.. and the award for Worst MMO Business Model in 2016 goes to ...

[TrixxieTriss]

Hadn't seen this posted so ...

 

http://massivelyop.com/2016/12/16/massively-ops-best-of-2016-awards-worst-mmo-business-model-2016/

 

Anyone surprised? I'm not.

 

WoW, what a huge difference between 1st and 2nd. It's obvious player satisfaction is low when you see a result like that.

 

I'm also not surprised 😢

[Dweessies]

It's not about it breaking any rules in place, but it's kind of a defamation and an embarrassment. why would you want this on your forums of your own game?

Not that players being unhappy with the current business model is unhead of, but things like this make it seem worse.

it'll get even more attention and more votes this way.

 

Not that I particulary care, I really don't. But if this was my game, I wouldn't want something from an external website on my forums that makes me look bad or worse.

 

True, if I owned SWTOR I wouldn't want this on my forums. So they can either remove it or just maybe they could do something about the conditions that are giving them this terribad reputation.

 

Anyone who's been around for longer than 1 expansion knows which way EA will go.

[Psychopyro]

You do get orange shells via GC now ( no vendors have any anymore? ) but yeah its RNG which is pretty stupid.

There is an orange shell vendor on the fleet that sells like 12 different sets. You can also still get the rep shells from their respective vendors, and alliance crates also drop orange shells. Also some sets still drop open world. I just got an empty inquisitor chest on Balmorra I think...

 

it will be funny when swtor dies and ends up having a shorter life than SWG's.

Remember though they shut down SWG because LA did not want to support 2 Star Wars MMOs....

Edited December 17, 2016 by Psychopyro

[AshenK]

it will be funny when swtor dies and ends up having a shorter life than SWG's.

it will at this point

 

whats funny is if $OE had fixed swg back in the pre-cu? it would still be going strong today.

[Psychopyro]

it will at this point

 

whats funny is if $OE had fixed swg back in the pre-cu? it would still be going strong today.

No, it was hemorrhaging subs badly. A lot of people like to spout this line, but it has no basis in fact. It was well stated that the game had lots of problems that needed to be addressed.

 

While I enjoyed the game, I don't tend to filter it thru rose colored glasses like a lot of people do. Pre CU was not sustainable due to poor choices made at launch. It literally was a victim of itself.

[Jeweledleah]

True it was on sale on steam but whoever had the original ESO copy from there website could not get the steam value unless they bought the entire game again on a whole new different account as well.

 

no, but you could buy crowns on sale for about $24 (and those crown sales seem to happen fairly often, there was certainly one going on during free weekend) and buy 4 dlc pack with them.

 

I honestly prefer to subscribe in ESO for the crafting bag and the fact that monthly crown grant is the same as if you just bought $15 worth of crowns when not on sale - its VERY convenient, but the game is far FAR more playable without subscription that swtor. in that... its actualy fully playable.

 

I would have MUCH preferred it if SWTOR had a buy to play, buy individual content packs model (which is incidentlaly also the model that TSW uses) than what we have right now.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If you think a game's design is literally the same thing as the game's business model, I can't help you. You are mentally jumping through hoops that I just won't follow you through. .

 

In other words all you have is ad hominem and not something to actually refute the point I made?

 

The business model is about how the game makes money, not about the content itself

 

And you don't think design decisions such as GC are important to how the game makes money? Ok then ...

 

 

As close as I could get to agreeing with you would be to agree that content release schedule and what sort of content gets done is part of it. But in this particular case, the game has been this way for basically ~2 years now. So why would people suddenly freak out if they got exactly what they expected?

 

We got exactly what we expected in 2016? Whilst I'm sure we expected chapters BWA never once went on to say "no more ops, no more dailies, no more flashpoints etc. this year" so there was always the part that people eheld out hope the next stream etc. would be the one they drop the big "here it is bomb" especially on the back of Ben's open letter which was nothing but blowing smoke up the communities *** imo.

 

 

Thus it's not at all what people are freaking out about currently. Some people are freaking out now because they hate the CXP grind.

 

Again where was CXP mentioned outside of the comments on that page?

 

 

My point is that people are raging about everything now, because they are angry about something in particular, but most of them can't stop raging long enough to figure out what is actually making them rage. That something is grind, not the cash shop.

 

People have always raged about the cash shop. To some it's a horrible model, to others it's great. I personally don't mind it but would never spend a dime on it. I do make lots of credits from it so I can buy more items from it. For example 3 hypercrates today and thinking "wow I feel sorry for anyone who actually buys these things and opens them hoping to get an item".

 

However to be fair I think the CM is probably the smartest part of the entire swtor business model however it can reach a point where instead of being a boon to your game it can become a detriment which is becoming the case now for the reasons I previously outlined.

 

This game is the best 'virtual action figures' MMO there is, period. Nothing comes close. Tons of alts, tons of gear.

 

In your opinion.

 

There are literally only a tiny tiny few gear items that end up extremely unaffordable to most players. Everything else is widely available. Every time a pack goes on sale, pack item prices crash and you can get gold armor sets for under a million

 

This seems to be very subjective and entire gold armor sets for under 1 million reeks of hyperbole though it could technically be true for some of the less popular gold items but it's rare now to get an entire set for under 1 million.

 

As to what is affordable and affordable is the subjective part - things such as time invested in the game doing the grindy activities to earn credits, how long you've been playing, server you play on and what the item is all need to be considered there.

Before I could offer up example of what could be considered affordable I would need to know what you consider affordable? Personally I can afford anything in game and probably could do so forever but that doesn't mean I find items necessarily affordable.

 

To be fair also I wouldn't solely blame the cash shop for the games vanity economy. The way they handled exploits, gold farmers, gold sellers and gold buyers is far more to blame imo. The economy was quite stable and "affordable" for all before the exploits and "easy mode farming" of 4.0 came along.

 

I guess you need to consider that also with this year. Any money printing exploits and how they handled them and how long they left easy botting of TH and Slicing have to be considered as part of their "business model" as it was their choice to leave these things how they were for so long. Exploits not so much except where they ignored fixing them for such extended periods of time but certainly not truly part of a business model per se as no one plans on having exploits but they should certainly have some decent DR in place for when they occur.

 

So yes, I'm completely fine with saying that the cash shop is the dumbest thing to be raging about right now.

 

Yet that's the only part of the MOP "article" you picked out to target for some reason and then chose to equate that to "CXP rage".

 

 

First of all though, I'm definitely right that people are raging right now. I think most would understand the difference when they calm down about it enough to talk about the issue without just raging again. For now they do not understand that the business model is not at all why they are currently raging.

 

How so? As pointed out a few times, that MOP article doesn't even touch on CXP as I see it. You just want to equate that they made their decision based on this. I outlined plenty of otherp oor business model reasons earlier in this thread - feel to counter those if you like but you need to drop this "people are only angry because of CXP and they really like everything else in the business model" act if you won't address the other issues directly.

 

 

SWTOR mostly has a good business model. -snip-

 

You realize that's all you've said so far right? Not justified why it's a good business model at all. Comparing it to your own subjective view of the FF14 model and actually offering up an entirely new way of doing the model isn't justifying why it's currently a good model.

 

In fact if you have to suggest new ideas to justify the current model you are actually helping prove the point that it's not a good model at all.

 

Overall though? Go look at corporate financial data if you want to see how much money SWTOR makes now. The business model is clearly doing very well.

 

Burden of proof is on you here and I wish you good luck showing us something solid in this area to back that statement as I know the last report noted a 1 million drop in sub revenue that this game was the largest offender and the previous report didn't mentioned the game what so ever but by all means - lets see your data.

 

 

Is everything perfect on the business side of things? No, of course not. The difference between FFXIV and SWTOR is that Square Enix owns itself and cares about it's brand value. Whereas EA owns Bioware and does not care about Bioware's brand value. Square Enix does not go cheap on content. EA sucks up the profit. Big difference. They could easily put a few more millions per year into SWTOR and do a better job about most of what people complain about, like lack of endgame content, which comes from EA forcing Bioware to make tough choices in the name of maximizing profits.

 

Still haven't justified anything good about the current business model - compared it to FF14 again and even went as far as to say how it could be done better...

 

 

Great example of how it effects things: pets. SE puts some time in to design pets. Most of them they don't even charge extra for. SWTOR only puts out miniature versions of already existing enemies, ships, etc. SE will go the extra mile for their aesthetic because it is brand value. Bioware doesn't have control over their aesthetic anymore and you can tell because they are compromising and changing a lot of what made Bioware Bioware in the first place.

 

Hmm now you seem to actually be implying BWA and this game to be inferior to what SE are doing ... this really isn't sounding like a very good attempt at the "challenge" yet ...

 

But that all is a difference in how the companies are run, not the business model. The 'business model' is not all things to do with business. And is any of that WHY people are raging now? No. Stuff like that may come up when they are raging, but it is not why they are raging now.

 

But you haven't actually said what is good about the business model nor even justified what you think the business model is beyond "its a sub model with F2p option". Yet again you equate the entire debate to your own perception of why people think this is a bad buisness model yet I clearly stated many other reasons of why 2016 was not a good business model ... care to address those and please explain what made 2016 a good business model as you've not done so.

 

 

This is a lot like the horrible internet rage over the Star Wars 'blame Lucas' prequals, a mini version really. The reason people are prone to rage about Star Wars in general is that people love Star Wars and everyone wants it the way they want it. They care about it, so they are more prone to rage about it -snip the etc.-.

 

Utterly subjective and nothing to do with the topic what so ever.

[fozika]

Well truth be told, of the MMOs I've played, it is the most restrictive, and blatant "subscribe or ****" model around.

 

And don't get me wrong, I am a subscriber and plan to stick around, but it's almost impossible to enjoy this game and not pay a subscription, unless you are a devoted solo player.

 

With the present model, you chase away the F2P's, who will invest time over money, and that while not generating predictable, steady revenue, they do give something for those who invest real money on the game, and that is population.

 

Heck even sprinting, or quickbars are restricted. But guess what, many folk who are not subscribed and dislike to, myself included, are eased into small easy one time only payments, that add up over time.

 

I have spent more money over the same time period on LOTRO, and STO, as a F2Per, than as a subscriber on SWTOR.

[LastBrood]

So SWTOR is my only MMO experience so I am pretty much ignorant of MMO business models, but having an indefinite access to all current available expansions with one sub seems like a really generous or something. Like I said I don't know if other MMOs do that but to me that's pretty great.

 

I almost never wear any cosmetics items but will be kinda great if the cash shop mostly have famous ones only, like items of other characters from movies or games. A lot of people complain that nothing in the game you can buy with credits is even close to Cartel, if they release 1 or 2 sets every month for in-game that might appease people.

 

F2P restriction is kinda very restrictive. The credits cap for F2P and Preferred is pretty severe, if they can ease that at least a little bit that will be great. People complain about passes, if they raise the credits cap and restore passes, Preferred can buy the passes from Subs who buy them from CM, that will be profits for BW, no?

 

Also the command system, being locked from preferred, that's kinda dumb IMO. As long as they fulfill the requirements of having access to KotET and being able to reach Lv70, commands should be unlocked to them. They can get less CXP than subs like the usual XP gains.

[Damedius]

People are complaining because the game is too restrictive in F2P mode. People will ***** about anything nowadays.

[Costello]

Doesn't really come as a surprise.

 

People wont play here for free cause its so bad, let alone the hyper inflation on the GTN means you probably can't buy much that is any good, not that you could equip it if you could.

 

The ESO system is by far the best, the perks and coins are worth the subscription, access to the new content is nice. But if you don't want to pay you can still play you just have to buy the DLCs.

 

Unfortunately nothing can change cause BW don't have the resources to offer sufficient new content to make any other model viable they need to make it so people pay just to have a workable experience not to have an enhanced experience cause there is no enhanced experience.

[Tadagyt]

STO, their only annoying restriction is the cap, which you can buy out of. Otherwise you can do everything a sub can do (shoot most of the PWE games are like this)

 

The restrictions in STO are not real restrictions in my opinion. With the amount of dilithium you can farm with all your toons, you can buy zen and get whatever you need by just farming. They even give you 2 free T6 ships (account unlock) per year (winter and summer events).

[Jeweledleah]

So SWTOR is my only MMO experience so I am pretty much ignorant of MMO business models, but having an indefinite access to all current available expansions with one sub seems like a really generous or something. Like I said I don't know if other MMOs do that but to me that's pretty great.

 

.

 

every other subscription optional MMO that I personaly have played - allows you acess to DLC as a subscriber. genuinely f2p games - give you expansions just for playing. buy to play games tend to charge you for DLC's however - they don't have monthly subscription at all and generaly cost of DLC's or expansions is around 3 months worth of subscription. the only games that require (as in - there is NO official f2p options) subscription to play AND charge you for expansions that I know of are World of Warcraft and Eve online. And both allow you to buy subscription with in game gold.

 

as far as f2p games go. SWTOR is the least generous out there. subscription optional games? still the least generous. because of all the downright petty restrictions they impose on non subscribers.

 

last but not least. SWTOR is also the game that tends to release the least amount of content especially for a game that just about requires subscription to play.

[Wolfgangpiffath]

Star Wars The Old Republic (70%, 1,333 Votes) "

 

 

lol, indeed no surprise.

well, if they get our money, they will never change...

[doelow]

Massively OP is a bunch of garbage players. Sorry. Apparently no one on that site has ever played Black Desert or ArcheAge long term either. Those games are are -actually- P2W. I'm... I'm just sorry... if you think this game is more greedy than those Korean imports... I don't even know what to tell you.

 

I mean, sure, you don't -HAVE- to buy in the shop for BDO and AA... unless you want to play the game for 72 hours a week -or- get farmed by spenders. Your choice. There is a reason those games had mass exoduses here in the West. Don't take that site to heart guys, it's just a bunch of malcontent scrubs who poo on every game and bloggers who don't make it past level 50.

[ekwalizer]

Makes sure you check the reader poll. The results aren't even close.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Massively OP is a bunch of garbage players. Sorry. Apparently no one on that site has ever played Black Desert or ArcheAge long term either. Those games are are -actually- P2W. I'm... I'm just sorry... if you think this game is more greedy than those Korean imports... I don't even know what to tell you.

 

I mean, sure, you don't -HAVE- to buy in the shop for BDO and AA... unless you want to play the game for 72 hours a week -or- get farmed by spenders. Your choice. There is a reason those games had mass exoduses here in the West. Don't take that site to heart guys, it's just a bunch of malcontent scrubs who poo on every game and bloggers who don't make it past level 50.

 

Yet you have to PAY to get end game gear in this game to be competitive at PVP not to mention the boost they introduced ideally allowing people to PAY to get gear faster than those that don't PAY for the boost. Yeah this game is fast heading in that direction.

 

Also just to counter your nonsense point of "bunch of malcontent scrubs who poo on every game:

 

http://massivelyop.com/tag/mop-2016-awards/

 

The entire awards concept was originally positive but due to feedback decided to add a "worst business model award". I'm sorry they revealed some painful truths to you in regards to the direction BWA is taking this game but we actually need this sort of thing to spread around in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, BWA will turn it around for us.

 

Unlikely but possible.

[doelow]

Yet you have to PAY to get end game gear in this game to be competitive at PVP not to mention the boost they introduced ideally allowing people to PAY to get gear faster than those that don't PAY for the boost. Yeah this game is fast heading in that direction.

 

Also just to counter your nonsense point of "bunch of malcontent scrubs who poo on every game:

 

http://massivelyop.com/tag/mop-2016-awards/

 

The entire awards concept was originally positive but due to feedback decided to add a "worst business model award". I'm sorry they revealed some painful truths to you in regards to the direction BWA is taking this game but we actually need this sort of thing to spread around in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, BWA will turn it around for us.

 

Unlikely but possible.

 

The game shouldn't be free at end game. Sorry. They are tuning the GC system to give people some more control over it.

 

Have fun getting that kind of feedback from Trino and Kakau thought. Delusional. People who have never experienced being farmed by whales can run their mouth all day. It's not fun. There are worse business models out there than TOR, a casual game by any and all respects.

[Damedius]

How dare EA Bioware charge money for the full experience. Everything in life should be free. Why is this world so unjust? KHAAAAAN! Edited December 17, 2016 by Damedius

[AscendingSky]

The game shouldn't be free at end game. Sorry. They are tuning the GC system to give people some more control over it.

 

I can agree with you that endgame shouldn't be totally free. However, I think EAWare are kind of shooting themselves in the foot by getting rid of weekly passes that let F2P/Preferred people do endgame content. I know a lot of people who would buy those passes for their less well off financially friends so they could come with them on ops runs. Now that's impossible, and it seems to me like taking that option away would just reduce EAWare's potential revenue stream.

Edited December 17, 2016 by AscendingSky

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The game shouldn't be free at end game. Sorry. They are tuning the GC system to give people some more control over it.

 

What does the tunings coming to GC have anything to do with what I just said around P2W? Oh right, nothing. You're just replying for the sake of it.

 

Have fun getting that kind of feedback from Trino and Kakau thought. Delusional. People who have never experienced being farmed by whales can run their mouth all day. It's not fun. There are worse business models out there than TOR, a casual game by any and all respects.

 

Words ... try actually offering up something in the form of an argument next time.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I can agree with you that endgame shouldn't be totally free. However, I think EAWare are kind of shooting themselves in the foot by getting rid of weekly passes that let F2P/Preferred people do endgame content. I know a lot of people who would buy those passes for their less well off financially friends so they could come with them on ops runs. Now that's impossible, and it seems to me like taking that option away would just reduce EAWare's potential revenue stream.

 

It wasn't free before either. Someone had to buy passes at some point for the non subs to use. If the issue was the referral CC buying passes they should have looked into that instead of removing passes altogether.

 

I wonder how long until the passes or an equivalent come back because it seems desperation is kicking in with a "double cartel coin" referral program currently in effect with a bonus 500 CC to the refereed player.

[StupidWiz]

They are right... Their F2P model is one of, if not the, most restrictive of all of them.... At least of the big games anyways...

I've noticed that years ago. Since then, I've always been seeing it as P2P, not F2P.

[lobete]

I think their biggest marketing mistake was marketing the payment model change around the term "FTP." They game feels more like a sub game that has a really amazing free-trial system and if they had stuck to that description right out the gate, probably wouldn't have been a big deal.

 

Not that massively would care if they are calling games like Pokemon Go, ARK: Survival Evolved and Landmark MMOs.

[ekwalizer]

It's not about it breaking any rules in place, but it's kind of a defamation and an embarrassment. why would you want this on your forums of your own game?

Not that players being unhappy with the current business model is unhead of, but things like this make it seem worse.

it'll get even more attention and more votes this way.

 

Not that I particulary care, I really don't. But if this was my game, I wouldn't want something from an external website on my forums that makes me look bad or worse.

 

Good.

 

A little history lesson. SWG fans decried the NGE, SOE chose not to listen. Their game never recovered.

 

If EA/Bioware choose to make the same mistake then this game deserves to die so that another might take its place .... with a more competent studio.