Bad Days Ahead..........Immediate Responce Required

[Ratajack]

Ebon Hawk may be the second largest NA server, but that is like saying you have 2 cars in a race a corvette and a Honda civic. And then you say that the civic came in second place to the corvette. Its not even comparable even thpough its in second.

 

EH is in horrible shape. Queue pops only during peak if that. Your cruel to suggest this server.

 

Some have indicated that they have quick queue times on Harbinger. Others have indicated that they get frequent quick queues on Ebon Hawk. Even many of those on Shadowlands or JC have indicated in other threads that they do not suffer from interminable queue times.

 

It seems to me that if some people are having trouble finding queues to pop on Harbinger, JC, Shadowlands and Ebon Hawk, the common denominator is not the server.

 

How many of those who are finding it difficult to get queues to pop have found their way onto multiple ignore lists, this increasing their queue times?

 

It really isn't that inconceivable that someone who apparently wants to force people to play their way by merging servers would display that attitude in other ways, possibly rubbing others the wrong way and ending up on multiple ignore lists.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Ratajack

[Mubrak]

It really isn't that inconceivable that someone who apparently wants to force people to play their way by merging servers would display that attitude in other ways, possibly rubbing others the wrong way and ending up on multiple ignore lists.

 

There's a nice solution for that: Use a server transfer for 90cc and BW throws in a free name change

Edited February 20, 2017 by Mubrak

[Ratajack]

There's a nice solution for that: Use a server transfer for 90cc and BW throws in a free name change

 

That is true, but that requires that people be willing to actually take some responsibility for solving their perceived problems. How many of those demanding server merges have stated that they refuse to use the options available to them to solve their perceived problem, including server transfers?

[Savej]

All of the arguments against server mergers in this thread could have applied equally to a time right before the first merges. "Just start over on Fatman or Jung Ma" : two of the only servers in NA that ever got to "Heavy" or "Full" before the first merges - both pvp servers incidentally. There were plenty of people saying no merges were needed back then. I promise there wouldn't be a game right now if they hadn't done merges. SWTOR is currently in sad shape, doing much worse than it could or should be doing and I blame the lack of merges before TFA as much as anything for that, but if this game doesn't get merges soon I can almost guarantee very little will be left in 1-2 years. Why do I care? I like meaty expacs. Dead and dying games get crappy, gimmicky expacs (case in point) and virtually no or very slow balance/bug patches. Edited February 20, 2017 by Savej

[Lunafox]

What I don't get is why don't the people who want to move to a more populated server, just go ahead and do so? The transfers are only 90cc right now, and subs get cc every month, so it's not like it costs anything. Go where ever it floats your boat.

 

I fail to understand what is with the dictator-like mentality that makes these threads demanding that *everyone* on a server be forced to go elsewhere and lose their guild ships and houses and stuff they've accomplished, maybe even their names, just to suit the person wanting the merge. Don't like where you are? Move yourself.

 

Screw merges. They're not needed. Use your coins that you get each month and move yourself. It's pretty much like the transfers are free. Problem solved.

[forestguard]

Ebon Hawk may be the second largest NA server, but that is like saying you have 2 cars in a race a corvette and a Honda civic. And then you say that the civic came in second place to the corvette. Its not even comparable even thpough its in second.

 

EH is in horrible shape. Queue pops only during peak if that. Your cruel to suggest this server.

 

So what would you recommend for a person who doesn't want to log into Harbinger? Suck it up or quit?

 

Queues don't only pop during peak. I get pops fairly regularly, at least for FPs and Uprisings. PvP is a little slower, but that's a small subset of Ebon Hawk's community. The people are awesome, few trolls here and there, but for the most part it's decent. GF doesn't make me want to just isolate myself. Few larger PvP/PvE guilds around, RP guilds, as well as trifecta guilds.

 

"Allies" chat is handy as well. I joined the channel on Saturday, quickly ended up in a group running EV for the group finder, then Sunday found a group for GF DF, both around 3 PMish (both times I think each boss dropped at least 1, if not 2, unassembled gear pieces as well. Was weird.)

 

All in all, a good server. Not perfect, but good.

[Ratajack]

And those who want low pop servers FORCE those who want higher pop servers to give up everything and pay to move their character. Both sides are forcing the other side to do something they don't want to do. And all you have to do is look at other games and you'll see that low pop servers are not what the majority of players or game companies want. If there wasn't the issue of loosing everything upon transferring and BW offered one time free transfers I'd wager you'd see those low pop servers getting even lower in population until it no longer made business sense to keep running them.

 

There is a world of difference between Johnny CHOOSING to remain on a "dead" (in Johnny's opinion) server and not avail himself of the options available to him to play on a more populated server and Johnny's advocating taking Billy's choice to play on a lower populated server and FORCING Billy to play on an overpopulated (in Billy's opinion) server full of childish, rude and immature players who delight in ruining other players gaming experience. The fact that some people refuse to open their eyes and see this difference does not negate that difference.

[AscendingSky]

So what would you recommend for a person who doesn't want to log into Harbinger? Suck it up or quit?

 

Queues don't only pop during peak. I get pops fairly regularly, at least for FPs and Uprisings. PvP is a little slower, but that's a small subset of Ebon Hawk's community. The people are awesome, few trolls here and there, but for the most part it's decent. GF doesn't make me want to just isolate myself. Few larger PvP/PvE guilds around, RP guilds, as well as trifecta guilds.

 

"Allies" chat is handy as well. I joined the channel on Saturday, quickly ended up in a group running EV for the group finder, then Sunday found a group for GF DF, both around 3 PMish (both times I think each boss dropped at least 1, if not 2, unassembled gear pieces as well. Was weird.)

 

All in all, a good server. Not perfect, but good.

 

As another player on Ebon Hawk, I would agree. I'm okay with my server... could be better, it's definitely less populated than it used to be, but it's certainly not dead enough to justify merging into Harbinger. I wouldn't consider it worth it to transfer to another server and lose all my guild bank/SH/guild ship investment at this point just because the pops have slowed down (which they admittedly have). It's the ghost town servers where you can't get ANY pops for group content that need help right now.

Edited February 20, 2017 by AscendingSky

[Foambreaker]

Free Transfers from certain underpopulated servers.

[Ratajack]

Free Transfers from certain underpopulated servers.

 

Subs get a minimum of 500 CC's free per month. Transfers only cost 90 CC.

[Anzel]

My entire guild packed up and left Harbinger more then a year ago. It was simply becoming a cesspool over time as more people transferred in. Yes, we had to organize the move, and handle some reinvestment costs for guild assets, but that was easy to quantify and plan, and was something we had control over. The reinvestment costs were completely worth it too. We kept a placeholder on Harbinger in case we ever want to move back, but that appears less likely over time.

 

We like it on Ebon Hawk, and the server is fine... much better community then Harbinger, a player economy that is in many ways healthier then Harbinger at this time, and an active player population. AND being a stable and active guild... we are in no way dependent on the popular "cannon fodder" model that is random grouping and queuing.

 

This makes me so so so so so so happy that I'm on Harbinger and NOT EH.

[MaximumOwnage]

This makes me so so so so so so happy that I'm on Harbinger and NOT EH.

 

Yeah, ditto that!

[Nevaeh-Heaven]

I don't care what you want OP. You have no right to ask BW to move my account that I pay for to personally benefit you. Neither does any other player. Ask BW to move your account if you want, not mine.

[BJWyler]

There is a world of difference between Johnny CHOOSING to remain on a "dead" (in Johnny's opinion) server and not avail himself of the options available to him to play on a more populated server and Johnny's advocating taking Billy's choice to play on a lower populated server and FORCING Billy to play on an overpopulated (in Billy's opinion) server full of childish, rude and immature players who delight in ruining other players gaming experience. The fact that some people refuse to open their eyes and see this difference does not negate that difference.

 

True that, but at the end of the day, the servers aren't there to be Billy's exclusive playground either. If BioWare can afford to keep "dead" servers up and running, then more power to them, I suppose. But at the end of the day, this was, is, and always will be an MMO until BioWare gives us the option to play 100% of the content solo and offline, like any other Single-player RPG.

 

Many people came, and still are, here for the MMO aspect of this MMO. They have every right to demand that BioWare make sure they are able to get that experience that BioWare sold them and that they came here for, and I believe they have a right to do it without having to go through additional hoops or costs to do so. This was, is, and will be an MMO after all. You shouldn't have to do anything extra in order to play it as such.

 

At the end of the day, it probably makes better fiscal sense to keep as few servers running as possible, if anything in the last couple of years points out. Again, if BW can handle the cost of keeping personal playground servers running, then I don't have a problem with it. However, in my mind, it doesn't seem to suit the long term health of the game, nor the bottom line to do so. I think it's long past time to do one final merger into one or two megaservers and be done with it. There have been several MMOs that have condensed down that far with no problems for the population.

[Ratajack]

True that, but at the end of the day, the servers aren't there to be Billy's exclusive playground either. If BioWare can afford to keep "dead" servers up and running, then more power to them, I suppose. But at the end of the day, this was, is, and always will be an MMO until BioWare gives us the option to play 100% of the content solo and offline, like any other Single-player RPG.

 

I don't recall Billy asking for an exclusive playground. I have only seen Billy asking not to be FORCED into a server he finds overpopulated and full of immature, rude and childish players who delight in pushing the limits and ruining his gaming experience.

 

Many people came, and still are, here for the MMO aspect of this MMO. They have every right to demand that BioWare make sure they are able to get that experience that BioWare sold them and that they came here for, and I believe they have a right to do it without having to go through additional hoops or costs to do so. This was, is, and will be an MMO after all. You shouldn't have to do anything extra in order to play it as such.

 

Maybe you can provide a receipt or anything that shows that BW promised anyone that they would have instant queues, or even any queues at all. Maybe you can provide some sort of evidence that BW promised players ANYTHING at all about always having access to every type of group content with random LFG fodder.

 

Or, is this a case of people want to claim that BW promised and sold them something that they KNOW that BW neither promised them, nor sold them.

 

I can't help but wonder if you fall into one of two categories. Are you already on Harbinger and feel that you may be safe from the headaches and nightmares if BW merges all the other servers into Harbinger, or (and i think is more likely) are you on a server that you feel is "dead" and refuse to avail yourself of the options that you KNOW are available which would allow you to solve your perceived problem.

 

At the end of the day, it probably makes better fiscal sense to keep as few servers running as possible, if anything in the last couple of years points out. Again, if BW can handle the cost of keeping personal playground servers running, then I don't have a problem with it. However, in my mind, it doesn't seem to suit the long term health of the game, nor the bottom line to do so. I think it's long past time to do one final merger into one or two megaservers and be done with it. There have been several MMOs that have condensed down that far with no problems for the population.

 

At the end of the day, that decision is up to BW, as you say. Thus far they have decided NOT to merge servers. They have so far decided to let the players CHOOSE where they want to play and even extended the 90 CC transfer cost.

 

That does not stop the "Merge servers NOW!!!!!! I NEED more LFG fodder and to heck with anyone else!!!!!!!" crowd from continuing to pester the devs, though.

[BJWyler]

I don't recall Billy asking for an exclusive playground. I have only seen Billy asking not to be FORCED into a server he finds overpopulated and full of immature, rude and childish players who delight in pushing the limits and ruining his gaming experience.

But in essence, that is exactly what Billy is asking for, reasons notwithstanding. Perhaps Billy is one of those who is not well versed in the MMO genre and hasn't grown that MMO thick-skin to be able to ignore the griefers that populate all MMOs, but at the end of the day, the gaming community is filled with such flotsam and jetsam. Those looking for the more populated servers have the choice to transfer. Billy has the choice to turn off chat and ignore Group finder (and all group activties as well).

 

 

 

Maybe you can provide a receipt or anything that shows that BW promised anyone that they would have instant queues, or even any queues at all. Maybe you can provide some sort of evidence that BW promised players ANYTHING at all about always having access to every type of group content with random LFG fodder.

 

Or, is this a case of people want to claim that BW promised and sold them something that they KNOW that BW neither promised them, nor sold them.

I didn't mention any of those things. All I said was that BioWare sold an MMO. What one expects out of an MMO is going to be different for everybody. However, there are some expectations that can be considered core to the genre and is what sets it apart from all other games and genres. I personally find that BioWare has been seriously lacking in living up to some of those core principles, therefore, I have no problem with people complaining about them or expecting BioWare to take responsibility for it and correct it without having people who came here for the MMO experience to have to go out of their way to try and obtain said experience.

 

I can't help but wonder if you fall into one of two categories. Are you already on Harbinger and feel that you may be safe from the headaches and nightmares if BW merges all the other servers into Harbinger, or (and i think is more likely) are you on a server that you feel is "dead" and refuse to avail yourself of the options that you KNOW are available which would allow you to solve your perceived problem.

Neither actually. My main server has been The Shadowlands. I also played briefly on JC when one of my multi-gaming guilds had some people there as well. I rarely PvP and have never played an OPs, though it was one of my goals to begin to learn them with my Shadowlands guild before everyone pretty much quit the game over the last 18 months or so. I have always been primarily the solo player and find the core 1-55 experience the best part of the game. I played on servers that were in worse shape than we have now before the Great First Merger. I have been quite happy on my current servers, and don't see that changing any time soon.

 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, that decision is up to BW, as you say. Thus far they have decided NOT to merge servers. They have so far decided to let the players CHOOSE where they want to play and even extended the 90 CC transfer cost.

 

That does not stop the "Merge servers NOW!!!!!! I NEED more LFG fodder and to heck with anyone else!!!!!!!" crowd from continuing to pester the devs, though.

 

Because, at the end of the day, the transfers are simply one of the panaceas that BioWare likes to look for and use instead of owning up to their mistakes and correcting them. Again, I don't disagree this it is minimal effort to transfer a couple of characters, and it would be no big deal to me with the CC I have accumulated over time to transfer all my toons if it was something I was at all interested in. However, in a game built upon altohitis and the lack of proper guild management and transfer tools, the current state of the "solution" is very lacking imo, to put it mildly. Most certainly, people with many, many alts and those with guild ships and such are in a worse position than they should in that regard. As I have said before, I personally do not believe that players who came here for the MMO experience should have to do any of that. It was, and still is, incumbent upon BioWare to provide the MMO experience they sold when they made this game an MMO without forcing, or asking, players to do anything extra in order to obtain it.

Edited February 21, 2017 by BJWyler

[MaximumOwnage]

I don't care what you want OP. You have no right to ask BW to move my account that I pay for to personally benefit you. Neither does any other player. Ask BW to move your account if you want, not mine.

 

And I don't care what you want. Whats best for the games health is what I want. And its pretty clear healthy server population is one of them whether you like it or not.

[TUXs]

And I don't care what you want. Whats best for the games health is what I want. And its pretty clear healthy server population is one of them whether you like it or not.

Agreed!!!

[Ratajack]

And I don't care what you want. Whats best for the games health is what I want. And its pretty clear healthy server population is one of them whether you like it or not.

 

First, that is your OPINION, not necessarily fact. Your OPINION may be shared by others, but obviously, not by everyone.

 

Second, define "healthy population". YOUR definition of "healthy population" may not be shared by everyone.

 

I'm not even sure that BW shares your opinion, since their last statement was that they had no plans to merge servers at that time, but wold re-evaluate after the first of the year. Unless I am mistaken, they did NOT tell us that they would share the results of that re-evaluation, despite what some would have us believe.

 

It is well into February and they have not given any indication that they plan to reverse their decision. They did extend the 90 CC character transfer, though.

 

BW may think that is the best answer, especially when one considers the nightmares and headaches that server merges would cause with regards to guilds and guild assets as well as individual accounts and things like names and legacy storage.

 

As it stands now, the choice of server and server population is entirely up to the individual player.

 

Is that the answer that the "Merge servers NOW!!!!! I NEED more LFG fodder!!!!!!!!" crowd wants to hear? No, but it may be the only answer we will get, no matter how loudly or how long that "Merge servers NOW!!!!! I NEED more LFG fodder!!!!!!!!" cries.

[PlasmaJohn]

If BioWare can afford to keep "dead" servers up and running, then more power to them, ...

The only time "expense" comes into the equation is if EA needs the rack space for something more profitable. The difference between running 100 machines and 90 is statistical noise.

 

EA right now has a severe retention problem. Letting new folks start on the dead servers only exacerbates it. At a minimum those servers should not even show up without special effort on the part of the player (eg. change a profile setting).

 

tl;dr: Keeping them up has little economic impact. Losing subscribers over it does.

[Savej]

First, that is your OPINION, not necessarily fact. Your OPINION may be shared by others, but obviously, not everyone...

 

It's an opinion shared by most other mmo devs (all major mmos have mega server or x-server) and it's shared by BW if you read any of the announcements or posts they've made on the subject. Note that BW has informally said merges are coming as recently as a few weeks ago, they just haven't said when.

[Ratajack]

The only time "expense" comes into the equation is if EA needs the rack space for something more profitable. The difference between running 100 machines and 90 is statistical noise.

 

EA right now has a severe retention problem. Letting new folks start on the dead servers only exacerbates it. At a minimum those servers should not even show up without special effort on the part of the player (eg. change a profile setting).

 

tl;dr: Keeping them up has little economic impact. Losing subscribers over it does.

 

First, your definition of "dead" server may not be shared by everyone.

 

Could BW add some sort of indicator as to general server population? Yes, they could put remarks next to the servers, I guess. How do they do that so that they give "full disclosure" without taking way the player's choice of server or making them jump through hoops to play on a lower population server if that is their choice.

 

Maybe they could put "Highest population, but full of rude, childish and immature players who delight in ruining other player's gaming experience." next to Harbinger, "Lower population than Harbinger, but overall, a much more respectful community" next to Eon Hawk, "medium population but still fairly active" next to JC or Shadowlands, "Former PVP servers with very low populations and infrequent queue pops. May be fine for players who do not rely on group finding tools for group content or who prefer to play mostly solo." by the former PVP servers.

 

Similar comments could be added for the EU servers.

[TUXs]

It's an opinion shared by most other mmo devs (all major mmos have mega server or x-server) and it's shared by BW if you read any of the announcements or posts they've made on the subject. Note that BW has informally said merges are coming as recently as a few weeks ago, they just haven't said when.

It's also common sense.

 

Honestly, why are people still feeding the troll? It's not about debate with some people.

[Ratajack]

It's an opinion shared by most other mmo devs (all major mmos have mega server or x-server) and it's shared by BW if you read any of the announcements or posts they've made on the subject. Note that BW has informally said merges are coming as recently as a few weeks ago, they just haven't said when.

 

You've said that before, but if I am not mistaken, you refused to provide any source.

 

I'm not saying that BW did not say what you claim they said, but until you provide a BW source for such comments, those comments are nothing more than empty attempts to stir up more controversy.

 

Even if they DO choose to merge servers, they may just merge the old PVP servers into one single server, leaving JC, Shadowlands, Ebon Hawk and Harbinger as they are.

[MaximumOwnage]

You've said that before, but if I am not mistaken, you refused to provide any source.

 

I'm not saying that BW did not say what you claim they said, but until you provide a BW source for such comments, those comments are nothing more than empty attempts to stir up more controversy.

 

Even if they DO choose to merge servers, they may just merge the old PVP servers into one single server, leaving JC, Shadowlands, Ebon Hawk and Harbinger as they are.

 

If they merged all the PVP servers, they would have 14 people on fleet rather than 3. Your so far off base with your logic I don't know how to respond.

 

The game is so unbalanced its sick. Harbinger is going downhill quickly and the next most populated server next to Harbinger is 1/2 or worse than Harbinger population wise. EH, JC, SL, and BC are all in absolute dismal condition UNLESS your a solo player.

 

We are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy beyond merging the PVP servers. That was about 2-3 years ago. We are at the point of a mega server for NA and one for EU or this game is over. Its just that simple.