other zone that exists besides just Fleet (and add 1 for that one person doing space missions ), and then double that number because there is another faction.

[Wahala]

Since I do little "GROUP" content and it has taken me about a year to get all 23 of my characters on Shadowlands into the guild I use, I am basically opposed to server merges. Main reason is all the guild glitches and or losing guild membership on all or some characters in my legacy when the "Merge" takes place.

 

I don't want the hassle of server merges, Thank you very much.

[kodrac]

Welcome Back. While you were away we finally got a person in charge who recognizes the benefits of getting more of the active players of the game together. According to Keith they actually now have the hardware that is capable of making SWTOR more like modern MMO's where everyone playing the game is more connected.

 

You may recall the opponents of server merges back then were those people who solo'd heroics for big money, they went away after that was nerfed. Now we have RP'ers who feel they are harassed by non-RP'ers but when I logged onto TEH I found dozens and dozens on a silent fleet perfectly happy sitting around that center bar area being left to their own devices. Were queues popping or were people trying to form groups? No.

 

Getting more bitter over RP by the post...

[TUXs]

They could change it so instead of just ignoring the character it ignores the account the character is on and increase the cap a bit, 100 maybe.

It absolutely should work that way. I'm ignoring a player, not a toon.

[HuaRya]

Since I do little "GROUP" content and it has taken me about a year to get all 23 of my characters on Shadowlands into the guild I use, I am basically opposed to server merges. Main reason is all the guild glitches and or losing guild membership on all or some characters in my legacy when the "Merge" takes place.

 

I don't want the hassle of server merges, Thank you very much.

 

It's a good thing you don't do group activities on that server because it's name is a description of it's former self i.e. 'Shadow'.

[Ratajack]

It's a good thing you don't do group activities on that server because it's name is a description of it's former self i.e. 'Shadow'.

 

There have been quite a few people in this very thread who have stated that they play on Shadowlands and have no problem doing group content.