Mr. Musco, it is time for an update on the flying hack situation in ranked PVP

[iam_celestial]

Dear Eric,

 

yesterday I and many others had the (dis)pleasure of spending a whole day with a person doing the infamous flying hack in ranked arenas. This went for many warzones yesterday.

 

To those who do not know, open the spoiler for an explanation on how the hack looks like/works in more detail.

 

 

For a past example of how this hack looks like, click

)

The way it usually works is this: The person using the hack effectively overcomes the physical boundaries of the map and can hide out of the reach of the enemy players. That person is the only one left standing when the end of the arena (sudden death by acid) comes. Both his own team and the opposing team are left at that person's whim - sometimes he /stuck-s and lets the actual winning team win, other times not. On every map the person can hide at a different place - on Corellia Square he can go outside of the force field, i.e. outside of the square. On Tatooine Canyon he would stand on top of one of the huts. On Orbital station he would

return to the spawning area. In unranked warzones, he might come out quickly and plant the bomb on Voidstar etc. etc.

 

 

 

Eric, I am afraid that the previous answer of "report them using the in-game ticket system or send me evidence per email" is not enough anymore. We have been here before, many times, over many years, and things have not changed. We have posted screenshots. We have recorded videos. We have issued many many reports, posted on forums etc. You name it, we have done *all* to make this problem known.

 

Yet, this is still happening and I believe it is time to give us an update & explanation on what is going wrong and why hasn't the possibility for this exploit been closed yet?

 

I would like to set something straight here, which I think that has been misunderstood by you so far: The problem is not the individual. For the record - I do trust you when you say that BW takes some action (after some time) and ban the person using the hack or exploit. But the problem is that he can easily share this information with others. The problem is that your developer colleagues have not yet closed/fixed the program code that allows this.

Please do tell us:

 

 

1. What exactly does that person do to overcome the physical boundaries of the maps? Is the person manipulating the game files? Changing the client somehow? Has he found a combination of actions that allow him to fly? Is it something else?
   
2. How do your colleagues from the development team plan to address that?
   
3. In what timeline do they plan to address that - within the next patch, within the next two patches etc?
   

 

Eric, you are a professional working in customer care. We all know from Customer Care 101 that it is vital to give an update and explain to your customers why a certain problem persists and why has it not been fixed yet, to give an outline of a plan detailing what steps you will take to solve it and so on. Otherwise, you are just alienating your customer base. It has spillover effects as well - what does it say for the image of a company if they cannot close one such evident exploit for years?

 

You guys did a good job in the last developers stream to address our questions and offer solutions. I genuinely felt that you do care about what we think & feel about this great game of ours. I am appealing to your good side now - please do comment and give us an update on the two points that I have outlined above.

 

I posted the same topic on swtor reddit - in case someone who is not subbed reads this and wants to comment there.

 

 

Thank you.

Edited December 18, 2016 by iam_celestial

[Kallie]

Then msg them about it. Don't post it all over the forums.

[dr_mike]

Then msg them about it. Don't post it all over the forums.

 

The poster has stated that they have.

 

I recently did a huttball match and folks were flying all over the place. Not sure if that's the same hack (Yes, I know about those spots on the floor but they go upwards, not across the map) but folks were flying across the map all over the place.

[TrixxieTriss]

Good luck, I've been asking for stuff like this for 5 years. Ive even had discussions with Eric and Tait. Nothing changes, they just do not care enough to put the effort into fixing the problem on the coding side and won't make a deterrent tough enough or make it an easy process to report them.

 

Just implementing those last 2 would have some impact, but it's been falling on deaf ears for 5 years now.

[Baldarhion]

It's more complicated than doing something on the coding side. Most of cheat programs for MMO are based on data packets compromission between the server and the client. For the server side all seems OK : the packet are "signed" and legit.

 

Blizzard try to get rid of the problem by using a warding program (a kind of spyware that you allow to run when you sign the EULA) to check other program specific signature. But of course, the guys who code the cheatware update their programs accordingly :/

 

IP packets are cyphered by the client but IPV4 is really strict on packets size etc. So improving the security with this bias is complicated. And it would cost a lot on server side if packets were multiplied to improve security.

 

So no easy solution :/ The best that they could do is hiring people to monitor WZ. But you sure imagine that this would be really expensive.

 

Sad fact is most of the time these ****** cheats leave no trace. No evidence to trace back the felony :/ At least they should improve the reporting system (= recording packets for further inquiry). A kick system would be nice and fair (I mean, if some guy on mi side is cheating, I would gladly call for and excluding vote).

Edited December 18, 2016 by Baldarhion

[Newyankalt]

Perhaps in 2 weeks.

 

 

They're all on holidays now.

[TrixxieTriss]

It's more complicated than doing something on the coding side. Most of cheat programs for MMO are based on data packets compromission between the server and the client. For the server side all seems OK : the packet are "signed" and legit.

 

Blizzard try to get rid of the problem by using a warding program (a kind of spyware that you allow to run when you sign the EULA) to check other program specific signature. But of course, the guys who code the cheatware update their programs accordingly :/

 

IP packets are cyphered by the client but IPV4 is really strict on packets size etc. So improving the security with this bias is complicated. And it would cost a lot on server side if packets were multiplied to improve security.

 

So no easy solution :/ The best that they could do is hiring people to monitor WZ. But you sure imagine that this would be really expensive.

 

I've seen how it's done and it's nothing harder than running a script in the games menu. It's not that hard to fix it so the script won't work.

 

Also cheatware doesn't really work in swtor, most cheating is script and memory editing.

[Baldarhion]

I've seen how it's done and it's nothing harder than running a script in the games menu. It's not that hard to fix it so the script won't work.

 

Also cheatware doesn't really work in swtor, most cheating is script and memory editing.

 

That's it : a program who is running in its own private space (= only the OS can get a grasp on it) and you can be sure that the bad guys update their crapware to avoid detection.

 

The most effective way is to bring to court the coders (Blizzard did that some years ago with success)

Edited December 18, 2016 by Baldarhion

[Psychopyro]

I doubt they'll do anything. Assuming it's the same person(s) who have been doing it for years... They pay for their account so they won't ban them...

[Keta]

It's more complicated than doing something on the coding side. Most of cheat programs for MMO are based on data packets compromission between the server and the client. For the server side all seems OK : the packet are "signed" and legit.

 

Blizzard try to get rid of the problem by using a warding program (a kind of spyware that you allow to run when you sign the EULA) to check other program specific signature. But of course, the guys who code the cheatware update their programs accordingly :/

 

IP packets are cyphered by the client but IPV4 is really strict on packets size etc. So improving the security with this bias is complicated. And it would cost a lot on server side if packets were multiplied to improve security.

 

So no easy solution :/ The best that they could do is hiring people to monitor WZ. But you sure imagine that this would be really expensive.

 

Sad fact is most of the time these ****** cheats leave no trace. No evidence to trace back the felony :/ At least they should improve the reporting system (= recording packets for further inquiry). A kick system would be nice and fair (I mean, if some guy on mi side is cheating, I would gladly call for and excluding vote).

 

This. Eliminating the hacking programs has the dream of every mmo ever. To do so though isn't easy and even if successful the results may be worse than you want and likely short lived. They need to just keep banning accounts in the meantime.

[Piepyr]

They can't even put a shirt on Jorgan in Chapter I. They also don't read the forums because, according to some, they have tender, tender feelings. Sorry to say but the game you have is the game you get.

[MollyDresden]

Can't you just /ignore the person when you see someone doing this? And maybe if you get into a WZ with a person doing it, point it out so other people /ignore them? And maybe if you see someone doing this, just leave the WZ rather than waste your time on a rigged match (maybe after posting to your group why you're leaving so they know you're not just flaking)?

 

I definitely think this should be fixed by the devs so people can't do it, but it seems like there are things you could do to minimize your own contact with such people.

[Baldarhion]

This. Eliminating the hacking programs has the dream of every mmo ever. To do so though isn't easy and even if successful the results may be worse than you want and likely short lived. They need to just keep banning accounts in the meantime.

 

Yep, numerous warding programs were reported by av software

 

Sometime, the simple is the better : they should manage to build a "report" button : press this button should take a screenshot with some useful datas (players coords recorded on the server side for a few seconds should be enough to proof the cheat (pondering by the lag of course )).

 

A vote function to expell a cheater (and records some stats to avoid abusing reports).

 

But I believe that a coding solution is way too complicated (and as an OS enthusiast user, I'm always doubtful when it comes to give admin permission to a warding program).

 

For the ban fold, Bioware should build a unique ID (hashing windows SN, computer ID, etc...) to avoid that cheaters recreate an account immediately after their ban since IP ban is really a joke

Edited December 18, 2016 by Baldarhion

[NakodaTheJedi]

Dear Eric,

 

yesterday I and many others had the (dis)pleasure of spending a whole day with a person doing the infamous flying hack in ranked arenas. This went for many warzones yesterday.

 

To those who do not know, open the spoiler for an explanation on how the hack looks like/works in more detail.

 

 

For a past example of how this hack looks like, click

)

The way it usually works is this: The person using the hack effectively overcomes the physical boundaries of the map and can hide out of the reach of the enemy players. That person is the only one left standing when the end of the arena (sudden death by acid) comes. Both his own team and the opposing team are left at that person's whim - sometimes he /stuck-s and lets the actual winning team win, other times not. On every map the person can hide at a different place - on Corellia Square he can go outside of the force field, i.e. outside of the square. On Tatooine Canyon he would stand on top of one of the huts. On Orbital station he would

return to the spawning area. In unranked warzones, he might come out quickly and plant the bomb on Voidstar etc. etc.

 

 

 

Eric, I am afraid that the previous answer of "report them using the in-game ticket system or send me evidence per email" is not enough anymore. We have been here before, many times, over many years, and things have not changed. We have posted screenshots. We have recorded videos. We have issued many many reports, posted on forums etc. You name it, we have done *all* to make this problem known.

 

Yet, this is still happening and I believe it is time to give us an update & explanation on what is going wrong and why hasn't the possibility for this exploit been closed yet?

 

I would like to set something straight here, which I think that has been misunderstood by you so far: The problem is not the individual. For the record - I do trust you when you say that BW takes some action (after some time) and ban the person using the hack or exploit. But the problem is that he can easily share this information with others. The problem is that your developer colleagues have not yet closed/fixed the program code that allows this.

Please do tell us:

 

 

1. What exactly does that person do to overcome the physical boundaries of the maps? Is the person manipulating the game files? Changing the client somehow? Has he found a combination of actions that allow him to fly? Is it something else?
   
2. How do your colleagues from the development team plan to address that?
   
3. In what timeline do they plan to address that - within the next patch, within the next two patches etc?
   

 

Eric, you are a professional working in customer care. We all know from Customer Care 101 that it is vital to give an update and explain to your customers why a certain problem persists and why has it not been fixed yet, to give an outline of a plan detailing what steps you will take to solve it and so on. Otherwise, you are just alienating your customer base. It has spillover effects as well - what does it say for the image of a company if they cannot close one such evident exploit for years?

 

You guys did a good job in the last developers stream to address our questions and offer solutions. I genuinely felt that you do care about what we think & feel about this great game of ours. I am appealing to your good side now - please do comment and give us an update on the two points that I have outlined above.

 

I posted the same topic on swtor reddit - in case someone who is not subbed reads this and wants to comment there.

 

 

Thank you.

 

they are so out of touch...

[dr_mike]

I doubt they'll do anything. Assuming it's the same person(s) who have been doing it for years... They pay for their account so they won't ban them...

 

They've booted paying customers before.

 

https://battlechicken.wordpress.com/2012/06/16/swtor-my-unexplained-ban-a-cautionary-tale/

 

Of course that was years ago when there were more of them around.

 

Sometime, the simple is the better : they should manage to build a "report" button : press this button should take a screenshot with some useful datas (players coords recorded on the server side for a few seconds should be enough to proof the cheat (pondering by the lag of course )).

 

They'd be flooded with false reports. We went through this with the squelching.

 

http://dulfy.net/2016/03/21/swtor-bioware-on-squelch-abuse/

Edited December 18, 2016 by dr_mike

[Glower]

How many years... 4-5 years of hacking? That dude must be crazy.

 

 

To the Op - don't get your hopes up.

[Sith-Viscera]

Yup i too had the pleasure of being hacked by the guy flying around in that video there. When My fellow team mates were talking about it, i didnt see any thing odd til after i was dead then i could observe what they was talking about. If this is gonna become a game easy enough to hack all the time now, it wont take me long to say goodbye. I hope it does not come to that. Please BW get on this and put a stop too it, ASAP.

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

Take Care and Be well.....

[Alec_Fortescue]

they're actually hacking on tre right now...

[TrixxieTriss]

That's it : a program who is running in its own private space (= only the OS can get a grasp on it) and you can be sure that the bad guys update their crapware to avoid detection.

 

The most effective way is to bring to court the coders (Blizzard did that some years ago with success)

 

The games pvp troll hacker has just posted the script on the pvp forum. DONT click his link, it's got malware. But the coding seems ledgitmate. Plus you will get caught if you use it as it is. It's why he posted it because half of his 10+ accounts are being banned as we speak. He wants other to use it and get banned.

Edited December 19, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

How many years... 4-5 years of hacking? That dude must be crazy.

 

 

To the Op - don't get your hopes up.

 

He is crazy. Currently there is a thread in the pvp section that he started on one of his many paid accounts (must be over 10 since the beginning of this year) where he is having an arguement with himself between two of his accounts.

That should give you some insight on his mental state.

[TUXs]

He is crazy. Currently there is a thread in the pvp section that he started on one of his many paid accounts (must be over 10 since the beginning of this year) where he is having an arguement with himself between two of his accounts.

That should give you some insight on his mental state.

We disagree on his mental state...he's trying to draw attention, that's it.

 

He doesn't do this because he's mental - he does it to force change. You can view him as an evil person, but I'd much rather have a hacker like him who openly demonstrates EXACTLY what he's doing, than some jackhole who hides it.

[DirtyDiggler]

the whole cheating like crazy stuff is about to make me quit. No MMO should have this much open cheating without a response from DEVS....

[Zasszz]

Keep spreading the hack. At some point too many people will use it and the devs will have to adress it.

[TUXs]

the whole cheating like crazy stuff is about to make me quit. No MMO should have this much open cheating without a response from DEVS....

They've never taken it seriously here.

[Glower]

We disagree on his mental state...he's trying to draw attention, that's it.

 

He doesn't do this because he's mental - he does it to force change. You can view him as an evil person, but I'd much rather have a hacker like him who openly demonstrates EXACTLY what he's doing, than some jackhole who hides it.

 

It is clear that Bio does not care about hacks and/or this person in SWTOR, so at the moment he only promotes hacking in SWTOR which is not good at all. That's all.

 

Who knows how many subtle hackers he inspired who are hiding from us with all these class changes (speed buffs, invulnerability, teleports etc) between 3.0-5.0...