Server Merge Discussion Thread

[casirabit]

What is the reasoning behind the idea that an RP server must be merged. Why can't it be kept as a separate server? Is it that it bleeds of population from the random grouping mechanism? or is there some other reason the RPers can't have their own server?

 

It is the other posters. There is no reason for Ebon Hawk to be merged anyways. We have a good population. It just other posters have a fit if we suggest leaving Ebon Hawk alone as the RP server.

[Ratajack]

What is the reasoning behind the idea that an RP server must be merged. Why can't it be kept as a separate server? Is it that it bleeds of population from the random grouping mechanism? or is there some other reason the RPers can't have their own server?

 

My best guess is that those in favor of server merges want as much "potential" fodder for LFG as possible (as long as their is no, or minimal, inconvenience to themselves, of course) and an RP server would take away much of the "potential" fodder,

 

I say "potential" LFG fodder because merging servers is NOT likely to be magic panacea for the woes "suffered" by those who, for whatever reason, rely upon the LFG tool for their group content.

 

Those players that choose to do their group activity with friends and guild mates are not going to magically start queuing for LFG 24/7, and those players that do not PVP are not going to magically going start PVP'ing 24/7.

 

In fact, while it may sound incredible, server merges could have the opposite affect--that of actually increasing LFG times. If server merges are not done in a way that ensures that:

 

• 
   
  all guilds, guild assets and personal assets are transferred INTACT
   
  that no one loses anything
   
  that no one is negatively impacted, in any way
  

 

many players who are currently playing mey very well be driven away, including players that now contribute to the LFG pool.

 

Many of those players looking for more LFG fodder also want minimal inconvenience to themselves. Look at the number of posters who want server merges, but want to ensure that the mega server is in their area (or at the least that a server remains in their area) because THEIR latency might go up if the "mega server" was in another area.

 

There are also posters who want to see server x and server Y merged, but only if server Y is the destination server. There couldn't possibly be any self interest in supporting that merge if server Y was the destination server, but not if server X (or even a totally new higher capacity server Z) was the destination server, could there?

[Darkside]

For those that are concerned about guild names in server merging: Why not assign each server a color, then allow guilds with the same name on the mega server, but their guild tag color reflects the server they are from?

 

Example:

 

Harbinger Guild -

Musco's Imperial Army

(Their guild tag would be yellow)

 

 

Shadowlands Guild -

Musco's Imperial Army

(Their tag would be green)

 

 

That way guilds can stay intact, keep their names, recruit new members, and players could learn and easily discern the origin based on the color.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Darkside

[Ratajack]

For those that are concerned about guild names in server merging: Why not assign each server a color, then allow guilds with the same name on the mega server, but their guild tag color reflects the server they are from?

 

Example:

 

Harbinger Guild -

Musco's Imperial Army

(Their guild tag would be yellow)

 

 

Shadowlands Guild -

Musco's Imperial Army

(Their tag would be green)

 

 

That way guilds can stay intact, keep their names, recruit new members, and players could learn and easily discern the origin based on the color.

 

How would a potential recruit know which "Musco's Imperial Army" was attempting to recruit them?

 

If one of those two "Musco's Imperial Army" was mature and respectful, and one was full of D-bags, how would one reading chat know which was which?

 

 

I'm not pointing any fingers, but I think some people are so focused on getting as much "potential" LFG fodder as possible that they are ignoring all the issues surrounding server merges; or at best , grasping at straws in an attempt to make it appear that they are trying to "solve those issues".

Edited June 7, 2017 by Ratajack

[Lunafox]

As far as I can tell, the only advocates of the idea that all servers must be merged into one are Veruca Salt types who want faster queue pops NOW NOW NOW, who don't care whose toons and accounts get royally kriffed up and how many players would lose billions of credits and hundreds of dollars of real money investment in the game as a result. They just want to shave a minute or two off their queue pop time, that's all they care about. All of their arguments come back to that central point.

 

I wonder if they'd be willing to give up all of THEIR stuff to move to another server to get those faster queue pops themselves... or if they're only willing to advocate for other people to make that sacrifice for their benefit?

 

The solution is not server merges. The solution is cross-server queuing. We should all be pushing EAWare towards finding a way to make that work, so no one has to sacrifice anything and we all can stay where we want to play.

 

Well, said. It seems to me that a lot of these people don't even want to sacrifice the 90cc to transfer themselves to fix their own issues--90cc that is essentially freely given because of the monthly allotment of cc. They won't use their own 90cc but expect others to sacrifice BILLIONS in game and hundreds of real life US dollars.

 

The cross server queuing would be ideal, no merges would then be needed and people could be happy. And they could afford to label the low pop servers, so newbies don't go there if they don't want to.

[ivanhedgehog]

No that will not work. Greifers and trolls will still be able to grief rp. There is no way adding a rp instance will help keep griefers off the rp instances. It will not work like a pvp instance because I think if you grief a pvp player he can just kill you on a pvp server, there is nothing stopping a troll/griefer from doing that on a rp instance.

 

The fastest way to kill roleplay is by giving it an instance like this and allowing people to troll or grief them. This happened to me before on SWG and my friends and I got fed up that we just stop playing. We don't want people to stop playing so this is not a way to handle roleplay.

 

I dont necessarily disagree with you, but I am curious what is stopping anyone from rolling a character on a rp server and trolling you there? Griefers tend to not have a life anyway, so that would be right up their alley.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Look at precious Harbinger. It's down more than up.

 

Hyperbole much?

 

And even though I don't RP, I wish people would stop treating them like second class citizens. I've seen first hand what happens when you loose pvpers upon an RP server. It's not pretty and the RP people suffer for it. Their type of game play is every bit as important and vital as pvpers/groupers.

 

PVP players can play on RP servers now though if they so choose?

 

As far as I'm concerned this conversation is pointless until they figure out how to handle things so that NO ONE loses their personal assets and guild assets.

 

Pointless? How so? The fact we are all bringing up the very issue you say that makes it pointless so that BWA are well and truly aware of "don't merge until this is sorted" is one in a variety of reasons that give this thread a "point".

 

Also if it were pointless why are you replying?

[Kernel_Cinders]

Okay, here it goes. I have an idea I'd like to throw out and see if anyone else thinks this would be a good idea or not . . .

 

Would it be possible allow people to transfer their characters to the surviving server they wish to move to for free prior to the "official" merging of the servers?

 

It's a loaded question and I intended it to be, but would it be a good idea or a bad idea? I do not have the answer.

 

As for Legacy, I do not see any serious issues. Individual Legacy Character Unlocks should be unaffected. The Account Legacy Unlocks would combine together.

 

I do agree that the Guild Ships are going to cause a problem, but I am confident that if there is a viable solution for it, then the Dev Team will come up with a plan that will work. However, we should all be prepared to deal with the disappointment if the Guild Ships cannot be saved, and if so, a reasonable explanation will be given as to why it isn't possible to do so.

 

Again, I am simply throwing out ideas. Feel free to comment. I believe that if we all share constructive criticisms and come together to form ideas that the Dev Team can possibly use, then we all win. Merging servers is a serious thing, and I for one am glad that Keith is using this thread to get input from all of us for ideas.

 

The Dev Team may use some of our ideas, and they may use none of our ideas, but at least we can all say we tried our best to give constructive input to make any possible server merger(s) as painless as possible. I will keep posting any ideas I come up with and encourage everyone else to do the same.

 

KC

[ivanhedgehog]

IMO, a better approach would be to label those servers as "very light" or "very low population". That leaves those servers available for those that prefer that lower population while also deterring any new players who prefer a more populated server from choosing those servers.

 

Maybe placing a warning on those servers character select/creation pages warning that they are very lo pop servers and that a new players experience would be better on more populated servers. No excuse for not seeing it that way.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I agree with this and the Pub side isn't much better on Harb. I know there are people out there that think this is a "special snowflake" concern but it is a serious concern for anyone who has their children playing this game. Its all fine a good for the adults but there are a lot of people younger than 18 playing this game

 

I'm curious though how many people go to the actual length of logging a ticket against someone who breaks ToS with their chat activity? I mean I don't agree with the assessment of the chat but I am curious if it's a fact BWA do nothing about this sort of thing or if reported appropriately how do we know nothing is done to the offending account?

 

I would think if indeed nothing is done then this is a hot question for Eirc and Keith to answer on why not? Given the game rating there must be a very thin line around the age of players they allow in and the game doing absolutely nothing to prevent some of the content that goes into chat along with levels of bullying that can at times be noticed.

 

Imo "just use ignore" is not a valid response.

[BradTheImpaler]

I agree it seems to mainly be the pvp crowd that wants server merges. As somebody who plays on JC I see no need for it, it get groups and pops for whatever I want when I want it. I might have to wait a few minutes never more than 5 minutes or so and I am okay with that. The server is far from dead, I am very happy with it the way it is, I have not seen anything during my play time or in this thread that makes me see it differently. In fact if I am forced to switch servers and lose my names and have to redo all of my strongholds I am going to be very very unhappy.

 

I play on Shadowlands and this is 100% right.

Merging servers for no good reason just invites a lot of pointless screw-ups.

The only place I've seen anyone demand this is on the forums.

[Darkside]

How would a potential recruit know which "Musco's Imperial Army" was attempting to recruit them?

 

If one of those two "Musco's Imperial Army" was mature and respectful, and one was full of D-bags, how would one reading chat know which was which?

 

 

I'm not pointing any fingers, but I think some people are so focused on getting as much "potential" LFG fodder as possible that they are ignoring all the issues surrounding server merges; or at best , grasping at straws in an attempt to make it appear that they are trying to "solve those issues".

 

Add the color tag to the /ginviteyellow /ginvitegreen

 

The devs could have list posted on the site if what servers were what color etc

Edited June 7, 2017 by Darkside

[casirabit]

You can't just have ONE server for each coast. It'll be laggy at best and offline at worst. Look at precious Harbinger. It's down more than up. And even though I don't RP, I wish people would stop treating them like second class citizens. I've seen first hand what happens when you loose pvpers upon an RP server. It's not pretty and the RP people suffer for it. Their type of game play is every bit as important and vital as pvpers/groupers.

 

As far as I'm concerned this conversation is pointless until they figure out how to handle things so that NO ONE loses their personal assets and guild assets. When they can guarantee guilds moving intact and keeping all their stuff, then it can be discussed as to how to divide things up. Personally I see no need. Shadowlands is fine and I do feel that the previous designations mean something. I play on Shadowlands because it's a pve server. That's it's focus and the majority of people play there for that focus. Pvp is an afterthought there, not the focus.

 

Thanks Luna.

[DWho]

I'm curious though how many people go to the actual length of logging a ticket against someone who breaks ToS with their chat activity? I mean I don't agree with the assessment of the chat but I am curious if it's a fact BWA do nothing about this sort of thing or if reported appropriately how do we know nothing is done to the offending account?

 

I would think if indeed nothing is done then this is a hot question for Eirc and Keith to answer on why not? Given the game rating there must be a very thin line around the age of players they allow in and the game doing absolutely nothing to prevent some of the content that goes into chat along with levels of bullying that can at times be noticed.

 

Imo "just use ignore" is not a valid response.

 

I think people do report it and something is done at some point. The problem is the chat continues until someone responds to the ticket. That could be a matter of minutes or a matter of hours depending on what server, the time of day it is for the person responsible for responding to these kinds of tickets, and the amount of time it takes to investigate whether it is a spurious complaint (a moderator can make that determination in real time and mete out immediate penalties - which is in my opinion a very effective deterrent). Also since there is no immediate response, there is no deterrent to someone else deciding to do the same thing or continue in the same direction (or even the same person just switching characters). The more immediate and visible the response, the more impact it is going to have on deterring that type of activity.

[omaan]

Just wanna pop in and say, keep the feedback coming! The team has been actively discussing the thread and we appreciate everyone's viewpoints. For the most part the thread has been constructive and devoid of personal attacks, keep that coming!

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

As you may see it's up to:1)server merge for both eu and usa servers into two megaservers or 2) cross-server queues. Anyway, devs should implement at least one of these steps, otherwise most of the players will continue to face faction imbalance,population problems... So pls CHOOSE wisely and FAST.

[casirabit]

As you may see it's up to:1)server merge for both eu and usa servers into two megaservers or 2) cross-server queues. Anyway, devs should implement at least one of these steps, otherwise most of the players will continue to face faction imbalance,population problems... So pls CHOOSE wisely and FAST.

 

Actually not quite true. Someone else posted an idea which a lot of people agree to that was broke down like this:

 

West Coast

The Harbinger

The Bastion

 

NA-RP

The Ebon Hawk

Bergeren Colony

Jung Ma

 

East Coast

The Shadowlands

Jedi Covenant

Prophecy of the Five

[MandFlurry]

Maybe placing a warning on those servers character select/creation pages warning that they are very lo pop servers and that a new players experience would be better on more populated servers. No excuse for not seeing it that way.

 

That would an Awesome idea, and i don't know if anyone else has said the same thing, but you nailed it . If people got a warning for any low populated, and they may not get a good PvE and PvP group experience , as much a chance as higher populated servers.

[DWho]

Another 16 man HM getting organized on JC for those interested.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=923926

[DWho]

As you may see it's up to:1)server merge for both eu and usa servers into two megaservers or 2) cross-server queues. Anyway, devs should implement at least one of these steps, otherwise most of the players will continue to face faction imbalance,population problems... So pls CHOOSE wisely and FAST.

 

Actually, based on the forum posts I'd say its

 

1) fix a number of problems that make server merges bad for a lot of people

2) look at cross server queues or some variant of it again

3) merge some servers if number 1 can be accomplished

 

Pretty much the tone of the thread has been there are issues that must be fixed before a server merge can occur. At that point, the discussion can move on to what that server merge might look like

[Ratajack]

Add the color tag to the /ginviteyellow /ginvitegreen

 

The devs could have list posted on the site if what servers were what color etc

 

Or, they could just not merge servers, and continue to leave the choice of server and server population up to the individual player, as is the case now. Leaving the choice of server and server population up to the individual player ensures that there would be no guild name conflicts, no character name conflicts, guilds get to remain intact, and keep all their assets, no individuals lose any assets, and no one is negatively impacted, unless they CHOOSE to be negatively impacted by remaining on a server which they consider "dead".

[Ratajack]

As you may see it's up to:1)server merge for both eu and usa servers into two megaservers or 2) cross-server queues. Anyway, devs should implement at least one of these steps, otherwise most of the players will continue to face faction imbalance,population problems... So pls CHOOSE wisely and FAST.

 

No, you're ignoring the "most servers do not need to be merged" and the "no server merges are needed" options.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I think people do report it and something is done at some point. The problem is the chat continues until someone responds to the ticket. That could be a matter of minutes or a matter of hours depending on what server, the time of day it is for the person responsible for responding to these kinds of tickets, and the amount of time it takes to investigate whether it is a spurious complaint (a moderator can make that determination in real time and mete out immediate penalties - which is in my opinion a very effective deterrent). Also since there is no immediate response, there is no deterrent to someone else deciding to do the same thing or continue in the same direction (or even the same person just switching characters). The more immediate and visible the response, the more impact it is going to have on deterring that type of activity.

 

Ok yes I see where you are coming from in that regard of something more instant being done.

 

People have often pushed the idea for community sponsored moderators for chat but that can lead to a whole other can of worms as too often such moderators get the ole god complex. Ideally though it should be quite simple since it's only really the worst of the worst that needs such moderation. It's how that gets defined for moderation that can be tricky.

[Darkside]

Or, they could just not merge servers, and continue to leave the choice of server and server population up to the individual player, as is the case now. Leaving the choice of server and server population up to the individual player ensures that there would be no guild name conflicts, no character name conflicts, guilds get to remain intact, and keep all their assets, no individuals lose any assets, and no one is negatively impacted, unless they CHOOSE to be negatively impacted by remaining on a server which they consider "dead".

 

That s not viable for the long term health and success of the game.

[Mdgshorty]

Most of the servers are not as populated as they used to be. I have gone back and forth with this but I do think that there needs to be some sort of merge. Look at both WOW and GW2. They both have separate server names but they share instances with other servers.

 

I know some people here like higher pop instances and some may like lower pop instances. Why not in addition to PVE and PVP instances also be able to choose high or low population instances? GF, PVP and GSF should be cross server though.

[Ratajack]

That s not viable for the long term health and success of the game.

 

And if server merges were not done "properly" and drive many players away, how viable is that for the "long term health and success of the game"?

 

As it stands now, the individual players have control over which server they CHOOSE to call home. Some people only want to maintain that control, and not have that choice taken away from them because Johnny wants more LFG fodder because he has no friends and no guild, but his toxic behavior has landed him on too many ignore lists.