Defense raiting VS Endurance

[christian_bmx]

I have a Jugg tank with more than 3200 of defense, more than 1700 of absorb and shield. But the yesterday i was kicked from an operation (kp Hm) because the healers said that i have low HP (endurance).

 

My question is, why there are tanks with more endurance and less defense rating? Wich are the benefits using more endurance?

 

As healer i prefer a tank with less endurance but more defense.

what do you think?

 

( I solo tank KP in HM )

[psandak]

I have a Jugg tank with more than 3200 of defense, more than 1700 of absorb and shield. But the yesterday i was kicked from an operation (kp Hm) because the healers said that i have low HP (endurance).

 

My question is, why there are tanks with more endurance and less defense rating? Wich are the benefits using more endurance?

 

As healer i prefer a tank with less endurance but more defense.

what do you think?

 

( I solo tank KP in HM )

 

The issue is that because of the stat changes a while back, defense rating for tanks has shot through the roof; without even really trying one can get to diminishing returns on defense rating. So what a lot of tanks do is instead of unlettered mods they go for B mods...higher endurance less defense. Now with the current system this does mean using purple (230,234,240,246) instead of legendary/golden mods (236,242,248), so one loses a little overall stat allocation.

 

In addition, there is a small but growing group of tanks who have started using Lethal B mods instead of Warding Mods. The reason is two fold: defense rating is so far into diminishing returns that the loss of defense rating is insignificant and an attempt to increase threat generation. With 5.0 damage dealing classes got a huge bump in DPS, OTOH Tanks did not get get as much of a boost and so there are tanks that are struggling to hold agro when they shouldn't. To mitigate this they are upping their own DPS to increase their T(hreat)PS

 

That said, what is your current health total? Are you using ANY redoubt (defense rating) augments? If your health total is below 100k in current rating equipment then yes your health is too low. If you are using defense rating augments...DON'T; replace them with either shield, absorb, or fortitude augments.

[Eli_Porter]

Shouldn't be an issue, i solo tanked KP HM with my 230/236 geared assassin without any b-mods.

 

Make sure you have a stim/medpack/shield adrenal and use your cooldowns wisely. Worst case scenario, a decent off-tank should be able to take aggro to clear 10 stacks once or twice.

[forestguard]

I believe part of the reasoning was for the defensive gear checks. Certain bosses cause spike damage, which can potentially one-shot a tank if he doesn't have enough health, or at least take him very low. Defense rating helps some, but not enough. Higher endurance also gives the healers a slight buffer in those moments, rather than watching the tank go splat. If I remember correctly, defense lowers the damage taken from most attacks, while Endurance protects from spike damage.

[psandak]

If I remember correctly, defense lowers the damage taken from most attacks, while Endurance protects from spike damage.

 

Not quite:

 

defense is the chance to avoid being hit altogether

shield is the chance to shield an attack

absorb % is how much damage is reduced when you shield an attack

 

The problem is that on boss fights, outright avoiding damage by "defending" (parry, deflect, dodge, etc) is VERY small.

[VegasTheLost]

Not quite:

 

defense is the chance to avoid being hit altogether

shield is the chance to shield an attack

absorb % is how much damage is reduced when you shield an attack

 

The problem is that on boss fights, outright avoiding damage by "defending" (parry, deflect, dodge, etc) is VERY small.

 

This.

 

Also huge damage spikes are designed in order to use a DCD rather than just 'eat' it with stat.

[forestguard]

Ah that's right. Been a while since I went over what defense does.

[psandak]

This.

 

Also huge damage spikes are designed in order to use a DCD rather than just 'eat' it with stat.

 

The problem is that many ops have boss encounters where if this was the only means of mitigating spike damage, tanks would be out of DCDs VERY quickly.

[FerkWork]

While that was dumb on their part but to answer your question:

 

1) Spike damage is mostly yellow damage and good amount I/E which defense doesn't work on.

2) Major Diminishing returns on defense

3) Sinilar to #1, Having enough HP can survive an attack. Even when's defense works on an attack it still a chance if you don't have enough HP.

 

 

Bulwark, Bastion Enhancements. and a combination of Lethal and Warding B Mods. I usually aim for 1800-2k defense and rest power but that's my preference.

[christian_bmx]

Thanks for all your answers.

 

I was checking my stats and now i have (with the stim and all the stuff for tank) 110hp. 3400 of defense, 1700 absorb 1700 shield. I think i am going to reduce a little of defense and increase my endurance

 

I have another question.

What about the relics? some tanks use relics for dps. With mastery and Power. I dont understand why someone need more power as tank. Maybe if i have more power i can do more damage and the result is i can do more threat?

 

Thanks again.

[forestguard]

Dps relics give endurance while tank relics really don't (not sure about BiS) and the passives on them as well as the mastery can help hit dps checks on bosses. Tank relics mainly give power and defense rating for the stats, and the procs aren't that great (ex: I believe reactive warding gives an absorb shield, but currently the various absorb shields, like VGs sonic rebounder, Guardian's Blade Barricade, Sage's Force Armor, and scoundrel's..i dunno what it's called, don't stack. Only one applies and the others won't do anything)

[KhaoTicTycoon]

Thanks for all your answers.

 

I was checking my stats and now i have (with the stim and all the stuff for tank) 110hp. 3400 of defense, 1700 absorb 1700 shield. I think i am going to reduce a little of defense and increase my endurance

 

I have another question.

What about the relics? some tanks use relics for dps. With mastery and Power. I dont understand why someone need more power as tank. Maybe if i have more power i can do more damage and the result is i can do more threat?

 

Thanks again.

 

As a Jugg tank you could comfortably drop another 600 or so defense for endurance. My Jugg which I use to tank every now and again only has about 2800 defense which puts me just above 28% defense chance. The way I like to think about it is while actually tanking and going through your rotation you'll get another 5% defense chance which will then put me at 33% so I should in theory be avoiding every 1 out of 3 attacks. Also, just for comparison sake I have roughly 123K HP in all 240 gear on my Jugg whereas my main toon, a Powertech tank, has about 131K HP atm and a little over 2000 power; I keep her just above 1900 defense only.

 

And yes the idea behind using 1 DPS relic (the Power Proc btw is BiS, or at least was) provides extra endurance which is the main reason a lot of tanks will run them, myself included. The extra power is more or less a nice bonus to threat generation and overall DPS.

[VegasTheLost]

The problem is that many ops have boss encounters where if this was the only means of mitigating spike damage, tanks would be out of DCDs VERY quickly.

 

True. All I'm saying however is that don't be surprised to die when someone only rely to stats.

[Silko]

Thanks for all your answers.

 

I was checking my stats and now i have (with the stim and all the stuff for tank) 110hp. 3400 of defense, 1700 absorb 1700 shield. I think i am going to reduce a little of defense and increase my endurance

 

I have another question.

What about the relics? some tanks use relics for dps. With mastery and Power. I dont understand why someone need more power as tank. Maybe if i have more power i can do more damage and the result is i can do more threat?

 

Thanks again.

 

My suggestion to you as a Jugg tank is to run at least 240 Warding B mods and a crafted 240 Shield Amp. This will drop your defensive stat by some amount and increase your health by quite a bit. Jugg tanks have the most built in defensive chance through our tree out of the three tanks so you can drop defense by quite a bit. ATM my jugg tank is in full 246 with some 248s, 240B mods (Still annoyed we can't craft 246B mods until 5.3.....) and a 240 crafted shield amp and I sit at about 123k HP. Now I can drop my other tanking relic for a DPS relic to get more health but I'm taking the wait and see approach to see how much health I will sit at once I get a full suit of 246B Mods.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Silko

[Ambramotte]

I mean, it was KP HM. Not exactly a hard fight. You should be fine with like 100-100k range.

 

I'd guess that either:

1) They were trying to compensate for some bad healers, or

2) They had concerns with your knowledge of your class given that you weren't gearing how a lot of other folks are gearing juggs

 

The reality is, gear hardly matters for tanks when you're talking about HMs. What's much much more important is that you know your class and when to use which DCDs . It also helps to maintain stacks. We were pulling NiM EC with 224 gear and one of the tanks in 186 gear and almost getting past EC tanks. So you're gear really isn't that much of an issue.