Scale of the Gravestone and Eternal Fleet

[Cruallassar]

Ok, so I just did some number crunching and believe I have successfully figured out the sizes of the Gravestone and the ships from the Eternal Fleet, and thought that I would post my numbers and how I came about them here to see if anyone can verify them. All numbers here are approximations, but I'm fairly certain are close.

 

Gravestone

Length: About 1018.4 meters

Height: About 723 meters

Manner of determination: This one was simpler than it seems. In KotFE Chapter 8 Taking Flight, you can walk around in the Gravestone's hanger bay. By timing the amount of time it takes for a character to run between two points a known distance apart, distance determined using the size of a character...approx. 2 meters...I can determine the speed a normal character sprints. (6.3 meters per second.) I can then run from one side of the hanger to the other, using the known speed and the time required to calculate the width of the hanger, then extrapolating that to the whole ship. With a known length, height is easy.

 

Battle Cruiser

Length: 804.3 meters

Height: 903.75 meters

Width: 433.8 meters

Manner of determination: This one is more difficult, since they never show any object of known size superimposed in the ship. However, they do show scenes of the Gravestone's Omnicannon firing from the Gravestone, and scenes of the beam hitting the battle cruiser, so by comparing the beam's diameter between the two scenes, I can gain a common factor between the two. Since I have a known size for the Gravestone, and a common factor, I can calculate the Battlecruiser's height. From that, length and width are easy.

 

Arcann's Flagship

Length: About 3093.5 meters, possibly more by a small amount.

Other dimensions based on length...

Height: 495 meters

Width: 1031 meters

Manner of determination: This one was the most difficult to perfectly get. While there are scenes of a single omnicannon shot firing through a battlecruiser of known size and into the Flagship, which gives me a comparison factor, the shot does not have the full Flagship, missing the front little bit. Therefore, I had to estimate that part of the ship in my calculations, and it has the potential to be a little under by maybe fifty meters. Nevertheless, the same manner used on the battlecruiser works even better here...comparing the diameter of the omnicannon beam at the points of impact gives me a comparison ratio, and a simple ruler gives me sizes on-screen, so all I had to do was convert it using the ratio of the beam impact points.

 

Once again, please double check my math and estimates if you have the patience, I'd like to confirm these sizes once and for all.

[Paulsutherland]

I disagree ... the Gravestone is tiny compared to the cruisers.

 

Link

 

That shot is from Chapter 4 of KOTET. The Cruiser you see is further away from the camera than the Gravestone.

[Anynos]

You've overcalculated size of the Gravestone, in a lot of cutscenes you can see it next to Eternal Fleet battlecruisers and it's tiny. Gravestone is more likely around size of typicall corvette wich is more like 100-150 meters. Also i have a strange feeling that wookiepedia statistics are overscaled. According to battle of Voss in kotet first chapter Battlecruisers were were like 1 time bigger than Republic's Thranta-class Cruiser, so if Thranta-class is around 350 meters than Battlecruiser should be around 600-700 meters, I'm almost sure that they are a little smaller than Sith's Harrower-class Dreadnoughts wich is around 800 meters, and until Eternal Empire's invasion is the biggest warship in galaxy. And about Arcann's flagship...it looks more like 2.5 times bigger than 4 times, but it's hard to say. So if I'm right than real size of flagship is around 1500-1600 meters, same size as Imperial II class Star Destroyer. So it's my opinion about Eternal Fleet ships size. Edited December 11, 2016 by Anynos

[AshlaBoga]

You need to double the size of the Battle Cruisers.

 

They're closer to 1600m than 800m.

Edited December 11, 2016 by AshlaBoga

[Cruallassar]

The Gravestone's size is the one I'm most certain about. There is a possibility of slight error if an average BT2 character is any significant amount smaller than 2 meters tall, but it is minimal. The Battlecruisers on the other hand do have a more significant possibility of error, as considering the scenes compared, the Gravestone's beam may be a different diameter between the two scenes. I was under the impression beforehand myself that the Battlecruisers were larger, however size in space can be rather deceptive without good depth perception...for example, in that picture that was linked, there is really no way to know how close to the camera the Battlecruiser is. The Gravestone is more doable there, since you can take the camera straight up to it and use that linear scaling down with distance to calculate the distance between the Gravestone and the camera, however I don't know how to do that.

 

Suffice to say that how large the battle cruiser is in comparison to the Gravestone is absolutely something I would welcome help in determining...and I don't mean meaningless opinions based on speculation and what seems to be true, I mean a determinate, verifiable point of known size in direct comparison at equal camera depth with the battle cruiser. Best if that is a part of the ship itself.

 

Arcann's Flagship on the other hand is at LEAST that big. If it is any bigger, it is because the battle cruiser is bigger, since the point of known size compared to it is the battle cruiser. There are beam points of impact between both ships in the same scene, which gives us a ratio by which we can convert our measurements to in-universe size. Therefore, if the battle cruiser is that big, the flagship is that big. Which makes a lot of sense given dialogue...it is pointed out to the Outlander that the flagship had the firepower to destroy the Alliance base with or without Arcann. Considering that that is a feat worthy of at least a few battle cruisers, I'd say that that is a big and powerful ship. Speaking of which, that same method of thinking applies to the Gravestone...sure it is a superior ship in every way, but the power to blow up countless battlecruisers and blow a hole through the flagship has to come with some serious size.

 

Additionally, the numbers on Wookipedia were put there by me after doing this calculation, however I was hoping I could get some verification by other people.

[Cruallassar]

Also, I'd like to point out that the replies here seem to contradict each other, and only one of them actually has a modigm of thought put into it...Kudos to him, btw, even though I need supporting facts on his assertion that the Gravestone's size is lesser. (Once again, direct known time and speed equals known distance, it isn't rocket science here.)

[fishpeople]

In the scene prior to that screenshot the Gravestone has two cruisers flying near it. The one in the screenshot is on the Gravestones left side. So it would be 'behind' the Gravestone. the second ship appears briefly after that shot on the gravestones right side.

 

So I would estimate the Gravestone to be between 200-300 meters in length. The Cruiser 800-1000 and the flagship appears to be twice the size of the cruiser so 2000m ?

[Anynos]

The Gravestone's size is the one I'm most certain about. There is a possibility of slight error if an average BT2 character is any significant amount smaller than 2 meters tall, but it is minimal. The Battlecruisers on the other hand do have a more significant possibility of error, as considering the scenes compared, the Gravestone's beam may be a different diameter between the two scenes. I was under the impression beforehand myself that the Battlecruisers were larger, however size in space can be rather deceptive without good depth perception...for example, in that picture that was linked, there is really no way to know how close to the camera the Battlecruiser is. The Gravestone is more doable there, since you can take the camera straight up to it and use that linear scaling down with distance to calculate the distance between the Gravestone and the camera, however I don't know how to do that.

 

Suffice to say that how large the battle cruiser is in comparison to the Gravestone is absolutely something I would welcome help in determining...and I don't mean meaningless opinions based on speculation and what seems to be true, I mean a determinate, verifiable point of known size in direct comparison at equal camera depth with the battle cruiser. Best if that is a part of the ship itself.

 

Arcann's Flagship on the other hand is at LEAST that big. If it is any bigger, it is because the battle cruiser is bigger, since the point of known size compared to it is the battle cruiser. There are beam points of impact between both ships in the same scene, which gives us a ratio by which we can convert our measurements to in-universe size. Therefore, if the battle cruiser is that big, the flagship is that big. Which makes a lot of sense given dialogue...it is pointed out to the Outlander that the flagship had the firepower to destroy the Alliance base with or without Arcann. Considering that that is a feat worthy of at least a few battle cruisers, I'd say that that is a big and powerful ship. Speaking of which, that same method of thinking applies to the Gravestone...sure it is a superior ship in every way, but the power to blow up countless battlecruisers and blow a hole through the flagship has to come with some serious size.

 

Additionally, the numbers on Wookipedia were put there by me after doing this calculation, however I was hoping I could get some verification by other people.

 

ehh Eternal Fleet blueprints would be nice now. The only thing that concers me is the fact that if your calculations are correct, then if Gravestone really is more than 1km long than Battlecruisers should be even longer. If this is true then i'm concerned why the biggest warships 3000 years prior from now (wich are imperial star destroyers) are only 1,6 km long (i don't count Executor because it's a single ship). And how the hell they are able to supply and maintain them, the bigger the ship the bigger it's maintaince cost. And Eternal Fleet has houndreds if not thousands of big ships. Maybe tomorrow i will do some calculations and analysis of my own.

[Cruallassar]

In the scene prior to that screenshot the Gravestone has two cruisers flying near it. The one in the screenshot is on the Gravestones left side. So it would be 'behind' the Gravestone. the second ship appears briefly after that shot on the gravestones right side.

 

So I would estimate the Gravestone to be between 200-300 meters in length. The Cruiser 800-1000 and the flagship appears to be twice the size of the cruiser so 2000m ?

 

200-300 meters in length is still drastically different from the calculation I did, which was using the Gravestone as docked in comparison with a human. Can you do the calculation I did and see if you can come up with a different answer?

Additionally, can you link a video of the scene you cite? I looked through the chapter cinematics and although I remember the scene you speak of, I can't find it for some reason.

[fishpeople]

Star Wars has never been good a ship scaling, SWTOR is no exception.

 

 

Around 1:00 when Theron says 'It's the whole Eternal Fleet' you have a good shot of a cruiser next to the gravestone.

 

Around 3:00 you have the scene from that link.

[Cruallassar]

Star Wars has never been good a ship scaling, SWTOR is no exception.

 

 

Around 1:00 when Theron says 'It's the whole Eternal Fleet' you have a good shot of a cruiser next to the gravestone.

 

Around 3:00 you have the scene from that link.

 

My thanks. This gives me a much better method of calculating the Battle cruiser's size...which also makes them comparable to an ISD. No wonder the Sith Empire and Republic fell so quickly. This also means that Arcann's Flagship is almost as big as a Super Star Destroyer. Now, given that this is an empire capable of building a bunch of micro death stars in a few years, (Star Fortresses), I suppose that is perfectly plausible...but daaang...

New calculations will be forthcoming.

[AshlaBoga]

My thanks. This gives me a much better method of calculating the Battle cruiser's size...which also makes them comparable to an ISD. No wonder the Sith Empire and Republic fell so quickly. This also means that Arcann's Flagship is almost as big as a Super Star Destroyer. Now, given that this is an empire capable of building a bunch of micro death stars in a few years, (Star Fortresses), I suppose that is perfectly plausible...but daaang...

New calculations will be forthcoming.

 

Yeah, I retract my earlier statement that the Gravestone is half the length of an Eternal Fleet Battle Cruiser.

The EF ships are clearly more than twice as long in that cutscene.

 

Holy crap, between the Fleet and the Star Fortresses, the Eternal Empire pretty much just steamrolled the Galaxy didn't they?

[Anynos]

My thanks. This gives me a much better method of calculating the Battle cruiser's size...which also makes them comparable to an ISD. No wonder the Sith Empire and Republic fell so quickly. This also means that Arcann's Flagship is almost as big as a Super Star Destroyer. Now, given that this is an empire capable of building a bunch of micro death stars in a few years, (Star Fortresses), I suppose that is perfectly plausible...but daaang...

New calculations will be forthcoming.

 

Also here:

right on the beginning you have good shot of flagship size compared to battlecruisers.

and here:

from 1:20 to 1:50 you have very good shots of republic's and empire's cruisers compared to eternal empire's battlecruisers, firstly i was using that as a comparision, i think that somewhere on wookiepedia there are specifics lenght and height of empire's and republic's warships. I hope i helped somewhow, tbh i was curious about eternal fleet size for a longer while.

[AshlaBoga]

Also here:

right on the beginning you have good shot of flagship size compared to battlecruisers.

and here:

from 1:20 to 1:50 you have very good shots of republic's and empire's cruisers compared to eternal empire's battlecruisers, firstly i was using that as a comparision, i think that somewhere on wookiepedia there are specifics lenght and height of empire's and republic's warships. I hope i helped somewhow, tbh i was curious about eternal fleet size for a longer while.

 

Strange thing is that the EF ships seem to change scale in some cutscenes.

 

The small ship the Commander is using to land is the same one (or almost) as the one in Chapter XVI.

And it's shown to be relatively similar in size compared to the Gravestone as it is to the EF ships here.

 

So I think they didn't scale the EF ships properly, they should be larger than the Imperial Star Destroyers here, not close to the same size.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I wanna know how big the fleet is tbh.

 

But I doubt were gonna get that number or exact length of vessels.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi

[FlavivsAetivs]

There's no way an Eternal Fleet battlecruiser can be the size of an Imperial-Class Star Destroyer (1.6km). We clearly see them compared to the Thranta-Class Corvette in several scenes, which has an estimated length of 300m (it's supposed to be the same size as the Hammerhead-class corvette). The Terminus-Class Destroyer is 400m, and the Harrower-Class Star Destroyer is 800m.

 

The Gravestone is smaller than a Thranta-Class corvette (you can just barely see it behind one in the opening of Chapter 1: KotET), which the latter appears to be half the size of an Eternal Fleet Battlecruiser. 500-700m is a safe estimate for the Eternal Fleet Battlecruiser, while I would put the Gravestone at around 150-200m.

 

Hard to say how big one of the Eternal Fleet Dreadnaughts are, but they appear to be roughly equivalent in size to the larger, later star destroyers like the Imperator-Class. I think I saw 1100m somewhere.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited December 12, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Cruallassar]

There's no way an Eternal Fleet battlecruiser can be the size of an Imperial-Class Star Destroyer (1.6km). We clearly see them compared to the Thranta-Class Corvette in several scenes, which has an estimated length of 300m (it's supposed to be the same size as the Hammerhead-class corvette). The Terminus-Class Destroyer is 400m, and the Harrower-Class Star Destroyer is 800m.

 

The Gravestone is smaller than a Thranta-Class corvette (you can just barely see it behind one in the opening of Chapter 1: KotET), which the latter appears to be half the size of an Eternal Fleet Battlecruiser. 500-700m is a safe estimate for the Eternal Fleet Battlecruiser, while I would put the Gravestone at around 150-200m.

 

Hard to say how big one of the Eternal Fleet Dreadnaughts are, but they appear to be roughly equivalent in size to the larger, later star destroyers like the Imperator-Class. I think I saw 1100m somewhere.

 

~ Eudoxia

So...by your estimate, the Gravestone is only about twice as long as a Jedi Gunship... (I.E. Defender-class Corvette)...I can kinda see that, though perhaps a bit bigger. Perhaps 250 meters...though the Thranta was actually slightly smaller than a Hammerhead. Still, if the Imperator Star Destroyer was 1100ish meters, and the Imp Star Deuce was 1600 meters, then you can't really compare the Imperator to one of the later and larger designs.

[Wolfninjajedi]

So...by your estimate, the Gravestone is only about twice as long as a Jedi Gunship... (I.E. Defender-class Corvette)...I can kinda see that, though perhaps a bit bigger. Perhaps 250 meters...though the Thranta was actually slightly smaller than a Hammerhead. Still, if the Imperator Star Destroyer was 1100ish meters, and the Imp Star Deuce was 1600 meters, then you can't really compare the Imperator to one of the later and larger designs.

 

? The Imperial 1-class Star Destroyer is the same length as the Imperial 2 class Star Destroyer.

 

Both are noted as being 1,600 meters.

 

The only difference is the 2nd class ISD is upgraded with better shielding, hull and firepower.

[Cruallassar]

? The Imperial 1-class Star Destroyer is the same length as the Imperial 2 class Star Destroyer.

 

Both are noted as being 1,600 meters.

 

The only difference is the 2nd class ISD is upgraded with better shielding, hull and firepower.

 

I know. I just mention the second one because it was a later design, but still...either one is larger than the Imperator class.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I know. I just mention the second one because it was a later design, but still...either one is larger than the Imperator class.

 

Is there another Imperator class I'm missing? Because the Imperator= ISD class 1, which is 1,600 meters, same as ISD 2.

[MarauderNZero]

Here's a better sizing for you:

 

Gravestone: Standard size crusier

Eternal Fleet Cruiser: Very very large

Arcann's Flagship: Behemoth

 

[FlavivsAetivs]

He's assuming I was saying I saw a figure of 1100m for the Imperator-Class, when I was referring to Arcann's Flagship (the Zakuulan Dreadnaught).

 

The Imperator-Class is the same as the Imperial-I class. There are Three Imperial Star Destroyer variants in the EU: The Imperator/Imperial-I, Imperial-II, and the Tector-Class.

 

~ Eudoxia

[phalczen]

Now, given that this is an empire capable of building a bunch of micro death stars in a few years, (Star Fortresses)

 

It has orbital lasers, but we never see them causing as much devastation as the unfinished/incomplete/underpowered Death Star test shown in the last trailer for Rogue One. I thought most of its "power" came from its sky trooper factory. I do recall Theron saying we can't use the gravestone since they are capable of taking out cruisers (SF intro missions), but that's child's play for DS1 and DS2.

[Cruallassar]

Is there another Imperator class I'm missing? Because the Imperator= ISD class 1, which is 1,600 meters, same as ISD 2.

 

My apologies, you are correct. There are so many different types of Star Destroyer, it can be confusing. (Imperator class, Imperial class...you'd think they'd be different.)

[FlavivsAetivs]

It has orbital lasers, but we never see them causing as much devastation as the unfinished/incomplete/underpowered Death Star test shown in the last trailer for Rogue One. I thought most of its "power" came from its sky trooper factory. I do recall Theron saying we can't use the gravestone since they are capable of taking out cruisers (SF intro missions), but that's child's play for DS1 and DS2.

 

To be honest it doesn't seem to be much more powerful than other large space stations in the Star Wars universe, just a bit more advanced.

 

Like, I don't imagine a single cruiser could take out Carrick Station or Vaiken Spacedock either.

 

~ Eudoxia