Keith - As the new producer........

[Rion_Starkiller]

I really don't care if you, or me, or anyone gives Keith a chance as Producer or not, much less likes him or not. But let's not pretend you all won't turn on him at the first signs of any mistakes or lack of response to player demands.

 

"You all" generalization. Us vs them

 

But again.. I find it funny that you give Charles Boyd a pass on the hate, when he IS actually the Creative Director for the game, and has been since they went the chapter based story arc exapc focus in 4.0 and 5.0. And he has been pretty clear that he believes Story as a priority IS the main DNA of this game.

 

How does a creative director decide the direction of the game? The creative team decides what it looks like, sounds like, etc. He doesn't decide what gets patched, or what type of content is put into the game. I think you're thinking about someone with a higher position, which I can only speculate is EA. Unless BWA has a "President?" I doubt they have a CEO.

[Costello]

I have to agree. We have yet to see any indication that Keith will do anything to improve the game.

 

If we take it that he took over at the start of the month, his first public act was to delay the launch of 5.2 missing the deadline. Followed swiftly with a Cantina event which appears to be mostly about Cosplay and nothing to do with the game. From what has been reported the entire news coming from it was 5.3 will include a Flashpoint and something about twin bosses, though this isn't clear if its the next operation bosses or the flash point end boss.

 

All hail him as the saviour, all cast Ben down as the big bad evil. But has anyone got any proof, Hell has Keith got any evidence that he is going to improve things, I don't even know if he was being honest about 10,000 hours logged in game. It doesn't appear to be much in the way of posting history to check and as Eric's Boss its hard to see much of anything he has achieved except to have the community complaining constantly about the lack of communication.

[Andryah]

How does a creative director decide the direction of the game? The creative team decides what it looks like, sounds like, etc. He doesn't decide what gets patched, or what type of content is put into the game. I think you're thinking about someone with a higher position, which I can only speculate is EA. Unless BWA has a "President?" I doubt they have a CEO.

 

I think you would benefit from some personal research on what Creative Directors do in the gaming industry. About the only thing they do not drive directly is the budget, staffing, and cross functional interactions and depenencies (which is the Producers role). Their hands are all over the decisions, directions, and implementation of content. They LEAD the teams implementations from a creative perspective, which includes themes, directions, and approaches.

 

But by all means, pretend that the role does not exist, or is non-functional, and that Charles is in no way steering the creative direction of this MMO. Sure.. go for it..... if that makes you sleep better at night.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Andryah

[Darkside]

I have to agree. We have yet to see any indication that Keith will do anything to improve the game.

 

If we take it that he took over at the start of the month, his first public act was to delay the launch of 5.2 missing the deadline. Followed swiftly with a Cantina event which appears to be mostly about Cosplay and nothing to do with the game. From what has been reported the entire news coming from it was 5.3 will include a Flashpoint and something about twin bosses, though this isn't clear if its the next operation bosses or the flash point end boss.

 

All hail him as the saviour, all cast Ben down as the big bad evil. But has anyone got any proof, Hell has Keith got any evidence that he is going to improve things, I don't even know if he was being honest about 10,000 hours logged in game. It doesn't appear to be much in the way of posting history to check and as Eric's Boss its hard to see much of anything he has achieved except to have the community complaining constantly about the lack of communication.

 

I think that is being a bit unfair. I really suspect Keith is literally just stepping into the role and this probably the start of his first full week. The 5.2 delay, and the stuff planned for 5.3 likely had nothing to do with Keith.

[Rion_Starkiller]

I think you would benefit from some personal research on what Creative Directors do in the gaming industry. About the only thing they do not drive directly is the budget, staffing, and cross functional interactions and depenencies (which is the Producers role). Their hands are all over the decisions, directions, and implementation of content. They LEAD the teams implementations from a creative perspective, which includes themes, directions, and approaches.

 

But by all means, pretend that the role does not exist, or is non-functional, and that Charles is in no way steering the creative direction of this MMO. Sure.. go for it..... if that makes you sleep better at night.

 

A lot of what you are saying would come from a Strategy Director. And a PM would handle much of the implementation. It really depends how EA structured the Austin studio. Do you know?

 

Lastly, what is your agenda in pointing out Charles Boyd?

 

 

EDIT: Sorry I edited while you were responding.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller

[Andryah]

It doesn't appear to be much in the way of posting history to check and as Eric's Boss its hard to see much of anything he has achieved except to have the community complaining constantly about the lack of communication.

 

Given the long standing bad state of community relations (from the general players perspective) I would argue that this does not provide a base of confidence in Keith. But time will of course tell here.

 

But let's step up a bit in the conversation.... What player here on the forum can site any specific staffing move at the studio in the last 4 years that has visibly improved the state of the game in any persistent manner? What I hear most often here in the forum is A) they only have a small staff (often speculated at ~20), B) that they don't listen to players, C) that they take the game where the studio wants to take it, not the players, D) that they are as a whole.. inept as a gaming studio.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

A lot of what you are saying would come from a Strategy Director.

 

That is a corporate role normally (in this case at the EA level), and is pretty hands off on actual product implementations. It set's multi-year product plans at a high level, based on vague metrics like "market share growth" etc. etc.

 

But OK ... name the Strategy Director for SWTOR for me.. please.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Andryah

[HuaRya]

Knowing that Keith has multiple CXP 300 level characters and plays alongside us shows me more than anything else that he has gaming at his core. It actually instills more confidence than ever that good decisions from a gamers perspective will be implemented the best they can.

[Andryah]

Knowing that Keith has multiple CXP 300 level characters and plays alongside us shows me more than anything else that he has gaming at his core. It actually instills more confidence than ever that good decisions from a gamers perspective will be implemented the best they can.

 

Noted. And Bookmarked.

[TUXs]

Andryah just likes to be contrary. God forbid we actually try to be hopeful about this change in lead producers, right? God forbid we give Keith a fair chance! That doesn't fit their white knight narrative about how we're all just haters and trolls!

Exactly lol. Complaining because we're too optimistic now...that's a new one to me.

[Costello]

I think that is being a bit unfair. I really suspect Keith is literally just stepping into the role and this probably the start of his first full week. The 5.2 delay, and the stuff planned for 5.3 likely had nothing to do with Keith.

 

True, if he woke up April 1st and someone said Keith your the new Producer. No this isn't an April Fools Joke. P.S. Ben says your going to miss the deadline for patch 5.2 and so far for 5.3 we have a flashpoint planned good luck at the Cantina spinning that, maybe you can turn it into a Cosplay event.

 

But I suspect this was in the works long before he posted his announcement, there would likely have been 4 weeks (general notice period) for him to hand over his stuff to his successor (or Eric as I suspect he wont be replaced) and to receive a hand over from Ben. His come in, ignored the forums, his own welcome blog has no link the the forum which is why we are here, a post he appears to be ignoring as well (along with the rest of the forum), and the only evidence we have is a delayed update and a lack of any future plans.

 

I don't begrudge holding him as our saviour returned to us this Easter! And he will make the game great and there will be content for all and people will flock back. Hell I'm all for that, I watched Rogue One, Read Thrawn and wanted to jump back into a Galaxy Far Far Away and I want it to be better than Keeping Up with the Valkorians or attack of the inevitable obvious betrayals. But a start of that would be a post by him on the forums saying I've read peoples concerns and we will be looking to do x,y or z in the near future.

 

As it stands it could be that he has no intention of doing anything to improve the game and has been put in to convert it to maintenance mode and soon everyone will refer to the time when Ben was Producer as the Golden Age of SWTOR.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Costello

[AscendingSky]

A lot of what you are saying would come from a Strategy Director. And a PM would handle much of the implementation. It really depends how EA structured the Austin studio. Do you know?

 

Lastly, what is your agenda in pointing out Charles Boyd?

 

Their agenda is that they're trying to paint anyone who isn't a white knight like them as a terrible person who never gives anyone at the studio a chance. Because having me and others who are routinely critical of EAWare expressing hope about the change in producers potentially causing good results for the game doesn't fit their "you're all haters and trolls that I can talk down to constantly" narrative.

 

Now, why they're choosing to do this by saying "But you guys were never mean to Charles Boyd!" is a mystery to me too. They seem to be trying to prove their claim that we're hateful and don't give people a chance by... pointing out someone we're not being hateful towards? I don't know, the logic is not strong with them.

Edited April 17, 2017 by AscendingSky

[AscendingSky]

Andryah just likes to be contrary. God forbid we actually try to be hopeful about this change in lead producers, right? God forbid we give Keith a fair chance! That doesn't fit their white knight narrative about how we're all just haters and trolls!

 

LOL.. pretending like you every [sic] actually give anyone at the studio the benefit of the doubt.

 

Thank you for proving my exact point for me, and so fast too!

Edited April 17, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Andryah]

Lastly, what is your agenda in pointing out Charles Boyd?

 

Two reasons:

 

Charles Boyd IS, and has been, the creative director for SWTOR since they began working seriously on 4.0. You know.. at the point in time when many feel the game jumped the rails.

 

I find it hypocrisy on the part of negative narratives to single out one person that they decide to pummel on and on (Ben), yet they pretend nobody else in Austin is in any way influencing the ongoing design of this MMO.

 

I get that people who are frustrated with the state of the game want change, and a new face to some represents automatic change for the good.... but really.. when has any single person in Austin visibly moved the game in the direction that frustrated players want it to go? This change in assignments is a complete coin toss and NONE of us know what the results will be.... good, bad, or neutral.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Andryah

[Rion_Starkiller]

That is a corporate role normally (in this case at the EA level), and is pretty hands off on actual product implementations. It set's multi-year product plans at a high level, based on vague metrics like "market share growth" etc. etc.

 

But OK ... name the Strategy Director for SWTOR for me.. please.

 

I don't see a list of any positions anywhere, though there is James, Director of Design @ BWA (but he's been around since the old, old days-- thus is untouchable imo)

 

Do you know how much crossover there is between EA, Austin, Edmonton, and Montreal? I don't. And I don't assume anything. I think it is strange that you would point out Charles Boyd for the next witch hunt.

 

And for good measure, here is what a producer for video games does, as according to Wiki:

 

An internal producer is heavily involved in the development of, usually, a single game. Responsibilities for this position vary from company to company, but in general, the person in this position has the following duties:

• Negotiating contracts, including licensing deals
  
• Acting as a liaison between the development staff and the upper stakeholders (publisher or executive staff)
  
• Developing and maintaining schedules and budgets
  
• Overseeing creative (art and design) and technical development (game programming) of the game
  
• Ensuring timely delivery of deliverables (such as milestones)
  
• Scheduling timely quality assurance (testing)
  
• Arranging for beta testing and focus groups, if applicable
  
• Arranging for localization
  
• Pitching game ideas to publishers
  

Edited April 17, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller

[Darkside]

True, if he woke up April 1st and someone said Keith your the new Producer. No this isn't an April Fools Joke. P.S. Ben says your going to miss the deadline for patch 5.2 and so far for 5.3 we have a flashpoint planned good luck at the Cantina spinning that, maybe you can turn it into a Cosplay event.

 

But I suspect this was in the works long before he posted his announcement, there would likely have been 4 weeks (general notice period) for him to hand over his stuff to his successor (or Eric as I suspect he wont be replaced) and to receive a hand over from Ben. His come in, ignored the forums, his own welcome blog has no link the the forum which is why we are here, a post he appears to be ignoring as well (along with the rest of the forum), and the only evidence we have is a delayed update and a lack of any future plans.

 

I don't begrudge holding him as our saviour returned to us this Easter! And he will make the game great and there will be content for all and people will flock back. Hell I'm all for that, I watched Rogue One, Read Thrawn and wanted to jump back into a Galaxy Far Far Away and I want it to be better than Keeping Up with the Valkorians or attack of the inevitable obvious betrayals. But a start of that would be a post by him on the forums saying I've read peoples concerns and we will be looking to do x,y or z in the near future.

 

As it stands it could be that he has no intention of doing anything to improve the game and has been put in to convert it to maintenance mode and soon everyone will refer to the time when Ben was Producer as the Golden Age of SWTOR.

 

I'm not going to buy into the negative narrative at the moment, but I will say that neither I, nor you know for sure the time line of events, so my assumption could be equally as true as yours. And sometimes when people get "fired", it is often spun as "moving onto other opportunities", and usually those events are rather short notice.

[Andryah]

Their agenda is that they're trying to paint anyone who isn't a white knight like them as a terrible person who never gives anyone at the studio a chance. Because having me and others who are routinely critical of EAWare expressing hope about the change in producers potentially causing good results for the game doesn't fit their "you're all haters and trolls that I can talk down to constantly" narrative.

 

Incorrect interpretation by you, as usual. My only point here is that I find it hilarious that the disaffected here so easily condemn one person on the studio staff, and yet give another one who is intimately involved in the design direction of this game is given a complete pass. The only reason I can see is that Ben was the public voice of the studio during a period when a lot of players soured on the game, yet Charles is quietly behind the scenes, rarely actually engaging with the player base.. and he gets a complete pass on all the expressed frustrations.

 

Conclusion.. you like to have a specific person you can rant at and hang in effigy in the forum. Soon though, I expect it will be Keith.. because your old target has moved on to something else. The constant here being the need to have a villain that you can burn in effigy.

 

Now, why they're choosing to do this by saying "But you guys were never mean to Charles Boyd!" is a mystery to me to. They seem to be contradicting the fact that we're hateful and don't give people a chance by... pointing out someone we're not being hateful towards? I don't know, the logic is not strong with them.

 

One word ---> hypocrisy on the part of players condemning one person and not another. {Yep.. it's all Ben... if they just replace Ben all will be right with the world... If they just replace Ben, all our frustrations will be eliminated... Fire Ben, yada yada yada}.

[TUXs]

...when has any single person in Austin visibly moved the game in the direction that frustrated players want it to go?

You mean since Ben? Ben dumped all traditional MMO content and focused solely on story. Ben did that. Ben gave us the entire 5.0 RNG gearing fiasco, which they've been pretending to fix since it was implemented. Keith has already turned the ship around by undoing much of what 5.0 removed (gearing via Ops) and returning to MMO basics (raiding/Ops and PvP). I'll be a little less harsh to judge them on the one boss at a time release because of this change.

[Rion_Starkiller]

You mean since Ben? Ben dumped all traditional MMO content and focused solely on story. Ben did that. Ben gave us the entire 5.0 RNG gearing fiasco, which they've been pretending to fix since it was implemented. Keith has already turned the ship around by undoing much of what 5.0 removed (gearing via Ops) and returning to MMO basics (raiding/Ops and PvP). I'll be a little less harsh to judge them on the one boss at a time release because of this change.

 

Yes, and I suspect he left earlier than the April announcement of Keith taking over. Possibly right before 5.1? Speculation, of course. But game direction seems to have vastly changed considering the difference between KOTFE/KOTET, then suddenly 2017 and 5.1 and beyond is all about adding MMO and group content, including OW PVP, operations, reputation, etc.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller

[Andryah]

An internal producer is heavily involved in the development of, usually, a single game. Responsibilities for this position vary from company to company, but in general, the person in this position has the following duties:

• Negotiating contracts, including licensing deals
  
• Acting as a liaison between the development staff and the upper stakeholders (publisher or executive staff)
  
• Developing and maintaining schedules and budgets
  
• Overseeing creative (art and design) and technical development (game programming) of the game
  
• Ensuring timely delivery of deliverables (such as milestones)
  
• Scheduling timely quality assurance (testing)
  
• Arranging for beta testing and focus groups, if applicable
  
• Arranging for localization
  
• Pitching game ideas to publishers
  

 

Gee.. I can google too.

 

-----

A Creative Director in a gaming company is....

 

With the increased team sizes and more specialized disciplines in the games industry, certain game designers are titled as 'creative director', 'executive designer', or 'game director'.

 

A creative director in a video game company is usually responsible for product development across a number of titles and is generally regarded as the prime design authority across the company's product range.

 

The creative director has a very important responsibility in this industry because video games are all visual and motion graphic driven. The director must devise ideas to lead a video game project forward and many responsibilities involve working with various individuals or teams spread out within the entire project/video game production.

 

In some industries Creative Director is one of the most important leadership roles in product design.

----

 

>>>> But the real point here is people are pretending that everything about 4.0 and 5.0 that they do not like is all because of Ben Irving.

 

Personally, I don't think Ben has been the source of all that is perceived as evil, though I also do not think he did anything remarkable with SWTOR during his tenure on the game. He made the same mistakes every other producer has on this game... say one thing and do another, misrepresent, and shifting the bars as they go forward, allegedly lying to players faces, etc. etc. etc.

 

Why, given we have always had weak results from the studio in terms of MMO style expectations from players, would anyone here expect anything remarkably different from a different person in the same seat.. particularly a studio incumbent with no actual experience yet as a producer of a large MMO. That level of "fluffy-faux-trust" by some here makes no sense to me at all. Note: I am not saying to throw Keith under the bus on day one, but I also do not advocate giving Keith trust in advance given the history of production, and producers, on SWTOR.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Andryah

[AscendingSky]

One word ---> hypocrisy on the part of players condemning one person and not another. {Yep.. it's all Ben... if they just replace Ben all will be right with the world... If they just replace Ben, all our frustrations will be eliminated... Fire Ben, yada yada yada}.

 

Please point out where I have ever said that firing Ben would fix all our problems, or anything along those same lines. I dare you... back up your words with actual facts and evidence for once in your life. Or just snuggle up again with your strawman spouse and prove my point for me once again!

Edited April 17, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Andryah]

Please point out where I have ever said that firing Ben would fix all our problems, or anything along those same lines. I dare you... back up your words with actual facts and evidence for once in your life. Or just snuggle up again with your strawman spouse and prove my point for me once again!

 

Please objectively explain your immediate and sudden trust/faith/hope in Keith.... other then "anybody but Ben".

 

Please explain why all of Austin is blameless here.. except for Ben.

 

I get it.. you like to single out one person to flame and blame, and ignore all the underlying infrastructure of people and other assets in Austin. I don't why it makes you feel good, but you are free to do so. Personally, I place very little faith in any MMO studio, staff, or leadership, and never have. They do what they feel is best for the company and players.. and make compromises that leave players in the lurch sometimes. And all studio do this to one degree or another, which is why I personally would rather just embrace (or work around) what they release as I know that they cannot please everyone in an MMO.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Andryah

[AscendingSky]

Please objectively explain your immediate and sudden trust/faith/hope in Keith.... other then "anybody but Ben".

 

Please actually read what I've posted... like the multiple posts where I stated that the change in producers was not a guarantee that things would get better. Reading comprehension is your friend!

 

And I like how you completely dodged (yet again) my calling you out for proof of your baseless accusations against me and just swapped to yet another different baseless accusation. Derailing for dummies right there!

[Andryah]

Please actually read what I've posted... like the multiple posts where I stated that the change in producers was not a guarantee that things would get better. Reading comprehension is your friend!

 

And I like how you completely dodged (yet again) my calling you out for proof of your baseless accusations against me and just swapped to yet another different baseless accusation. Derailing for dummies right there!

 

Blah blah blah. Are you pretending that you are not glad to see Ben gone, and that you are pleased to see Keith take the role.. even though you have absolutely no idea if it may just be "out of the frying pan and into the fire"? and yes.. you AscendingSky DO blame all of SWTORs faults on Ben... and that is your choice to do so. But an MMO shift (good or bad) is not the result of any one person in a studio ..ever.

 

Neither of us are actually talking to each other though .. these comments by both of us are for other readers, based on our personal opinions. So I really don't understand why you want to go on some personal vendetta toward me as "just being contrarian". I guess you just don't like it when people do not see things your way.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Andryah

[AscendingSky]

Blah blah blah. Are you pretending that you are not glad to see Ben gone, and that you are pleased to see Keith take the role.. even though you have absolutely no idea if it may just be "out of the frying pan and into the fire"? and yes.. you AscendingSky DO blame all of SWTORs faults on Ben... and that is your choice to do so. But an MMO shift (good or bad) is not the result of any one person..ever.

 

Neither of us are actually talking to each other.. these comments by both of us are for other readers, based on our personal opinions. So I really don't understand why you want to go on some personal vendetta toward me as "just being contrarian".

 

Still waiting for you to point to a single post I've made that backs up any of your baseless accusations against me. C'mon. Do it! I double dog dare you! You're so sure I've said these things, right? It would be super easy, if I've really posted these things you like to keep claiming I have, to just point to the posts, right?!

 

Of course, I know you can't, because those posts don't exist except in your fevered white knight brain. If you can't back up your words, you should stop throwing shade and spreading lies about other players.

 

Sure, I'm happy Ben is gone. He was incompetent. But again, as I have pointed out multiple times on this forum, on posts you could easily look up right now, there's no guarantee Keith will make anything better. Do I hope he does? Yes, I do, because--unlike what your baseless slanderous statements would indicate--I believe in giving people a fair chance, and I'd also love for this game to improve.

Edited April 17, 2017 by AscendingSky