RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

And even with a consistent raid group tracking who has what, I have had occasion where I did not get any loot for two or more months. It was a running gag when this happened that I or someone else would be the last person to get loot because luck was so bad.

 

well... have a hug, u've been really unlucky, i know ur pain... but.... well.... this RNG **** could very well be worse :eek:

[peter_plankskull]

Not really. You might have gotten lucky. RNG is RNG. I ran several raids where I got nothing. Maybe I should have thrown a tantrum.

 

No, you never got "nothing" persay when you ran raids. Perhaps, nothing good, yes, but you also got crystals or commendations to spend once you killed each boss, and while yes, they aren't nearly as good as a set piece bonus, there better than nothing.

[Alssaran]

Not really. You might have gotten lucky. RNG is RNG. I ran several raids where I got nothing. Maybe I should have thrown a tantrum.

 

That completely missed the point.

 

Influencing the old RNG system did not require a guild. It required you to set the rules as the pug started, and then everyone just ran with it. Your assumption that the old grind could only be influenced by having a dedicated raiding guild is wrong. The chances you didn't get anything useful with the old system were less profound than they are in GC. You only feel as if you get more useful stuff because it's personal loot. You assume that you get more sets because "Nobody can take something away from you." If the drop-rate of set gear is ten times lower than what it was before, you still get less than before.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Alssaran

[Jadescythe]

They should have done a gear exchange instead of disintegration, and made the drop rates better. Or they should, at least, if this is the system they're going to go with. In the end, if the crates are done right, this could be way better for the game. We won't all agree on what's right or how they should do it, and obviously it isn't perfect in it's current iteration, but I think it could work with some tweaks.

 

Yes, there is a good quality in the GC system where players get gear without having to raid. But focusing on that is like being happy about your mechanic fixing your AC while breaking the engine. Everyone will be comfortable inside, but it no longer serves its main purpose.

[Andryah]

lol... wrong thread...sorry. Edited December 6, 2016 by Andryah

[Jadescythe]

And even with a consistent raid group tracking who has what, I have had occasion where I did not get any loot for two or more months. It was a running gag when this happened that I or someone else would be the last person to get loot because luck was so bad.

 

There are only three explanations for this.

 

1) You weren't killing anything to get loot

2) You already had much better gear than everyone else and did not need the gear

3) You were using the worst loot system known to man

[RiVaN_]

So quick question?

Who in this thread actually thinks that the GC system and the RNG loot mill is a good idea?

 

 

Who thinks it is a bad idea?

 

 

Notice I'm not asking, "why." I just wanna see who likes it and who doesn't.

[psandak]

Disagree 100%. In 4.x they took a very good step in the direction of a non-gear-based system, and are now trying to roll it back. Having the best gear isn't some sort of "reward;" it merely puts you on the same level of everyone else. When I get BiS gear for a character, I finally feel like I can start to enjoy the game because I'm not at an inherent disadvantage. If only hardcore raiders have access to the best gear, it creates an exclusionary system of inequality which breeds the kind of elitism we see in raid communities in this and other games.

 

They've gone and created yet another exclusionary system, except now instead of hardcore raiders it's people with 10+ hours/day to grind CXP for months on end. Add to this the fact that certain content is simply not possible without a certain gear level, locking people out of what they want to play, and that's the problem in a nutshell.

 

First of all, Hardcore Raiders and "people with 10+ hours/day" are all but one in the same. I know because I was one a long time ago (EQ1 Hardcore guild: raids werer held six nights a week for four hours each night AND members were required to play above and beyond raids to get Alternate Advancement points for required abilities...this usually meant 2 additional hours a night and many more hours on the weekend).

 

Secondly, how is creating a system where anyone can do anything and get the best gear available an exclusive system? Before the ONLY way to get best rating set bonus pieces was raiding. Now one can get best rating set bonus pieces 100% solo. YES, it will take a long time if one does it 100% solo, but it can be done and that's a good thing.

[Jamtas]

And even with a consistent raid group tracking who has what, I have had occasion where I did not get any loot for two or more months. It was a running gag when this happened that I or someone else would be the last person to get loot because luck was so bad.

 

It sounds like you didn't have a team keeping things along the fair line as luck would have nothing to do with it. Unless you guys just weren't downing the bosses in that case, I'd say everyone was unlucky.

 

And due to bringing new team members on, I'd go a long time not getting gear as well. But I still got non set drops and crystals that i used to gear up alts. (or even a repeat set piece for that same purpose)

 

14 boxes in and I've gotten mostly cosmetic shells, comp gifts, bound weapon shells I can't use on the character who go them, 230 wrist/bracer schematics.and reputation boxes for things I'm maxed out on.

 

pre 5.0, the loot I would have gotten for what I played would be superior to what I've gotten in this system.

 

Not a fan.

[Jamtas]

First of all, Hardcore Raiders and "people with 10+ hours/day" are all but one in the same. I know because I was one a long time ago (EQ1 Hardcore guild: raids werer held six nights a week for four hours each night AND members were required to play above and beyond raids to get Alternate Advancement points for required abilities...this usually meant 2 additional hours a night and many more hours on the weekend).

 

Secondly, how is creating a system where anyone can do anything and get the best gear available an exclusive system? Before the ONLY way to get best rating set bonus pieces was raiding. Now one can get best rating set bonus pieces 100% solo. YES, it will take a long time if one does it 100% solo, but it can be done and that's a good thing.

 

My group and I ran 2 nights a week for 3 hours and were doing NiM and HM Operation content. that's not 140+ hours/day. that's 6/week.

 

GC as a supplement to ops token drops I'd be all for. But GC only means that to get the gear I have to spend more time grinding things in game I'd rather do occasionally or not at all to earn up a "chance" at the gear I want.

 

I'm for keeping it as a supplement just not the only way.

[Celise]

I certainly understand your concerns and I do believe they are warranted. However, your doomsday scenario truly only comes to life if most of the community is at these higher tiers and a newcomer finds themselves hours upon hours away from catching up. Of course, it's quite possible BioWare will implement CXP weekends and the like to help newcomers catch up to those who are farther ahead. We already know CXP boosts will be coming to the Cartel Market in the near future.

 

well there is a way to shoot down your own argument, you say it is inclusive and that the new system works for everyone and then agree that in fact new players can be disadvantaged in the future but then you want to hide behind ignorance is bliss by giving an excuse.

 

i'm not buying it.

 

as a matter of fact i have played this game since beta and with 5.0 i have no more motivation to stick around and watch the RNG crates dictate what i can and cannot do on this "game". note i put speech marks around game, because a game is meant to be a fun diversion, but somewhere along the line it seems too many forget that is it is meant to be a fun diversion. what you are arguing is like calling a car a tree instead of calling it a car.

 

as i mentioned i am not buying your argument about the RNG crates since you yourself just agreed that your wrong.

 

i am expecting a logic excuse response, but thats okay, i am not interested in reading it. but hey your the one who wants to hide behind ignorance with your inclusive excuse.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Celise

[Vember]

No, you never got "nothing" persay when you ran raids. Perhaps, nothing good, yes, but you also got crystals or commendations to spend once you killed each boss, and while yes, they aren't nearly as good as a set piece bonus, there better than nothing.

 

If you were in a raid guild. Pug raids on Harb were more RNG than these crates.

[Jadescythe]

If you were in a raid guild. Pug raids on Harb were more RNG than these crates.

 

Every PUG raid I did on Harb (a LOT of raids) was 1 set piece per person, catalysts to anyone who didn't get a set piece and then roll on the extras. So if you rolled on everything you had a better than 50% chance to get a piece in most raids. Assuming people are getting a crate per operation, you have a significantly worse chance of getting a set piece from an operation today as you did back then.

[Tsillah]

If you were in a raid guild. Pug raids on Harb were more RNG than these crates.

 

Then you should've started your pug groups yourself. That's the only way to avoid ninja looters. Why do I say ninja looters? Because unless you had regular ninja looters, you're talking out of your rear end.

[Vember]

Then you should've started your pug groups yourself. That's the only way to avoid ninja looters. Why do I say ninja looters? Because unless you had regular ninja looters, you're talking out of your rear end.

 

Never encountered a ninja looter. I did encounter a lot of failed runs. Pugs are pugs, I'm not complaining about it. I'm just saying, pug raids weren't the gear factory you all are making them out to be.

[Quraswren]

Tempted to just take down my old comment and have this in its stead, this is 200% better .

 

Its a very solid post. Combine that with a solid group that doesn't distribute gear though RNG but something like suicide loot kings and there is no random to it. If it is your turn to get gear you get get the gear. You want a specific item. Save your turn till you can get exactly what you want.

 

We were able to plan out our groups gearing over the months.

[Jadescythe]

Then you should've started your pug groups yourself. That's the only way to avoid ninja looters. Why do I say ninja looters? Because unless you had regular ninja looters, you're talking out of your rear end.

 

Didn't have a ninja looter in at least 30 or 40 PUG runs if not more.

[Tsillah]

Never encountered a ninja looter. I did encounter a lot of failed runs. Pugs are pugs, I'm not complaining about it. I'm just saying, pug raids weren't the gear factory you all are making them out to be.

 

On TRE I've had much better success even with pugs but you do have to get to know people a bit to learn which groups to join and which not. I know not everybody has that possibility but group content is always depend on, well, groups. If you don't choose to be in a guild that does at least casual raiding, then I think it's your choice to condemn yourself to pugs. In that sense GC is good for you I suppose since you can solo your way to gear...but being in a group with guildies or friends is infinitely more effective than GC will ever be and I cannot believe that you would not have had that possibility.

[Jeweledleah]

And even with a consistent raid group tracking who has what, I have had occasion where I did not get any loot for two or more months. It was a running gag when this happened that I or someone else would be the last person to get loot because luck was so bad.

 

what in a world did you do with all the crystals (and before crystals - commendations) you were getting off each and every boss kill??? because even when my luck was crappy when raiding, I still bought upgrades with crystals. all the time.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Jeweledleah

[Aowin]

well there is a way to shoot down your own argument, you say it is inclusive and that the new system works for everyone and then agree that in fact new players can be disadvantaged in the future but then you want to hide behind ignorance is bliss by giving an excuse.

 

i'm not buying it.

 

as a matter of fact i have played this game since beta and with 5.0 i have no more motivation to stick around and watch the RNG crates dictate what i can and cannot do on this "game". note i put speech marks around game, because a game is meant to be a fun diversion, but somewhere along the line it seems too many forget that is it is meant to be a fun diversion. what you are arguing is like calling a car a tree instead of calling it a car.

 

as i mentioned i am not buying your argument about the RNG crates since you yourself just agreed that your wrong.

 

i am expecting a logic excuse response, but thats okay, i am not interested in reading it. but hey your the one who wants to hide behind ignorance with your inclusive excuse.

 

You are misconstruing the discussion then. Your petty and childish insults also do nothing to further your own point of view. At this very moment, all players have an even playing field, whether they are newcomers or veterans. Yes, there could be potential issues as the system progresses and players move through the ranks leading to divisions. However, BioWare will likely counteract this phenomenon with CXP weekends and other methods to keep the command rank relatively level among the majority of players. I've already stated by the time the next expansion releases BioWare will likely either reset command ranks back to 1 or provide tokens for players to catch up to everybody else.

 

Without a doubt, Galactic Command is far more intuitive, fair, and inclusive compared to its predecessors. Obviously, any system is not without faults. That being said, Galactic Command is a great foundation for a fair and balanced gear progression system and BioWare will continue to iterate upon it and improve it over time. The old system was beyond redemption which is why BioWare scrapped it. This truly is the best way to make a system that creates that fair and competitive environment many of you are advocating for. Pre-4.0, many communities were divided purely by gear and you had "the haves" and "the have nots." That scenario, even in the elder life of this system, will not be nearly as prevalent.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Aowin

[Jamtas]

You are misconstruing the discussion then. Your petty and childish insults also do nothing to further your own point of view. At this very moment, all players have an even playing field, whether they are newcomers or veterans. Yes, there could be potential issues as the system progresses and players move through the ranks leading to divisions. However, BioWare will likely counteract this phenomenon with CXP weekends and other methods to keep the command rank relatively level among the majority of players. I've already stated by the time the next expansion releases BioWare will likely either reset command ranks back to 1 or provide tokens for players to catch up to everybody else.

 

Without a doubt, Galactic Command is far more intuitive, fair, and inclusive compared to its predecessors. Obviously, any system is not without faults. That being said, Galactic Command is a great foundation for a fair and balanced gear progression system and BioWare will continue to iterate upon it and improve it over time. The old system was beyond redemption which is why BioWare scrapped it. This truly is the best way to make a system that creates that fair and competitive environment many of you are advocating for. Pre-4.0, many communities were divided purely by gear and you had "the haves" and "the have nots." That scenario, even in the elder life of this system, will not be nearly as prevalent.

 

I'd disagree. I believe GC values luck and volume of play vs skill.

Those that can put in the most time (or setup bots) will rule over those who can't

[Vember]

Without a doubt, Galactic Command is far more intuitive, fair, and inclusive compared to its predecessors. Obviously, any system is not without faults. That being said, Galactic Command is a great foundation for a fair and balanced gear progression system and BioWare will continue to iterate upon it and improve it over time. The old system was beyond redemption which is why BioWare scrapped it. This truly is the best way to make a system that creates that fair and competitive environment many of you are advocating for. Pre-4.0, many communities were divided purely by gear and you had "the haves" and "the have nots." That scenario, even in the elder life of this system, will not be nearly as prevalent.

 

Couldn't agree more. Tweaks and changes will come down the road, I have no doubt.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Vember

[Vember]

Those that can put in the most time (or setup bots) will rule over those who can't

 

 

Every MMO is and always has been like this.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Vember

[gabigool]

You are misconstruing the discussion then. Your petty and childish insults also do nothing to further your own point of view. At this very moment, all players have an even playing field, whether they are newcomers or veterans. Yes, there could be potential issues as the system progresses and players move through the ranks leading to divisions. However, BioWare will likely counteract this phenomenon with CXP weekends and other methods to keep the command rank relatively level among the majority of players. I've already stated by the time the next expansion releases BioWare will likely either reset command ranks back to 1 or provide tokens for players to catch up to everybody else.

 

Without a doubt, Galactic Command is far more intuitive, fair, and inclusive compared to its predecessors. Obviously, any system is not without faults. That being said, Galactic Command is a great foundation for a fair and balanced gear progression system and BioWare will continue to iterate upon it and improve it over time. The old system was beyond redemption which is why BioWare scrapped it. This truly is the best way to make a system that creates that fair and competitive environment many of you are advocating for. Pre-4.0, many communities were divided purely by gear and you had "the haves" and "the have nots." That scenario, even in the elder life of this system, will not be nearly as prevalent.

 

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.

 

Randomness by its very nature will be uneven. I've opened >30 packs with 0 set bonuses. I personally don't much care because I'm a tank - but it certainly doesn't feel "even" when I know people with 3 set pieces in 14 levels.

 

Sure, you can say "Well, we have even chances". OK. But if you want me to accept that as valid, you need to accept this as valid too:

 

"Pre 5.0 everyone had an even opportunity to get every piece of gear in the game."

 

Because that is equally true. Your point is in no way more valid than mine. If you wanted any piece of gear in 2.x or 3.x or 4.x all you had to do was go get it. It was there for anyone. No one was barred.

 

In other words, being on an even playing field is not unique to 5.0.

 

#tryharder

 

P.S. Hope to see you at the stream o/

[IFranchizeI]

You are misconstruing the discussion then. Your petty and childish insults also do nothing to further your own point of view. At this very moment, all players have an even playing field, whether they are newcomers or veterans. Yes, there could be potential issues as the system progresses and players move through the ranks leading to divisions. However, BioWare will likely counteract this phenomenon with CXP weekends and other methods to keep the command rank relatively level among the majority of players. I've already stated by the time the next expansion releases BioWare will likely either reset command ranks back to 1 or provide tokens for players to catch up to everybody else.

 

Without a doubt, Galactic Command is far more intuitive, fair, and inclusive compared to its predecessors. Obviously, any system is not without faults. That being said, Galactic Command is a great foundation for a fair and balanced gear progression system and BioWare will continue to iterate upon it and improve it over time. The old system was beyond redemption which is why BioWare scrapped it. This truly is the best way to make a system that creates that fair and competitive environment many of you are advocating for. Pre-4.0, many communities were divided purely by gear and you had "the haves" and "the have nots." That scenario, even in the elder life of this system, will not be nearly as prevalent.

 

I will avoid typing in all caps for the moment. We will start with a simple definition as you clearly have no idea what the words you type mean.

 

A Random Number Generator is a function object that can be used to generate a random sequence of integers. That is: if f is a Random Number Generator and N is a positive integer, then f(N) will return an integer less than N and greater than or equal to 0.

 

Fair - free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice

 

Balanced - a state of equilibrium or equipoise; equal distribution of weight, amount, etc.

 

Do you now see how RANDOM loot drops are neither fair nor balanced in the least. However, the old method was both fair and balanced BY definition.

 

For Example it was balanced as in equal distribution of tokens and rewards were given to all except on very specific drops. However now we have a very unbalanced system that is 100% based on luck and is not at all about equal distribution it's the opposite.

 

Fair - I'm just going to point out that all who have opened 20 command crates and have received no upgrades well they probably feel they have had an "injustice" done to them.

 

Also if you want to even the playing field; we could always just delete EVERYTHING! That would accomplish both fair and balanced. Well just introduce seasons and then everyone can have a fresh start every 3 months. Then we can all rush up the leaderboards in our RNG gear and brag about our E-PEEN drop and every 3 months a new winner will be crowned. Every 3 months a bot will be the most successful player as the system rewards TIME PLAYED not Content Completed.

 

Wait.. I got it! Eureka! You sir must have a gambling addiction which in turn has made you certain that fair and balanced is the reason you go to the slot's everyday. Your sir should seek help immediately; gambling is an addiction and the RNG jesus will not be fair and balanced to you. I now feel empathy for you.

Edited December 6, 2016 by IFranchizeI