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MaximumOwnage

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But that is y CHOICE, right now. Some people do not want to transfer because thy are happy where they are.

 

FORCING Johnny to "transfer" by merging servers if NOT going to magically make Johnny use the LFG tool if he chooses to do his group content with friends and guildmates. The only thing it will do is to annoy Johnny.

 

Billy is still likely to have to wait the eternity that is 5 minutes for that queue to pop.

 

 

I've seen you throw out that stupid 5 minutes before and it's continuously debunked by others. This isn't about 5 minutes ques, this is about people logging in and waiting multiple hours for a que that never comes. There's also the added benefit of a more active GTN with larger server pops.

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First, as has been noted in practically every one of these spammed "merge servers NOW!!!" threads, BW has stated that the game engine will not handle the cross server grouping.

 

Second, cross server grouping is not the holy grail that some seem to think it is. I'm going to guess that the ratio of tanks to heals to DPS is relatively consistent across all the servers. I doubt that Server A has an overabundance of tanks and is constantly waiting on DPS to queue while server B is always waiting for tanks. I think it far more likely that even with cross server queues, the ratio will remain about the same.

 

Let's not forget the single biggest problem with cross server queuing--the loss of any personal accountability for actions or behavior. Right now, Johnny knows that if he is a D-bag, word is going to get around on the server. With cross server queuing, why should Johnny worry about behaving in a respectable, responsible manner when he will likely never see any of those players again, let alone be grouped with any of them?

 

First, I know that about the engine and wrote it somewhere above in this thread. But every technical issue is solvable if you don't lack the know how/competence. In addition, the release of this game on an unsupported beta engine with no manufacturer support and updates/upgrades, modified by people who don't work there anymore, thus having not even the slightest clue left within the company about this modified and outdated crap engine, is state of the art incompetence and ignorance to begin with.

 

Also, your comments about x server are completely missing the point, probably because you can't even remotely imagine the situation on 6 of the 9 European servers. This is not about class restrictions to build balanced groups for master fps/etc., it's about no pops at all, not even veteran fps, also NO pvp and gsf of course. There are not enough people. Max population on the fleet during a very short time frame some hours during the weekend is like 8 people, 2-3 of them gold sellers lol.

THAT is the situation Bioware manages to ignore for 12+ months already while also harmimg themselves in an extreme way, customer wise regarding this game but also reputation wise. I for instance will definitely never ever play any game from Bioware or EA again in the future.

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Ah, but they are. They are saying that if Johnny wants to play on a larger pop server then he either needs to start over at lvl 1 on that server, pay to loose everything in a transfer, or stay where he is and continue to play the game in a manor they don't like.

 

I'm not saying to have BW merge the servers before fixing the issues that currently exist, but both sides are telling the other side to go screw themselves.

 

Even though I'm sure that was not your intent, you yourself just admitted that those wishing to play on lower populated servers are NOT advocating taking away ANY of the choices that Johnny has NOW.

 

 

Johnny is demanding that BW give him ANOTHER choice and FORCE Billy to play the way the Johnny wants to play.

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I've seen you throw out that stupid 5 minutes before and it's continuously debunked by others. This isn't about 5 minutes ques, this is about people logging in and waiting multiple hours for a que that never comes. There's also the added benefit of a more active GTN with larger server pops.

 

While the 5 minutes may be an exaggeration, I did not pick that number out of the air, so to speak. That number was set by one of the most vocal of those demanding server merges.

 

That is incorrect. If server queues start taking 5 minutes and more to pop like they did on POT5 before I left that server and there is no other server to transfer to I will 100% quit the game. I have been here since day 1 of launch and I will quit the game plain and simple. And it would be solely on the queue time. I enjoy this game very much but there is no way I am going to play this or any other game for that matter that the best you can give me is a 5 minute queue time running PVP instances that take 5-10 minutes to run. Sorry but that's how it is. So far on Harbringer even at 4 am est I usually get a queue pop in less than 5 minutes. During peak times it is usually instant or close to it. When and if that changes to longer than 5 minutes I am gone.
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First, I know that about the engine and wrote it somewhere above in this thread. But every technical issue is solvable if you don't lack the know how/competence. In addition, the release of this game on an unsupported beta engine with no manufacturer support and updates/upgrades, modified by people who don't work there anymore, thus having not even the slightest clue left within the company about this modified and outdated crap engine, is state of the art incompetence and ignorance to begin with.

 

So, while it may be "state of the art incompetence and ignorance", it sounds like you dmit that BW does not have the "know how" to solve "every technical issue". That is not even addressing the fact that some technical issues, while technically solvable, may be light years beyond the point of cost effectiveness to "solve".

 

Also, your comments about x server are completely missing the point, probably because you can't even remotely imagine the situation on 6 of the 9 European servers. This is not about class restrictions to build balanced groups for master fps/etc., it's about no pops at all, not even veteran fps, also NO pvp and gsf of course. There are not enough people. Max population on the fleet during a very short time frame some hours during the weekend is like 8 people, 2-3 of them gold sellers lol.

 

If "no one" is queuing, then what makes you think that cross server queuing will magically get those who are not queuing to start queuing?

 

THAT is the situation Bioware manages to ignore for 12+ months already while also harmimg themselves in an extreme way, customer wise regarding this game but also reputation wise. I for instance will definitely never ever play any game from Bioware or EA again in the future.

 

Then why do you care?

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Those against mergers are NOT trying to FORCE anyone to play the game "their" way or on a server with "their" preferred server population. They are NOT trying to take away anyone's choice of preferred server population.

 

I have yet to see one single person say that "Johnny cannot transfer off his 'dead' server to play on a higher populated server" or "Johnny is playing the game wrong if he wants to play on a higher populated server".

 

Other than for some heroics that can easily be ignored, how is playing on a server without a population in this game better than playing on one with a population?

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Other than for some heroics that can easily be ignored, how is playing on a server without a population in this game better than playing on one with a population?

 

I play on Ebon Hawk and we are doing fine but yet people from Harbinger cry that everyone should be on that server. No thank you.

 

Yes there are some that need to be merged but not every blasted server needs to be merged and that is the point people are trying to make.

 

Some yes, all No.

 

Why in the world would I want to go to a server like Harbinger and deal with all that mess when my server is good for getting groups and doing things. Does that make sense? No. but yet some people have been crying for years to get all servers merged into Harbinger because that is where they are at and think everyone should be there and even when you t ell them some servers have no problems they ignore you.

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Other than for some heroics that can easily be ignored, how is playing on a server without a population in this game better than playing on one with a population?

 

1) better names available

2) heroics are easier to hit up

3) more likely to encounter the same people in group content and actually feels like a community. old school mmo's often had small enough servers that ninja looters or pvp griefers would be known throughout the server and shunned. I miss that as even on a mid-size server in SWTOR I have no idea who 99% of players are

4) established guilds

5) established GTN patterns

6) not having to worry about what might bug out in a forced merge.

7) no server login ques which have been a thing everytime servers merged

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Other than for some heroics that can easily be ignored, how is playing on a server without a population in this game better than playing on one with a population?

 

That has been explained many times in each and every one of these spammed "merge servers NOW!!!" threads, but for those with selective memories, I will repeat.

 

It is not just a "few heroics that can easily be ignored". Many of those "easily ignored" heroics are required for the GC bonus.

 

It is only partially about not having to fight over quest mobs, resources, etc. It also has a lot to do with the general behavior of many of the people on those servers, and not just in chat.

 

Harbinger has seen a drastic decline in overall maturity and respectability of player behavior and chat.

 

Chat on Harbinger is nothing but one big blob of immature and childish attempts to offend those with a modicum of maturity and respectability. It makes no difference what planet, although fleet and the starter and capitol worlds are by far the worst areas.

 

I doubt very much if players on Ebon Hawk, Jedi Covenant, Shadowlands have to deal with the childish, immature behavior or chat, but I guess the lower population means it is not as easy to remain anonymous and hide behind the internet.

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That has been explained many times in each and every one of these spammed "merge servers NOW!!!" threads, but for those with selective memories, I will repeat.

 

It is not just a "few heroics that can easily be ignored". Many of those "easily ignored" heroics are required for the GC bonus.

 

It is only partially about not having to fight over quest mobs, resources, etc. It also has a lot to do with the general behavior of many of the people on those servers, and not just in chat.

 

Harbinger has seen a drastic decline in overall maturity and respectability of player behavior and chat.

 

Chat on Harbinger is nothing but one big blob of immature and childish attempts to offend those with a modicum of maturity and respectability. It makes no difference what planet, although fleet and the starter and capitol worlds are by far the worst areas.

 

I doubt very much if players on Ebon Hawk, Jedi Covenant, Shadowlands have to deal with the childish, immature behavior or chat, but I guess the lower population means it is not as easy to remain anonymous and hide behind the internet.

 

Speaking for myself (Ebon Hawk) we have a very respectful community, though in DK, you can find a few trolls from time to time, but generally speaking they are very polite and helpful.

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As someone on JC I'd welcome more than 1 Ranked match at a time during prime time. Cross server please. :)

 

FF got cross data center party finder and duty finder so it's pretty lit even though I'm on the second smallest server. :3

Edited by FerkWork
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That has been explained many times in each and every one of these spammed "merge servers NOW!!!" threads, but for those with selective memories, I will repeat.

 

It is not just a "few heroics that can easily be ignored". Many of those "easily ignored" heroics are required for the GC bonus.

 

It is only partially about not having to fight over quest mobs, resources, etc. It also has a lot to do with the general behavior of many of the people on those servers, and not just in chat.

 

Harbinger has seen a drastic decline in overall maturity and respectability of player behavior and chat.

 

Chat on Harbinger is nothing but one big blob of immature and childish attempts to offend those with a modicum of maturity and respectability. It makes no difference what planet, although fleet and the starter and capitol worlds are by far the worst areas.

 

I doubt very much if players on Ebon Hawk, Jedi Covenant, Shadowlands have to deal with the childish, immature behavior or chat, but I guess the lower population means it is not as easy to remain anonymous and hide behind the internet.

 

I said "other than heroics" but if you want to go there... Who does heroics for "GC"? If you are doing heroics for "GC" you are doing it wrong. However, if you pick the right planets/dlyies you won't have problems doing heroics and "planetary missions" as much, and as unhindered by lines, as you want to on any server. But this game is heavily focused on solo content (story) or group content, not heroics.

 

What "quest mobs" are you referring to? I'm struggling here with that one. Are you talking about finding the tauntauns? I think you're confusing this game with some others. I've never had any issues doing the Czerka or Oricon or Ilum or Belsavis or Y4 or Black Hole dailies on Harb or TEH or any other server I've done them on (most of them at one time or another) and there are very few "quest mobs" in any of those that don't respawn very fast.

 

As for chat... turn it off and "poof", you're practically in your own instance, very quiet. But I've run into dirtbags on every US server no matter the population (other than Bastion and BC which I've never played much on). Groupfinder pops on all of them result in almost exactly the same ranges and extremes of personalities. If your goal is to avoid players you should not play MMOs.

 

All of these sound like trivial concerns that do not drive any sane person's fun. If you really consider them to be legitimate excuses to keep game-crippling servers around I don't think you're being honest with yourself but I'll leave it at that. Meanwhile many players with non-transferable assets are stuck on dead servers and new players are investing time and efforts on dead servers without even suspecting that there are better experiences (that the majority of MMO'ers are here for and that drive GXP the most) available on other servers. Remember - just about every major MMO out there but this one has x-server or mega servers: there are numerous legitimate reasons for that.

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I said "other than heroics" but if you want to go there... Who does heroics for "GC"? If you are doing heroics for "GC" you are doing it wrong. However, if you pick the right planets/dlyies you won't have problems doing heroics and "planetary missions" as much, and as unhindered by lines, as you want to on any server. But this game is heavily focused on solo content (story) or group content, not heroics.

 

Are heroics solo content or group content? Either way, they fall into one of the two categories you mentioned.

 

I guess I never got the memo that Savej makes the rules as to how to play the game and if you don't play the way Savej does, you're doing it wrong.

 

Some people prefer NOT to PVP or find themselves grouped with a bunch of immature, rude D-bags and A**hats by using the LFG tool.

 

I do my group content with friends and guildmates and have not even touched the LFG tool in well over a year. I do heroics to supplement my GC, not as the main source. It is far easier and quicker to do the DK or Coruscant heroics for the extra GC than it is to do, say, Balmorra.

 

What "quest mobs" are you referring to? I'm struggling here with that one. Are you talking about finding the tauntauns? I think you're confusing this game with some others. I've never had any issues doing the Czerka or Oricon or Ilum or Belsavis or Y4 or Black Hole dailies on Harb or TEH or any other server I've done them on (most of them at one time or another) and there are very few "quest mobs" in any of those that don't respawn very fast.

 

Your experience may not be shared by everyone.

 

As for chat... turn it off and "poof", you're practically in your own instance, very quiet. But I've run into dirtbags on every US server no matter the population (other than Bastion and BC which I've never played much on). Groupfinder pops on all of them result in almost exactly the same ranges and extremes of personalities. If your goal is to avoid players you should not play MMOs.

 

My goal is not to avoid people. My goal is to avoid D-bags ans A**hats. I have guilds on every server on which I play that are full of players who exhibit mature, respectable and responsible behavior. and NOT the immature, childish and rude behavior that is so prevalent on Harbinger.

 

All of these sound like trivial concerns that do not drive any sane person's fun. If you really consider them to be legitimate excuses to keep game-crippling servers around I don't think you're being honest with yourself but I'll leave it at that. Meanwhile many players with non-transferable assets are stuck on dead servers and new players are investing time and efforts on dead servers without even suspecting that there are better experiences (that the majority of MMO'ers are here for and that drive GXP the most) available on other servers. Remember - just about every major MMO out there but this one has x-server or mega servers: there are numerous legitimate reasons for that.

 

I guess server merges are going to magically make those "non-transferable assets " suddenly able to be transferred?

 

Oh, wait... That's right. Those assets will still NOT be transferable, even with server merges. The only thing that will happen is that you will force everyone to suffer the loss of those "non-transferable assets ".

Edited by Ratajack
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No need for an immediate response. Character transfers are 90 cc. If you want to move, move.

 

Server merges are a losing proposition for Bioware, because some percentage of subs will rage quit because they can't keep their character name(s). Better to let people decide whether they want to stay on a less populated server or transfer elsewhere.

 

More people are rage quitting over the lack of population then people who would rage quit over keeping players names.

So many people have rage quit over the whole 5.0 debacle and they've made no meaningful changes to stop all the people leaving. Do you really think they are going to care if a small percentage of people leave because they can't keep their character names.

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More people are rage quitting over the lack of population then people who would rage quit over keeping players names.

So many people have rage quit over the whole 5.0 debacle and they've made no meaningful changes to stop all the people leaving. Do you really think they are going to care if a small percentage of people leave because they can't keep their character names.

 

If they're rage quitting over dead servers then they'd simply find another reason to rage quit. As a sub, we get 600cc. The sale has been on for some time. That's approximately 18 characters that could be transferred. More if you have a longer sub. All without having to pay extra money.

 

So what happens when a merge occurs? All accts are forced to select a different server home. It's like a transfer. All accts have a name check. In a proper merger, the system would check to see who had the name first. If the transferring person did then they keep it and the one on say...harby would have to change.

Guild ships, strongholds, etc etc all lost.

 

So now gamer Joe who has been away from the game for 6 months decides to return.

Joe logs in and sees all of his characters need renaming.

His strong hold is gone.

His guild is gone.

His guildships is gone.

His legacy cargo is gone.

 

What does gamer Joe do? He says eff that and immediately quits.

 

Now something needs to be done but they need to find a way to preserve stuff. If you log in to find all your stuff deleted then you'd rage quit...or I probably would.

 

So what will happen with any merger is that they will have email notices sent out for several weeks or a couple months in advance to warn people and list their options. So no merger will happen any time soon. If you want to play with lots of people then find your way over to a populated server.

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Not to change the subject, but cross server queue system would have prevented the first bout of server mergers over four years ago.

 

How could a company, any company, release a game like this that so heavily relies on a queue for group content without cross server queues? How?

 

I would still be on POT5 if they had that system in place. I would have never left.

 

But sorry to get off the subject, I just had to get that off my chest.

 

The game had no LFG queuing system when it launched. There was no queuing system to rely upon at all, let alone heavily. There was an option to show yourself as "looking for group" in the /who lists, but that was it. Groups were formed manually. This required some actual effort on the part of players to find/form a group, though, and we can't possibly expect Johnny to have to advertise in chat that he is looking to join/fill a group.

 

BW introduced the LFG tool later, in response to the clamoring from the "instant gratification, have to run it NOW, and don't make me form my own groups" crowd.

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Funny. that last post looks like it was made by a Harbinger person. I have toons on that server, and my guild is dead. The pop is there, but the troll factor is high and the juvenile factor is high. The filth factor is high. The rage of having too many people about that you can be a jerk and still have people to play with I guess.

 

And having to show achievs for story mode??? OMG. Really, do they take themselves that seriously?

 

But this is why I really posted: "Or if you are comfortable not having my money, I am comfortable spending it elsewhere.." I love it. quote of the year.

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Yeah, of course I know that but isn't it ridiculous they are incapable to do this flawlessly or at all FIVE years after release? The better solution would be (or would have been since I start to think it's too late now and their winter sleep of ignorance lasted a few seasons too long) x server anyway but they also lack the competence to do this very move, the most intelligent one, an obvious move competent companies like Blizzard and I think almost any Mmorpg running company was and is able to.

 

Some of us still remember the first server merge they did, that was painful enough for many of us at the time but we picked ourselves up and dusted ourselves down ready to get at it again.

The players will do the same again should BW finally bite the bullet and merge some more.

 

It is long overdue but I agree that the root of the issues this game has and always seems to of had stem from the engine and the technical know how on how to get what is needed out of it... Illum slideshows etc still send chills.

However having played other MMO's with megaserver systems.. they are not the all smelling all colourful bed of roses either... such systems bring there own issues with them, but I think its got to the point that anything would be better than allowing it to stagnate any further.

 

I do also think that Maximum has a good point.. making changes to underwhelming systems such as guild flagships would add at least a small amount of motivation again for many guilds/players other than grinding out CXP, but it needs to be more inclusive so that newer or smaller guilds get to be part of it as well. Not every player wants to be part of a fortune 500 elite/pro raid/conquest. Some prefer to keep smaller sized for their own reasons and not have to go spamming every channel repeatedly to keep up with the churn and burn recruitment.

 

I fear though, that SWTOR lacks the creative capability these days to come up with improved systems for things like grouping, guilds and the economy normalisation so what we get left with is out of date, poorly thought out and mechanics / systems which in itself don't help in retaining server numbers. Even renaming a character has little areas not tidied up, like the Guild Ledger - change a name but the ledger wont reflect or at the least add the new name into the ledger.... so many QoL issues exist and have either been left unaddressed or never thought of in the first place.

5 years without a server xfer system that actually works rather than a half baked attempt is just another example of this issue imo.

Edited by Bloodstealer
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If they're rage quitting over dead servers then they'd simply find another reason to rage quit. As a sub, we get 600cc. The sale has been on for some time. That's approximately 18 characters that could be transferred. More if you have a longer sub. All without having to pay extra money.

 

So what happens when a merge occurs? All accts are forced to select a different server home. It's like a transfer. All accts have a name check. In a proper merger, the system would check to see who had the name first. If the transferring person did then they keep it and the one on say...harby would have to change.

Guild ships, strongholds, etc etc all lost.

 

So now gamer Joe who has been away from the game for 6 months decides to return.

Joe logs in and sees all of his characters need renaming.

His strong hold is gone.

His guild is gone.

His guildships is gone.

His legacy cargo is gone.

 

What does gamer Joe do? He says eff that and immediately quits.

 

Now something needs to be done but they need to find a way to preserve stuff. If you log in to find all your stuff deleted then you'd rage quit...or I probably would.

 

So what will happen with any merger is that they will have email notices sent out for several weeks or a couple months in advance to warn people and list their options. So no merger will happen any time soon. If you want to play with lots of people then find your way over to a populated server.

Your analysis of what a server merge would do to an account, sorry, a legacy is ... faulty, but the situation isn't as simple as some would like to think. What I'm about to describe is an *ideal*, not a prediction of what would happen in SWTOR if they merge servers.

 

OK, so let's take the example of merging servers X and Y. And let's do it by producing server Z from the debris. (Allods Online did this when they merged all the Euro and NA language-specific servers into a Euro cross-language server and an NA English/English server. The two new servers both had names that were not the names of any of the older servers. And when they merged the Euro and NA servers into a single non-Russian(1) server, it had yet another new name.)

 

Each legacy on Z would be an exact, total copy of the corresponding legacy on X or Y. No changes in legacy storage, stronghold unlockedness and activation, etc. Character name collisions would be resolved in some specific sort of way (either most-recent-login or oldest-character-creation-date or first-login-afterwards, probably - all of these have disadvantages, although the first and last are less problematic than the second).

 

Legacy name collisions aren't a thing, since legacy names don't have to be unique per server even now.

 

Guild *contents* (ship, stronghold, placed decorations, bank contents, member list, etc.) are just transferred from X or Y to Z. When Allods did this, colliding guild names acquired a suffix that indicated the server of origin. So the two different Flying Sheep(2) guilds would become Flying Sheep (X) and Flying Sheep (Y).

 

As far as I can see, the only real issue is character count. So right now, Johnny has 40 characters on X and 30 on Y. Does that mean he has 70 on Z? Do they up the limit per server? Do they simply force him to choose 18 that will be inactive?

 

But as I said, that's an ideal.

 

And the programming issue thing arises because a lot of things have been added to the game since the last server merges, and their server-merge program / scripting may well not have been kept up-to-date with those additions.

 

(1) The developers are a Russian outfit that's now published by my.com outside Russia, and mail.ru inside. I think they are actually part of mail.ru themselves.

 

(2) A real guild name, thanks. Many of my Pub side characters on Mantle of the Force belong to it.

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The game had no LFG queuing system when it launched. There was no queuing system to rely upon at all, let alone heavily. There was an option to show yourself as "looking for group" in the /who lists, but that was it. Groups were formed manually. This required some actual effort on the part of players to find/form a group, though, and we can't possibly expect Johnny to have to advertise in chat that he is looking to join/fill a group.

 

BW introduced the LFG tool later, in response to the clamoring from the "instant gratification, have to run it NOW, and don't make me form my own groups" crowd.

 

Oh please, now you're being silly. Standing around on fleet spamming LFG messages for hours on end, unable to do anything in the meantime (like class quests, heroics, dailies, gathering mats, etc.), hoping people on fleet would want to do the FP you did because you had no way of reaching the rest of the server with your LFG requests, was not some sort of character-building, heart-warming, noble struggle worthy of praise and respect. It was just plain boring and a waste of people's time. The Group Finder was a much-needed quality of life improvement for the game, and it was surprising the game launched without one.

Edited by AscendingSky
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Oh please, now you're being silly. Standing around on fleet spamming LFG messages for hours on end, unable to do anything in the meantime (like class quests, heroics, dailies, gathering mats, etc.), hoping people on fleet would want to do the FP you did because you had no way of reaching the rest of the server with your LFG requests, was not some sort of character-building, heart-warming, noble struggle worthy of praise and respect. It was just plain boring and a waste of people's time. The Group Finder was a much-needed quality of life improvement for the game, and it was surprising the game launched without one.

 

My response was directed toward someone who claims to have been playing from launch, yet also claims that this game was HEAVILY dependent on LFG queuing from launch and wants to vilify BW for not having cross realm queuing at launch, despite the fact that there was NO LFG queuing at launch.

 

As for your point of doing other things while queue'd. It has or to do with laziness and not wanting to put forth the effort to actually find or form a group, IMO.

 

In my experience, very few players actually DID other things while queue'd. Many simply sat around in fleet and let the game do the work of finding a group for them. Maybe they were watching Youtube videos while waiting to hear that "we found you a group" sound. Many of them definitely were NOT out and about questing on planets or anything.

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