New Ideas for SWTOR's New Producer for PvP in 2017

[Talon_strikes]

Hey everyone,

 

If you haven't heard already, a couple of days ago Ben Irving, SWTOR Producer's that is known for his "RNG is exciting!" phrase, has stepped down from his role as Producer and is being succeeded by Keith Kanneg.

 

I figured now would be the time to create a thread for all of us to give the new Producer some short-term and long-term ideas for SWTOR PvP in these next 365 days, especially with the next SWTOR roadmap coming within the next few weeks.

 

I personally feel like PvP has not been getting the attention it deserves both on the content-front and on the balancing-front. It seems the War on Iokath may improve some things with a new focus on WPvP, but with how difficult the game's engine handles a 2+ 16m Ops groups fighting each other, and how horribly the meta is lopsided toward ranged classes (minus Sorc DPS), I still don't think that'll be enough to improve the state of PvP as it is right now. We also haven't gotten a new Warzone map or Arena map for over a year now, so things have been getting pretty stale to put it modestly.

 

In conclusion, please give roughly 5 points of short-term and/or long-term ideas you'd like for the new Producer to possibly address for PvP'ers in the upcoming SWTOR roadmap and to perhaps keep in mind in these next 365 days.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Talon_strikes

[Talon_strikes]

Short-term Ideas:

1. Class Balance – The meta is an absolute mess right now. With Mercs that can dish out crazy burst, heal to full with 3 DCDs, and spam Electro Nets on a Sorc if they're stacked on one team, Engineering Snipers who can spam their AOE in PvP and infinitely slow you and, in general all of the crazy tools at their disposal to keep you at bay and mitigate damage, ranged is dominating in PvP and it's really getting out of hand. Class balance needs to be a major priority if not the 1st priority for PvP, to make melee classes more viable in PvP and give Sorcs better survivability against Electro Net spam. It's not fun queuing and getting stacked against an all Merc/Sniper team and you're a Sorc or a melee class.
   
2. Ranked Season 8 & Rewards – You guys have stated many times in the past that seasons would be shorter and that really hasn't been happening. If this was 8-man Warzones I would understand that fpr longer seasons but Arenas are speedy, and so should their seasons last as such. I also think Rewards could be improved. I know Operations have a few unique items (Wings of the Architect) and it would be nice to see less reskinned mounts and pets.
   
3. New Arena – It's been over a year and I feel since arenas aren't large as Warzone maps are a new Arena map this year would be most welcomed.

 

Long-term Ideas:

1. Ranked Warzones – I'd love to see Ranked Warzones come back. The thread that talked about Ranked Warzones being closed down in favor of Ranked Arenas was ultimately locked, and it really angered a lot of veteran and avid PvP'ers in this game. Many who posted in that thread don't even play anymore. Honestly, I think this system should have never been removed. You guys are bringing back WPvP with The War for Iokath update; I don't see why you guys can't try to bring back Ranked Warzones and make it co-exist with Ranked Arenas.
   
2. New Warzone – Same thing as a new arena, it's been over a year. Adding a new Warzone will help PvP feel less stale. Overall I think there needs to be more of an effort to add new maps in a quicker timeframe.
   
3. Class Representatives – As with Ranked Warzones I'd like to see this system come back as well. There are still a few apex players left for each class, and I think their input will help overall to balance the meta and expedite class balance changes since it won't be the studio alone with the few class balance employees it has trying to balance everything.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Talon_strikes

[Banderal]

I think they should add a simple honest-to-goodness actual "free for all" (or at least team-v-team) map. No objectives, no one watching nodes. No one running the ball. No one running orbs. No complex scoring weirdness. Just the two teams and the terrain.

 

You die, and you go to respawn for immediate insertion back into the melee. Total kills wins.

 

And make it a separate choice for queuing.

 

I would absolutely hate this map (probably), but a large portion of those that PvP seem to want to do this kind of thing, and only this kind of thing. Give them their map. And then let us choose which kind of PvP we want.

[yellow_]

I think it's pretty clear that bioware has very limited resources so they should focus their attention on improving the PVP we have over making new warzones and arenas. They (and we) can almost certainly get more bang for their buck doing the former, to say nothing of the fact that their newer maps have tended to suck. Rishi was a disaster on release and is still probably the worst arena even after fixing that whole getting deleted by the map thing. Queshball and ODP are not much better.

 

I don't harbor any delusions about the issues plaguing ranked arenas but I would much prefer a truly serious effort (a lot more than just throwing cxp at us) to overhaul them to be more fun and more accessible for the PVP population at large to dooming ourselves to 45 minute hypergates, team deathmatch voidstars, and actually trying to play quesh/odp seriously (yuck).

 

edit: seconding all the suggestions in the post below mine

Edited April 15, 2017 by yellow_

[Bobby_McDonald]

1. Rework acid in Arenas

 

Atm it works like an aoe, that is spreading. It should rather be an exhaustion zone for the whole map, only allowing people to stay alive within a specific area. And this area is getting smaller when time runs out. I just want hackes to not be able to survive acid.

 

2. Make Arenas cross-faction

 

Cross-faction is obviously possible with Odessen. Lore-wise it does not make sense for Novare Coast or Civil War, I understand that. But in Huttball and especially in Arenas you have Frogdogs vs Rottworms instead of Pubs vs Imps.

 

Currently in ranked we are often experiencing a shift towards one faction. Most matches are happening between two teams from the same faction. On TRE for example it is mostly empire vs empire. If you want to play your pub char, you will not get a pop. If it would be crossfaction like Odessen, you could just queue with any char and it would neither have influence on your chance of winning nor on your chance of getting a pop. It would also make it more difficult to queuesync.

 

3. If creating new maps, make some with less levels

 

The current engine obviously has problems to work with characters moving quickly between different levels of the map. That problem always existed with oper-roll. Even on maps with just one level like Novare Coast. It got unbearable now on maps with two or more levels: Quesh Huttball and Rishi Cove Arena. Characters that are changing their height quickly will often bug out and just disappear. With all the mobility going on now, new maps should be rather flat unless you can improve the engine itself.

[Foambreaker]

My message to him is simple:

 

Adopt some fair play guidelines and adhere to them. Things like setting bolster below max gear, premades farming pugs, bots, wicked class imbalances all fail to meet any conceivable fair play ideals.

 

Remember player versus player is not "Personal Best" like PvE, PvP is a COMPETITON and as such fairness is required.

[aristrokratie]

I. Class balance.

1. healers:

 

 

a. healing potential:

 

Mercs have strong single target and single target burst healing and their output is okayish. This will be your tank healer, great single target, good aoe.

I suggest slightly increasing group healing capabilities (kolto missile or kolto shell), while maintaining strong single target throughput.

 

Operatives have strong group healing, okay single target and weak single target burst. This class was never meant to be bursty.

I suggest putting more emphasis on the hotting mechanism in single target healing aswell (make kolto infusion a strong hot again) and increasing overall throughput of hots instead of cast or channeled heals, to build a strong hps healer with great throughput but very vulnerable to strong single target burst.

 

Sorcs have strong single target, strong burst and very good aoe. The aoe and single target potential of this class is lower than the merc's or op's respectively but due to idiotproof abilities and smart healing this class regularly outshines both other classes.

Sorcerers should be utility and mitigation healers like they are right now but not outperform the other classes at their strenghts, a master of none but good at everything.

I suggest nerfing innervate aswell as wandering mend and baking some extra healing into dark infusion and revivification, to keep potential throughput the same but making it harder to achieve it.

 

b. Energy management:

 

Sorc: okay, but only make revivification use force surge when at three stacks

Operative: okay, reduce energycost of kolto probe by 1. Please just let us have our energy neutral probe back.

Merc: meh. I'd suggest allowing for more energy efficient healing instead of passive heat venting when under crowd control

 

c. Mobility:

 

Sorcs: Literally never has to stop running, as all important heals are instant cast or castably on the move. They also have a 1 min cd teleport and a off gcd ''I am outta here, bye'' forcesprint. Make them cast again from time to time.

Mercs: Some heals are instant or on the move, but they still have to sit down and cast some heals. apart from that they have rocket out and hydraulic overrides. In general I consider mercs to be decently mobile.

 

Ops: Hots are instant which is a good chunk of what you do. Exfiltrate is a loss of 2 gcds and bugged thanks to rubberbanding. It also doesn't free you of roots which are thrown around like crazy. Single target healing is basically impossible on the run.

My suggestion would be to allow kolto infusion to be casted on the run and make Exfiltrate usable while rooted.

d. Survivability:

 

Merc: Has very good defensive cooldowns (shield, kolto) aswell as 30% reduced dmg while stunned.

 

Sorc: Forcebarrier, and phasewalk are stunlockescapes. Stunbubble helps to keep off melees, 30% reduced dmg while stunned, 25% dmgreduce on cloud mind

 

Op. dodge can mitigate white dmg but doesn't work when stunned right after. No good dcds except for stim boost utility which nullifies the only instant cast proc you can use to safe allies. No added dmg reduction while stunned, no additional stunescapes. This class clearly need some love in that regard.

For example add 30% dmgreduction while stunned or make shieldprobe reset and usable when stunned on a internal 45sec cd. Exfiltrate could also make you immune to dmg while used, since you spend a gcd on it, that you will still recieve dmg in.

 

Flexibility:

Sorc: can adapt to any scenario. Laughs at interrupts, interrupt immunity+ 20% alacrity, autocrit 2 heals, pull

Okay as this is the sorc's niche

 

Merc: Interrupts can be very tricky to work around, immunity if needed, double instant cast.

Fine

Operative: can keep grouphealing up even when chased around. Interrupts make people die when you have to single target heals. No interrupt immunity but one instant cast heals every 2 mins.

Atm a big problem, but resolved if more healing was baked into hots and surgical probe instead of casts.

 

 

Please let me know what you think about the intrahealbalance so I can overthink my suggestions and change them if needed.

[Kirtastropohe]

I understand the Devs have limited resouces, but the bottom line is that PvP needs attention, especially when getting unassembled components is important.

 

For me, it boils down to 2 main things:

1. Class balance

100% parity and balance is impossible, but it has to be better than what it is now. A WZ shouldn't consist of a firing squad of ranged lining up and blasting away on people that the way you've designed WZ objectives forces people to stand at. Nor should there be an ability a class can use again and again that slows people tremendously or prevents them from being able to obtain an objective. Ranged is OP right now, overall, and it leads into point 2...

 

2. Put the fun back in PvP.

It's not fun right now unless you're in a premade or have lucked out enough that your Pugs are not as incompetent or undergeared as the other team. Even then, it often comes down to luck of the draw as to what the composition of each team is. Most WZs are a stun/slow fest and AOE hell punctuated by ranged firing squads or near immortal healers.

 

You have classes with abilities that just suck all the fun out of a WZ, especially when so many of the objectives require you to be in a certain place. The forum is full of good threads pointing out abilities that are way OP or are broken beyond belief.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Kirtastropohe

[aristrokratie]

II.DPS:

 

Ranged vs Melee.

 

We are currently witnessing two very sad developments: Merc and sorc dps. Calling for a nerf or a buff of ranged in general is out of question since it really depends on the class and spec you are playing.

 

I would generally suggest that mercenaries (arsenal) and snipers (engineering) need to be toned down in terms of raw dmg and mobility (plz remove enet ). Classes like the lightning sorcerer hit like wet noodles in comparison and have very limited dcds and selfhealing.

 

The same can be said for melees. In my opinion marauders hit too hard for the survivability (dcds, vanish) and utility (strong anti kiting abilities, healing debuff) they have got or vice verca.

AP Powertechs could recieve some better survivability and lose some sticking power in return (pull or leap). Some specs like dot pt and dot operative should be buffed, aswell as juggernauts could use some reworking of the defenses. Dot sins need some more dmg mitigation.

 

III Tanks.

They are pretty balanced atm, except for the fact that tank tunnel works for jugg and powertech but doesn't for sin. I'd keep it they way it is but this bonus has to come with a tradeoff, maybe slightly nerf sin tank dmg.

[aristrokratie]

Make PvP more dynamic. This goes hand in hand with some of the points I have criticised so far, primarily melees having a **** ton of slows and roots to keep a target where it is and ranged having the same roots and slows to keep themelee from getting to them.

 

Removing passive slows and some roots would go a long way to making people actually able to move again.

 

Regarding acid, I'd completely scrap it. Socerers and snipers can win acid 100% against any other class if they know how. There are certain exploits that can be used to survive one more tick of the acid, while using bubble or double roll to avoid any incoming damage.

Possible solutions:

 

Dampening: gradually decreace healing recieved after 3-4 mins

 

or

 

If the timer exceeds 5 miuntes or so without someone dying the team with more dmg automatically wins, otherwise the team with the most remaining members wins, here's why:

 

1. healer stacking teams don't do a lot of damage

2. burst based teams who fail to hardswitch lose to dot teams.

3. If burst team kills someone and the opposing team just stalls them out they will win regardless

Edited April 15, 2017 by aristrokratie

[mmmbuddah]

My main gripe is the faction disparity. Give us cross faction please for faster pops, or at some times , pops period.

[Evolixe]

1. Rework acid in Arenas

 

Atm it works like an aoe, that is spreading. It should rather be an exhaustion zone for the whole map, only allowing people to stay alive within a specific area. And this area is getting smaller when time runs out. I just want hackes to not be able to survive acid.

 

Acid should just be removed as a mechanic period. There is no need for it to be doing damage to people. Suppressing and eventually eliminating healing completely will do the job on its own just fine.

 

Since it's literally only healer games that ever end in acid.

At least my way, the team that actually deserves the win gets a fair shot.

Rather than the RNG that is acid. Especially it favoring certain classes over others simply because of the way it works..

 

Sure, games might last a bit longer than 5 minutes, they might even stretch to 8 with very good teams that give their allies lots of peels. But an 8 minute non-enforced max is honestly completely fine. The healing suppression build up could be tuned to achieve that.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Evolixe

[Thaladan]

- remove arenas and joke ranked 4vs4.

 

- install a global rank system based on our loss, victories medals and objectives (with a leave considered as a game lost) in warzones.

 

- create a 2vs2 tournament occuring once or twice each week, or something like that. at a specific time, that players can watch and participate, with some prices, for fun.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Thaladan

[BaineOs]

Get rid of the stupid gearing system and bring back something similar to what we had in 4.0. That would be a good start...

[LeglessChair]

I want a warzone with a rancor in the middle of the map.

[Soljin]

- remove arenas and joke ranked 4vs4.

 

- install a global rank system based on our loss, victories medals and objectives (with a leave considered as a game lost) in warzones.

 

- create a 2vs2 tournament occuring once or twice each week, or something like that. at a specific time, that players can watch and participate, with some prices, for fun.

 

I Like this. Ranked in it's current state is pointless with weak rewards. I think a game wide ranking system to include medals, kills, all stats and win/loss ratios would really help the game and it would also promote good tactics and participation over bad behavior.

 

If the rewards were decent and given out to the top few players in each Stat people would really get into this and compete. I think it would draw people into playing PvP big time...It would pull me back in for sure.

[mmmbuddah]

I want a warzone with a rancor in the middle of the map.

 

Ring around the Rancor?

[MooseMcKenna]

Leave galactic command as it is for the soloist.

Just bring back the wz/pve commendations as a faster way of gearing for those involved in the group content.

[Banderal]

Ring around the Rancor?

 

LoL. Rancor is chained in the middle. All abilities turned off except for crowd contol, movement, breakers and cleanses. Add some harpoons. You try to push/pull the enemy into the ring. Rancor does massive damage if you get in range, on the level of the Quesh HB acid traps.

 

Maybe there's a way to break the chain, at which point the rancor goes on a rampage, targeting the "nearest" over and over until no one is left.

 

How's that?

[Ashbar]

GvG

Guilds can challenge other guilds to battle, compete for control of key parts of the world, and be ranked on a worldwide ladder. Players are marked everywhere and they can kill each other (exept op fp). Guilds can declare war upon each other, form alliances and help each other.

GvG Maps are the battleships of the Guilds like caputre the Flag (kill the Master, destroy the ship)

[Soljin]

GvG

Guilds can challenge other guilds to battle, compete for control of key parts of the world, and be ranked on a worldwide ladder. Players are marked everywhere and they can kill each other (exept op fp). Guilds can declare war upon each other, form alliances and help each other.

GvG Maps are the battleships of the Guilds like caputre the Flag (kill the Master, destroy the ship)

 

This would be very cool and is a standard design in a few other MMOs currently, BDO comes to mind. Lots of fun to be had with the GvG war system... and its voluntary. You may end up with some guilds splitting into two guild as a result to avoid forced PvP but they could offer a guild creation bonus upon releasing GvG war to help that along.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Soljin

[Icykill_]

Any really good ideas should also be posted in the suggestion section because Eric "said" they read those 🙄

[Opaknack]

... and give Sorcs better survivability against Electro Net spam. ...

Notice:

DD sorc. Ok.

But NOT heal sorc !!! This class is OP since 3 years and needs a several nerf.

[BigDumbViking]

1. NEW CONTENT

2. FIX SERVERS/ENGINE... The crap with people disappearing in WZ because the servers/engine suck, is just unacceptable for any game, but for a 5 year old game to develop this crap suddenly in 5.0 is crazy and needs to get fixed.

 

3. Deserter Debuff. If you quit a wz, you go into the penalty box for 15 minutes.

 

4. Make Vote to Kick actually work. It's too easy to game that system by tossing a grenade then running out and hiding every 5 minutes. If a player receives votes to kick in multiple wz's during a day then there should be a PVP ban and it should flag an actual investigation.

 

5. Penalties for people AFK'ing and hiding through WZ's just to get the companion.