RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Jadescythe]

Says White Knight

 

Now listen to me kid.

 

You are NOTHING to me.

You are MORE than NOTHING to me.

You don't have ANY right to try and shut my mouth.

 

So keep your words for your mommie.

 

There's TONS of valid arguments from people who doesn't like and doesn't wnat those changes.

 

What you guys are doing when reading it?

 

You close your eyes and ears and keep telling LA-LA-LA-LA-I-CAN'T-HEAR-YA-LA-LA-LA.

 

Aowin has "valid arguments"? Based on HIS personal impressions?

 

Our contargument beats your White Knighting to the ground.

 

We have LIVING pepople behind our backs. Guilds. Friends. Families.

 

And you have only your overgrown ego that doesn't let you hear others.

 

I have no further desire to speak with persons like you or Aowin.

You are abomination of all SWTOR Community.

 

And you will be forever remembered as people who helped to ruin SWTOR.

 

Piece out, nerfherders

 

You literally read nothing I've said and made a post. Congrats. You're still wrong in your post. With all the shortcomings the system has, it certainly does accomplish the goal of allowing you to do any content you would like on your path to gearing exactly as Aowin mentioned.

 

I like how you called me a white knight after I've been criticizing the system for this entire thread before you put your incoherent 2 cents in. Cool story bro.

[Jadescythe]

I foresee possible gaps in gear tiers months down the line. Currently, everybody is equal because most players are still tier 1 (besides exploiters). Again, BioWare has metrics and they will make sure that the gear gap between players does not become too large. Unlike pre-5.0 where BioWare did not have any control over gear and whether players had access to gear, BioWare has absolute control now.

 

If they see there is a huge disparity between most players being tier 2 and 3 while newcomers are tier 1, they can implement systems to either provide rapid gains for CXP or perhaps even the vendor idea Ben suggested in the last Producer Live Stream.

 

BioWare isn't just going to sit on their hands for an entire year and decide to make fixes in the next expansion. They've already indicated Galactic Command is a foundation for the game and that they needed it in the game to see how it functions before they could make any rapid changes to the system. This is merely phase one of Galactic Command and more phases are coming.

 

This is a sure fire way to get your player base to hate you. Sure, make your long time subscribers grind for months to gear a character and then change the system 4 months later so you can do it in half the time to help new players. I bet everyone will love that idea.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

You literally read nothing I've said and made a post. Congrats. You're still wrong in your post. With all the shortcomings the system has, it certainly does accomplish the goal of allowing you to do any content you would like on your path to gearing exactly as Aowin mentioned.

 

I like how you called me a white knight after I've been criticizing the system for this entire thread before you put your incoherent 2 cents in. Cool story bro.

please please please don't desert me!!! :eek: i don't argue that in theory u could do any content and still gain CXP, but if u do any content other than PvP, it will be MUCH MUCH slower.... so it doesn't really feel like a choice really:D:D:D

[Quraswren]

We are a sample size of how a vocal minority feels about Galactic Command, nothing more.

 

What do you think is the main topic? GC and the fiasco that came with it. The sample size is actuall quite nice given bws love of metrics.

 

The operative phrase in your argument being "if they got in a group." That was the problem. A lot of players simply could not get into a group, barring them from all of that content. Galactic Command does away with that.

 

A lot of player simply didn't create t their own groups. A lot of players simply didn't have teh time. A lot of players simply didn't..... It is not different now than it was then. BUT this time they also have RNG to deal with not just something as simple as not having the time or not forming their own group. You didn't need some special group to clear EV and KP.

 

GC made sure to put such a massive hurdle in front of new players they might never catch up and other players in no way could ever help them. No matter what. GC then in turn made sure that IF you found the time to grind through GC, you still had RNG gear to contend with. This was not some magic 8 ball that suddenly got ery player access to end game gear.

 

While I'll agree the initial implementation of NGE was horrible and beyond puzzling to fundamentally change a sandbox game into more of a theme park,

Agreed.

I disagree that the NGE is one of the reasons SWG shut down.

Oh it was very much one of the reason in many around that time for its demise.

Prior to the closure of SWG, SNIP.... Way off topic more than I care to get into....

 

Regardless, I'm getting on a tangent about SWG now. Galactic Command is no NGE. It's definitely an overhaul in how gear progression works, but that's the only aspect of the game that has changed.

I'm not really going to get into that much. SWG is gone and bad management killed it. swtor seems to be following that same poor example but in their on convoluted way.

 

Considering BIoWare has already indicated they wouldn't be against adding a vendor or players to get that last set piece bonus they just can't get with RNG, you should be very excited with the tweaks BioWare could be making. The Live Stream today will probably give us even more insight into what BioWare is going to do.

 

As I said. Until it happen is simple has not and there is no taking bws word for it. Every day they wait to adjust this fiasco of an end game gear system and massively longer than needed grind is harmful to the game. I've never had a problem with doing any content for gear but the aforementioned problems are a detriment to game that alienates gamers now more than ever.

 

Reasonable minds may differ. I don't have an issue with Galactic Command and I've only received one set piece so far out of 35 or so command ranks. I'm not bothered by that at all as I'm not in the rush that many of you are to have BiS gear immediately after an expansion launches. Again, the really issue here is BioWare spoiled many players by making gear far too easy and far too fast to obtain. They are changing that philosophy drastically and many obviously do not like that change.

 

If we were doing new content it might have made things a bit different as we worked to do that content but all this did was tell us to do the masive long grind to do nothing but the content we were just doing a little over a week ago.

 

I'm sure you are not so blind that you cannot see that as just one of the problems here.

 

You claim we are spolied but that simply isn't the case. We have seen and experiences bws different design when it was indeed harder and took longer to gear and we ahd to suffer through bws pvp loot bags. You don't progress to a really decent loot system that allowed everyone to get decent gear and then throw that out the door for massive grinds and RNG looting that tends to make sure you lose most of the time. Thats not gamers being spoiled. That management being stupid. And really, what philosophy is changing? Do they or don't they want to keep curtomersand have a greater player retention than they have had? That wont ever change but the current GC with RNG gearing is a detriment to that no matter how they think they want to change the game. They haven't changed their philosophy, they just created an illusion to hide how little new content this game has in some weak hope to retain gamers with so little new and trick them into once again doing content they have been doing for year.

 

You'll just have to wait and see. I obviously can't change your mind. Seeing how the system functions in the long run will be enough evidence.

 

If it stays in it current form and we all know bw isn't the quickest coders on the shelf when it comes to making fast changes except when it comes to the cartel market expect what we have currently for a while because that is exactly what bw will tell you in the live stream. Something about "X" is coming but we can't say when PR garbage and each and every day this poorly thought out design continues to run at end game well that another day for a new or old gamer to see how massive the grind is and get a taste of why RNG is used to screw you over.

 

Thats not good for any companies philosophy. Retaining customers to make money. 5.0 goes directly against that.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

This is a sure fire way to get your player base to hate you. Sure, make your long time subscribers grind for months to gear a character and then change the system 4 months later so you can do it in half the time to help new players. I bet everyone will love that idea.

 

kind of reminds me of those tokens u can craft in WoW to catch up ur alts on the ancient knowledge ranks so they gain the points faster for their weapon development lol:D:D:D is very nice, but it does sound like it has potential for even more problems than we have ATM

[Aowin]

seee you say yourself that it used to be TOO easy. and yet u still go on and on about it being unobtainable for newer players? decide already. it can't really work both ways.

 

of course we can't do anything else but wait and see. but i'm pretty sure that the longer we wait, especially with their great habit of not dropping in and leaving a couple words especially in threads as big as ours is becoming only frustrates people even more.

 

Too easy for veteran players who knew how the system worked and had groups that could get the content done. I should have provided context. The old system was never easy for newcomers, which was the problem. The game was inherently biased towards veterans, as is the case with most MMOs. Galactic Command is an attempt to take a few steps away from that mentality.

 

BioWare is busy actually working on the game. They don't have time to speak to us all of the time. They also generally won't speak on an issue until it's 100% locked down and they know it's going to happen. I can understand why they are cautious and only address an issue when they already have a solution for it.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Too easy for veteran players who knew how the system worked and had groups that could get the content done. I should have provided context. The old system was never easy for newcomers, which was the problem. The game was inherently biased towards veterans, as is the case with most MMOs. Galactic Command is an attempt to take a few steps away from that mentality.

 

BioWare is busy actually working on the game. They don't have time to speak to us all of the time. They also generally won't speak on an issue until it's 100% locked down and they know it's going to happen. I can understand why they are cautious and only address an issue when they already have a solution for it.

 

i play on harb. i am 9 hours AHEAD of america and 7ish hours behind australia. and even with that crap timezone i managed to get enough pugs done. so it CAN be done if people want to do it bad enough. u think it was easy finding people who could game at 2 pm US time? well let me tell u man, it certainly wasn't. it took me 4-5 months to get a team where we didn't need to pug in 4 people at least.

yes i can see why they might not want to drop by and even say hi we see the issue we're working on it.......... oh wait i've seen tait and eric say that in A LOT of threads over the years....

no, it really wasn't that biased. if anything it was towards peple with most time on their hands.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Hichitsuki-hime

[Vember]

I like how you called me a white knight

 

I got a chuckle out of that when he posted it

Edited December 8, 2016 by Vember

[Quraswren]

SNIP....Galactic Command is an attempt to take a few steps away from that mentality.

You can't really think that given all that has been told to you or if you have even played since 5.0 that 5.0 was somehow better for new gamers. Long run or short.

 

Every single day a new gamer isn't playing since Nov 29 and early access. They are more and more behind and no gamer in swtor can ever help them catch up. They will suffer in PVP and PVE and will be behind the curve of gamers for a very long time and thats only if they can grind every single day and RNG decides to be nice to them. You cannot really think that is somehow nice to gamers or better than 4.0 when any gmers could get decent PVP gear really easy and any gamer that ran any content got crystals could by 216 and 220 gear right as they reach max level.

 

You really can't believe 5.0 is somehow better.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Quraswren

[Vember]

He's saying it will be better, this is just the foundation. Which I tend to agree with, given some optimism. Edited December 8, 2016 by Vember

[Quraswren]

He's saying it will be better, this is just the foundation. And I agree.

 

As long as we can see the future, I wish he would loan that crystal ball to bw then, maybe they can stop making so many mistakes.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Quraswren

[Hichitsuki-hime]

He's saying it will be better, this is just the foundation. Which I tend to agree with, given some optimism.

i wish he could make me see how it is or will be better. because atm it plain STINKS. :D:D

sure we're int he stage or massive first uproar and it's augmented by not that many dev posts, very crappy RNG, like the more crates i open and then more useless rubbish they give me the more annoying that gets. and i really want to see them explain in person why they did it, how do they intent to make it work so it doesn't make people run off because the grind is too slow or the RNG is too brutal. i'm really hoping this stream will make things more clear, i'm even trying to stay up for it, even though it's already midnight and it's not gonna start until 1:30 am lol. i'm hoping, but being a balance sage i've been hammered by the nerf bat a lot lol, so my faith in them always doing the best thing is kinda shaky lol:D:D:D

[Jadescythe]

He's saying it will be better, this is just the foundation. Which I tend to agree with, given some optimism.

 

BW has been known to make improvements to the gear system, but I'm not hopeful for 2 reasons. First, they are very delayed in changing gear systems and generally wait for major updates to do them. This would leave us with this system for multiple months at least. Secondly, this change in itself is an enormous step backwards. They had done so much to make gearing more consistent and efficient only to completely backtrack to a system that functions in the complete opposite manner. A total 180 on gear philosophy doesn't give me hope that they will want to shift back to the old ways (in terms of speed and certainty) anytime soon.

[Alloou]

kind of reminds me of those tokens u can craft in WoW to catch up ur alts on the ancient knowledge ranks so they gain the points faster for their weapon development lol:D:D:D is very nice, but it does sound like it has potential for even more problems than we have ATM

 

It's not exactly like this. In WoW each class has more or less 3 specializations (disciplines). For each one of them there is a legendary/artifact weapon which needs Artifact Power to gain additional talents (some times new abilities, other times just a flat % dps bonus or flat %cd reduction.

Every 3-4 days of research you gain an Artifact knowledge level. That level is the same for all our weapons. So you can invest 0 Artifact power on one discipline weapon at the beginning, come back after a month and gain 5-10-15 traits directly because of the Artifact knowledge multiplier

Edited December 8, 2016 by Alloou

[Hichitsuki-hime]

It's not exactly like this. In WoW each class has more or less 3 specializations (disciplines). For each one of them there is a legendary/artifact weapon which needs Artifact Power to gain additional talents (some times new abilities, other times just a flat % dps bonus or flat %cd reduction.

Every 3-4 days of research you gain an Artifact knowledge level. That level is the same for all our weapons. So you can invest 0 Artifact power on one discipline weapon, come back after a month and gain 5-10-15 traits directly because of the Artifact knowledge multiplier

yeah i know. when my mage hit 110, my research was 7 days, now it is down to 3-4 on my alt. so my second toon gets the research done faster and so increases her AP gain faster.

[Alloou]

yeah i know. when my mage hit 110, my research was 7 days, now it is down to 3-4 on my alt. so my second toon gets the research done faster and so increases her AP gain faster.

 

My brother has 7 at 110

[Hichitsuki-hime]

BW has been known to make improvements to the gear system, but I'm not hopeful for 2 reasons. First, they are very delayed in changing gear systems and generally wait for major updates to do them. This would leave us with this system for multiple months at least. Secondly, this change in itself is an enormous step backwards. They had done so much to make gearing more consistent and efficient only to completely backtrack to a system that functions in the complete opposite manner. A total 180 on gear philosophy doesn't give me hope that they will want to shift back to the old ways (in terms of speed and certainty) anytime soon.

what also irkes me is that they've continuously worked on removing RNG from classes, from procs and so on. because they knew people didn't like it, they dumbed it down made it easier and more predictable. so what on earth made them think that we'd like that RNG in the question of do we get a gear piece or not? 0.o like how does this make ANY sense at all??? :eek::eek::eek:

[Aowin]

This is a sure fire way to get your player base to hate you. Sure, make your long time subscribers grind for months to gear a character and then change the system 4 months later so you can do it in half the time to help new players. I bet everyone will love that idea.

 

MMOs are always a work-in-progress. They are never done. We are always the guinea pigs when it comes to brand new systems. It's also been the case that those who come later generally benefit from our struggles and the feedback we provide. That's just how it goes when you are the first ones to try something and the studio is reliant on your feedback to effectively tweak it. If being a guinea pig, which is a case in all MMOs, is something players don't like, then come back months later when things have settled.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

My brother has 7 at 110

 

lol i only played wow for a total of 3 months, couldn't find people to play with and chat with while playing and left. the few people that moved to wow from swtor at the introduction of DvL wanted to tackle the equivalent of nim ops asap , i couldn't really catch up to their speed cause it's not like i've played any mmo except swtor lol

[Jamtas]

BioWare is busy actually working on the game. They don't have time to speak to us all of the time. They also generally won't speak on an issue until it's 100% locked down and they know it's going to happen. I can understand why they are cautious and only address an issue when they already have a solution for it.

 

But that is actually what the job of a community manager is, right? Since the 3rd when the patch occurred, we've only had posts from Tait. I get there will be a livestream today, but wouldn't a post by the community manager (not a dev taking time away from working on the game) be something that could have gone a long way to letting players know they were heard?

 

I'm not naive to think that him saying something wouldn't be met with naysayers as well - but the damned if you do damned if you don't so we just won't position does little to build/strengthen/repair a rapport with the community.

 

I mean, I'd lvoe to see the posts made that weren't just announcements or ""we're working on X, more to follow". Where are the threads interacting with the forums asking people wht they think, like/dislike, etc?

 

Steve Jobs once said (and paraphrasing here) "I don't do research because customers don't know what they want until I've given it to them"

 

That really feels like the mantra of this team. The RNG crates just feel like, we know what's best for you, so you're wrong in not liking it. And the silence (hopefully after livestream today, they address and give plan of action or why they are not making changes at this time.) doesn't help.

 

Its obvious how you feel and why you defend the change. In your view it is right and you like it, in mine and others it isn't and we don't like it. Both sides basing on their own perspectives. But even you agree the system as it is needs to have changes. It would be nice if the community could be "managed" during times like these and not ignored to where they fester up and become angrier and angrier.

[eartharioch]

There are always a few exceptions, but MMORPGs were really the games that began pushing the boundaries of what an MMORPG could be in what was then the early days of the internet.

 

Do you realize that this sentence makes no sense? It's like saying that if it wasn't for football you wouldn't be playing football today. FYI, there's a really good comedy sketch from the '80s that makes that point exactly...I can send you a link to it, if you'd like. And I don't know that I'd call the mid-late '90s (when MMORPGs started) "the early days of the internet" -- even the web had been around for years by that time, and the internet predates the web.

 

I get that you don't think that there's anything wrong with gear-based PVP, but don't try to ignore the long history of skill-based PVP games just because they weren't all on "The Internet". Also, do realize that Doom (and other LAN-party) games used IP -- the Internet Protocol, which is the same network protocol we are using today. They weren't *massive*, but fyi swtor ranked pvp is 4x4, so eight players -- not exactly a huge leap from four player death matches from the early 90s.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Do you realize that this sentence makes no sense? It's like saying that if it wasn't for football you wouldn't be playing football today. FYI, there's a really good comedy sketch from the '80s that makes that point exactly...I can send you a link to it, if you'd like. And I don't know that I'd call the mid-late '90s (when MMORPGs started) "the early days of the internet" -- even the web had been around for years by that time, and the internet predates the web.

 

I get that you don't think that there's anything wrong with gear-based PVP, but don't try to ignore the long history of skill-based PVP games just because they weren't all on "The Internet". Also, do realize that Doom (and other LAN-party) games used IP -- the Internet Protocol, which is the same network protocol we are using today. They weren't *massive*, but fyi swtor ranked pvp is 4x4, so eight players -- not exactly a huge leap from four player death matches from the early 90s.

 

eh, he's been talking more or less in A circle for 60+pages now lol, though i do see sensible sentences here and there. it's his opinion and he's entitled to it.............. i just want to actually understand the logic of it. so far he's failing make see said logic:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Aowin]

But that is actually what the job of a community manager is, right? Since the 3rd when the patch occurred, we've only had posts from Tait. I get there will be a livestream today, but wouldn't a post by the community manager (not a dev taking time away from working on the game) be something that could have gone a long way to letting players know they were heard?

 

I'm not naive to think that him saying something wouldn't be met with naysayers as well - but the damned if you do damned if you don't so we just won't position does little to build/strengthen/repair a rapport with the community.

 

I mean, I'd lvoe to see the posts made that weren't just announcements or ""we're working on X, more to follow". Where are the threads interacting with the forums asking people wht they think, like/dislike, etc?

 

Steve Jobs once said (and paraphrasing here) "I don't do research because customers don't know what they want until I've given it to them"

 

That really feels like the mantra of this team. The RNG crates just feel like, we know what's best for you, so you're wrong in not liking it. And the silence (hopefully after livestream today, they address and give plan of action or why they are not making changes at this time.) doesn't help.

 

Its obvious how you feel and why you defend the change. In your view it is right and you like it, in mine and others it isn't and we don't like it. Both sides basing on their own perspectives. But even you agree the system as it is needs to have changes. It would be nice if the community could be "managed" during times like these and not ignored to where they fester up and become angrier and angrier.

 

Well then, I encourage you to send Eric a private message and address your grievances to him directly. It's not my place to say how he should spend his time or what he should say. I know he's always actively watching the forums, but oftentimes he just doesn't have a lot to say because BioWare is working on things. Not to mention, his obligations as Community Manager are more than just talking to irate subscribers on the forums. I don't blame him for not having as much of a voice as we'd like. He has a challenging job and the community is always going to want more answers.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Well then, I encourage you to send Eric a private message and address your grievances to him directly. It's not my place to say how he should spend his time or what he should say. I know he's always actively watching the forums, but oftentimes he just doesn't have a lot to say because BioWare is working on things. Not to mention, his obligations as Community Manager are more than just talking to irate subscribers on the forums. I don't blame him for not having as much of a voice as we'd like. He has a challenging job and the community is always going to want more answers.

lol i'd volunteer to do it, if they'd pay me and make it my job =) imagine. i get to talk to u all day and get $$ for it. i think it'd be like a dream come true type of job:D:D:D:D

[Kurj]

lol i'd volunteer to do it, if they'd pay me and make it my job =) imagine. i get to talk to u all day and get $$ for it. i think it'd be like a dream come true type of job:D:D:D:D

 

I don't think you could pay me enough. This poor guy gets it from both sides - his bosses are griping him to deal with us, and we're griping him to deal with his bosses. No thanks.