Bioware, Your Game Isn't Fun Anymore.

[AshenK]

Play 1.5, it's vastly improved upon since launch. Sadly, not something I can say about recent developments in this game, just seems to be getting slightly off-track (well okay, it's off the rails and sliding down a ravine)

bro i did and it's bad.

 

its another case in point of them making things easy when they should be putting in raids and making things harder. people want hard content when are devs going to get that? take ffxiv everyone loves it as you have to group and work with others. if you want a solo game go get the million boring wrpgs like failout 4 or some of the just outstanding jrpgs that are out on the ps4 right now.

[Leklor]

Posting my own feedback on the matter.

I'm a story/solo player, and until the very end of KOTET Chapter 9, I had mostly enjoyed my time on SWTOR. Sure, it had a few moments I had nothing new to do (Was unsubbed for most of RotHC expansion cycle) but I had found a certain balance. Most of my characters (Around 30) were at level cap and they had entry level "end-game" gear (For example 208 in 4.0) with my main having 216 crystal gear instead.

I didn't do Ops or HM FPs because it just didn't appeal to me.

When they first unveiled Galactic Command, I was mildly curious. I could absolutely understand why better players who were reliant on gear to access their favorite content could dislike it but I thought it wouldn't be too bad. Sure the gear was going to be RNG but it would still drop often and be rewarded for any type of content, I thought. It also didn't seem very alt-friendly.

How wrong was I. Not only the GC is a slow drag but it litteraly murdered my motivation to keep playing. Everything comes so slowly, it's just insane. Playing my favored content (Heroics, Chapters and Uprisings/FPs) it would take an eternity to even gain ranks after a time.

I was planning on waiting a few weeks before buying a new time card after my current sub expires (Second week of December) but more and more I'm considering simply waiting for 6.0, should it come some day.

 

One thing is certain: GC is too grindy, I could have been interested if it hadn't been so tedious and so random. But it's both so I'll pass.

[LogicalPremise]

Here's the problem:

 

It's great that some people like it. I'm happy for them.

However, it's also driving people away from the game, and the response from the people who are happy seems to be very little other than 'well, bye'.

 

You know the LAST TIME we saw that reaction? SWG and the NGE.

 

The 'command system' is utterly pointless for the following reasons:

 

1) It actively punishes alt creation.

2) For casual players who just want to have enough gear to run storymode ops, it no longer allows you to run dailies and the like to build up equipment.

3) It has made PVP a complete mess, with no real improvements.

4) The RNG system is NOT giving us much that is useful, so you are now stuck trying to play an already inflated GTN to buy specific mods, except now everything is in credits which is another money sink.

5) Instead of encouraging groups and guilds, and teaching people how to play, it encourages grinders, bots, and those who have long periods of time to play. Some of us with jobs, kids, medical issues or the like are now at an immense disadvantage.

6) It has no real connection to anything in the game, it's just THERE. This isn't 'end game', it's just grind for the sake of grind.

 

Like a lot of other people, I've been here since launch. I've unsubbed before, and probably after I finish the story I will again, because there is NOTHING IN THIS 'EXPANSION' TO KEEP PLAYERS HERE AFTER THE STORY IS DONE. NOTHING.

 

If BW thinks this will be a win, I feel very sorry for the team who obviously worked very hard on a wonderful story that will be ignored due to all the complaints, unneccessary changes, stupid nerfs, messes like reducing command XP for golds, and every other misstep.

[Swtorevolution]

Gear isn't tied to CXP. Set bonuses are tied to CXP. Gear you can craft. Edited December 3, 2016 by Swtorevolution

[BarrinMarshall]

I just want to give my thoughts on the 5.0 expansion.

 

It's not fun.

 

Lets start a few months back.....

Bioware creates an event, DvL, that encourages us to create lots of alts and play them to an advanced level. And to also encourage us to complete lots of different kinds of content within the game. Cool. I'm ok with that.

 

I have been here since launch and had not completed some of that content. So, I create 9 new characters and completed the Legendary achievement for the event. It was a long haul through a lot of stuff I had already done and some I had not. I created toons in new rolls, such as healing, that I had not played before in order to break up the monotony. Much to my surprise, I enjoyed DvL.

 

Now comes 5.0. It's not fun.

 

First, Bioware takes away my achievement for the DvL event. A lot of time and effort feels wiped away. That's not nice.

 

With Galactic Command System, playing any of my alts (that Bioware encouraged me to make) feels punitive. Punitive for me, my guild team members, and for pvp teammates. That's not fun.

 

The RNG gear boxes feel punitive as well. In fact, I believe the new gearing system is the WORST part of the expansion. It's not fun.

 

Grinding away at GCXP is horrible. I don't know anyone who plays a game and says "wow, grinding all that crap was fun!". You know why? Because GRINDING IS NOT FUN.

 

On top of that, they ask me to run the same content, yet again, for rewards and GCXP. That content was fun a few years ago. Now? They're not fun.

 

Oh yeah, the new DvL systems is dumb. After doing the original DvL and seeing Light Side win very easily, what made Bioware think the new DvL system would be any different? Watching Light Side win over and over and over and over................ is not fun.

 

So my question is, if Bioware is in the game business, why would they create a game expansion that is NOT FUN? If you actually read this post, the title should have you very concerned. People don't play, nor pay, for games that are not fun.

 

You know whats less fun than playing SWTOR 5.0? ................ Paying for it.

 

I really hope changes are made to the entire system. I have removed my payment info from my recurring sub. For now, I can't bring myself to play. It's just not fun.

 

 

TLDR - This just isn't fun.

 

Good luck and happy gaming.

 

Absolutely brilliantly written post that I'll wager the majority of the community is feeling right now to some degree or another.

[Transcendent]

Gear isn't tied to CXP. Set bonuses are tied to CXP. Gear you can craft.

 

If you can let me know how I can craft something with set bonuses, I'm all ears.

[Swtorevolution]

If you can let me know how I can craft something with set bonuses, I'm all ears.

 

Allow me to calrify.

 

Gear isn't tied to CXP because you can craft gear with the same stats.

 

The only thing tied to CXP are the set bonuses.

 

Do you understand?

[Transcendent]

Do you understand?

 

Clearly you don't.

[DrewFromPhilly]

Good point. I think a grind system is needed for SWTOR much like ESO has the Champion system and WoW at the moment has the Artifact Power system. Something for everyone to progress towards. Tying gear to this system was the wrong way to go.

 

I still think the game is fun though.

 

The champion points in ESO just straight up killed that game for me, as someone with zero points trying to catch up to players with nearly 600 so I could even have a chance in pvp - no thank you, especially considering that how i wanted to play granted me nearly no champion points at all and they keep expanding the cap. That's not fun, that's ********

 

GW2 got it right. End game gear is easily accessible, but there are still tiers that are only slightly (i think it's like 5% in a full set iirc) better that require time/effort to get for those who want something to work towards. They also have legendary weapons that require a ridiculous amount of time to get because they require a long list of accomplishments, but all of them are unique and good for showing off while not giving players any kind of real advantage stat wise. For example, the bow shoots out three unicorns that charge into the target and the greatsword has this streak effect that hangs around when you swing it. It shows people you accomplished something and earned that, but it's not a requirement at all and it doesn't give you any real advantage.

Edited December 4, 2016 by DrewFromPhilly

[FSavop]

As a veteran player who resubed to see how things were, I will be unsubbing after 1 month if no drastic changes are made to this system.

 

You don't make the grind HARDER on a burned out community after introducing no new group content, if anything they should have made it EASIER for those loyal enough to the game participate in ops which are ancient. How about some legacy implants/ears/relics for your long time subs? Nope, lets just implement a system no one seems to like.

 

Grats, you got $15 out of me.

[JamieKirby]

Since a "long time subscriber' has said that the game no longer has anything for us, here's my two cents.

 

I think it's great, and for the record I've been subscribed non-stop since pre-launch (minus about a week total but not consecutive)

 

As for the new gear...

 

The old way: Do a lot of OPS to get tokens to buy gear and for your main hand you have to compete vs. other players IF your particular class's item even drops in the first place.

 

The new way: Do whatever you want, earn command xp, get boxes that give you the gear directly based on an RNG, sure.. but you are competing only against the system, not other players. Really, it's the same thing that WoW has started doing... Personal Loot. SWtOR just took it a step further and lets you earn it via ANY activity, instead of just the top tier content.

 

Hell, I just for the first time made a Zabrak character at level 1 and I am going to play her through. Why? Because I've never played a zabrak and because I find the game fun.

 

Well, storylines are fun, the KOTET story was fun and i finished it quite fast in 1 night, but i do not see the part 'do what you like' and earn CXP, but i have to say that is wrong.....heroics 20CXP......so i will need to do them 100s of times to get anywhere, pvp is crap and boring, GSF is crap and boring, grouping for the flashpoints and operations part of the GCS is just unreliable unless its a full guild run, because random groups are just unreliable.

 

So, overall, you can NOT do whatever you want, because if you find anything that can help speed it up, without it being an exploit, EAware will just nerf it to the ground to slow things down even more, i love swtor, i loved the storylines, but if this crap GCS is the only thing that is going to be in the game for the forseeable future, then the game is not fun anymore.

 

All i can enjoy is 1-70 storylines, grouping randomly is unreliable and only leads to hissy fits and crying cause they rushed in like idiots and died.

 

EDIT: I was looking forward to this GCS, from what bioware was saying is that you can do anything, kill enemies and get CXP, i remember then saying you got 2-3 crates per rank, you just 1 and the heroics, you only get 20CXP and you can only do those heroics once per week.....20??? 200 is more worth it.

 

Other quests that you can only do once.......20cxp.......another thing that should be 200+, when it comes to Elites and Champions, 10 for elites (now 1.....idiotic change) and champions.....20.....that is the only thing that makes sense......not the 10 to 1 change, that is stupid, but everything is just dumb and i hope the powers that be stop smoking that pot and fix this.

Edited December 4, 2016 by JamieKirby

[AlatarTheGrey]

I've been playing this game since beta, and started mothballing my 12+ toons as soon as I read about the new gearing system that not only was clearly going to be a mindless grind, it's a very disingenuous way to try and condition all of us to buy cartel packs.

There was nothing broken with the old gearing system, and no matter what anyone says, this was supposed to be an MMO game, so yes, those of us in guilds should have been able to group up and play operation after operation and/or PvP until we dropped to rebuild our gear sets.

Instead cut scene after cut scene and no new multi-player ops in years while taking away the ability to gear our toons (including alts for the right group roles) in an orderly manner, mainly IMO to condition us for RNG cartel pack madness and in the off-chance we wouldn't notice the lack of new content we'd want to play repeatedly.

Personally I'm not re-subbing and logging in until they change the gearing system and either get rid of the CXP or make it legacy to get rid of the grind. If that's not for months or never, so be it - not going to waste time or money.

[Voemel]

Absolutely brilliantly written post that I'll wager the majority of the community is feeling right now to some degree or another.

 

Thank you.

 

I hope it came across to Bioware just how much I dislike 5.0. I hear the story is much improved from KOTFE, which wouldn't have been to difficult to achieve, as that's a complete mess also.

 

But I can't bring myself to even begin KOTET because of all the horrible dumped in with it. I am sure I will get around to doing the story at some point, but 5.0 changes have killed any enthusiasm I had for it.

 

Other games have attempted RNG gear grinds. They didn't go over so well either.

 

I hope they implement changes throughout this 5.0 crapfest. I would love to return to my once favorite MMO.

 

Good luck and happy gaming.

[Degan]

Posting my own feedback on the matter.

I'm a story/solo player, and until the very end of KOTET Chapter 9, I had mostly enjoyed my time on SWTOR. Sure, it had a few moments I had nothing new to do (Was unsubbed for most of RotHC expansion cycle) but I had found a certain balance. Most of my characters (Around 30) were at level cap and they had entry level "end-game" gear (For example 208 in 4.0) with my main having 216 crystal gear instead.

I didn't do Ops or HM FPs because it just didn't appeal to me.

When they first unveiled Galactic Command, I was mildly curious. I could absolutely understand why better players who were reliant on gear to access their favorite content could dislike it but I thought it wouldn't be too bad. Sure the gear was going to be RNG but it would still drop often and be rewarded for any type of content, I thought. It also didn't seem very alt-friendly.

How wrong was I. Not only the GC is a slow drag but it litteraly murdered my motivation to keep playing. Everything comes so slowly, it's just insane. Playing my favored content (Heroics, Chapters and Uprisings/FPs) it would take an eternity to even gain ranks after a time.

I was planning on waiting a few weeks before buying a new time card after my current sub expires (Second week of December) but more and more I'm considering simply waiting for 6.0, should it come some day.

 

One thing is certain: GC is too grindy, I could have been interested if it hadn't been so tedious and so random. But it's both so I'll pass.

 

This post is exactly my experience and our play styles are identical. The only difference is I am letting my sub run out (12/9) and will just wait and see what happens.

[Neshira]

But would you pay 50 bucks for it and then a sub for 12 bucks a month?

 

I also would be happy with a single player game but not if I have to pay monthy to get access to the full game. The problem with your reasoning is that it needs MMO elements for the game to be worth paying for monthly. If SWTOR isn't doing that, why are we still paying a sub for this game?

 

That's why I unsubbed. I also like the story but I also like the MMO side of it and that's what would make it worth the sub I paid before. If it's just about the story I might as well go back to Mass Effect because guess what? I don't have to pay a sub for that and that's the point here.

 

I meant if they sold it once, no sub needed for a single player experience. Even though I've already paid in subs and pre-ordered the game I'd still pay that again to have it as a single player experience. It's a game I enjoy that will give me hours upon hours of fun.

[americanaussie]

As a veteran player who resubed to see how things were, I will be unsubbing after 1 month if no drastic changes are made to this system.

 

You don't make the grind HARDER on a burned out community after introducing no new group content, if anything they should have made it EASIER for those loyal enough to the game participate in ops which are ancient. How about some legacy implants/ears/relics for your long time subs? Nope, lets just implement a system no one seems to like.

 

Grats, you got $15 out of me.

 

The only thing being made more difficult is the heroics grind. This gearing system actually gets you gear faster. I'm level 10. In 2 days I've gotten 4 pieces of "USABLE" gear, 1 with set bonus, and 2 purple level weapons. Main hand and then last night I got the offhand. It'd take me a week of grinding to get half that before with crystals.

Edited December 4, 2016 by americanaussie

[stoopicus]

I have no problem with the rate of acquisition, but the choice for player choice of gear vs rng is a weird decision to make in 2016.

 

Which they could fix by bringing back vendors, even if they were scattered everywhere, and converting CXP to coinage. But that discussion has been beaten to death.

[Dunderheid]

The only thing being made more difficult is the heroics grind. This gearing system actually gets you gear faster. I'm level 10. In 2 days I've gotten 4 pieces of "USABLE" gear, 1 with set bonus, and 2 purple level weapons. Main hand and then last night I got the offhand. It'd take me a week of grinding to get half that before with crystals.

 

Sadly, it's not just the heroics, although that's the one that will affect solo players most. Most group content will be affected too, as flashpoints and ops both have Elites, so the CXP from them will be reduced too. Not sure about Uprisings, I've not tried them yet. Generally all PVE content will be affected to a greater or lesser extent. On an average character, playing class and planetary missions will have you at level 70 by the end of chapter 2 at the latest, so Chapter 3 and the expansions will be operating at a reduced rate of CXP too.

[Toraak]

Allow me to calrify.

 

Gear isn't tied to CXP because you can craft gear with the same stats.

 

The only thing tied to CXP are the set bonuses.

 

Do you understand?

 

but you can't craft gear of the same stats. All the crafted gear I've seen is A) unmodable, B) Lower power on it then any of the set bonus (which outright makes it inferior crap), so atm your better off using our 224 gear until we get our new Purple set bonus 230 or higher gear.

[TheKilltech]

i hated the old system. the entire end game was focused too much on grinding stupid stuff and making life hard for everyone else that didn't want to waste the time. now it seems content is balanced less towards players having all top gear which means that one isn't forced to grind so much if one just wants to take part in all sorts of activities. and i do really like it that i am now free to play as i want and still can progress my character.

 

first was the level synch, now this. i really enjoy the game being less focused around gear and instead story and gameplay taking a higher priority. it's still not optimal but it's again a step into the right direction.

[SithEmpress]

i hated the old system. the entire end game was focused too much on grinding stupid stuff and making life hard for everyone else that didn't want to waste the time. now it seems content is balanced less towards players having all top gear which means that one isn't forced to grind so much if one just wants to take part in all sorts of activities. and i do really like it that i am now free to play as i want and still can progress my character.

 

first was the level synch, now this. i really enjoy the game being less focused around gear and instead story and gameplay taking a higher priority. it's still not optimal but it's again a step into the right direction.

 

While I agree it nice to be able to get gear from all aspect of the game but they should have allowed us to gear both ways. That way players get a chance for best gear doing things beside OPS etc but it doesn't punish those who want to get gear out fast or have lots of alts. You say it was too focus on grinding stupid stuff, it still is. Now we have Alliance Rank, Companions Affection, and Command Rank to list a few, which are all terrible grind let alone the gear RNG that the new system brings in. As for the focus on gear, neither system forced you to get top gear unless you want to do endgame. To be honest I can continue playing the game I want, but for those looking to gear out there character for group content, pvp, or simple to speed up the daily grind this system really slow them down. It also not very friendly to alts which they did just encourage the player base to do.

 

Those of us who didn't care about gear won't be affect, thus make the system pointless for us but I bet a lot of people will be turned off maybe even leave. So I think it will do more harm then good. The command system should have been add as a bonus reward system for the players. They never should have cut the F2P and Preferred out of the gearing up, as now these player will have no choice but to be undergear even if they choose to do group stuff.

[Keetsune]

The game was promising before 2.0, but after 2.0 it's became more and more casual singleplayer game.

[mpddispatch]

Well, storylines are fun, the KOTET story was fun and i finished it quite fast in 1 night, but i do not see the part 'do what you like' and earn CXP, but i have to say that is wrong.....heroics 20CXP......so i will need to do them 100s of times to get anywhere, pvp is crap and boring, GSF is crap and boring, grouping for the flashpoints and operations part of the GCS is just unreliable unless its a full guild run, because random groups are just unreliable.

 

So, overall, you can NOT do whatever you want, because if you find anything that can help speed it up, without it being an exploit, EAware will just nerf it to the ground to slow things down even more, i love swtor, i loved the storylines, but if this crap GCS is the only thing that is going to be in the game for the forseeable future, then the game is not fun anymore.

 

All i can enjoy is 1-70 storylines, grouping randomly is unreliable and only leads to hissy fits and crying cause they rushed in like idiots and died.

 

EDIT: I was looking forward to this GCS, from what bioware was saying is that you can do anything, kill enemies and get CXP, i remember then saying you got 2-3 crates per rank, you just 1 and the heroics, you only get 20CXP and you can only do those heroics once per week.....20??? 200 is more worth it.

 

Other quests that you can only do once.......20cxp.......another thing that should be 200+, when it comes to Elites and Champions, 10 for elites (now 1.....idiotic change) and champions.....20.....that is the only thing that makes sense......not the 10 to 1 change, that is stupid, but everything is just dumb and i hope the powers that be stop smoking that pot and fix this.

 

Just wanted to clarify something in regards to the heroics for you. If you access heroics through the Story part of the Galactic Command screen it gives you a mission to complete all the heroics on a planet. If you complete them all you get around 400 CP, if I remember correctly. So yeah, the 20 CP per heroic is low, but if you take a planet with 5 heroics thats 100 CP plus the 400 CP for completing all the heroics on the planet your scoring about 500 CP, not to mention the CP you get from killing elites in the heroic. For example, I was given Belsavis heroics through the Galactic Command screen which contained 5 heroics, with the CP from each heroic, plus the CP for completing all of them and the CP for killing the elites inside the heroics I totaled almost 700 CP. Its not great, but its not bad either. I think people ae misled about heroics because they dont realize that the big CP score is from completing all the planets heroics.

[CorellianWannabe]

The only thing being made more difficult is the heroics grind. This gearing system actually gets you gear faster. I'm level 10. In 2 days I've gotten 4 pieces of "USABLE" gear, 1 with set bonus, and 2 purple level weapons. Main hand and then last night I got the offhand. It'd take me a week of grinding to get half that before with crystals.

 

And I've gotten gifts, junk, schematics that require group content to craft, worthless orange shells, green gear with mods barely better than what I can craft, and a pet. My cup truly runneth over.

 

It'd take me a day of grinding to get nearly all of that, and it would have been more useful.(at least the Alliance crates drop shells by class and not just random garbage).

 

I guess that means that RNG really does mean RNG-it hasn't gotten me gear any faster. Grinding companions to rank 50 influence is what has gotten me gear faster-so I guess thank you EA for making crafting relevant again? Too bad about Biochem though-only good for implants.

[DuckKing]

I renewed my subscription two days ago. Sorry fam, but I actually quite enjoyed this new expansion even though it has it's flaws.