Aeristash Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 The monotony was the result of the fact we had not been given new group content in OVER TWO YEARS, and what little content we did receive was both exceptionally short (20 minutes or less per month), single player only, and had about zero replay value since choices did not matter. RNG is not the solution to that monotony, not when even the alleged 'new' group content in the game (Uprisings) all use recycled mechanics from old content. New content wasn't the only reason. People complained about forming groups in general, puging, being scammed out of tokens via kick, having to gear alts as well, fighting with ops members, PC difficulties or just not being able to get a group at all. RNG fixes all these issues by giving players equal opportunity to achieve this gear without all the issues. Of course it doesn't just hand them the gear on a gold platter, but it does give them the same chance to gear as if they were in a raid. Lets be honest; not everyone in a raid walks away with a token, boss drop or epic piece of armor every time they run a raid. Same thing with the RNG system. It merely stimulates that chance factor outside the do or die confines of the raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 More like the feeling I get when I open a Galactic Command crate is equivalent to pulling the ripcord and hoping that a parachute comes out and not an anvil Wile E. Coyote style. I.e., not an experience I'm willing to pay for. Precisely because that's not the kind of RNG I want in my life I guess to be fair to GC in regards to that analogy you get another chance at the ripcord. Although with the cartoon reference we would be god mode so now I'm confused ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nkya Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 RNG isn't bad by itself. But it's easier to fail an RNG system than a straight one because they're harder to apprehend. And this one is well failed: gearing up is made too long and impredictible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnoRonin Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I had a bad feeling this would happen but a question needs to be asked...does the DvL levelling armour influence the CXP amounts in anyhow? Has anyone tried it? I haven't completed many of the dvl stuff, and since i returned out of a whim, I also haven't read much about the rewards from that event - so now I have 0 pieces of levelling armour😫 But it would be logical if they did that event just before the expansion, if it would help with the grind... I also remember the excrutiating pain of levelling a toon, and now it's like a mountaigne rousse, even the nausea is present😉 If the dvl levelling armour is not helping with the CXP - maybe they could have another event or something like that...even having a set on the CM that would do that - no need to thank me for the suggestion Buy o' Ware - remember just who said it first! Anf btw for every player that unsubs there are people that sub or come into the game for the sw hype...force has awakened and though bw is more of a rogue agent, they ride the same wave🤕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majopucik Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 This is "exciting", apparently. It is exciting for someone who never even played the game!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 In a way, it is exciting. There is actually an appeal to opening something and seeing what is inside When it's a bloody Christmas present, I'd agree! Not when it means you don't get yet another piece of gear you wanted to earn so you could run the content you wanted to run with friends, so you could have some fun. Remove gearing properly for content from the equation and yes, it would be exciting. ****, we're meant to be playing this game for fun, where did it go so wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) New content wasn't the only reason. People complained about forming groups in general, puging, being scammed out of tokens via kick, having to gear alts as well, fighting with ops members, PC difficulties or just not being able to get a group at all. RNG fixes all these issues by giving players equal opportunity to achieve this gear without all the issues. Of course it doesn't just hand them the gear on a gold platter, but it does give them the same chance to gear as if they were in a raid. Lets be honest; not everyone in a raid walks away with a token, boss drop or epic piece of armor every time they run a raid. Same thing with the RNG system. It merely stimulates that chance factor outside the do or die confines of the raid. ...you don't know how operations loot actually worked, do you? Let me explain. Let's take the easiest operation in the game, Eternity Vault. It has 5 bosses. In 4.0 that meant you would get 5 loot tokens if you did it on 8 man, and 10 tokens (2 of each slot that dropped) on 16 man (assuming it was not the highlighted hardmode that week; then it would drop DOUBLE that amount, half 220s and half 224s). These tokens were for purple 216/220/224 gear, depending on what difficulty you ran on and whether it was the highlighted operation that week. All of the armor tokens would give you a gear piece with a set bonus. Those drops were GUARANTEED. Sure, not every single person would get a token if you distributed one per person (which is what pretty much every pug ops group I've ever been in has done, as well as most of the guild groups I've been in). But on 8 man, 5 out of 8 people would be guaranteed a piece of loot in one ops run. On 16 man, 10 out of 16 people would be guaranteed a piece of loot. (Oh, and this is not even counting the randomly generated extra purple gear without set bonuses that would drop off every boss; we're just focusing on the tokens for now.) Therefore, if you formed an 8 man group with your friends, you could easily run through that raid once a week, evenly distribute the loot, and get everyone that gear for their toon at about the same rate. Sure, it would take weeks and weeks of running to get everything (as two of the pieces in that raid were relic and earpiece tokens, neither of which can be transferred via legacy gear) for every member of that raid, but you knew eventually EVERYONE WOULD GET IT. IT WAS GUARANTEED. Now? You take your 8 man (or 16 man) group into Eternity Vault. Some of them might earn a Command rank after completing the operation and cashing in all their CXP boxes from the bosses. Some might not (or might not be level 70 yet and unable to get CXP boxes at all). Of all of those who get boxes, 95% of the time they are going to get NOTHING but junk greens, orange cosmetic shells, companion gifts, reputation items (for reputations most of them already have maxed out), etc. So most of the time, no one will get ANYTHING for their time. Furthermore, no matter how many times you run the operation, grinding for hours and hours each week for CXP, your odds of getting a gear drop you actually need DOES NOT GET ANY BETTER. Every box you open has the exact same loot table per tier, the same percentages, the same vast amounts of crap no one wants or needs. So you can literally run this operation DOZENS OF TIMES and have nothing to show for it if RNGesus does not smile on you. Do you understand now? Do you see how the new RNG loot system for Command crates does not give you the same chance for loot as the 4.0 loot system did in ops? How it is actually MUCH, MUCH WORSE?! Edited December 9, 2016 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessie Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 The house always wins, so gambling is very exciting for them. However, for us players who are losing, its depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharianus Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Oh it is very "exciting" to see those guys losing their jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I am so excited that i will not sub anymore and go play another game. WoW also has RNG for their legendary drop system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomaad Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 In the right hands, this game could be amazing like it kind of used to be. The game is no where near amazing to me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hichitsuki-hime Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 WoW also has RNG for their legendary drop system. yes it does, but it works better. because the longer u play NOT getting a legendary, the BIGGER your chance to get it next time becomes. i'm sure the % are small. but it's still a better system than what BW has created here:eek::eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hichitsuki-hime Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I couldn't believe what I was hearing when he called RNG exciting and "the thrill of teh chase." That is THE example of how out of touch they are. thrill of the chase: us chasing Ben with flaming pitchforks around that room they stream from.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hichitsuki-hime Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 In the right hands, this game could be amazing like it kind of used to be. The game is no where near amazing to me at all. i know right, so MUCH potential lost. we could have had stuff like: 1) race stories 2) more involved ways to learn crafting / advanced class 3) ... flying mounts? lol 4) class stories continued properly after lvl 50 5) a new class instead of the new race (read - skin) 6) oh how about new raid, or new war zone map and instead we get ENDLESS RNG BASED GEAR GRIND. sound exciting?:eek::eek::eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I unironically call RNG sub exciting. I'll have to start rolling a dice the first of every month. If I get a 6, I go and buy a game time card. 1-5, I play another game. I cancelled my sub during the livestream after they moved on from CXP. It expires 26 January, so my first RNG Sub roll would be 1 February. What's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Eh, sweet lady) Don't worrie) They will start making sense... ...at some point... ...maybe I guess when subs population will get low enough - they willl do something even more "exciting" As former player of other failed EA/BW MMOs... No. They won't. They'll get down to one server like they did for the other games and then shut it down when population drops enough on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 As former player of other failed EA/BW MMOs... No. They won't. They'll get down to one server like they did for the other games and then shut it down when population drops enough on that one. Well, last I checked UO was still alive. At least the servers, haven't actually bothered to enter and see the population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaerah Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Well, last I checked UO was still alive. At least the servers, haven't actually bothered to enter and see the population. WH... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celise Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 the most damning thing stated during that livestream is when ben mentioned how much he enjoyed presenting the games expac to bioware, that implies the rest of bioware have no clue what the austin branch is doing with swtor. Some apple polishing and sweeping issue under the rug along with some metrics on the first few days can't hurt to move ones career out of the game and in to the upper management at the expense of the players who play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBrona Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 RNG is exciting in the same way that opening a Christmas from your Aunt is exciting..... It might be socks, It might be an ugly sweater, It might be underwear. You're just hoping for the least worst option and you're excited to get socks because at least it's underwear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElZaguero Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 More like the feeling I get when I open a Galactic Command crate is equivalent to pulling the ripcord and hoping that a parachute comes out and not an anvil Wile E. Coyote style. I.e., not an experience I'm willing to pay for. Precisely because that's not the kind of RNG I want in my life "Is everybody happy?" cried the sergeant looking up. Our hero feebly answered "yes", and then they stood him up. He leaped right out into the blast, his static line unhooked, He ain't gonna jump no more! He counted long, he counted loud, he waited for the shock. He felt the wind, he felt the clouds he felt the awful drop. He pulled the cord, his chute spilled out, and wrapped around his legs. He ain't gonna jump no more! Gory, gory, what a hell of a way to die... Except in our case it's more like, "He ain't gonna sub no more". I feel 5.0 was just this, they shouted "Currahee!" and jumped out of the plane with the loose end of their static line flapping in the wind. SWTOR is in free fall, now it only remains to see if they actually have a reserve chute or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElZaguero Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 thrill of the chase: us chasing Ben with flaming pitchforks around that room they stream from.:D YES YES YES! OMG, sign me up! Put it on pay-per-view and you could finance hiring some real talent for the next expac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) Without the element of surprise, the path eventually gets beaten black & blue and that leads to the monotony being complained about prior to 5.0. Adn thats why you create new content even if the rewards lead to a similar ending. What do you think made the DVL event happen? It wasn't redoing all that old content that got people doing it. It was the clear and present visual rewards you could see. Not some random cartel packs they threw in that you could even trade around or sell on the GTN. Edited December 9, 2016 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MollyDresden Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 There is excitement in wondering where ones luck will land on the draw. Obliviously a philosophy above the pay grade of some. Did you seriously just imply that people who enjoy gambling are smarter than people who don't? Because that's the opposite of true. Yes, we know what gambling is. Yes, we know a lot of people do find it exciting. A lot of people are extremely reward-sensitive. A lot of us aren't, and a lot of us are smart enough to know that when the odds are stacked against you actually getting those rewards, wasting your time/money trying to get them is stupid and unfulfilling. 'Gambling = fun' is by no means a universal truth. The devs don't appear to understand this, and that's part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabigool Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) In a way, it is exciting. There is actually an appeal to opening something and seeing what is inside, especially when you get exactly what you wanted. People just don't like to lose on a dice roll...even though people have been rolling for loot in raids in MMOs for many years. The core issue is... predictability of effort..... how long you will have to level Cxp before you get everything you want. Totally incorrect. (IMO) Edited December 9, 2016 by gabigool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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