DisIzMe Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 The game shouldn't be free at end game. Sorry. They are tuning the GC system to give people some more control over it. The end game shouldnt be free ....but only if end game keeps getting new content. Demanding subscription for access to EV is beyond ridiculous,especially in casual story oriented game that you keep repeating SWTOR is now. Because it sounds like trying to get money mainly from people who are no longer target audience - and it is not only morally questionable,but also plain out stupid. "Hey this game is no longer for you,but you need to pay subscription to access 5 year old content.Oh,did we mention that this game is not for you? We did,didnt we. But you must pay subscription nevertheless. Cause its End Game tm! We are story oriented game now,btw. We target mainly story players. They are our target audience,our main source of income. Thats why they can sub for 1 month per year and get access to all story content they like. Its smart business model. We iz smart! Buy cp boosters so you faster get gear for faceroll story content,please. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayshuba Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I would have voted for GW2 without even thinking twice. I'm sure many others did too. I almost agree. I think the best business model is a tie between GW2 and TSW. They each have different subtleties, but together they definitely have the better business models. Without a doubt, this game has always had the worst. Which I never understood because the CM Crates seem to make a lot of money for BW, wouldn't you want to have as many people exposed to buying those crates as possible? Now, with 5.0, the GC system basically has told F2P/Preferred to go home, we don't want you anymore. It's sad really, this is an IP and title that could have rivaled WoW, but it has been so mismanaged and misguided since before launch that it never has achieved the greatness you know it could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Star Wars The Old Republic (70%, 1,333 Votes) " lol, indeed no surprise. well, if they get our money, they will never change... But if they don't get our money, they'll close. It's a vicious cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisIzMe Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 But if they don't get our money, they'll close. It's a vicious cycle. If that worries you more than it worries people who supposedly should be interested in getting our money,there is something very wrong with this relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Hardly surprising. Add a korean grind as endgame, make it sub only, add cash shop boosters - the only thing missing is direct selling the gear in CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 If that worries you more than it worries people who supposedly should be interested in getting our money,there is something very wrong with this relationship. ;c _____ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayshuba Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I would have voted for GW2 without even thinking twice. I'm sure many others did too. I almost agree. I think the best business model is a tie between GW2 and TSW. They each have different subtleties, but together they definitely have the better business models. Without a doubt, this game has always had the worst. Which I never understood because the CM Crates seem to make a lot of money for BW, wouldn't you want to have as many people exposed to buying those crates as possible? Now, with 5.0, the GC system basically has told F2P/Preferred to go home, we don't want you anymore. It's sad really, this is an IP and title that could have rivaled WoW, but it has been so mismanaged and misguided since before launch that it never has achieved the greatness you know it could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhedzaban Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Personally I would have voted Archeage, the most p2w game I've ever seen and the restrictions on f2p are far far worse than swtor. Half the game with Archeage is owning land and crafting, which is only available to subscribers. I agree with one of the comments on that website, swtor seems to get a lot of unfair hate and its mostly from the former swg crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeristash Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) " (@Sypster, blog): Sub-or-suffer: SWTOR’s decision to strongly punish players who don’t subscribe by denying them any endgame gear with the newest expansion is repellant in more way than one." ^ Oh noes the devs are simply monsters for not giving me access to elite gear just because I don't pay for a sub to help keep the servers I'm playing on up or show the developers my appreciation for their work! Waaah Waaah Waaah Waaah It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. This is a business not a charity. The fact that they're propagating this nauseating unfounded entitlement as proof of swtor having a poor business model proves their pitiful award can be safely ignored like the ants under ones boot. Hardly a wonder why these yellow journalist are never invited for any exclusive reviews. Just looking at all the reasons why they listed these games on their list just goes to show this is little more than a poor mans smudge campaign. F2p contribute nothing and thus they should complain about nothing. They're privileged that they're even allowed to grace any server space. Edited December 17, 2016 by Aeristash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zasszz Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 But if they don't get our money, they'll close. It's a vicious cycle. If they dont deliver better content, I leave, they will close too. A successful business model is determined by the amount of people who are motivated to pay for new things especially the long time loyal customers. If they dont deliver new things, maybe the game is doomed and we just dont like to admit it. And the way things look they either intentionally ruin the game or they are incompetent and cant see it because of it. What was wrong the the original subscription model without F2P? Players didnt like it and left because they had to pay to play. Or maybe they have done everything and didnt see a reason to stay. Now the same people didnt come back because of the F2P. They still require to pay to play the new content which stops after about a day, two at most. When you have done and seen everything, the game doesnt offer anything after finishing the story. This isnt a model failure, it always comes down to the lack of things to do that encourage a subscription. This is devs ruining a game with bad ideas. EA greed does the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhedzaban Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 " (@Sypster, blog): Sub-or-suffer: SWTOR’s decision to strongly punish players who don’t subscribe by denying them any endgame gear with the newest expansion is repellant in more way than one." ^ Oh noes the devs are simply monsters for not giving me access to elite gear just because I don't pay for a sub to help keep the servers I'm playing on up or show the developers my appreciation for their work! Waaah Waaah Waaah Waaah It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. This is a business not a charity. The fact that they're propagating this nauseating unfounded entitlement as proof of swtor having a poor business model proves their pitiful award can be safely ignored like the ants under ones boot. Hardly a wonder why these yellow journalist are never invited for any exclusive reviews. Just looking at all the reasons why they listed these games on their list just goes to show this is little more than a poor mans smudge campaign. F2p contribute nothing and thus they should complain about nothing. They're privileged that they're even allowed to grace any server space. Yep well said. What do people want for nothing these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisIzMe Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Yep well said. What do people want for nothing these days? Apparently some people want other people to pay them monthly fee for nothing. This is why their business model received this prestigious award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nalier Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 True it was on sale on steam but whoever had the original ESO copy from there website could not get the steam value unless they bought the entire game again on a whole new different account as well. I have the original copy. They made a big Crown sale at the same time as Steam and you could get very good discounts in their store as well. I would have voted ESO for the best business model, but decided not to, because of the crown crates they introduced recently. And what SWTOR taught me - I hate gamble boxes with passion. And I completely agree that SWTOR's business model is extremely bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_mike Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Sorry, I'm running behind. It only has tons of votes because the reddit sub linked to it. Take 2 seconds for any one of the other reddit subs to drop a link and get the same result. Hmmm, don't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 It's not about it breaking any rules in place, but it's kind of a defamation and an embarrassment. why would you want this on your forums of your own game? Ah now, this'll get moved to "off-topic", we know how the mods work on our subscriber only forums. The question that should be asked is, "Why would BioWare move a topic about it's business model being voted as the worst, being discussed by it's subscribers in the General Discussion forum?". If the subscribers deem the business model as not okay (and I'm not okay with the latest changes to locking f2p / pref. players out of the endgame completely), why shouldn't BioWare be taking note and listening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Ah now, this'll get moved to "off-topic", we know how the mods work on our subscriber only forums. The question that should be asked is, "Why would BioWare move a topic about it's business model being voted as the worst, being discussed by it's subscribers in the General Discussion forum?". If the subscribers deem the business model as not okay (and I'm not okay with the latest changes to locking f2p / pref. players out of the endgame completely), why shouldn't BioWare be taking note and listening? Those are some great questions for Bioware, I'm not them. As it's weekend there probably isn't going to be any moderation and this thread will probably calm down, come Monday. So maybe it'll get overlooked. /shrugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_mike Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Made #9 for healthiest - http://massivelyop.com/2016/12/08/perfect-ten-the-healthiest-live-mmorpgs-at-the-end-of-2016/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychopyro Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) I have the original copy. They made a big Crown sale at the same time as Steam and you could get very good discounts in their store as well. I would have voted ESO for the best business model, but decided not to, because of the crown crates they introduced recently. And what SWTOR taught me - I hate gamble boxes with passion. And I completely agree that SWTOR's business model is extremely bad. Actually I think the gamble boxes are great, in the right system... As was pointed out earlier, STO has really no restrictions. You can play that game and never sub, and never spend a dime. You'd barely notice any difference if you did sub for one month. But they make a ton of money on those lockbox keys. It seems like here, they made (one of) the most restrictive F2P model possible, then took what made the most money for other games and added it to their model without taking into account the reason why those ideas work with those other games... EDIT: I probably buy about $20 in keys every month one way or the other... Either grinding out dilithium for zen, or using in game credits to buy the keys on the AH. You can say "Well you don't buy them"... Well someone pays the money so I can buy them, so yea in a way I do pay the $20, I just have to work harder in game for it... Edited December 17, 2016 by Psychopyro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinler Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 It's almost like the business model has broken end-game content by placing the coveted items in the cash shop instead of rewarding actual gameplay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasmaJohn Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) I would have MUCH preferred it if SWTOR had a buy to play, buy individual content packs model (which is incidentlaly also the model that TSW uses) than what we have right now. B2P w/DLC is the the most player friendly business model IMO. It places the financial incentive on the developers to produce content and systems that the players are willing to pay for. Subs... well can hope they get it right but GC certain should disabuse anybody of that notion. -- SW:TOR's F2P implementation is completely backwards: Get the story for a one-time payment and pay a toll for ossified end-game activities on top of treating the non-subs as toxic waste. The F2P concept evolved as content for the paying players. The free players give the paying players other folks to fill their queues and teams. The way you convert non-subs to subs is to make subbing attractive instead of making not subbing horrific. By doing the latter you make the game look terrible. TOR's F2P model should be: Buy a bunch of one-time unlocks (artifact auth, market slots, credit cap removal, etc.), pay for each new tier of content, gain unlimited access to that content. The traditional limits vs. a sub are reduced currency rates. Subs should be getting $15 worth of CC's IMO the focus on subscriber numbers is short-sighted. I get that EA's folks might not be as plugged into how the MMO market has changed as say NCSoft but that's something that I think they can figure out. -- Why didn't Wildstar get a mention? Simple, their business model is awesome. No credit caps, total access to end-game, minimal cost to unlock certain social features, an in game market to trade gold for subscription time. They're struggling for many of the same reasons that SW:TOR is: Very little new content. A decimated development team. Almost total radio silence. Edited December 17, 2016 by PlasmaJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolvy Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) Deleted Edited December 17, 2016 by wolvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omaan Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Iam not surprised swtor's business model was voted as the worst one. Also don't forget that now it has elements of buy to win model because of command xp boosts appeared in cartel market so its getting even worse... i start to think that the whole this idea with looooong gear grind was realized just for implementing cxp boost and earning more money for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Hah! OP was right... they've moved this into Off Topic to try to make the article go away. How childish of the EAWare forum team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allca Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 They are right... Their F2P model is one of, if not the, most restrictive of all of them.... At least of the big games. SWTOR, minimal hotbars, no access to all content, no access to end game, reduced XP, content limits (PvP), credit caps, etc... The only annoying thing here you can buy out of is quickslots... Everything else is either sub or piss off... I can live with restrictions to F2P, I'm more worried about preferred status! All the unlocks you can buy: quickbar, show titles, artifact equipment ect. End of the day you might have bought the game 5 times!? My question is, are preferred gamers restricted from PVP and Operation? I mean, it is sort of ok if you are not rewared with gear. But I don't wanna be locked out from doing PVP and Operations? Can someone give me an answer on this:rak_02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) I can live with restrictions to F2P, I'm more worried about preferred status! All the unlocks you can buy: quickbar, show titles, artifact equipment ect. End of the day you might have bought the game 5 times!? My question is, are preferred gamers restricted from PVP and Operation? I mean, it is sort of ok if you are not rewared with gear. But I don't wanna be locked out from doing PVP and Operations? Can someone give me an answer on this:rak_02: you cannot do operations at all. you can do I think 5 warzones per week? no ranked at all. I'm not sure why not being rewarded with gear is ok... since you kinda need gear to progress, but... ok O_O Edited December 17, 2016 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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