Server Merge Discussion Thread

[HuaRya]

You know there is very little difference between your wanting to be on a more populated server and their desire to be on a less populated one and be left alone. Not everyone wants to live in New York City because of (crime, intolerance, filth, etc). They have just as much right to their playstyle as you have to yours. That has been the problem with this thread, no empathy for the other position.

 

Eh it's more like people who realize what is best for the overall game and the ones who selfishly think for themselves. Other game companies are consolidating their servers like Revelation. Server space can now affordably accommodate populations it could not 5 years ago. It has to be more expensive to maintain 17 or so servers in different locations around the world then it would be to 3-5 servers in two or three locations.

[DWho]

Eh it's more like people who realize what is best for the overall game and the ones who selfishly think for themselves. Other game companies are consolidating their servers like Revelation. Server space can now affordably accommodate populations it could not 5 years ago. It has to be more expensive to maintain 17 or so servers in different locations around the world then it would be to 3-5 servers in two or three locations.

 

This is why this discussion has become pointless. The pro merger side only cares about their group content and cares little for the concerns of other people playing the game. That much is obvious. What other MMOs do is irrelevant to this game. The pro merger side simply needs to wait until the technical hurdles of mergers can be addressed but the are absolutely unwilling to do so. Smashing guilds again will destroy this game. They are by far the largest arena of group play in the game.

[Ratajack]

Eh it's more like people who realize what is best for the overall game and the ones who selfishly think for themselves.

 

It's more like people who want something and have convinced themselves that what they want is "best for everyone", even though they KNOW that not everyone wants what they want, and that what they want would likely cause all sorts of nightmares and headaches for multitudes of players. After all, how could they be guilty of not wanting what is best.

 

 

Other game companies are consolidating their servers like Revelation. Server space can now affordably accommodate populations it could not 5 years ago. It has to be more expensive to maintain 17 or so servers in different locations around the world then it would be to 3-5 servers in two or three locations.

 

Oh, yes, the magical "there is a game over here is merging servers, so SWTOR MUST merge servers." again.

 

Are you forgetting (or ignoring) the fact that they did just consolidate server locations, at least in the US.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Ratajack

[Talon_strikes]

I disagree. It was probably one of the better things they'e done in the last 3 or 4 years. PVP servers were already irrelevant because most of the population had moved to servers where they could get PVP queue pops. Most of them went to Harbinger. Making instances solved the issues of PVP griefers and gave the PVP community the chance to have OW PVP on the servers they moved to. It's not BWs fault no one wants to go to the PVP instances, it's the fault of the PVP community and how they have behaved over time.

PvP servers were never irrelevant. Check The Fatman, the go-to server for dead server refugees after launch. Prophecy of the Five had The Fatman merged into it when many left The Fatman to go to their original characters, and was also quite large.

 

DanNV, I've agreed with you on a lot of things before you unsubbed but I'm afraid I cannot agree with you on this assessment. In fact, I'm pretty sure you've said you're not an avid PvP'er, or that you're just a progression PvE raider. I don't mean to sound snarky, but please don't judge the character of PvP'ers or talk like you know what's happened in our community when you aren't a part of our playerbase.

 

The players on PvP servers moved because of forced PvE/PvP instancing, on top of the DvL event and 90cc discounted transfers (which the discounts were a limited time back then). All of that was around the time the servers that weren't Harbinger, TRE, or Ebon Hawk started dying, so people flocked over to those servers because they were the largest in the game.

 

As an aside, there are no "griefers" on PvP servers. PvE servers are a different matter, but the PvP servers always alerted you what you were getting into--Open World PvP--if you continued to enter the PvP server. Heck, even though server-type instancing is now a thing, the PvP servers still warn you about WPvP even though you can simply avoid it by switching to the PvE instance.

[VirtualAdepts]

Perhaps another solution could be:

Guild Transfers: Including Ships

 

Then make it all free..... let people decide if they wish to stay or not.

[DanNV]

DanNV, I've agreed with you on a lot of things before you unsubbed but I'm afraid I cannot agree with you on this assessment. In fact, I'm pretty sure you've said you're not an avid PvP'er, or that you're just a progression PvE raider. I don't mean to sound snarky, but please don't judge the character of PvP'ers or talk like you know what's happened in our community when you aren't a part of our playerbase.

 

I detest PVP, but I have played it quite a bit over time. I have several characters over valor 70. I have dealt with the PVP community. I'm not speaking from hearsay, but from personal experience as to how toxic the PVP community is and how they've driven everyone else as far as possible from anything to do with PVP.

[Talon_strikes]

I detest PVP, but I have played it quite a bit over time. I have several characters over valor 70. I have dealt with the PVP community. I'm not speaking from hearsay, but from personal experience as to how toxic the PVP community is and how they've driven everyone else as far as possible from anything to do with PVP.

I don't disagree with that at all. There's a lot of us who are ***holes. We all deal with it in different ways. I simply talk back. Though I don't agree with your assessment, I get what you're saying.

 

Again, my intentions weren't to sound snarky! Apologies in advance. ><

Edited June 14, 2017 by Talon_strikes

[fushnchips]

It may not be an issue for you, but for some a jump of 40-70 MS ping could be a huge impact on the game.

 

get over it Rata this game can be played without issues even at 300ms

[HuaRya]

This is why this discussion has become pointless. The pro merger side only cares about their group content and cares little for the concerns of other people playing the game. That much is obvious. What other MMOs do is irrelevant to this game. The pro merger side simply needs to wait until the technical hurdles of mergers can be addressed but the are absolutely unwilling to do so. Smashing guilds again will destroy this game. They are by far the largest arena of group play in the game.

 

Pro merger? More like pro common sense. They build a new mall that is bigger with more stores a little further down the road. The old mall nearby with half it's stores closed doesn't make any sense. RP could easily be an instance just like PVP is.

 

The cost of keeping 17 servers up could better be spent putting more resources towards the game itself if it were reduced to 3-5. Other games are being mentioned because it is a technology trend.

 

Now go do some laps around the old mall in your pj's grandpa before it closes down! Just kidding of course.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Eh it's more like people who realize what is best for the overall game and the ones who selfishly think for themselves. Other game companies are consolidating their servers like Revelation. Server space can now affordably accommodate populations it could not 5 years ago. It has to be more expensive to maintain 17 or so servers in different locations around the world then it would be to 3-5 servers in two or three locations.

 

Who the hell wouldn't want to live in NYC?!?!? It's awesome here =]

 

Chinese take out [or eat in] 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year!! Wo Hops!!!!

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I detest PVP, but I have played it quite a bit over time. I have several characters over valor 70. I have dealt with the PVP community. I'm not speaking from hearsay, but from personal experience as to how toxic the PVP community is and how they've driven everyone else as far as possible from anything to do with PVP.

 

You're not wrong, there is a ton of toxicity in PVP. It's rampant. It's worse in Ranked, but it's plenty virial in regs too. It does drive a lot of people who would otherwise partake in PVP away, which is a real shame, because all the people complaining about pops, would have a lot less to complain about if there wasn't so many A-holes running around WZs and on fleet. You need a thick skin for PVP and mostly that just comes by giving as good as you get and standing up to any one who messes with you. Classic bully syndrome. Bullies don't like to pick on people who smash their faces in.

[kvandertulip]

This is coming from a place of ignorance, as I have never tried RP, never been around it, nor do I have any interest to, but isn't it proper etiquette that RP is done in private chat, not general chat or instance chat? Is the griefing even that bad for people who keep to themselves? Edited June 14, 2017 by kvandertulip

[Tisaren]

In the same vein as a lot of suggestions for the RP 'problems' by the server merge crowd, it should be no problem to post 'ideas' and 'suggestions' to address the PvP issue.

 

Remove PvP from the game. Entirely.

 

Imagine how 'wonderful' this would be and how it would 'improve' the game for 'everyone'. Sure, some PvP'ers may leave the game (like everyone here I can say this without having any access to relevant metrics/data, fact-free ftw), but that should pose no problem for BW at all. On the contrary, it would get rid of a toxic cesspool in the game (and the forums).

 

There are so few PvP'ers that they can't even keep dedicated PvP servers alive and the PvP instances are total ghost towns too. What more 'evidence' does one need? Sure, BW would lose some (not many) subscribers, but on the other hand they wouldn't have to invest in costly development to keep PvP'ers happy.

 

RP'ers, for example, are way cheaper, because they create their own stories and keep themselves busy.

 

These ideas are to make the game better for 'everybody', of course.

 

And btw, I obviously do not have an agenda. Really. Sincerely.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Tisaren

[flavmad]

For what I can see, even in game, only a very small minority want server merges. A very loud one, but a minority nontheless.

 

I'll say again, if you're not happy with the population in your server, transfer your character, or create a new one in a server you like. Don't impose your choices on others, who are perfectly happy with their servers.

[casirabit]

This is coming from a place of ignorance, as I have never tried RP, never been around it, nor do I have any interest to, but isn't it proper etiquette that RP is done in private chat, not general chat or instance chat? Is the griefing even that bad for people who keep to themselves?

 

No, RP does not have to be kept in private channels. They can go to cantinas, fleet and rp around the area. Those are using done in chat but those you would not see in general. But the griefers are the normally the ones around the area that start emoting things, jumping in front of them, etc. The ones that use chat can be ignored. RP do not have to keep it to themselves but most rp do not do it general chat but you can still see it if you are around the area. They do not send tells or group up. They can't group up if they are on a planet like Voss and rp with the opposite faction which some do as we can't group up or use private chat for the opposite fact.

[TUXs]

But making PvP/PvE instances was NOT. Doing so made PvP servers irrelevant

Talon...I love ya, but...PvP servers were irrelevant long before the instance thing came about. PvP servers all died, for numerous reasons...toxicity is certainly a part of it, but lack of balance, lack of attention, a terrible engine and lack of development were far greater reasons.

 

Honestly, servers do NOT need to be separated. PvE, PvP or RP...they should all be able to coexist without any issue. Pretending they're separate is one of the greatest mistakes MMO designers make imo. Policing the community is how you ensure nobody is griefed, no matter what they do...that's an issue Bioware has failed to do since launch.

[BlackSilverRoar]

Eh it's more like people who realize what is best for the overall game and the ones who selfishly think for themselves. Other game companies are consolidating their servers like Revelation. Server space can now affordably accommodate populations it could not 5 years ago. It has to be more expensive to maintain 17 or so servers in different locations around the world then it would be to 3-5 servers in two or three locations.

 

^What kind of mental gymnastics are you doing to put out this pro-merger reasoning(<using that word very~ loosely here); Another intolerant Merge servers Now WAHer under the guise of a prophetic Dr Phil. Time for you to slay a dragon too, huh

 

http://s3cf.recapguide.com/img/tv/119/13x5/South-Park-Season-13-Episode-5-31-7b22.jpg

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwFv8bOCYAAfC6d.jpg:large

Edited June 14, 2017 by Willjb

[Andryah]

This is coming from a place of ignorance, as I have never tried RP, never been around it, nor do I have any interest to, but isn't it proper etiquette that RP is done in private chat, not general chat or instance chat? Is the griefing even that bad for people who keep to themselves?

 

 

NOT on an RP server.

 

On a non-RP server.. you would be correct, but most players will disregard and RP wherever.

 

Note: I rarely ever RP.. but I do tend to settle in on RP servers, and I respect the fact that on an RP server I am the minority and I respect other players RPing.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Andryah

[AscendingSky]

In the same vein as a lot of suggestions for the RP 'problems' by the server merge crowd, it should be no problem to post 'ideas' and 'suggestions' to address the PvP issue.

 

Remove PvP from the game. Entirely.

 

Imagine how 'wonderful' this would be and how it would 'improve' the game for 'everyone'. Sure, some PvP'ers may leave the game (like everyone here I can say this without having any access to relevant metrics/data, fact-free ftw), but that should pose no problem for BW at all. On the contrary, it would get rid of a toxic cesspool in the game (and the forums).

 

There are so few PvP'ers that they can't even keep dedicated PvP servers alive and the PvP instances are total ghost towns too. What more 'evidence' does one need? Sure, BW would lose some (not many) subscribers, but on the other hand they wouldn't have to invest in costly development to keep PvP'ers happy.

 

RP'ers, for example, are way cheaper, because they create their own stories and keep themselves busy.

 

These ideas are to make the game better for 'everybody', of course.

 

And btw, I obviously do not have an agenda. Really. Sincerely.

 

 

It's always interesting when you turn a zealot's arguments and 'logic' back on them. I'm sure the PvP-centric MERGE SERVERS NOW crowd will sputter and say "PVP IS DIFFERENT!" now... but it isn't. If they want their play style to be respected, they'd damned well better respect the play style of the roleplayers in this game to an equal degree and stop trying to pretend we don't exist and our concerns aren't valid.

 

Besides, as you pointed out, the death of the PvP servers even before they introduced separate PvE and PvP instances--while Ebon Hawk continues to maintain a healthy population--shows just how many dedicated hardcore OWPvP players this game actually has compared to RPers, I think... and roleplayers aren't nearly as toxic to the community!

Edited June 14, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Ratajack]

get over it Rata this game can be played without issues even at 300ms

 

Most of the game can be played with a ping that high, although to say "without any issues" may be stretching it.

 

Some parts of the game are very ping sensitive, though.

 

I do not PVP, so I can only imagine the disadvantage a player with a 300 ms ping would have when facing a player with a 50 ms ping, especially in ranked.

 

I would imagine that a 300 ms ping might make NiM OP's very challenging, if not nigh onto impossible, as well.

[fushnchips]

Most of the game can be played with a ping that high, although to say "without any issues" may be stretching it.

 

Some parts of the game are very ping sensitive, though.

 

I do not PVP, so I can only imagine the disadvantage a player with a 300 ms ping would have when facing a player with a 50 ms ping, especially in ranked.

 

I would imagine that a 300 ms ping might make NiM OP's very challenging, if not nigh onto impossible, as well.

 

I cleared all Nightmare ops on 300ms so it's not a problem I know people that compete in ranked pvp on that rate to 300ms is nothing to worry about only when you are over 500+ that's when things start to get worrying.

[DWho]

you seem to be one of those strange ones I'm speaking from personal experience about the ping something you have no clue about Rata but you love to get that word in that has no input in the matter just because I proved you wrong about ping issues you have to attack me and wasn't the previous thread purged due to attacks and so on wonder if it was you attacking people.

 

It was deleted because one person kept calling everyone who disagreed with him or had a different experience a liar. So to repeat what has been discussed and encourage discussion of additional topics, here is the list I have posted previously. The point of this is not to argue back and forth over which are important and which are not but to come up with a list of concerns the community has (no matter how small a population they represent) regarding server merges. It is then up to Bioware to decide which topics to put resources to, not us. I think we all agree that at some point there is going to be a merger (whether that be a limited one or a larger one) and there is no reason not to prepare for it. The order of presentation does not represent order of importance since everyone will value these differently.

 

1) Assuring guilds/guild assets can transfer intact

2) Assuring personal assets can transfer intact

3) Dealing with chat on large servers

4) Dealing with overlapping legacies

5) Other ways to deal with population concerns (Cross-server, designated servers, Free legacy transfers)

6) How to start the process when it becomes necessary

7) How to distribute servers/communities (keeping RP servers separate)

 

What 1) and 2) mean is that the player or guild doesn't have to do anything extraordinary (like emptying out guild banks or legacy banks or disbanding and reforming guilds)

Number 3) pretty much speaks for itself, the chat toxicity has to be reigned in whether there is a server merge or not.

Number 4) is a lesser concern but people who have extensive legacies on multiple servers will have a portion of their investment wiped away in a merger

Number 5) Are there ways other than mergers to correct the population imbalance in a way that both sides of the server merge debate can get some of what they want.

Numbers 6) and 7) are merger process related

 

Please comment on additional concerns that would arise from a merger that you have.

[Adric_the_Red]

The primary concern I have is how many and which of my characters will be forced to change their names. This only happened to a couple of my characters in the first round of mergers way back when, but unfortunately, one of the ones that had a forced name change was my then - and still now - main. I'm still waiting to get "my" name back...

 

I have characters on multiple servers, several of which have "duplicate" names. If we have mergers, I'd need to go through and decide which "Joe" I'd want to keep that name, and whether I want to keep or delete the other "Joe" characters.

 

If I want to keep any of those other "Joe" characters, I'd have to rename them, and hope I don't have to rename them again after the mergers. And I'd still have to hope that there isn't some other "Joe" on another server where I don't have a "Joe", that will end up with "my" name after the mergers, and me being forced to rename him anyway.

 

 

Oh, and then there's the problem of character limits on the servers after the merger. (I'm sure I'm not the only person who has more than 50 characters across all servers). Would the per-server character limit go up? If not, what happens to the "extra" characters? Do they get left behind? Who decides which ones get "marooned"?

Edited June 14, 2017 by Adric_the_Red

[TyonYlle]

OKAY, I was postitive that I clicked "edit post" I am far too tired to function! But annnyway deleted because I done gone effed up editing my post, and made a new one by accident, my bad! ^‿^ Edited June 14, 2017 by TyonYlle

[TyonYlle]

There's the problem of character limits on the servers after the merger. (I'm sure I'm not the only person who has more than 50 characters across all servers). Would the per-server character limit go up? If not, what happens to the "extra" characters? Do they get left behind? Who decides which ones get "marooned"?

 

I'm going to play the other side, for the minute. See guys, it's not that hard! If there was a merger, then BW will probably increase the character limit, at least, I think that's what happened last time?

 

HOWEVER, we're getting ahead of ourselves, and contrary to popular belief mergers aren't simple, no matter how much one wills for them to be.

 

Honestly, servers do NOT need to be separated. PvE, PvP or RP...they should all be able to coexist without any issue. Pretending they're separate is one of the greatest mistakes MMO designers make imo. Policing the community is how you ensure nobody is griefed, no matter what they do...that's an issue Bioware has failed to do since launch.

 

This is why we can't have nice things. ¯\_ツ_/¯ All play styles should be able to coexist together, but they don't. And while some of that is on Bioware, at least half is on us, the players, and our maturity.