Does this game feel kind of lifeless?

[AscendingSky]

Yup. 4.0 was the games downfall. Even 3.0 had its issues.

 

4.0 wasn't great, but it was more tolerable than this. It was an interesting experiment at best. Sadly, EAWare closed their eyes, covered their ears, and failed to acknowledge any of the actual results of said experiment (i.e. server population decreases across the board due to the content drought) and doubled-down on the type of efforts they were putting in to specifically try luring in the more casual gamers who had already tried out TOR, gotten bored, and left long ago to try something else instead. Now they're stuck with the diehards who they've been neglecting for over two years, which is why there's a sudden scramble on their part to develop actual MMO content over single player episodic RPG content.

Edited March 15, 2017 by AscendingSky

[GalacticKegger]

4.0 wasn't great, but it was more tolerable than this. It was an interesting experiment at best. Sadly, EAWare closed their eyes, covered their ears, and failed to acknowledge any of the actual results of said experiment (i.e. server population decreases across the board due to the content drought) and doubled-down on the type of efforts they were putting in to specifically try luring in the more casual gamers who had already tried out TOR, gotten bored, and left long ago to try something else instead. Now they're stuck with the diehards who they've been neglecting for over two years, which is why there's a sudden scramble on their part to develop actual MMO content over single player episodic RPG content.

3.0 CC'd it ... 4.0 killed it ... and 5.0 buried it. Which means any return to being a real MMORPG will require exhuming followed by a 2.10x resurrection. These el cheapo MMO reanimation experiments are creating an undead mess. Edited March 15, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[AscendingSky]

3.0 CC'd it ... 4.0 killed it ... and 5.0 buried it. Which means any return to being a real MMORPG will require exhuming followed by a 2.10x resurrection. These el cheapo MMO reanimation experiments are creating an undead mess.

 

I actually didn't have a problem with SoR/3.0. No, it wasn't perfect, but there was story, there were two new planets to explore (Rishi and Yavin), we got two new raids and two new flashpoints (and the leadup story to SoR gave us 4 more FPs in the bargain!), they added some quality of life improvements and strongholds, made gearing make more sense, etc. Yeah, I have critiques on the whole weirdness of there being two Revans, but at least it was content, and a fair amount of it. At least they didn't just level sync all the old content and call it new again; there was actually a raid progression curve.

[GalacticKegger]

I actually didn't have a problem with SoR/3.0. No, it wasn't perfect, but there was story, there were two new planets to explore (Rishi and Yavin), we got two new raids and two new flashpoints (and the leadup story to SoR gave us 4 more FPs in the bargain!), they added some quality of life improvements and strongholds, made gearing make more sense, etc. Yeah, I have critiques on the whole weirdness of there being two Revans, but at least it was content, and a fair amount of it. At least they didn't just level sync all the old content and call it new again; there was actually a raid progression curve.

SoR was indeed pretty good with Rishi, Yavin 4, Ziost (sort of), new FPs and Ops. And it did maintain the progression mechanics and loot tables of its predecessors. But it did away with leveling flashpoints and HMs leaving us with only solo mode and tactical (where the 2.5 GSF patch originally started tacticals but left everything else alone). Plus its introducing solo-only quest dialogue interactions signaled the beginning of the end for expansion group questing.

 

I would gladly take a reboot to 3.3.x if we got pre-2.5 leveling (non-solo and non-bolstered) flashpoint and HM options added back, and groups (like my wife & I) were allowed to play through expansion story and their dialogue interactions together like we could before SoR.

Edited March 16, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[CKNORTH]

I have been playing WoW this last month, so "Yawn" I am looking forward to play some SWTOR! I miss my RotJ Luke Skywalker lightsaber the sound it makes when activated, same sound when the trooper on the speeder turns around to gun him down... So sweet, music to the ears Lmao!

 

If you want stale games, well. There is EQ1&2 WoW GW1&2 LOTRO (UO & DAoC) on Origin. One thing to keep in mind is spring is here?? From now till October MMO's sees a decline in its subscriber base, just one of those things.

[GalacticKegger]

I have been playing WoW this last month, so "Yawn" I am looking forward to play some SWTOR! I miss my RotJ Luke Skywalker lightsaber the sound it makes when activated, same sound when the trooper on the speeder turns around to gun him down... So sweet, music to the ears Lmao!

 

If you want stale games, well. There is EQ1&2 WoW GW1&2 LOTRO (UO & DAoC) on Origin. One thing to keep in mind is spring is here?? From now till October MMO's sees a decline in its subscriber base, just one of those things.

What makes them stale? Edited March 16, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[CKNORTH]

Well Stale for me, before I left EQ I had like 987 In game days played... Wow was a close second to that time. The rest really didn't hold much interest. When you lived since Pong Gave birth to PinBall... I suppose a game would literally have to be something so extraordinary that it could hold attention to my interests longer than 5 years. For all you younglings you guy's have all the cool stuff! Way more fun!! This game is one of the very few theme park games that keep me gaming. Edited March 16, 2017 by CKNORTH

[Storm-Cutter]

It is stale and lifeless. After weeks of nothing new, being Alt unfriendly and adding grind.... people have drifted away. If you're strictly story, solo or PvE then there's never enough to keep you occupied.

If you also or only do PvP and/or GSF, the lack of development is obvious.

 

There isn't much on the horizon to look forward to, and taking 5 months or so just to fine-tune galactic command shows how out of touch the studio is. - And pitting out 20- minutes of expensive cutscenes connected with a story every 6 months isn't gonna set the world on fire.

 

It needs a big injection of time, love and vision. The current path is a death of many cuts and cutbacks. Things like direct sales are great for a quick cash-boost to pad the bottom line, but without investing in content, the game is just slowly circling the drain.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Storm-Cutter

[CKNORTH]

It is stale and lifeless. After weeks of nothing new, being Alt unfriendly and adding grind.... people have drifted away. If you're strictly story, solo or PvE then there's never enough to keep you occupied.

If you also or only do PvP and/or GSF, the lack of development is obvious.

 

There isn't much on the horizon to look forward to, and taking 5 months or so just to fine-tune galactic command shows how out of touch the studio is. - And pitting out 20- minutes of expensive cutscenes connected with a story every 6 months isn't gonna set the world on fire.

 

It needs a big injection of time, love and vision. The current path is a death of many cuts and cutbacks. Things like direct sales are great for a quick cash-boost to pad the bottom line, but without investing in content, the game is just slowly circling the drain.

 

Very sad but true, unless they intend it to be like there other active MMO's on origin... Great nostalgia games but with a community of ten people and one dude for maintainence... Not sure what BW/EA intentions are but maybe it's just slowly turning into a single player online game with heavy role playing features.... Who knows unfortunately but them.

[TUXs]

4.0 wasn't great, but it was more tolerable than this. It was an interesting experiment at best. Sadly, EAWare closed their eyes, covered their ears, and failed to acknowledge any of the actual results of said experiment (i.e. server population decreases across the board due to the content drought) and doubled-down on the type of efforts they were putting in to specifically try luring in the more casual gamers who had already tried out TOR, gotten bored, and left long ago to try something else instead. Now they're stuck with the diehards who they've been neglecting for over two years, which is why there's a sudden scramble on their part to develop actual MMO content over single player episodic RPG content.

Oh I agree...I didn't mean to imply 4.0 was all bad. 4.0 brought some welcomed changes actually imo. I was very against level sync...but seeing it in action changed my mind. I LOVE being able to go back to starter planets and get help or be helped by level 65/70's. I liked the easier gearing - it prompted me to create more and more toons which I had never done before...and I actually played them!!! The lack of keeping their promise to not go 18 months between new Ops was what I was referring to...but even that would have been better than our 2-1/2 year drought.

Edited March 16, 2017 by TUXs

[Kirtastropohe]

Apathy pretty much describes the state of things right now. We're past the immense rage of 5.0 and the idiotic system they came up with. Those who reached their limit left, and those who love the game too much or feel too invested to have moved on are still here. That being said, for those that have stayed, it doesn't seem that there is much enthusiasm. Pub side activity is especially down on my server, and the enthusiasm of the members of my guild who still play is barely measurable.

 

Why the devs didn't listen to the pre-release warnings and feedback about 5.0, I'll never know. They self-inflicted some very large wounds. I'm glad reality finally hit the Devs in the face and that they have been reworking things so that the system will actually be in a good place with 5.2. Well, it will be in a good place provided they add the two changes being requested very loudly by the community (HINT: BW...listen before the launch of 5.2 this time), In addition to what they've already announced, they need to: #1 change things so that the first tier of gear can be bought solely with command tokens and #2 make unassembled components legacy wide.

 

It's my sincere hope that they do these things and when you couple them with the already announced 5.2 changes, the state of the game will be in a pretty good place. Hopefully, enough people will give the game another chance so that we can get back on the road to recovery.

[GalacticKegger]

Well Stale for me, before I left EQ I had like 987 In game days played... Wow was a close second to that time. The rest really didn't hold much interest. When you lived since Pong Gave birth to PinBall... I suppose a game would literally have to be something so extraordinary that it could hold attention to my interests longer than 5 years. For all you younglings you guy's have all the cool stuff! Way more fun!! This game is one of the very few theme park games that keep me gaming.

 

Welcome to the old farts club mate! My roots go back to APBA sports and Avalon Hill WW2 tabletop strategy games in the 60s. D&D in the early 70s is what got me into fantasy gaming, and the 2600 is what got me into home video gaming. I too rocked Pong and air hockey in the arcades.

 

Having grown up with the Lord of the Rings and Star Trek IPs, neither sword & board fantasy nor science fiction got old for me in any way, shape or form. So MMO-wise the trip down the UO & EQ routes that eventually led to WoW, GW, DDO, LOTRO and Rift never really grew stale. Similarly, the MMO trip down the Earth & Beyond, SWG and Eve path that eventually led to STO and SWTOR never really grew stale for me either.

 

I have wall-sized libraries packed with books and DVD/Blu-rays that will attest to my affinity for revisiting old content if it's endearing enough. Which is the thing. To effectively revisit old content it all still has to be there in its original endearing format and context. I don't want content uprooted and moved to other chapters. And I definitely don't want how I read a book, or watch a movie, or play a video game throttled back in any way. If a publisher wants to do that to a book, movie or game then they release a revised edition with the new stuff added... not replace the original.

 

For me, choice as to how we want to revisit old content is what keeps old content from growing stale. Old faithful will continue to grow old, but it will never truly grow stale until it is no longer faithful. The other traditional MMOs that I still play with regularity (WoW, LOTRO, Rift, STO and Wildstar) all allow us to revisit old content in its original state so we can replay it in its original state. (WoW xmog runs ftw!) Any changes to them like level sync or bolstering are added so as to not upset the original game ... or its players.

 

Seems Bioware is the only MMO developer who didn't learn from SWG's NGE debacle - because they replicated it to near perfection. Thanks to the game's "old faithful" publicly rebelling in December BWA's decision makers are only just starting to recognize it, but are giving the impression that they are in too deep to do anything but milk the Cartel Market in preparation for golden parachute deployments. The Star Wars IP is about the only thing saving this game now.

 

Before SWTOR ... before STO ... before Eve Online ... before SWG ... even before WoW ... there was Earth & Beyond. The Sci-Fi MMO half of me was all over Earth & Beyond (I still occasionally revisit the emu). But alas what EA did to that game and its developer Westwood Studios within 2 years after they bought them out is not unlike what they are doing to SWTOR and Bioware. In E&B's case EA withered both game and developer to the point of shutting the game down, and then re-assigned what was left of Westwood to do mobile apps.

 

This EA being EA déjà vu all over again thing is what is really getting stale.

Edited March 16, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Quraswren]

It is stale and lifeless. After weeks of nothing new, being Alt unfriendly and adding grind.... people have drifted away.

 

If you're strictly story, solo or PvE then there's never enough to keep you occupied.

If you also or only do PvP and/or GSF, the lack of development is obvious.

 

There isn't much on the horizon to look forward to, and taking 5 months or so just to fine-tune galactic command shows how out of touch the studio is. - And pitting out 20- minutes of expensive cutscenes connected with a story every 6 months isn't gonna set the world on fire.

 

It needs a big injection of time, love and vision. The current path is a death of many cuts and cutbacks. Things like direct sales are great for a quick cash-boost to pad the bottom line, but without investing in content, the game is just slowly circling the drain.

 

I think that is one of the better descriptions of swtor and the poor state it's in.

[TUXs]

It is stale and lifeless. After weeks of nothing new, being Alt unfriendly and adding grind.... people have drifted away. If you're strictly story, solo or PvE then there's never enough to keep you occupied.

If you also or only do PvP and/or GSF, the lack of development is obvious.

 

There isn't much on the horizon to look forward to, and taking 5 months or so just to fine-tune galactic command shows how out of touch the studio is. - And pitting out 20- minutes of expensive cutscenes connected with a story every 6 months isn't gonna set the world on fire.

 

It needs a big injection of time, love and vision. The current path is a death of many cuts and cutbacks. Things like direct sales are great for a quick cash-boost to pad the bottom line, but without investing in content, the game is just slowly circling the drain.

Very well said...sadly...

[BJWyler]

Welcome to the old farts club mate! My roots go back to APBA sports and Avalon Hill WW2 tabletop strategy games in the 60s. D&D in the early 70s is what got me into fantasy gaming, and the 2600 is what got me into home video gaming. I too rocked Pong and air hockey in the arcades.

 

Having grown up with the Lord of the Rings and Star Trek IPs, neither sword & board fantasy nor science fiction got old for me in any way, shape or form. So MMO-wise the trip down the UO & EQ routes that eventually led to WoW, GW, DDO, LOTRO and Rift never really grew stale. Similarly, the MMO trip down the Earth & Beyond, SWG and Eve path that eventually led to STO and SWTOR never really grew stale for me either.

 

I have wall-sized libraries packed with books and DVD/Blu-rays that will attest to my affinity for revisiting old content if it's endearing enough. Which is the thing. To effectively revisit old content it all still has to be there in its original endearing format and context. I don't want content uprooted and moved to other chapters. And I definitely don't want how I read a book, or watch a movie, or play a video game throttled back in any way. If a publisher wants to do that to a book, movie or game then they release a revised edition with the new stuff added... not replace the original.

 

For me, choice as to how we want to revisit old content is what keeps old content from growing stale. Old faithful will continue to grow old, but it will never truly grow stale until it is no longer faithful. The other traditional MMOs that I still play with regularity (WoW, LOTRO, Rift, STO and Wildstar) all allow us to revisit old content in its original state so we can replay it in its original state. (WoW xmog runs ftw!) Any changes to them like level sync or bolstering are added so as to not upset the original game ... or its players.

 

Seems Bioware is the only MMO developer who didn't learn from SWG's NGE debacle - because they replicated it to near perfection. Thanks to the game's "old faithful" publicly rebelling in December BWA's decision makers are only just starting to recognize it, but are giving the impression that they are in too deep to do anything but milk the Cartel Market in preparation for golden parachute deployments. The Star Wars IP is about the only thing saving this game now.

 

Before SWTOR ... before STO ... before Eve Online ... before SWG ... even before WoW ... there was Earth & Beyond. The Sci-Fi MMO half of me was all over Earth & Beyond (I still occasionally revisit the emu). But alas what EA did to that game and its developer Westwood Studios within 2 years after they bought them out is not unlike what they are doing to SWTOR and Bioware. In E&B's case EA withered both game and developer to the point of shutting the game down, and then re-assigned what was left of Westwood to do mobile apps.

 

This EA being EA déjà vu all over again thing is what is really getting stale.

 

Are you my Clone?

Edited March 16, 2017 by BJWyler

[AscendingSky]

Very well said...sadly...

 

I agree. Imagine if they'd spent the millions they laid out for that Blur trailer on actual game content, huh? To pay for developer time and art creation and fixing bugs and all the stuff we actually wanted rather than a few minutes of watching Keeping Up With The Valkorions? How awesome would that have been? And it would have done a lot to keep sub numbers up. But instead EAWare seem bound and determined to spend money and time and effort on anything BUT gameplay content for SWTOR. It's tragic.

 

As others have said, the Star Wars IP is probably the only reason most people are still with this game at this point, after all the boneheaded mismanagement under Ben Irving's direction. You'd think making a Star Wars game easily profitable would be a no-brainer, and that it wouldn't be hard to come up with new content with that whole universe of backstory to pull from... but Ben Irving and the EA purse-string holders would beg to differ, it seems.

Edited March 17, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Jagaimee]

What would happen if Mass Effect: Andromeda tanked? Would BioWare then rededicate a lot of staff to working on this game, to make up for the lost revenue? Pouring in resources for Operations, warzones, flashpoints (oh heck, at this point, I wouldn't mind an expansion dedicated solely to content like that*)... more players, more subs, more money.

At this point, I'm almost hoping Andromeda doesn't do very well, solely for the above purpose. (Cue people saying "That's not how a business works, Jagaimee." Okay, okay, can I keep my idealism? )

 

Anyway. About the game feeling "lifeless" - eh... nah. Not to me, but then again I don't do many group activities. Heck, I'm too shy to even roleplay with others. It is nice, however, to go on the fleet at 10:30 Pacific time and see at least 70 people still milling about - on an east coast server. So... I guess the definition of "lifeless" depends on the person?

(Edit: ...make that at least 110 people, with more on another instance. On an east coast server, so...past 1:30 in the morning. On a weekend night. That's encouraging.)

 

*I don't even do warzones or Operations, and veeeeeeeeeeery rarely do flashpoints - but come on; those need love, too. I'm here primarily for the story, but why should one group of people (those here for the story, like me), get ALL the new content and those here for something else - raiding, PVP, etc. - get nothing? Doesn't make sense.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Jagaimee

[CKNORTH]

Welcome to the old farts club mate! My roots go back to APBA sports and Avalon Hill WW2 tabletop strategy games in the 60s. D&D in the early 70s is what got me into fantasy gaming, and the 2600 is what got me into home video gaming. I too rocked Pong and air hockey in the arcades.

 

Having grown up with the Lord of the Rings and Star Trek IPs, neither sword & board fantasy nor science fiction got old for me in any way, shape or form. So MMO-wise the trip down the UO & EQ routes that eventually led to WoW, GW, DDO, LOTRO and Rift never really grew stale. Similarly, the MMO trip down the Earth & Beyond, SWG and Eve path that eventually led to STO and SWTOR never really grew stale for me either.

 

I have wall-sized libraries packed with books and DVD/Blu-rays that will attest to my affinity for revisiting old content if it's endearing enough. Which is the thing. To effectively revisit old content it all still has to be there in its original endearing format and context. I don't want content uprooted and moved to other chapters. And I definitely don't want how I read a book, or watch a movie, or play a video game throttled back in any way. If a publisher wants to do that to a book, movie or game then they release a revised edition with the new stuff added... not replace the original.

 

For me, choice as to how we want to revisit old content is what keeps old content from growing stale. Old faithful will continue to grow old, but it will never truly grow stale until it is no longer faithful. The other traditional MMOs that I still play with regularity (WoW, LOTRO, Rift, STO and Wildstar) all allow us to revisit old content in its original state so we can replay it in its original state. (WoW xmog runs ftw!) Any changes to them like level sync or bolstering are added so as to not upset the original game ... or its players.

 

Seems Bioware is the only MMO developer who didn't learn from SWG's NGE debacle - because they replicated it to near perfection. Thanks to the game's "old faithful" publicly rebelling in December BWA's decision makers are only just starting to recognize it, but are giving the impression that they are in too deep to do anything but milk the Cartel Market in preparation for golden parachute deployments. The Star Wars IP is about the only thing saving this game now.

 

Before SWTOR ... before STO ... before Eve Online ... before SWG ... even before WoW ... there was Earth & Beyond. The Sci-Fi MMO half of me was all over Earth & Beyond (I still occasionally revisit the emu). But alas what EA did to that game and its developer Westwood Studios within 2 years after they bought them out is not unlike what they are doing to SWTOR and Bioware. In E&B's case EA withered both game and developer to the point of shutting the game down, and then re-assigned what was left of Westwood to do mobile apps.

 

This EA being EA déjà vu all over again thing is what is really getting stale.

 

I agree with you 100% I was pretty PO'd when they changed the Belsavis, Ilum dailies. I had a a lot of great memories doing them. Then they got trashed to the weeklies. Still slightly bitter lol. For the most part some games are intact in its entirety from original state other than QoL changes. Wow is great from BC to Pandaria. Legion is growing on me. We won't talk about WoD. LOTRO is full of great Quests and zones all still exactly as they were on release for the most part. EQ the ol tug boat is getting well old but the grinding skills which I loath is still a big part of that game.

 

But SWTOR revamp things out of whim. Which pisses me off that they destroy a working part of the game such as the old dialies. And don't fix the damn glitches. Seriously ***. Anyhow been playing WoW for a month and really been having fun. Although rumour is they are talking level scaling... Ugh. But if that is how they want to run WoW not much people can do about it at least old group content will be group content again Lol!!

[Icykill_]

I just posted this in a Thread where someone was asking about the most active server to choose. I'm requoting it here because I think it's pertinent to this subject.

Harbinger is the most active server in the game, but is located on the west coast. So if playing on the west coast is an issue, I've heard Shadowlands and Ebon Hawk seem like a good option.

 

But even Harbinger is turning more and more into a ghost town at certain time. Unless you play with in a specific time bracket, which is also getting smaller, the population drops fast outside of those times.

 

It also depends on the content. ie if you want to play pvp in lowbies and mids, the time bracket is very small. Lvl 70 has better pops for a longer period of time, but I've waited 4 hours for a lvl 70 pop just outside of Australian prime time. It could have been even longer, but I logged off in discussed

Last weekend my partner waited 6 hours for a lowbies match, that was from 5pm Australia eastern time. In the end she logged off.

Yesterday at 10pm AEST there was one instance and only 60 people on the "imperial" fleet. That is what I expect on the republic side at prime time, not the Imperial side.

Sure those times aren't US prime time, but let's be honest, this is supposed to be a globally playable game. If you were to go back just 6 months there was 2 instances at that AEST time. One full (about 170) and another half full. Go back 12 months and it was two - three full instances.

Every since 5.0 was launch the game has had a more excessive and accelerated player loss then any other time in the games history. The Devs seem to have their heads in the sand over this.

I've never been one of those people predicting the closure of this game, I've heard it all since launch. But at this rate of player loss, how much longer can the game support itself if the player exodus isn't quelled fast. Even then, they need to attract those who have left to come come back to the game or attract new players. Bioware dont have a good recorded of this and even if players increase, they have an even worse recorded of retaining them.

 

With the current decline in population, even group content for me (pvp) is getting harder to play at times that I never used to have a problem with. I've now found the best times for me to play the game to pvp are 3am AEST - 9am AEST. During that bracket the game actually seems healthy. But how many people are able to play at those times? Sure there are a few other very small brackets of time that you can get lvl 70 pvp regularly for a longer period. But I've lost 50 dedicated pvp friends since this time last year from my old guild. Most were NA based and would even play regularly from 6-7pm AEST till 11pm AEST.

I know I'm not in US prime time and I know all the arguments about how fast group content is available at those times. But when you go from about 340 people on the imperial fleet in my prime time, with about 30-50 of them pvping (in all brackets) to 60 people total on the fleet and about 4-6 pvping "only" at lvl 70, there is definitely a problem.

Of course there are people doing the story and on other planets at moment, but the fleet is where most of the pvpers hang out and lots of pve people are pvping to trying to farm CXP and stuff because it's easy. They are unlikely to want to jump into a pvp match while halfway through a FP or OP, so they are also hanging on the fleet. Even story only people are wanting to do this, so I can only imaging how frustrating it would be on low population/quiet servers that never have pvp pops.

This population decline has happened so fast and accelerated with 5.0, that unless they lay a proverbial golden egg or pull bugs bunny out of a hat, then I can't see the game lasting past this time next year.

When the health of the most active server in the game is this terrible, it's a massive warning sign of what's to come. I get the impression from lots of old time subscribers that they feel the same way.