SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[Zimakai]

They compare because SWTOR has had a lot of time to fix bugs or implement changes that have been fixed in other MMO's, like WOW.

 

Even though I like this game, I do not approve of the mentality of releasing a game, and fixing it within the first year with major content patches and updates.

 

There are some very basic things that should have been fixed before releasing this game. Especially since we have another massive MMO to compare to, is why we are comparing. Release time doesnt matter that much.

[DThoran]

This game has had the most polished release of any MMO to date. There is no way to compare it currently with the amount of content wow has amassed over the last 7 years. (unless you want to give swtor 7 years also) It is not wow, it is swtor. Yes it has to have many of the features that make an mmo successful, but it does not have to be exactly like wow to do that. People are looking for something new and fresh after 7 years of same old same old wow, and I think they get that with tor.

 

and not all people are impressed by the same thing, which is why 20 million people have bought minecraft.....

[Inune]

If the WoW fanboys really thought that game was as good as they claim it is then they wouldn't be here playing SWTOR, they never would've left WoW in the first place.

 

That's why I won't bother arguing with them anymore.

 

WoW sucks, that's why they're here. At the end of the day they defeat their own "point" every single time.

 

Am I on the WoW forums telling them their game sucks? No, I'm here playing SWTOR and/or discussing SWTOR on the SWTOR forums.

 

They defeated themselves just by being here.

 

 

Untrue on multiple points:

 

First, that people have left WoW. A sizable group of the people I play with currently hold both WoW and SWTOR accounts and are waiting for their 30 days to run out to decide which game to drop and which to continue sub'ing to. This in particular means it's critical for the developers to get the game more polished within the next month.

 

Second, that people think WoW "sucks." WoW doesn't suck. WoW is an amazingly developed game and has plenty for SWTOR developers to learn from. To a lot of people, however, WoW has become stale - and that isn't the same as sucking. You can get bored of even a flawlessly developed game and eventually seek fresher content.

 

Third, that criticisms of SWTOR that compare it to WoW are invalid simply by virtue of someone playing TOR over WoW. WoW has contributed an impressive list of design features to the MMO genre and ignoring those simply because of which game you've chosen to play is the height of willful, self-destructive ignorance.

[Tosen]

People compare the two because they are not blinder wearing fanboys and realize that in order to stay relevant and eventually "take over" the MMO marketshare, SWTOR will need to adapt and incorporate "cutting edge" features that appear in other MMO's, new and old.

 

This is what has led to WOW's sustained dominance, the ability to adapt and evolve, and unless SWTOR wants to become a niche game carrying a couple hundred thousand subs, it will learn to do the same. (not saying it wont, or it isn't, it still is too early to tell.)

[Dathron]

Most of the budget? Based on what knowledge? The most common budget estimate for this game was 135 million. Are you suggesting they spent something around 100 million on voice acting? Being upset about a game does not justify complete disregard for common sense. Aristotle hates you.

 

Ermmm yes I am, have you ever seen the cost of a recording studio their rather expensive to not only rent but even more to have your self, its ruffly $1,000per 2-5 mins depending on where it is. now over 200 hours of dialong so $200,000 so far -ish then their is the cost of the voice actors then ofc syncing ingame etc etc etc

[Dathron]

read original post before comenting

 

just because of the tittle please.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Dathron

[PhoenixStar]

Untrue on multiple points:

 

First, that people have left WoW. A sizable group of the people I play with currently hold both WoW and SWTOR accounts and are waiting for their 30 days to run out to decide which game to drop and which to continue sub'ing to. This in particular means it's critical for the developers to get the game more polished within the next month.

 

Second, that people think WoW "sucks." WoW doesn't suck. WoW is an amazingly developed game and has plenty for SWTOR developers to learn from. To a lot of people, however, WoW has become stale - and that isn't the same as sucking. You can get bored of even a flawlessly developed game and eventually seek fresher content.

 

Third, that criticisms of SWTOR that compare it to WoW are invalid simply by virtue of someone playing TOR over WoW. WoW has contributed an impressive list of design features to the MMO genre and ignoring those simply because of which game you've chosen to play is the height of willful, self-destructive ignorance.

 

So WoW doesn't suck yet you're busy shopping for another game to play to replace it. Just because you left your subscription active while playing another game doesn't mean you're still currently playing WoW. If you were you wouldn't be here. Nice try.

 

WoW does suck. That's why you're here. All the typing in the world won't change that.

 

WoW was clearly your first MMO and that's why you think it was so innovative and original. Anyone who played literally any MMO before it knows better. It's always so easy to point one of you out the second you claim that game was in any way innovative for making it possible to ignore story, speed through content, and afk while waiting for an instance to pop. All WoW did was make MMOs worse and those of us who were around for UO, EQ, DAoC, etc are waiting for the correction which takes us back to where we were before WoW came along.

[Sohtaraz]

This is the year 2011 just in case someone was wondering, or 2012 if your from the future. If you are, Hi and greetings to you!

 

That means that the standards of today are 2011 and any game that is released is a subject to the standards of 2011.

 

Just a heads up there are more games out there then WoW that have jumped up in the last 7 years and maybe you should look what they hold up as well? Newest one is Rift iirc.

[Chanamel]

Ermmm yes I am, have you ever seen the cost of a recording studio their rather expensive to not only rent but even more to have your self, its ruffly $1,000per 2-5 mins depending on where it is. now over 200 hours of dialong so $200,000 so far -ish then their is the cost of the voice actors then ofc syncing ingame etc etc etc

 

200K would amount to less than .2% of their budget.

[krookie]

People compare the two because they are not blinder wearing fanboys and realize that in order to stay relevant and eventually "take over" the MMO marketshare, SWTOR will need to adapt and incorporate "cutting edge" features that appear in other MMO's, new and old.

 

This is what has led to WOW's sustained dominance, the ability to adapt and evolve, and unless SWTOR wants to become a niche game carrying a couple hundred thousand subs, it will learn to do the same. (not saying it wont, or it isn't, it still is too early to tell.)

 

This is actually a very good point. Say what you want about Blizzard but they are excellent about staying on top of emerging features and incorporating them into WoW thus ensuring that the game doesn't feel "old."

[Zarovich]

Because the bugs and design flaws that are a huge problem right now where seen in Alpha and Beta and nothing was done. This had 10x WoW's budget. It had twice the development time. It also had "blueprints" to a successful MMO.

 

A bug seen a year ago in Alpha should not make it to live. And hundreds have.

 

Anything else?

 

You obviously don't work in the IT field. No software can ever be bug free. If a company made a statment to never release a piece of software that was "bug-free" it won't ever release anything because it would go bankrupt before it could ever achieve it.

[Reecelol]

as it stands wow vs swtor is like a new car company coming out with a new car that everyone wants.

 

then you buy the car and realize it doesnt have anti-lock brakes, a spare, or power steering.

(but these things might be added later, or maybe never at all)

 

would you be ok with that?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Reecelol

[Marmerus]

The fact that you don't even know why WoW was successful is laughable considering you're the one who brought it up. Most people aren't gamers, most people don't own gaming PCs/laptops, and most WoW players aren't gamers. Do the math. WoW was many of their customers first game period.

When WoW was released you needed a gaming PC to run it. To max out the settings at 1600x1200 you needed a Radeon X850 XT PE and that would equal to a Mars II today.

To get enjoyable framerates you needed a 6600GT or better graphics card and that would equal a GTX 570 or a Radeon 6970 today.

 

So by judging your post you were not there at release or you were not a gamer like me.

[carthedani]

as it stands wow vs swtor is like a new car company coming out with a new car that everyone wants.

 

then you buy the car and realize it doesnt have anti-lock brakes, a spare, or power steering.

(but these things might be added later, or maybe never at all)

 

would you be ok with that?

 

Why would you buy a car without researching what it offers?

[Reecelol]

Why would you buy a car without researching what it offers?

 

valid point to some degree. but there are some things you just expect to be there.

[Llenyd]

The same reason people compare a Ford F150 to a Toyota Tundra. They don't care how long each model has been out; the two products are competing right now for customers and those customers are going to compare available features.

[Marmerus]

as it stands wow vs swtor is like a new car company coming out with a new car that everyone wants.

 

then you buy the car and realize it doesnt have anti-lock brakes, a spare, or power steering.

(but these things might be added later, or maybe never at all)

 

would you be ok with that?

 

Depends on if its a chick magnet or not.

[Reecelol]

The same reason people compare a Ford F150 to a Toyota Tundra. They don't care how long each model has been out; the two products are competing right now for customers and those customers are going to compare available features.

 

you are the smartest person on this forum. no troll. literally the wisest thing ive seen anyone post.

[Lienwyn]

You obviously don't work in the IT field. No software can ever be bug free. If a company made a statment to never release a piece of software that was "bug-free" it won't ever release anything because it would go bankrupt before it could ever achieve it.

 

I do work in the software field, and I will personally NEVER touch the development of an MMO in my life because Blizzard has effectively monopolized the entire Western market for MMOs.

 

World of Warcraft will never die unless it kills itself. The same thing can be said about Microsoft Windows. The reasoning behind this is simple: they have had more time and funds to refine their product.

 

The two things needed to develop a great piece of software is not so much funds but

 

TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

When you do not have time, really stupid things happen. Features are left out, segmentation faults are "bandaged up" and left alone to be fixed later, allocation of memory gets screwed up, variables stay in scope when they aren't supposed to, etc. etc. etc. (Maybe even goto, continue, breaks are used, and if you're working with IBM, you used the word FRIEND or PROTECTED and get fired).

 

So why do people compare? Because it's in their right to and they damn well should be. Give me one reason to play Rift over WoW? Rift was literally a copy of WoW, they even had direct talent copies. SWTOR's talent tree is a direct copy from WoW, their combat system is almost entirely the same except for the removal of auto attacks. Hell, you could easily compare the Jedi Knight / Sith Warrior mana/whatever system with the RAGE system in WoW.

 

If they are going to copy and not refine the ideas to the point where the ideas are no longer recognizable as copies by the general public, then they will get compared. This was Bioware's own doing.

[carthedani]

valid point to some degree. but there are some things you just expect to be there.

 

Well put, I kind of expected the GTN to have a search feature. The game definately has some things it needs fixed, but they're not game-breakers for me. The game isn't for everyone. Then again I had no expectations coming into the game.

Edited December 28, 2011 by carthedani

[Inune]

So WoW doesn't suck yet you're busy shopping for another game to play to replace it. Just because you left your subscription active while playing another game doesn't mean you're still currently playing WoW. If you were you wouldn't be here. Nice try.

 

WoW does suck. That's why you're here. All the typing in the world won't change that.

 

WoW was clearly your first MMO and that's why you think it was so innovative and original. Anyone who played literally any MMO before it knows better. It's always so easy to point one of you out the second you claim that game was in any way innovative for making it possible to ignore story, speed through content, and afk while waiting for an instance to pop. All WoW did was make MMOs worse and those of us who were around for UO, EQ, DAoC, etc are waiting for the correction which takes us back to where we were before WoW came along.

 

 

On the first point: it would be extremely immature to maintain blind fanboyism in Blizzard and not test the waters of new games that come out. Ergo, why I'm currently playing SWTOR unless it's guild raid time in WoW. That doesn't mean I have dropped WoW in either subscription or desire to play it. I will admit one thing: that I want SWTOR to be better than WoW. As it stands, though, I'm still waiting to see what they do to improve the game's polish before my 30 days are up.

 

On the second point: I have been around MMOs since I played a level-capped Necro and Wizard in Everquest 1. If you honestly believe that Everquest 1 was not improved on by WoW, you have one of the largest set of pink-shaded blinders on that I have encountered on the internet. Going from EQ1 to WoW for me saw the removal of grind-based leveling where you sat in one spot and killed nameless mobs repeatedly with no story or reasoning behind gaining levels. Going from EQ1 to WoW saw the improvement of boss mechanics from "This guy death touches you and quad hits" to the plethora of fairly unique and interesting fight mechanics in WoW (some that failed, admittedly, and others that were awesome). I could go on like this for days.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Inune

[Alcarinn]

The point why people compare is simple...

 

They year is 2011 soon to be 2012 and everything that is now in WoW is 2011 marked and everything that is good and WoW has and SwToR does not is bad because we do not compare games on your basis (its X days old and WoW X years) we or better say customers compare right now...

 

Bioware can buy WoW account and check and use good features and add their own if they do not thats not being original thats being dumb. simple as that.

 

AH or GTM is the prime example of that... Even WoW had better AH 7 years ago than SWToR has right now.

[falkerman]

I agree with you. I understand, SWTOR has to compete with WoW to be able to hold subscribers, otherwise people will go back to WoW.

 

 

I find this statement very incorrect.

 

The majority of people I know who left WoW for this game is just plain sick of WoW.

 

They're willing to be patient and wait for new features, because they understand it doesn't happen overnight.

 

 

I've seen someone say it before, and it holds true with every TOR hater out there...

 

TOR has all the features of WoW = WoW Clone = Fail

 

TOR doesn't have all the features of WoW = WoW is better = Fail.

 

 

There's no winning with people, so might as well ignore them.

[Sohtaraz]

No you did not. You're a huge liar and I was in beta playing a dwarf mage who only got to 12 because I was bored out of my skull.

 

I wasn't even on a gaming PC at the time I got into beta because my computer died and I had to use a spare. You can max out WoW without even having a graphics card, you always could.

 

It's one thing to have a terrible opinion about how "great" WoW is, it's another to flat out lie like you just did.

 

I would like to follow up on your post a bit if you wont take offense:

 

WoW was allways designed to run with low spec computers. It's the blizzards way of designing things and it really hurts them in the end when it comes to implementing new things.

 

And yes WoW does not require alot of memory on its own, the reason why you needed a high end computer to run it were the number of memory leaks and addons that were flat out poorly optimised. This was more in terms of CPU power and memory, not graphical drawing power as you suggested and this has allways been the case in wow trough out the history.

 

Oh and nice lie WoW was a huge grind from 40 to 60 until they went back in lowered the amount of exp necessary and added more quests. Clearly you weren't even around.

 

Leveling 57-60 on two characters by grinding elite mobs, no quests left. Yeaah I wouldn't even go far as level 40 becouse the moment you came out of STV you were on your own baby, quests far between and dificulty curve just kicked you in the face.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Sohtaraz

[Dekadez]

We compare because we expect evolution.

 

I know you creationists don't believe in that, but I do. I don't compare a 2011 product to a 2004 at the same phase of release. I compare a product to other products it's competing with, and that is (for one) World of Warcraft as it is right now.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Dekadez