Command Rank 5 happening, not just a bad, sick tisted joke from Bioware

[stoopicus]

Did anyone think they were just going to stop adding higher tiers of gear to the game altogether?

 

Haven't they added back in guaranteed drops for Ops?

Haven't they added back in gear currency (Unassembled Components) to PVP?

 

If so, then what's the big deal about adding Command Ranks? If you want to get your gear the "old" way, you can - just run Ops and get the drops or earn currencies from PVP to buy what you want; if you want to get your gear through the GC system, you can do that instead.

 

The problem is UC are glacially slow to accumulate and you can only bank about a third of a full set upgrade at a time. Upgrading from 242 to 248, just the right hand side + main/offhand, is about 300 warzone wins or 800 losses. Throw in the relics, implants and ear and it's more. Warzones take 10+ minutes each with time between pops.

 

And that's assuming you have the 242 to begin with.

 

It's better for ops, assuming you are in a NiM capable guild. But if you don't want to do ops, or are an op player missing a couple pieces but don't want to PvP and/or cannot do NiM, it is a long grind.

Edited May 21, 2017 by stoopicus

[Eli_Porter]

 

 

The problem is UC are glacially slow to accumulate and you can only bank about a third of a full set upgrade at a time. Upgrading from 242 to 248, just the right hand side + main/offhand, is about 300 warzone wins or 800 losses. Throw in the relics, implants and ear and it's more. Warzones take 10+ minutes each with time between pops.

 

And that's assuming you have the 242 to begin with.

 

It's better for ops, assuming you are in a NiM capable guild. But if you don't want to do ops, or are an op player missing a couple pieces but don't want to PvP and/or cannot do NiM, it is a long grind.

 

And it takes 27 losses or 12 wins to upgrade a bracer to 248 if you pvp with a daily and weekly active. Exaggerating won't help get your (valid) point across

[stoopicus]

 

 

 

And it takes 27 losses or 12 wins to upgrade a bracer to 248 if you pvp with a daily and weekly active. Exaggerating won't help get your (valid) point across

 

124 per week, Eli. You get 124 UC per week from the regs daily and weekly. Out of 2400 needed to upgrade your set.

 

You can add solo ranked dailies/weekly if you do ranked and can get it to pop enough. So that would be another 142. Per week. But it is probably not time efficient since time spent waiting for (much more rare) ranked queue pops detracts from the grind time in regs WZs. So probably a bad plan.

 

(Eli knows this, I'm just rhetorically stating the obvious here.)

Edited May 21, 2017 by stoopicus

[DarkSaberMaster]

I think it's great. Gives us more things to strive for. Y'all should be happy that Bioware would give us this opportunity to have new, fresh things to strive for. Great job BW. Keep up the good work.

[stoopicus]

I think it's great. Gives us more things to strive for. Y'all should be happy that Bioware would give us this opportunity to have new, fresh things to strive for. Great job BW. Keep up the good work.

 

The thing is, there's been a lot of constructive ideas on how to fix PvP gearing much like Ops were fixed in 5.2. It's not all complaining in the PvP forum, far from it. It's just that no one seems to be listening - the devs don't seem to read the PvP forums, so there's a lot of frustration there.

 

I took a stab at summarizing the main constructive suggestions that people seemed to gravitate towards a few weeks ago:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=919853

 

but no dev response, which I probably shouldn't have expected anyway.

[Eli_Porter]

124 per week, Eli. You get 124 UC per week from the regs daily and weekly. Out of 2400 needed to upgrade your set.

 

You can add solo ranked dailies/weekly if you do ranked and can get it to pop enough. So that would be another 142. Per week. But it is probably not time efficient since time spent waiting for (much more rare) ranked queue pops detracts from the grind time in regs WZs. So probably a bad plan.

 

(Eli knows this, I'm just rhetorically stating the obvious here.)

 

If you get into a PvP guild you could do group ranked and solo ranked dailies as well as regs. So that's 3 different dailies a day for one char. Of course there's doing it on alts as well, but that requires getting 242's on alts which isn't fast enough for some.

 

Anyway my point was that if you want to further your point, using big scary numbers isn't the right way to do it. Gearing out PvP chars is too slow as evident by the number of complaints, no need to add misleading facts into the mix.

[DarkSaberMaster]

The thing is, there's been a lot of constructive ideas on how to fix PvP gearing much like Ops were fixed in 5.2. It's not all complaining in the PvP forum, far from it. It's just that no one seems to be listening - the devs don't seem to read the PvP forums, so there's a lot of frustration there.

 

I took a stab at summarizing the main constructive suggestions that people seemed to gravitate towards a few weeks ago:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=919853

 

but no dev response, which I probably shouldn't have expected anyway.

 

Ummmm..... Check my post history lol.

[FerkWork]

The problem is UC are glacially slow to accumulate and you can only bank about a third of a full set upgrade at a time. Upgrading from 242 to 248, just the right hand side + main/offhand, is about 300 warzone wins or 800 losses. Throw in the relics, implants and ear and it's more. Warzones take 10+ minutes each with time between pops.

 

And that's assuming you have the 242 to begin with.

 

It's better for ops, assuming you are in a NiM capable guild. But if you don't want to do ops, or are an op player missing a couple pieces but don't want to PvP and/or cannot do NiM, it is a long grind.

 

NiM doesn't drop all the pieces though for final bosses. Half is missing. And the rest of the loot is random blues or purples. It's nowhere fix for NiM. Still have to PvP or gamble for Bracers, Belt, Chest, Head, Offhand, and Mainhand.

[Kurj]

Of course there will be a Tier 5. We all know that. The question is when. If it's at the end of the year when another expac drops - fine, I would expect that. If it's in the next month or two? Give me a break. I don't want to grind another tier simply to grind another tier. It needs to be connected to something new.

[ThrakhathSpawn]

Agreed 100%.

 

 

 

Well... discussing it when it appears likely is appropriate. OP claims he found a T5 crate drop listed now. If true, discussion seems relevant. If BS, well, the reactions in this thread are interesting in themselves.

 

You should consider that when launched, T4 gear could be RE-ed, and the resulting schem required a crafting material not in the game.

 

This means that they already had the next set of geared planned, they just aren't telling us.

[stoopicus]

You should consider that when launched, T4 gear could be RE-ed, and the resulting schem required a crafting material not in the game.

 

This means that they already had the next set of geared planned, they just aren't telling us.

 

You can still RE it, actually. And yeah, not just a new mat, but it sounds like a new crafting mechanic too.

[stoopicus]

Ummmm..... Check my post history lol.

 

Ahh yeah, sorry man

[Eli_Porter]

You should consider that when launched, T4 gear could be RE-ed, and the resulting schem required a crafting material not in the game.

 

This means that they already had the next set of geared planned, they just aren't telling us.

Existence of T4 crafting recipes doesn't imply T5.

 

Anyway, T5 command crates were datamined three months ago when the 5.2 patch hit PTS. And just because something's in the game files doesn't mean it's coming in the future.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Alssaran]

Rewards yes, but not necessarily gear, as in better numbers for your character.

 

I agree with this sentiment. The last thing this game needs right now is a new tier of gear in an already unfavourable system.

 

The crux of the matter is that every new tier of gear without a catch-up mechanic in place to dampen the blow will only kill the serious raiding and PvP scenes further. These scenes have already been bleeding players ever since 4.0 and 5.0 dropped, but at least the PvP gearing in 4.0 was sustainable and alt friendly. If there is a new, fifth tier of gear, it will only kick the PvP community further.

 

It's already tremendously difficult to obtain a full set of 248 gear for your main character. I keep reading that it's "2400" tokens for an upgraded set, but that's not the entire truth. You need the previous rating's gear shells and the UC to turn them in for a new set. Which means the total cost for a 248 gear set (if you farm from scratch) is much further into the UPPER thousands than anything else.

 

Also, I keep reading that it's "only" 15 wins to upgrade a single piece of gear. You'll hardly win every round you play, so let's average around 20. It'll take you 20 matches for a single upgrade. That's 20 times ~11 minutes of PvP. 220 minutes. That's four hours of PvP in total. But you also have to add queue times to that, which means you can add 7-10 minutes of queue time for every match, which adds another ~3 hours to the total. We're now looking at 7-8 hours of pure PvP for a single upgrade on the highest level. For people who play ~2 hours a day, this is unsustainable. It can take you four to five days to updrage a single piece of gear. And this doesn't even factor in any other pieces of gear you might need to actually make it to tier 4.

 

A few people who play this game religiously might cherrish the idea that they can now hunt for fourteen new pieces of gear that do nothing except add +20 stat to every slot, but it's not going to help the multitude of players that play alts and on a tight schedule.

 

The most insulting part about this is that the GC system isn't legacy bound. This game has always supported alts. Whether it was the introduction of legacy gear, legacy tokens, warzone commendation tokens, legacy wide unlocks and achievements: This game was always alt friendly. The espescially stingy part is that the last event prior to 5.0 was an event that encouraged people to make alts and pay for character slot unlocks, but then did a 180° turn and introduced a system that is incredibly alt unfriendly. I've been mostly sticking to my Sage and my Guardian (and my Juggernaut and Sorcerer in extension), and even those two are ~150 levels into GC. I can't even play my smuggler or my mercenary in any serious capacity because I'd never be able to finish the GC grind on any character if I did. Not to mention the Chiss Sage and Cathar Juggernaut I made for DvL. These two women are now on the backburner too, simply because my Guardian, who was my first ever SWTOR character back in early access, takes most of my "Guardian GC progression."

 

I respect the fact that people can have their own opinion about what this game needs, and that some people feel the need to constantly grind for gear, which means they cherrish the idea that they'll get a new, fifth tier of golden items to RNG grind. But with the same due respect I'll write something in a manner that I have never written on this forum before: Take that idea and shove it somewhere.

 

It takes hundreds of hours to farm the gear you need to be entirely competitive in ranked without being stomped by that no-lifer in the queue, NiM operations still drop junk, which was actually a planned idea by the design team (doh!), GC levels are still not even remotely legacy bound or alt friendly, and the incredibly high UC prices won't be fixed just by making them legacy bound. Do you think the fact that I can now grind 250+ hours for a full tier 4 set on my Guardian in order to supply my Sorcerer will make it any better? And not to mention that GSF is (as it has always been, granted) an utter mess.

 

The last thing this game needs, in my opinion, is another 100 hours/50 levels of pointless gear grinding with the requirement to own previous tiers in PvP. PvP gearing needs some serious overhauls, as well as a legacy feature for GC. I really don't mind if the average needed experience per level goes up a bit in order to cope with legacy progression, but something needs to happen in that regard.

 

Rant over.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Alssaran

[DarthSpuds]

Also, I keep reading that it's "only" 15 wins to upgrade a single piece of gear. You'll hardly win every round you play, so let's average around 20. It'll take you 20 matches for a single upgrade. That's 20 times ~11 minutes of PvP. 220 minutes. That's four hours of PvP in total. But you also have to add queue times to that, which means you can add 7-10 minutes of queue time for every match, which adds another ~3 hours to the total. We're now looking at 7-8 hours of pure PvP for a single upgrade on the highest level. For people who play ~2 hours a day, this is unsustainable. It can take you four to five days to updrage a single piece of gear. And this doesn't even factor in any other pieces of gear you might need to actually make it to tier 4.

 

PvP isn't my thing.

 

I haven't even done 7-8 hours of PvP since I started playing the day the game launched, and I have no intention of doing 7-8 hours of PvP just for one bit of gear.

 

The whole Command Level / Crate thing is an unmitigated fiasco in how it has been implemented.

 

Adding another 100 levels to it is the very last thing the game needs - taking 100 levels away would be one small step in the right direction.

 

All The Best

[SentinelThain]

The simple fact is that tier 4 rng is *********** terrible.

Another 100 levels of CXP for the same rng sh itfest.No thanks.

Just remember how many blue relics/implants you get at t4,I took a note of it and it was something like 80% of stuff was this crap.I even sent in a ticket about it and got a reply.

It would probably be ever worse with t5.

[RobertFKennedyUS]

Devs should just make a line graph:

 

Days since the release of Galactic Command on the X-axis

# of subscriptions on the Y-axis

 

 

Then think.

 

Then merge JC and SL.

 

Then plan for a new ops, pvp and gsf maps and new daily area after the current new ops is finished.

Edited May 21, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[Fleurdelis]

Ill preface by saying I've loved this game since launch.

 

Galactic command has killed it for me and my guild however. After the D vs L event to see how many new characters we could make and then turn around and hamper those characters by bringing on the Galactic Command Tiers was stupid. If the tiers were legacy bound and all your characters contributed to it would be ok but each character grinding on their own is ridiculous.

 

We haven't given up hope. Still have subs but not playing. Been goofing around in ESO. Its ok but not Star Wars. I hope they get this game fixed fast before we lose interest totally and watch everything we built and strived for since launch, guild, ship, achievements etc go bye bye.

[Soljin]

I'm just waiting for them to come clean and say they will be dropping a new tier of gear with each boss in the "New Raid".

 

In most games a tier of gear is released within a full expansion...SWToR has released how many since 5.0? It's pretty ridiculous unless you are playing the game like a full time job.

[MandFlurry]

This.

 

As for the new tier in general. Upgrading to the new tiers is easy and is hardly a grind at all anymore. I'm looking forward to it.

 

Speak, only for yourself, most of us can't do all the Ops and FP's, most people these days solo. All of my 70 Alts after a couple weeks of grinding are still Tier 1.

 

Most people most l don't play this game like someone on that have to have this meth, drugs that have to play this game like this game is a Religion and must adhere to Holy decree to do things like Ops and other things that most people cant get to.

 

A Tier 5 is Suicide for the devs and Subs here be cause all it does it make people want to Un-subscribe or make more people Po'd that they will never get to that level in reality.

Edited May 22, 2017 by MandFlurry

[leehambly]

So, don't get me wrong, cos I haven't read the whole thread here... but were you guys basically expecting no more gear upgrades? ever? Gear upgrades as a concept has been in the game since launch and every major (and some minor, such as 5.2) update has included a gear upgrade... why would it suddenly stop, forever? Have I missed an announcement about the end of the game or something?

 

Why do we have to keep going over the same ground with every gear upgrade? It is going to happen... GOOD, it is what we want! Is there anyone here that doesn't want any more updates?? Those updates will need to reward the players of it with stuff! It is how these games work.

 

Delivery method of those rewards - now that is a different matter... and totally unrelated to this mount. No one knows the method that tier 5 crates will be delivered via... it is great to know that they are working on it though.

Edited May 22, 2017 by leehambly

[SilverStarSeaker]

Speak, only for yourself, most of us can't do all the Ops and FP's, most people these days solo. All of my 70 Alts after a couple weeks of grinding are still Tier 1.

 

Most people most l don't play this game like someone on that have to have this meth, drugs that have to play this game like this game is a Religion and must adhere to Holy decree to do things like Ops and other things that most people cant get to.

 

A Tier 5 is Suicide for the devs and Subs here be cause all it does it make people want to Un-subscribe or make more people Po'd that they will never get to that level in reality.

 

If someone only does solo content then they wouldn't have gotten end game gear in 4.0 either. In addition why would they even need gear? Unless you're running ranked or HM+ raids you really don't need to stress about getting the best of the best gear.

 

It is true that not everyone can invest the same amount of time into the game but do you think that those who invest 2 hours a week should be able to compete on the same level as someone who invests 25-30? If you were to suggest so then it would just be classic self entitlement.

[quantez]

New gear tiers is only warranted when an new xpansion/update or maybe new content in general is coming out.

1 ops broken down in several pieces is not new content that qualifies for that.

And then there is pvp, new gear tier (more so mid season in ranked) creates a larger gap.

 

IF there is a new tier coming out, it will only be to keep us busy and drive our focus away from the lack of new content.

[Celise]

whats the point in all these levels? GC has been a disaster since launch, it's a disaster after launch, and it's still a disaster even after the contradictory changes to the system and the various cxp bonus weeks over the past number of months. it's been devisive and destructive. now you got people who either love it, or hate it and all the while people have left over the game, even the guild i ran with up to the end of last year has become ghost town and most of the original members have left the game. Another 100 levels makes the GC system ironically worthless and just cheapens the game value wise overall.

 

Keith if there is ever a change to be made to the game, the removal of GC is a significant priority, get rid of the one thing that has destroyed this game and community the last half a year, don't let Ben Irving be the one that destroyed SWTOR and made it impossible for you to even try to fix it. that would be tragic.

 

RemoveRNG.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Celise

[AscendingSky]

I'm just waiting for them to come clean and say they will be dropping a new tier of gear with each boss in the "New Raid".

 

In most games a tier of gear is released within a full expansion...SWToR has released how many since 5.0? It's pretty ridiculous unless you are playing the game like a full time job.

 

I was worried they were going to do something like that--put out a new gear tier with every ops boss--when they announced they were putting the ops out one boss at a time 'to get it out faster' or something like that. I was hoping I was wrong... I guess we'll see when the next boss comes out, which won't be at least until June at this point. So much for their word that the ops would be finished by the end of the year too... :/