Devs You MESSED up this MMO even MORE with TOKEN SYSTEM!

[Costello]

The new system was to allow players (i.e. all players) to work towards a specific piece of gear.

 

Instead it requires raids (the few that remain despite no new raids) to get some gear and have to then grind out the command tokens. So you have to beat the hardest content in the game and then grind out tokens.

 

It does work for PvP, you can be utterly useless loss every match but as long as you pick up some participation medals, this may lead to the raids and the decent PvPers feel is a little unfair but the system works here. Participation = best gear in the game. This should not be confused with the hardest content gets you the best gear in the game, winning ranked PvP would be that.

 

What it doesn't allow is any other play style to work towards a specific piece of gear. So anyone that doesn't enjoy those two style of play (so Uprisings, Flashpoints, Heroics, Story, GSF) is in the same place they were before. Which makes it a little hypocritical for anyone that was unhappy with the previous RNG system to say you have to right to be unhappy with the new system.

 

The system should allow any that participates in Galactic command to work towards specific pieces as the whole point of this system was to allow people to play their way and gear up. To be putting in an additional gearing system for certain play styles after a month because the current one wasn't working but to ignore 5 other aspects of Galactic Command as if that was working is perplexing.

[Alssaran]

Yep, I can blame you for that. You get a way to get the same gear and even better (legendary) in GC and you begrudge people who actually beat challenging content for being rewarded for that.

 

Pretty much.

 

Doing the most challenging content in a group should be rewarded with the best gear. That gear should be a guarantee for doing said content. Compared to 4.0, the average story casual player now has a chance at getting that gear. He doesn't need that gear though, and he is not doing any challenging or demanding content. He shouldn't receive the rewards just as quickly as someone downing the most challenging and extreme content in the game.

 

GSF

 

And would you please explain to me why someone who only does GSF needs any kind of character focused gear at all? Or why it is a bad thing that someone who plays GSF can't acquire gear that's completely obsolete to his game mode as quickly as someone who desperately needs that gear to progress?

 

You don't need that gear. You're not locked out of anything. You're not gated out of any progression. You can still slowly work to receiving these gear upgrades.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Alssaran

[AscendingSky]

Come back to us when you don't get solo content for 2+ years

 

This, this, this, a million times this. Solo players have been getting catered to for the last two 'expansions', I really don't want to hear any whining about how endgame players finally got thrown a tiny bone.

[DarthSpuds]

Doing the most challenging content in a group should be rewarded with the best gear. That gear should be a guarantee for doing said content. C

 

So should Tier X rewards be guaranteed for doing Tier X content right through the different difficulty tiers?

 

Or just on that hardest tier?

 

Because I'm pretty sure that when Casuals want guaranteed appropriate rewards for doing their content they get called "entitled".

 

All The Best

[eriksarcasm]

Pretty much.

 

Doing the most challenging content in a group should be rewarded with the best gear. That gear should be a guarantee for doing said content. Compared to 4.0, the average story casual player now has a chance at getting that gear. He doesn't need that gear though, and he is not doing any challenging or demanding content. He shouldn't receive the rewards just as quickly as someone downing the most challenging and extreme content in the game.

 

Agreed, and I'm glad you added the caveat I highlighted.

 

And would you please explain to me why someone who only does GSF needs any kind of character focused gear at all? Or why it is a bad thing that someone who plays GSF can't acquire gear that's completely obsolete to his game mode as quickly as someone who desperately needs that gear to progress?

 

You don't need that gear. You're not locked out of anything. You're not gated out of any progression. You can still slowly work to receiving these gear upgrades.

 

It's about getting more people to queue for GSF. It can be a fun game mode when more rookies and less aces are around. Increasing rewards for GSF encourages more people to play, which is really all most of us who enjoy it want out of life. I'll queue up if it helps me get gear for other modes faster. But I'm in the minority because I dabble in a little of everything.

[Darthanimus]

I have a premonition. When 5.1 comes out you [swtor devs] will face the full force of the community's fury. PvEers will be arguing saying PvPers have gearing easy, and visa versa. no one will be satisfied, essentially it is the same end point and different routes to get there. You [swtor devs] will be creating more problems for yourselves in the future if you carry on down this route. So here is my suggestion to fix all this mess.

 

Keep crates for non-set bonus stuff (mk-1s, mk-2s, implants, ears, relics, weapons, comp gifts, reputation, and schematics) all random drops. In addition tokens drop, use the tokens to buy set bonus gear (tier one, two, and three) from vendors. All this complicated multi step nonsense is really annoying and messy. Just keep it simple.

 

Tokens should be legacy.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Darthanimus

[Alssaran]

So should Tier X rewards be guaranteed for doing Tier X content right through the different difficulty tiers?

 

Yes. This is how it has always been handled. Rewarding guaranteed gear throughout the difficulty levels actually creates a sense of gear progression throughout the different operation difficulties. This is true for crafting, operations and warzones. Non-set bonus purples can be added to flashpoints. However, the crafting materials you gain from almost any lockbox now are actually a good way to make up for the missing purples.

 

Because I'm pretty sure that when Casuals want guaranteed appropriate rewards for doing their content they get called "entitled".

 

That's not the case. At least not if you actually take my argument for what it was, and not to construct your own "argument" so you can point out something that isn't even there.

 

Casual players are called "entitled" (or whatever you want to claim) when they demand guaranteed gear that is not an appropriate reward for their content type, and they want said gear as quickly as someone who does the more difficult content. Commanding, organizing and supplying a group of eight to sixteen people is an additional step, and that should be rewarded aswell.

 

Let me put a scenario to you that should make abudantly clear what people refer to when they say "casuals are entitled" (whoever said that):

 

Casual A is only doing the easy story content. He's logging into the game and not communicating with any other player whatsoever. He logs into the game, starts two or three story difficulty chapters, and then he logs out again. Said person can get a way to obtain higher end gear/BiS gear, but that doesn't mean he should have guaranteed set bonus/BiS gear drops or safeguards because he simply isn't doing challenging content. If he is mindlessly farming CZ-198 while streaming Netflix on his second screen, that casual shouldn't expect to gain BiS/purple gear as quickly as someone who raids two nights a week with a dedicated raid group for four hours each night. That person is not just mindlessly hitting mobs, but he is also coordinating a group, dealing with difficult mechanics and trying to down harder and harder content. Said person should be rewarded for that additional work.

 

You do have a mechanic to get BiS gear for doing barely any challenging content at all. The fact that you have said chance doesn't mean that you should be guaranteed a piece of exceptional gear for mindlessly hitting mobs on CZ-198. You are not putting in as much effort as the person who is raiding a NiM operation.

 

The next crux of your issue is in the specific wording of your question - appropriate.

 

We could argue about the definition of "appropriate" for content and gear ad infinitum, but we'd never reach a consensus among a dozen different players. Appropriate guaranteed gear is directly tied to the content you're doing. If you only mindlessly run heroics on a remote planet without the slightest chance to actually die or mess up, then anything above simple 228 purple gear (baseline purple) is inappropriate loot. Just like rewarding NiM with only purple or tier 1 gear (due to Command Rank restrictions in the current system) would be equally inappropriate for the content.

 

The word "entitled" is used when casuals scream to gain inappropriate gear for the content they are running. And, yes, I would consider getting guaranteed 242 NiM set gear for running heroics inapproriate at about every turn. You already have guaranteed purple gear for running said content - you can use the credits/materials to craft better mods and enhancements. The only thing your gear is lacking is set armourings.

 

The idea that you get a chance at BiS gear whenever you're dinging a GC level without ever stepping into any difficult content down the line is very appropriate gear for what you're doing.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Alssaran

[Darthanimus]

In addition I would like to say command xp takes too long to achieve.

 

P.S. On a lighter note, uprisings are a triumph, and no expertise stat is brilliant.

[BaineOs]

They didn't mess it up even more with the token system, it is better than the original insane system.

 

Having said that, it's still not enough. They can keep the crate system in, that's not a problem. But get rid of absolutely any requirement to get endgame gear from it. Reintroduce the com system even if it's with these unassembled gear things, and keep the crate system as a nice little bonus.

 

As it always should have been. Not interested in galactic command being the main way to get gear and never will be. Not enough for me to resub one of my two accounts never mind both of them. Must have about 10 days left and have to say, since I cancelled my subs.....haven't for a second regretted it.

[Chopsaki]

Bio doing what it does best

turning a toxic community on its self

as people justify the small gains

while putting others down

[Quraswren]

Yup. Solo players get to keep doing exactly what they've been doing, which for them is an improvement over 4.0, as in 4.0 they had no way of getting top tier gear. Raiders and pvpers though will now at least be able to plan on what pieces they need, and can work as a group to get them.

 

For solo players yes, its only slightly better than 4.0 but only with a chance at gear. That does not mean they will ever get it. The grind to get there and the RNG of it is very much against the solo player as it is all players.

 

The raiders and PVPer are in a much worse situation than 4.0

The only planning you can do is from a last boss. Much less planning than 4.0 where you could plan out all slots.

All other bosses except the last one is a random drop and its very likely you will not get an unassembled piece at all. There isn't any planning in that as we are once again subjected to the RNG we are trying to get as far away from as possible.

 

Then you combine that with how little information bw made sure to NOT give us, like command token costs. Which if they are too high and there is no reason to think bw wont make them that way, then we are all back to the RNG gear crates we have been trying to get away from since we were ever told about it.

 

Why would bw make the command token cost high? Because its exactly what someone like bw would do in this situation when their entire goal with this fiasco GC and RNG crates is to slow every gamer down and string them along iwth a longer grind inside GC. WE cannot escape it and if the cost is low and effective, it allows you to skip GC to much and bw would never allow that. They want to make sure you are behind that grind and have ot rely on RNG in some way to string you along.

 

Yes, bw messed up even more with these changes for what information we have along with their initial mistake of ever implementing GC the way it currently is and RNG gearing at end game.

[Graystar]

I'm a casual player and I pay money for this....

 

My investment is as valuable as yours.

 

I think my money keeps this game afloat too.

 

But not for long this game is becoming to hard to follow. new system after new system.

 

This is not easy to follow for the caual gamer that has 2 hours a night max!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean max!!! I got young kids and a wife I cant play this like so many seem to.

[meelays]

This expansion has crippled my operation focused guild. We were never that big or anything, but we've managed to do guild runs of GF's and HM's every night for the last 5 months. The expansion came out and my fellow raiders just left in droves. At raid time, we have been lucky to have even 2 or 3 people online. We could pug the others, but it isn't worth it. Why bother with unreliable and often really bad pugs when command points are gained way faster by doing pretty much anything besides raiding. It's crazy. I'm seeing more people on fleet than I have in months, but our guild somehow just died. It isn't just my guild having this problem either. I'm seeing much older and larger guilds resort to pugging in general chat. I don't get it really. More people playing should mean that we have no problems filling groups, but whatever.

[Jeweledleah]

Yup. Solo players get to keep doing exactly what they've been doing, which for them is an improvement over 4.0, as in 4.0 they had no way of getting top tier gear. Raiders and pvpers though will now at least be able to plan on what pieces they need, and can work as a group to get them.

 

you have a strange idea of improvement.

 

in 4.0 you could buy next to best gear from a vendor. you could save up crystals and buy exact peices you wanted. now. all you have is rng. or obsene amounts of credits to spend on GTN.

 

oh yes. improvement indeed.

 

but hey, I guess solo players can grit their teeth and afk in warzones for a while.

[DanNV]

This system does not NEED rolling back. Adapt, plan ahead, put effort in or just scream more.

 

Actually, it does need to go away. And no screaming needed. We'll just take or money elsewhere. SWTOR can't afford to lose a good chunk of players, the player base is too small.

[Baraxis]

You really have no idea what you are talking about. You still have the same grind with 5.0 but soon you will also be able to get additional gear with pvp vendors and by doing ops. That is LESS of a grind. It may not be perfect or what we wanted but it is a step in the right direction.

 

Totally incorrect.

This system is far more grind.

In 4.x As my character leveled I received crystals for 208 gear. Had more then enough to get decked out and start the grind for the next level.

Now I hit 70 with ZERO progress to my goal with a month of work to do.

Before My first character could help my next and future alts in a snowball effect. Now each character is on their own.

[Christie_Swift]

Exactly. Raiders got a special favor. Can you blame the rest of us for feeling a bit of envy?

 

It looks like this happened and they threw under the bus the casuals, solo and the new players. However, this is NOT the players fault but BW. They screwed up big time with this one and dont want to admit it. Roll back to before 5.0 is the better solution for all IMO.

[Shwarzchild]

I really don't understand why some solo players think the changes are such a loss for them. The game in the last two years basically has been directed squarely at solo players for one. Two, they now have the ability to gain set piece gear where they didn't previously. They also have access to crafting at a higher level. I fail to see how this is some big blow to that niche in game. None of us can have gear right now, we have to work for it in either time spent or amount of matches, or times the boss has been killed. And for those who think "just on last boss" is some guarantee piece it's absolutely not. While it might be on story mode, the groups that are in hard mode or above have work ahead of them...hours of work...to beat a boss like say Styrak.

 

All in all the raider who is attempting to clear a boss that they are progressing through will probably spend roughly the same amount of time doing so as some of these solo or casual type players. The difference is that the solo or casual will, in that same time frame, be doing activities that grant them cxp whereas the raider will be spending the time not getting cxp. Not only that, the last piece isn't for all 8-16 people in the group. Just one. It's still a slow process. It's not like raiders got some huge leg up here. If anything, it's at least a more even playing field in terms of gearing.

 

Maybe I'm just crazy or something. I dunno. All I know is that this argument that raiders got tossed some sort of bone here is a weird assertion.

 

edit: I think it's a fair argument that the chapters should award more CXP than they currently do if we base it on time spent since those do equal more time spent in game.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Shwarzchild

[Tadagyt]

I think that's the problem, pre fix everyone said it was a bad system, its still a bad system. Yet somehow those players now don't care the system is bad because their gearing issues are sorted. But GC has not been fixed.

 

It's not a bad system now. It's only a bad system if you're not willing to play with people.

[AscendingSky]

It looks like this happened and they threw under the bus the casuals, solo and the new players. However, this is NOT the players fault but BW. They screwed up big time with this one and dont want to admit it. Roll back to before 5.0 is the better solution for all IMO.

 

Casuals, solos, and new players have been getting courted and catered to for the last two years. They're not being 'thrown under the bus'. Endgame players are being thrown a tiny bone, that's it. This doesn't hurt casuals, solos, or new players AT ALL.

 

However, I do agree with you that the developers made a big mistake, and I'd much rather they got rid of the RNG system that is GC entirely rather than try to 'fix' it with a few small changes that don't really address the other major issues.

Edited December 17, 2016 by AscendingSky

[Snowred]

It's not a bad system now. It's only a bad system if you're not willing to play with people.

 

RNG is always a bad system unless you're talking cash shop crates.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Snowred

[Blacklynx]

It saddens me the situation the game is in right now. 5.0 RNG hell was ill thought out from the start and players told BW pratically from the announcement what a mistake it was going to be. The theory behind it isn't bad, players get stuff from playing what they like however, in my opinion, making it the only way to gear up was and is the biggest mistake of the entire system.

 

Their proposal now is to add a convulated system so raiders and pvpers have other/better options to get the gear they need to do the content they want to do. Nothing wrong with that, it is a step in the right direction for these players (i still think it's a mess but they had to do something involving galactic command to save face). But remember that there are no details yet on the token cost or how many tokens you get per crate.

 

For myself since i don't raid and rarely pvp means the galactic command mess stays the same, like others have said i could aim for better gear by doing content and gathering crystals, i knew exactly how much was needed and estimate the amount of time it would take me to get it and i could easily plan my alts the same way. Do i need that gear? no, but that doesn't mean i shouldn't be able to work for it at a decent pace but with galactic command? maybe a month (unlikely), maybe a year, maybe never, per character that i have.

 

Galactic Command should have never been more than subscriber rewards, fluff stuff, mounts, moddable gear, pets, decorations, etc.

[RagnarAugustus]

You really have no idea what you are talking about. You still have the same grind with 5.0 but soon you will also be able to get additional gear with pvp vendors and by doing ops. That is LESS of a grind. It may not be perfect or what we wanted but it is a step in the right direction.

 

Exactly, the OP needs to rewatch the livestream. I just hope we can get back the the old Operations loot system if we keep giving that feedback to the devs.

[casirabit]

It looks like this happened and they threw under the bus the casuals, solo and the new players. However, this is NOT the players fault but BW. They screwed up big time with this one and dont want to admit it. Roll back to before 5.0 is the better solution for all IMO.

 

I am a solo player mostly, I do group up occasionally, but yet I already have all my aguments upgraded and new earpieces, relics and implants that are purple 228. My gear is a mixture of 216-230. I got some drops on the crates but the augments and earpieces, relics and implants I made myself on my crafters.

 

You can use crafting gear to supplement your gear if you are a solo player or even a casual one as most of the things we do don't require better stats.

 

Operations and pvp players actually require the higher gear and they way they are doing it for them I think is a good idea. They can't gear up in one day but it will be considerably faster which is something they do require. I have done operations and pvp and saw what is required to actually help the group and this is a good idea for them to do.

[Quraswren]

You really have no idea what you are talking about. You still have the same grind with 5.0 but soon you will also be able to get additional gear with pvp vendors and by doing ops. That is LESS of a grind. It may not be perfect or what we wanted but it is a step in the right direction.

 

Sorry but the part where its LESS grind is incorrect for the information we currently have.

 

Right now its about the same as a massive grind. Thats because you ahve no idea how many command tokens it will take to get one item of gear. You also do not have a clue as to how often the unassembled pieces will drop.

 

Here is what you can guess though. Command tokens will be prices ridiculously high. bw wants to make sure you cannot escape the GC and its massive grind. Otherwise they would have to say GC really did work but we're going ot make you grind through it anyway. Expect those command tokens to be high in cost along with the unassembled piece.

 

At that point you are still going to have to suffer thorugh GC and its massive grin in command ranks to get tokens for the majority of what you do along with the RNG crates most are trying to get away from. Even with tokens be a 100% drop from crates, you still have to grind them out doing extremely old content. Combine that with the less than amazing drop rate of unassembled tokens and solution or step in the so called right direction is really just a half arse step.