Bioware Please Merge Servers

[TUXs]

So, you favor making it far easier for players to abuse the system.

 

For some reason, I am not surprised.

No...I'm in favor of players having the freedom to easily go where their type of action is.

[TUXs]

Way to twist his words

It's shocking how much he does that isn't it? I say specifically what I want, he ignores it and claims it to mean something drastically different, then uses that to attack me. I don't know why I feed his ridiculous need for attention.

[Savej]

It's shocking how much he does that isn't it? I say specifically what I want, he ignores it and claims it to mean something drastically different, then uses that to attack me. I don't know why I feed his ridiculous need for attention.

 

Textbook description of strawman trolling. I could expand further but not without using personal attacks.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Savej

[forestguard]

It's shocking how much he does that isn't it? I say specifically what I want, he ignores it and claims it to mean something drastically different, then uses that to attack me. I don't know why I feed his ridiculous need for attention.

 

I'm noticing. Sounds like modern political tactics.

 

But yeah, if transfers were to be free, should be free both ways. If playing the system is a concern, place a limit on how many transfers can be done at once..or to keep people from hopping back and forth in short succession, or and even better suggestion compared to those two that could be ironed out in discussion.

[Ratajack]

Way to twist his words

 

Maybe you should actually read the question asked.

 

So, do you favor free transfers for all, with the increased potential for abuse that free server transfers would provide?

Do you favor the minimal cost of the 90 CC transfers which at least provide some deterrent to abusing the transfer system while not being, in the words of some, "exorbitantly priced"?

 

Do you favor only free transfers from low pop to high pop servers, and if so, where do you draw the line as to what qualifies as low pop for free transfers?

 

The question specifically addressed the additional potential for abuse.

[kvandertulip]

I'm noticing. Sounds like modern political tactics.

 

But yeah, if transfers were to be free, should be free both ways. If playing the system is a concern, place a limit on how many transfers can be done at once..or to keep people from hopping back and forth in short succession, or and even better suggestion compared to those two that could be ironed out in discussion.

 

The only reason they would ever make transfers free is if they intended to close a particular server, and they wanted to give people the option to choose where their characters went ahead of the merger. In that situation transfers would only be free transfering off that particular server. Given recent desperate moves on the cartel market ($60 lightsabers), I doubt they would even make transfers free in that situation.

[DreadtechSavant]

No...I'm in favor of players having the freedom to easily go where their type of action is.

 

Really, If you are asking for mergers which you are. Then this is a lie. because you are asking for my freedom to play where I want away. So a bit of a contradiction there TUX.

 

As for free transfers, I don't object to it. Yes it could be abused, that in itself though could easily be fixed just by putting in a few extra restrictions on how often you can move a single character within a set time. Or just extend the one already there. As for it being free, well that be down to BW and if moving characters around cost them money. If it does well then it's if BW are willing to take the hit. If not then it just won't happen. Even if it does not cost them money it's still a business so under no obligation to offer it free. Be nice if they did all the same.

Edited March 9, 2017 by DreadtechSavant

[Ratajack]

Really, If you are asking for mergers which you are. Then this is a lie. because you are asking for my freedom to play where I want away. So a bit of a contradiction there TUX.

 

As for free transfers, I don't object to it. Yes it could be abused, that in itself though could easily be fixed just by putting in a few extra restrictions on how often you can move a single character within a set time. Or just extend the one already there. As for it being free, well that be down to BW and if moving characters around cost them money. If it does well then it's if BW are willing to take the hit. If not then it just won't happen. Even if it does not cost them money it's still a business so under no obligation to offer it free. Be nice if they did all the same.

 

Dropping the price to 90 CC was nice of BW, but you can see that was not enough for some.

[Icykill_]

 

I dont see any way BW could merge the servers in a reasonable way.

 

Let's have a look at reality, the conditions of the contract you signed with BW. BW allows you 390 character slots (if you dont believe me, log in and check the little earth under your charlist). Currently the amount of chars per server is 52 maximal with unlocks.

 

So if they merge three servers into one per region and language, they effective need to tripple the size of the database minimum. Why they need to tripple it? Well there are a lot of people who solved the "not fast enough que time" on their own by spreading themselves over more then one server by making new legacies or moving just one char and expanding from that point again. For some of you this might sounds strange, but the question is not if it's done, the question is how many have done it. Such players of course do not add a lot to the que times because they split their time and mainly play story in the RPG part of this game, but that is their choice. Those players are mostly invinsible, they dont sit on fleet. The fact will stand: There are players with those 390 chars just because those players see managing such an army as their challenge. Same as some of you see a kill death ratio of 10 to 1 as theirs. Such is the nature of a MMO, a lot of different players with different motivations playing next to each other but not necessary with each other.

 

But those players define now a complete new problem, in the opposite of the first mergers. You cant go along and taking stuff from playing/paying customers if you merge. By a merge the responsibility lies within the frontiers of the studio. A free char transfer doesn't have that problem, because decision and responsibility lies within the individual player.

 

In the first two mergers there were neither such enourmous amounts of char slots, not there were guild ships nor strongholds. The only problem were the names and the disbanding and reforming of guilds on the target server. A lot of guilds broke because the merge was badly handled from studio and players both. Guilds had all of sudden new leaders due enforced name changes. Not all members noticed fast enough that their trusted officer now had a new name, or even worse both member and officer had new names Some guilds got trolled by another guild from their original server took their name first. Vendettas always belong into MMORPGs too. It was a mess guys and gals. Just because you were lucky, you were not wading through renaming Ros. (Private Addon: All but two chars of my original 27 had to rename. Funny as I am I try till today to get one of those taken names back. Small Tought: The spreading over servers started with the Cathar species for some players, close to 3 years before. Because if you went over char limit due the merge, you could unlock only till char number 22. For me that would have meant delete six chars down to 21 to get then a Cathar, the image designer wasn't in game then. Another problem: the ties on the newer legacies/new guilds to other players are also grown over a long time, so a deletion of chars might be too painfull.)

 

Back to topic, we now have those "landlord" players with 156 chars, 15 strongholds, tripple the item amount for stronghold items (999 items per stack like it is now trippled, that's 2997 per item), we need the tripple size of the CM item storage (stuff you buy into CM, included to game with DvL event). That is that only, databank storage.

 

If we go for one server per region, the european servers needs to swallow 9 servers, so do we need the ninth size of the current database? We all have not the tinest idea how the iternal structure of TOR looks like and can just guess if it's even possible to handle. But we all know how aggressive some players react when you type something not in english on fleet chats. I dont think that is a good solution to get the different language servers on top of the problems we have on TRE already.

 

 

But that is not the end of the enourmous legacies and their problems. So what we do with the aquiered 15 strongholds in the extreme case? Do we just deleted those stuff or do we go with "Coruscant 1", "Coruscant 2" and "Coruscant 3"? As there are definitive cartel coins paid by some of those players (either unlocks or furniture) this is not a solution the devs would dare. So they would increase the amount of stronghold hooks so that all those cartel market stuff could fit in. Redesign the strongholds then so that they can carry more hooks? Let them rot with all their tons of items? Dont we all prefer new content or more players instead?

 

Also we have the problem with the guilds which are also spread over more then one server. You surely all know some of them yourself. Their membership is not often a 1 versus 1. On the lower pop servers there are those who want to do something more undisturbed at times like RP. Other players wanted RP in secure environment plus raids and went a PvE server additionally. New players joined there on the higher pop server. So to which size do we move the limit of guildmembership? Must we tripple that size too? What we do when such a guild has two or three complete outfitted guildships? Should they be allowed to keep all three? What do we do with the cartel market coins which flowed into those ships into the pockets of BW?

 

As much as I appreciate Iceykills try to get the RP crowd their needs, the proposed solution will sadly not work. The "Partycrashers" who find a kick in disturbing the RP community, will just enter the instance and do what they please. You can ignore their chat and emotions, but they stay visible on screen. Their behaviour stays visible and even if the RP players remain calm, a player who does push ups (harmless example) in the middle of their meeting or training event is interrupting. The RPers would need to leave that place and hope not to be found again. Try that when you made an event in the Korriban Sith Academy... You would need a strongly moderated instance just because some players can annoy and irritate others. On YouTube you see the videos they proudly present of their glorious deeds making life less enjoyable for RP players. Ratajack is here sadly right. I dont see a solution for the RP crowd should they be forced to move to Harbinger/Red Eclypse. I am afraid the most of them will leave, making the player count even lower. Here the snake bites its own tail then again. Less players, less money for development, less content, game over.

 

I have no answers and solutions for those "landlord" or "RP" problems because I know too few about the internal structure of this game. And even when I am far from 390 chars I dont want to see such players ignored just because the "merge now" players forget about them. The solution for the "We need faster ques" players is definitive not the best either. I can absolutly admit that. But let's face it, the studio was never prepared to merge, not in the first time nor now. The free char transfers might be the only way BW can go in the foreseeable future. But even when BW would say that, the players wouldn't stop coming here and demand a merge. So why should they even try to communicate if players use their fantasies instead of the word. BW never stated cross server would come nor that mergers are now imminent in 2017. This is either happening due very bad knowledge of the english language or too much beer.

 

 

Very well presented Pliskie. I didn't know about the 390 character limit or even those tools who make YouTube recordings of those who are trolling RP people 😡... I think you make other great points too that need to be considered.

 

It's obvious there is no simple solution and I didnt expect there to be and now adding another technical hurdle of so many characters, it would be something Bioware would need to have a positive solution for.

 

The population on the servers is still an issue even if there is no easy fix. It's something Bioware need to address in some way. I don't have a perfect answer either, but I think it's healthy to keep trying to help everyone in this discussion understand all of the issues and hurdles presented so far.

 

The main premise is that we have too many people spread to thinly across the game. That has lots of issues for the health of the game and there are no solutions that don't have problems.

 

I believe we need to start thinking out side of the box and and putting forward ideas even if they aren't polished. Then we can try and formulate them into better ideas. If they end up not ticking the boxes, we move onto the next one or see if can cannibalise the ideas to fit into another like a jigsaw.

 

While Bioware maybe trying to avoid this topic, they won't be able to for ever. Personally I think they are running scared because they've not planned ahead as usual. At some point they'll have one of their silly ideas that everyone will hate and will probably implode the game.

 

I can see some steps they can start to take on the path to addressing the problem. Maybe those steps will stem the problem a little until better solutions or compromise can be found.

 

A step they can impliment immediately is free transfers off select servers and to specific designated ones.

 

They could then plan and put in place the ability to transfer a whole legacy with all bells and whistles as a paid service for everyone as well as a free service off those select servers

 

Reinstate server designations and population activity on the server login screen so new people can make a more informed decision on what server to chose. Obviously do not designate any server as pvp because that would be pointless.

I would suggest these designations RP-Story and PVE.

 

Once that is In place we can wait and see and they can have a bit more time to work out a longer term solution. It will also better show them which servers can support a healthy population moving forward.

 

Also putting a player survey on the load screen for subscribers to tell them what their preferred play/content style is. This could only be filled in once so people would need to think hard about the answers. This would also allow them to plan content better so they don't just dump one load on some, but neglect others. A better spread per content drop would be better.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Merging server threads/posts are on the General section first page nearly every day and yet there is never a reply from the staff...........................

 

That is my biggest gripe about Bioware... they don't know how to man up and reply to decisive community concerns unless there is outright rage or people start unsubbing on mass.

[Icykill_]

I'm glad you asked...I favor free transfers for all. I don't care where you play or if you want to be alone or with others, all I care about is that you're happy while playing, no matter where that is.

 

That would be great, but only for subscribers. I think one or two free server transfers per month as part of your sub would allow people to socialise around the whole game. It would certainly reduce the need to roll so many alts on multiple servers

And before someone brings up 90cc transfers from your subscriber account argument, that is not free or what I am suggesting, so please, just please don't respond with such a rebuttal. This is something completely seperate and an addon to your sub. It would also add some value to it since they've taken away most of the sub benefits we used to get for free.

[Lunafox]

No...I'm in favor of players having the freedom to easily go where their type of action is.

 

I think the cheap transfers allow people to do just that. If a place isn't busy with their sort of action, they're free to go somewhere else where it is.

 

If Bioware put in free transfers, that wouldn't bother me for people who are subbed to the game, but I don't see it happening. I'm actually amazed that they're willing to do 90cc transfers, cause that's plenty reasonable.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Lunafox

[Icykill_]

It's shocking how much he does that isn't it? I say specifically what I want, he ignores it and claims it to mean something drastically different, then uses that to attack me. I don't know why I feed his ridiculous need for attention.

 

It's why I got fed up with him and used ignore. It didn't matter how positive my point was, even if it supported his, he would still do that.

He really isn't a nice person at all and I think he may just be doing it to either derail the topic or to troll.

[Savej]

It's why I got fed up with him and used ignore. It didn't matter how positive my point was, even if it supported his, he would still do that.

He really isn't a nice person at all and I think he may just be doing it to either derail the topic or to troll.

 

On the plus side he keeps these topics on the front page more than any other poster.

[RarePorcupine]

I think 90CC transfers will be Bioware's solution to the problem for the foreseeable future. It avoids the technical/other issues associated with merging servers (i.e. character names) and avoids the bad PR of shutting down servers when so few remain (especially given the relatively negative perception of the game in general). In reality it's probably a little pointless since anyone who asks which server to go to will end up being pointed to the same ones that are already populated, but I don't think that's going to change.

[Icykill_]

On the plus side he keeps these topics on the front page more than any other poster.

 

Always good to do that 😉

[cagthehack]

BW will never merge servers. Doing so would admit that the game is losing players. Some of the light populated servers have been so for years.

 

Your best bet is to move on your own.

[BJWyler]

Wait. I don't quite understand your post.

 

To clarify, ample time to transfer. A merger is a fancy word for free character transfer. My guild reformed on Harb. They had a ship. Credits are easy to come by these days. Get your guild pumped and tell them to meet you on the other side. (Cue Adele) haha

 

Exactly, yet many people who are against mergers use the reasoning of losing everything that someone who can transfer will lose. So to say that a transfer is an option, it really isn't if you have investments in things that BioWare has not yet fixed in either process.

 

If it is so easy to rebuild, then mergers aren't a problem on that front either.

 

BW will never merge servers. Doing so would admit that the game is losing players. Some of the light populated servers have been so for years.

 

Your best bet is to move on your own.

 

They have already merged servers in the past. They have gone from a sub based game to one that is primarily free to play, though they are making every effort to minimize that switch. The cat has long been out of the bag. BioWare were merge if they see no other alternative. Their issue is that they keep hoping for a miracle so that they don't actually have to do the work to fix the issues in the game that hinder such operations.

Edited March 10, 2017 by BJWyler

[kvandertulip]

BioWare were merge if they see no other alternative. Their issue is that they keep hoping for a miracle so that they don't actually have to do the work to fix the issues in the game that hinder such operations.

 

This pretty much sums it up. In Bioware/EA's mind you can only fit so many players on a server. Servers mergers would mean cutting the potential number of players they could have in half. They have this idea that they might have a flood of returning players at some point in the future causing server login queues. It is unrealistic at this point in the game's life cycle to think that is a possibility.

Edited March 10, 2017 by kvandertulip

[Syal]

Bioware Please Merge Servers. Group content is dead from lack of population.

 

OR make every thing solo, OR increase companion group number !

[Ratajack]

Exactly, yet many people who are against mergers use the reasoning of losing everything that someone who can transfer will lose. So to say that a transfer is an option, it really isn't if you have investments in things that BioWare has not yet fixed in either process.

 

If it is so easy to rebuild, then mergers aren't a problem on that front either.

 

Ironically, many of those who refuse to transfer to a higher population server use the loss of things such as guilds and guild assets, decorated strongholds, etc as their excuse for not transferring, but they demand server merges.

 

If the upheaval to those things that a transfer would cause is so dreadful, then why is is it OK to demand server mergers which would only force everyone to suffer those headaches and nightmares?

 

"I refuse to solve my perceived problem using the means I have available to me. BW, make everyone suffer the headaches and nightmares that a server merger would cause."

 

 

They have already merged servers in the past. They have gone from a sub based game to one that is primarily free to play, though they are making every effort to minimize that switch. The cat has long been out of the bag. BioWare were merge if they see no other alternative. Their issue is that they keep hoping for a miracle so that they don't actually have to do the work to fix the issues in the game that hinder such operations.

 

Yes, there have been two mergers in the past. Both of them caused nightmares and headaches for guilds. Some guilds never recovered after those merges. Neither merge transferred guilds intact or guild banks.

 

Now, there are a host of other things that have been added to the game that would be impacted by server merges.

 

In the end, the final decision is up to BW. As TUXs said, BW gets to dictate everything, We can voice our opinions, but we do not get to make the decisions.

 

If BW sees no alternative, then I would expect them to merge servers. The problem that many who demand server merges have is that BW apparently DOES see an alternative at this time. BW has chosen to leave the choice of server and server population up to the individual player and lowered the cost of server transfers indefinitely.

 

Many of those that demand server merges don't like this decision, though, and continue to pester the devs like petulant children, hoping that the devs will cave and give them their server merges,

 

Child 1: "Mommy, can we have a cookie"

 

Mother: "No."

 

Child 2:"Mommy, we want a cookie."

 

Mother: "No."

 

Child 3: "Mommy, give us a cookie."

 

Mother: <silence>

 

Child 4: "Mommy won't give us a cookie, so let's sit and plan a way to make her give us a cookie. We'll make her see that she is wrong and she really should give us that cookie."

 

 

I would not expect to see server merges until and unless BW can insure that no one will be negatively impacted in any way with regards to things like guilds and guild assets, strongholds, legacy storage, etc. That is just my opinion, though, and I expect that those demanding server merges will continue to pester the devs like those petulant children.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Ratajack

[Savej]

According to Bad Feeling podcast #147 Charles and/or Eric said merges are not an "if" but a "when" at this point. BW is working on the new programming issues including outfit and stronghold resets, guild asset transfers and naming conflicts. I don't know why they won't say something formally but they said a lot about merges informally at the pseudo event the podcast had earlier this year. Edited March 10, 2017 by Savej

[Ratajack]

According to Bad Feeling podcast #147 Charles and/or Eric said merges are not an "if" but a "when" at this point. BW is working on the new programming issues including outfit and stronghold resets, guild asset transfers and naming conflicts. I don't know why they won't say something formally but they said a lot about merges informally at the pseudo event the podcast had earlier this year.

 

Again with the second hand, third party "source", and unless there was a second Bad Feeling podcast, you still cannot be honest even about that.

 

I listened to the podcast that was linked by another poster.

 

According to that third party, second hand "source", BW indicated that they did not want to merge servers UNLESS it could be done in such a way that no one would be negatively impacted. Unless I missed it, even that third party, second hand "source" never gave any indication that ANY BW source ever said that server merges were a "question of when, not if" or even that BW was actively working on resolving the issues surrounding guilds and guild assets, outfits, strongholds, legacy storage, etc.

 

I'm sure there will be others who take that "My cousin told me that he has a friend who's father was talking to some random stranger who told him that he had friend who heard from someone else that BW said..." as a promise from BW that server mergers are imminent.

 

Is it possible that BW is actively working to resolve all the issues surrounding server merges? Yes, and it is possible that they are remaining silent about doing so in case they are unable to resolve those issues.

 

It is also possible that they have no plans to merge servers and are not even looking to resolve all the issue surrounding server merges.

[Savej]

Again with the second hand, third party "source", and unless there was a second Bad Feeling podcast, you still cannot be honest even about that.

 

I listened to the podcast that was linked by another poster...

 

Are you saying the event didn't happen or that anything Chuck and Brian said was a lie? They never used the word "unless" in their podcast - that's all you.

[Ratajack]

Are you saying the event didn't happen or that anything Chuck and Brian said was a lie? They never used the word "unless" in their podcast - that's all you.

 

I'm not saying that the event didn't happen or that your third party, second hand "source" was lying. I'm saying that it sounds like someone is being a lot less then honest because unless I missed it, even your third party, second hand "source" never said that anyone from BW said that server merges are a question of "when", not "if".

 

http://badfeelingpodcast.com/audio/podcasts/episode_147_final.mp3

 

Anyone who wants to hear what they ACTUALLY said can listen for themselves. They start talking about server merges around 13:20.

 

Even if BW does eventually solve the issues surrounding server merges and decides to merge servers, those mergers might not be as all encompassing as some would like. BW may decide to simply merge the old "PVP" servers and leave the rest as they are, or they could merge servers into one East Coast and one West Coast, or do it another way entirely.

 

We can only wait to see what BW decides to do.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Ratajack