100 new Galactic Command levels and exciting new gear rewards, on the way!

[Vember]

OK someone really needs to explain the raging to me. And I mean it in a genuine way. I've recently returned to the game and haven't played since early days of RotHC... Anyway, got my sniper to 70 and started gearing. For now mostly PvP for components and solo content for the RNG boxes. And I'm really missing the issue with the system. I mean I've always expected a gear grind in MMOs since the early days of WoW (only got as far as Lich King with it) and this is more of the same... Do high end PvP and PvE content for the best great... And getting whole sets has always required a grind of some sorry...The RNG boxes are just a bonus as I see it.

 

Now, the numbers might need adjusting to make it slightly easier to get the best gear but personally I always thought that top of the line gear should be a challenge to get. And I don't think expecting to gear all your toons quickly is reasonable... I dunno, for me there's a reason Ive had a "main" and x nr. of "alts" in any game. I expect and put the effort into gearing my main first and foremost and don't expect my alts to all be on par with my main... Maybe it's just me... What am I missing here?

 

Everyone was spoiled by the loot pinata that was 4.0.

[Sargrith]

Crates/GTN can get you consistent 240 gear which is sufficient NiM-level gear. BiS isn't as important for PvE as it is for PvP.

 

I agree operation drop rates could use a buff though.

 

 

Its not just the drop rate but the ability to get higher teir gear. Right now if I advice my guild I would be a fool not to push them toward PvP and....ew GSF. OPs will not get them were they want to be, not nearly as fast as PvP will. UnRanked PvP is like SM ops. Yet doing UnRanked even poorly you will get BiS, you can do SM Ops or even HM OPs and never see BiS. And 240 gear that you can make from crates alone wont help much. Sure relics, implants and ears are fine but no mods, armorings, hilts, or enchants....so that means NiM ops. The purple 240 armor you can craft is at best poor and really tends to be equal to the blues 240 gear you will be getting anyway from the crates. So that doesn't really count as a fill in.

 

I can't argue against needing BiS means more to PvP then PvE, but the level of risk reward is absurdly lopsided. It is far harder to beat a HM TFB then loose at PvP 10 times but those 10 losses are more valuable then completing the TFB. Those 5 losses guarantee you steps toward better gear, even beating HM TFB guarantees nothing of the sort. You will get a chance to get a roll on 236 gear, two pieces on the final boss, that is the only guarantee you get. I fully admit that HM EV and KP aren't that hard, they should be a walk in the park but even they are more challenging and with less rewards then loosing 5 PvP matches.

 

Its a broken system, terribly broken and they just keep lying to us and I am very tired of that more than anything. There can be no doubt they aren't listening, I mean even their most ardent supporters can only deny that for so long, this addition 100 levels make the argument about them listening crystal clear. They aren't and never have. I still don't see them keeping things going without a change in lead, I think the current guy has gone his course and found himself unable to meet the challenges, time for him to step aside for the good of the game.

[Khaleijo]

so basically what you're telling me is that all this stems from casuals wanting to be on par gear wise with the hard core raiders/PvP-ers?! ... well thats just silly. If we're arguing that they should increase the drop rate from raid bossess (to what degree is still up for debate) and also incrase the rate at which a player gets components (which they are doing in the next update i believe) then yeah, i agree. The boxes are still just a bonus on top of that is what im saying... and personally i dont have a problem with them... i would prefer if they would make it so you dont get duplicates and maybe slightly adjust the drop rates for top items but again that is a balancing act in itself. It should NOT be easy to gear a toon in top of the line gear... much less so all of your alts. Seems people have been spoilt due to other iterations of the game making it too easy...

 

You are missing that this game had a fairly straight foward gearing system for the last few years (since the change of bound rnd loot and the rnd PVP crates, that were changed back in 1.x for a reason).

This game never had that heavy gear grind other MMOs had, and players loved it because that. That they could easily change to an alt and join in the same activities they do with their main very fast.

Reroll to another class, alternating between different roles, for examples in raid groups was easy, and made the whole organising of raids a lot more flexible, than it is now because anyone who like to tank or heal or dps occasionally, when needed could get the required gear very easy, not meant in the way just handed to them (at least before 4.0 highlighted ops) but in the way i need to kill these bosses to get my missing pieces.

 

PVE

You needed an earpiece token, kill boss XY, for relic kill that one, for a MH the other. Groups were able to plan their gearing effort and whenever a new player joined the group, there was an equally straight forward way to help him get to the others gear level fast. Before the stupid highlighted HM of the week system in 4.0, everything was fine, SM ops to get SM gear, HM to get HM and NIM to earn the best level gear.

Highlighted HC giving NIM gear especially the easiest OPS, EV and KP botched the whole system, especially when at release of 4.0 NIM OPS didn't even give NIM gear at all.

What did players do? Farming EV and EK until their eyes bled, ignoring most of the other way more interesting and challenging OPS. Just as they are now farming Chapter 2. Not because it is fun, but because BW crashed the gear progression. If there are easy ways to get something most players will go down that route, that is a sad fact BW should know by now.

And there was no new content for raiding, in my opinion also no new good small group content (star fortresses and uprisings are a poor joke compared to the gems of the old classic FPs) for several years. What was there, was rehashed twice or with some OPS even three times now.

So literally a group that progressed trough NIM bosses, just a week befor 5.0 hit or Revan, was thrown back a hell of a grind for weeks or months, that each player had to do for himself back then, to just get back do the same thing they just did.

People who were able to raid NIM with casually time investment like twice a week with a few hours effort, now faced this grind of thousands of hours to spend with other things than their favourite ingame activity to just get back to where they were.

SWTOR never was as time consuming as WOW or other MMOs are. You could invest the time if you wanted, but it wasn't needed until now. (WOW doesn't scale raids to the new levels, if you want you can just finish what you were doing before an expansion and then heading to new content.)

Still wondering why these people don't like GC?

 

PVP, what we had before

You want to do PVP, you grind WZ comms to buy 1tier gear then upgrade it with more wz comms or ranked comms. Before bolster was introduced players got even a starter gear set for free to ease the gear disparity for new players reaching max level. In 4.0 the rate of comms was high enough that players enjoying PVP were able to earn the 1.tier gear with one or two weeks concentrated effort, or even while still leveling to just jump into maxlevel PVP the moment they reach it. As a whole making WZ finally more about skill than gear, with none or almost none existing entrace barrier for anyone wanting to try it out for the first time.

 

A lot of the rage against GC stems from its form at the release of 5.0, the recent additions with these components and boss token ease it a bit, but is in no where near to the system we had before. An easy straight forward system where you earned the gear by playing what you enjoyed. Now half my raiding group feels forced to play PVP, they don't really like it, but do it because it is the fast and most planable way to upgrade their gear. Get token from Ops and upgrade them with PVP components.

 

In addition this new system is quite complicated, you got to trade in the boss token to get the item, to go to trade in the item + components to get a token, to go to trade in the new item token + command token to get your new piece of gear. When before you either just had the comms to buy a piece directly or went to the trader for your pve tier boss token and get the item directly with out running back and forth or keeping gear tokens in you inventory until you have enough components or tokens to trade them in.

Veterans and new players alike are confused about where to go what to trade in to get gear, based on how often questions about this are on fleet chat.

 

GC would be a great idea if it was on top of the 3.0 PVE and the 4.0 PVP gearing system. Than it would great for the casual solo players, with a nice fluff candy for those involved in group activities. But once again Bioware managed to implement a good idea on paper the worst way possible. Then additionally having to spend time and ressources to fix things back to an acceptable pace, instead of use them for new content.

Merely thinking about how many hours went and are going into this system, instead of new planets, daily areas, FPs, maps or OPS just makes me both dissapointed and angry.

[Halinalle]

My issues with the current system.

1 - Flashpoint bosses don't drop gear at level 70... even if it's just blue 220 (and purple 228 for bonus bosses and final bosses) an actual gear drop on top of the exotic crafting material and CXP token would feel more rewarding to me (and help offset the repair costs when people keep doing stupid things and getting us all killed over and over in Maelstrom Prison ).

 

Just because you can't or don't know how to craft doesn't mean crafting should be useless like it was for short period after 4.0 launched.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Halinalle

[TUXs]

Everyone was spoiled by the loot pinata that was 4.0.

Everyone enjoyed it, we weren't spoiled by it. I was able to gear toons I never played, and play toons I never thought I would because of 4.0.

 

Gear isn't the "end game" for players, gear simply allows end game content to be played.

[Halinalle]

Everyone enjoyed it, we weren't spoiled by it. I was able to gear toons I never played, and play toons I never thought I would because of 4.0.

 

Gear isn't the "end game" for players, gear simply allows end game content to be played.

 

"50k hp for SM EV" (3.x)

"8k dps for SM DP" (5.x)

Yeah, we all know about it.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Halinalle

[PlasmaJohn]

 

 

Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. ... [imdb]

 

[Quraswren]

Everyone was spoiled by the loot pinata that was 4.0.

 

I'll take spoiled gamers that are having a good time playing and gearing multiple ALTs vs the garbage 5.0 brought but thats probably for a different post. I know gamers quit because of no content but none because I got so much gear.

 

SO.... as far as what we got, 4.0 should have been adjusted instead of removed and replaced with the travesty of GC and RNG crates along with all the rest of 5.0

 

There was a much better way to do gearing at end game in 5.0 and what bw did was not it. There could have been a middle ground but its clear bw was never looking for that. Just how could they screw over gamers play time with a RNG crates system that you lose more than you ever win.

 

It's a disappointment.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Quraswren

[Edyn]

When BW asked the players for their feedback on how to adjust the GC system, who in the galaxy responded with, "Moar Command Levels!"? I am very curious as to where exactly BW gets their "player feedback" and who at BW keeps listening to them? They are almost certainly not receiving feedback from any active players who communicates in any public venues, as I think I would have caught "Moar Command Levels!" by now amidst all the, "GC is absolute garbage, revert to pre-5.0" conversations and collaborations.

 

My guess is the same players who said that more Command Levels is the right answer at this point in time are the same players who thought the pre-GC system in place was too complicated to begin with. That, or BW has and is actually taking zero player feedback while implying that they are as they roll full steam ahead with their Galactic Command abomination.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Edyn

[Eli_Porter]

Everyone enjoyed it, we weren't spoiled by it. I was able to gear toons I never played, and play toons I never thought I would because of 4.0.

 

Gear isn't the "end game" for players, gear simply allows end game content to be played.

 

This is true, but keep in mind 5.x made gearing your alts easier in other ways to make up for it (for PvE anyway). You can craft and pass down mods/gear from your main with much more relative ease to that of 4.x.

[Quraswren]

When BW asked the players for their feedback on how to adjust the GC system, who in the galaxy responded with, "Moar Command Levels!"? I am very curious as to where exactly BW gets their "player feedback" and who at BW keeps listening to them? They are almost certainly not receiving feedback any active players who communicates in any public venues, as I think I would have caught "Moar Command Levels!" by now amidst all the, "GC is absolute garbage, revert to pre-5.0" conversations and collaborations.

 

My guess is the same players who said that more Command Levels is the right answer at this point in time are the same players who thought the pre-GC system in place was too complicated to begin with. That, or BW has and is actually taking zero player feedback while implying that they are as they roll full steam ahead with their Galactic Command abomination.

 

I think it's proof enough bw does listen they really just don't care what is said to them. The idea that they had gamers best intentions is now painfully apparent it wasn't.

 

100 new level to grind so you can watch all that game time go down the drain as you get worthless garbage to disintegrate. There is your swtor excitement. (Only if you are somehow off your rocket)

[Eli_Porter]

100 new level to grind so you can watch all that game time go down the drain as you get worthless garbage to disintegrate. There is your swtor excitement. (Only if you are somehow off your rocket)

 

Disintegrating T4 mods/schematics means you're not gearing your alts properly. Unless it's tank gear because who has lots of tank alts?

Edited February 27, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[TUXs]

This is true, but keep in mind 5.x made gearing your alts easier in other ways to make up for it (for PvE anyway). You can craft and pass down mods/gear from your main with much more relative ease to that of 4.x.

Poorly gearing alts isn't a 'fix'. The decline in players speaks for itself. This system sucks and defending it in any way is absurd imo.

[Quraswren]

Disintegrating T4 mods/schematics means you're not gearing your alts properly. Unless it's tank gear because who has lots of tank alts?

 

Until I'm max level or fully geared I see no reason to play an ALT. Might as well disintegrate the gear to get another crate sooner given how spending any time of alts is a waste of time in my eyes till I reach one or both of those goals.

 

What a waste of time that would be dividing out that CXP to other ALTs missing my main getting the higher Tiers. Made even worse now that 100 new levels have been added. All my alts are nothing more than mission runners now. Logged on and logged off of ASAP to get missions running and then back to the main.

[casirabit]

Ever consider they are doing this because a lot of people are trying to rush to get to 300? Why not just take your time and do what you like and not worry about your command rank. My main is command rank 24 because unlike a lot of people I play all my characters and don't worry about their rank. Most of them are already in purple 228 since I can make them and some of them are in a few pieces of 230 since I have the schematics for them.

 

I am going to enjoy playing like I have before and when I get to the rank, I get there but not going to stop playing the way I like to and ignoring the rest of my characters.

 

Maybe its me.

[TUXs]

Ever consider they are doing this because a lot of people are trying to rush to get to 300? Why not just take your time and do what you like and not worry about your command rank.

Because I like to PvP and fighting people with gear 10 levels above me puts me at an obvious disadvantage. I also like to help players in PuGs, where having good gear lets me help pick up the slack of more casual players, without having to call anyone out for not doing what they need to do.

[Eli_Porter]

Until I'm max level or fully geared I see no reason to play an ALT. Might as well disintegrate the gear to get another crate sooner given how spending any time of alts is a waste of time in my eyes till I reach one or both of those goals.

 

What a waste of time that would be dividing out that CXP to other ALTs missing my main getting the higher Tiers. Made even worse now that 100 new levels have been added. All my alts are nothing more than mission runners now. Logged on and logged off of ASAP to get missions running and then back to the main.

 

You can use alts to avoid operation lockouts and get weekly/daily rewards which are getting buffed tomorrow. There's also a strong indication that they'll make unassembled components legacy in the future, which would make pvp with alts a very good way to gear your main.

[Quraswren]

Ever consider they are doing this because a lot of people are trying to rush to get to 300? Why not just take your time and do what you like and not worry about your command rank. My main is command rank 24 because unlike a lot of people I play all my characters and don't worry about their rank. Most of them are already in purple 228 since I can make them and some of them are in a few pieces of 230 since I have the schematics for them.

 

I am going to enjoy playing like I have before and when I get to the rank, I get there but not going to stop playing the way I like to and ignoring the rest of my characters.

 

Maybe its me.

 

I think that works for a rare few because most of the content we have is extremely old. Enjoyment probably no longer comes from running 2-5 year old content so much as it does the rewards you get or simply playing with friends. I'd wager the content is quite stale for most of the SWTOR gamers by now. Not everyone but most.

 

What little new content we did get is so shallow it barely worth repeating. Combine that with how CXP turned the game into "what can you do to get the most CXP for your in game time" and well your idea starts to fall apart for many. A least that how I see it. I don't doubt some do things at a snails pace but I don't think many follow that route.

 

You can use alts to avoid operation lockouts and get weekly/daily rewards which are getting buffed tomorrow. There's also a strong indication that they'll make unassembled components legacy in the future, which would make pvp with alts a very good way to gear your main.

 

Sure you can and all that takes time away from my main. Takes CXP away from my main. Takes the RNG gear chance away from my main and put it in a lower tier.

 

Any division of CXP that is taken away from my main to me is a waste of what game time I do have. So while you can skip a lock out with an ALT. I'd simply run PVP or right now run chapter 2 over and over for fast, easy CXP and way more for the game time than any other content could ever give.

 

Dividing my CXP into other ALTs is a waste when my main is not geared and not max level. That problem is compounded now that I know 100 more CXP levels are being added on.

 

Without legacy wide GC levels. I see no good reason to really touch ALTS unless you just like them. Knowing any time not on my main is wasted given the lower tiers and lack of CXP on the main. ALTs are fairly dead to me.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Quraswren

[Vember]

I'll take spoiled gamers that are having a good time playing and gearing multiple ALTs vs the garbage 5.0 brought but thats probably for a different post. I know gamers quit because of no content but none because I got so much gear.

 

SO.... as far as what we got, 4.0 should have been adjusted instead of removed and replaced with the travesty of GC and RNG crates along with all the rest of 5.0

 

There was a much better way to do gearing at end game in 5.0 and what bw did was not it. There could have been a middle ground but its clear bw was never looking for that. Just how could they screw over gamers play time with a RNG crates system that you lose more than you ever win.

 

It's a disappointment.

 

I agree about the alts, so they need to adjust GC for legacy in some way, but I much prefer this system, personally. I'm gearing up through GSF, that's pretty awesome in my book. No more expertise, no more multiple gear sets - awesome as far as I'm concerned. The loot tables in the crates need to be fixed, but aside from that I much prefer this system to 4.0.

[Eli_Porter]

Poorly gearing alts isn't a 'fix'. The decline in players speaks for itself. This system sucks and defending it in any way is absurd imo.

 

I find it way easier to gear my alts for PvE now than in 4.x. Then again I wasn't heavily into Operations.

[Ratajack]

Poorly gearing alts isn't a 'fix'. The decline in players speaks for itself. This system sucks and defending it in any way is absurd imo.

 

Did I miss a meme that stated that toons MUST be geared within a week and that anything less than BIS gear is garbage?

 

Those seem to be a common sentiments in all these threads about GC--"it takes too long to gear" and "I have <insert x amount here> of 242 set bonus gear. I've disintegrated all the other garbage I've gotten."

 

Now, I am not saying that the GC system is fine, nor am I "defending" it. It does need to be adjusted and I agree that adding another 100 levels and a new tier of gear is not the correct adjustment. It is not only not necessary, but it's a really bad move, IMO.

 

I think they do need to adjust the rate of CXP gains for all activities so that all activities are as close to the same rate of CXP gain as possible. Will it ever be perfect and exactly the same? No. There will always be someone who finds a way to gain more CXP with this activity or that activity, but the differences in the rate of gains for different activities should not be as drastic as they currently are.

 

I also think they need to adjust the loot tables and the drop rates. Do I think they need to give us "bad luck protection", "guaranteed drops" or "set bonus tokens instead of set bonus pieces", though? No.

 

The system is not perfect, and definitely needs more than a little improvement, IMO, but I do think the "easy mode, light speed, loot pinata gearing system" that was 4.0 is not the right answer, either.

[curulz]

Ever consider they are doing this because a lot of people are trying to rush to get to 300? Why not just take your time and do what you like and not worry about your command rank. My main is command rank 24 because unlike a lot of people I play all my characters and don't worry about their rank. Most of them are already in purple 228 since I can make them and some of them are in a few pieces of 230 since I have the schematics for them.

 

I am going to enjoy playing like I have before and when I get to the rank, I get there but not going to stop playing the way I like to and ignoring the rest of my characters.

 

Maybe its me.

 

Hm ops have certain dps and heal checks that are not easy to meet with lesser gear by majority of players. better gear may be a luxury for you, but for others it's nearly a requirement.

[DarthDymond]

Ever consider they are doing this because a lot of people are trying to rush to get to 300? Why not just take your time and do what you like and not worry about your command rank. My main is command rank 24 because unlike a lot of people I play all my characters and don't worry about their rank. Most of them are already in purple 228 since I can make them and some of them are in a few pieces of 230 since I have the schematics for them.

 

I am going to enjoy playing like I have before and when I get to the rank, I get there but not going to stop playing the way I like to and ignoring the rest of my characters.

 

Maybe its me.

This is my approach as well: playing what I want to play and getting a periodic "ooh, shiney" reward no matter what it is I'm doing - I treat the 'highlighted' GalCom activity as a "hey, have you tried this recently?" suggestion from the game that I sometimes take, and sometimes don't.

 

But that's my playstyle, and it's only one of many. For example, others get there enjoyment of the game from high-end PVP, and - taking them at their word - having the bestest-best-in-slot gear is apparently a barrier to entry for being competitive there. If that's the case then I think it's just as valid for these players to give the feedback that the 5.x system is hampering their enjoyment as it is for me to say "gearing is pretty superfluous to me so this system really doesn't bother me" or "yeah, RNG isn't great, but I can get gear doing anything now, so on balance I like it just fine."

[RobertFKennedyUS]

its 90cc to transfer to a more populated pvp server TRE and Harb

 

And zero cc to transfer to another game, which is also what people do.

[exfell]

Ever consider they are doing this because a lot of people are trying to rush to get to 300? Why not just take your time and do what you like and not worry about your command rank.

 

Because I can't do the things I like because I don't have the gear for it. Someone already commented about pvp; yes one can play it without gear but it's no fun when the playing field is not level. In addition my raid progression has been halted for ages because of not having gear, not that most of the group have quit now so there is that too.

 

Having to grind endlessly just to get back to where you already were is supremely frustrating. Adding 100 levels and new gear tier only makes it that much worse