Deaconik Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 RNG is only as good as the loot tables you draw from, and how those loot tables have been weighted. Unless BioWare come straight out and tell players what the loot tables contain and the percentage weighting for items in those loot tables, all we can do is guess until the cows come home. There is nothing in this system that is in the players favour, aside from given enough time we may get a complete set bonus. Although it has already been stated by BioWare and Eric that players may never get a complete set bonus. So you can take a wild guess at how those loot tables have been weighted in favour of BioWare retaining subscriptions, because to actually earn this gear you have to stay subscribed. Which also excludes pref. players from the system, reducing the pool of players in group finder even further. A question, for everyone. How does this system benefit subscribers, with the above in mind? How does the new expansion benefit subscribers at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 How does the new expansion benefit subscribers at all? Hmm, financially maybe?. Makes them unsub and save some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaconik Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hmm, financially maybe?. Makes them unsub and save some money. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtualMorrigan Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Hmm, financially maybe?. Makes them unsub and save some money. Precisely. I have had my taste of RNG with the Alliance crates. About 960 crates opened, still missing 10 armour pieces. I'm not going to accept odds like that for things I actually need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 my guess is a ton of them. they know that this is a way to milk players both out of time and money and it's been shown time after time that they really don't care. if they did they would be talking to us. They hate us no they despise us they will never talk to us lets be honest since the marra issue where a dev was so insulted we are not listened anywhere. But its their game and can do whatever they want with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majopucik Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 How does this system benefit subscribers, with the above in mind? How does the new expansion benefit subscribers at all? Good questions. Overall its again not even an expansion, more of an update like with Eternal championship, a few instances and new story. We were getting story before too, so no big deal. About the gear, they just wanna see if people stay subbed for it. But i bet they are digging their own grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 from reading your post from past to previous..you express more of your sexuality for attention..let be real here who actually advertise them self as a lesbian gamer..if anything guys gonna message you more than often..even in your post always bragging how good you are at this class.. i get it you need some attention in your life and that's fine..a online video game isn't the time or place for it..i'm pretty sure they have lesbian gamer's in SWTOR but they not putting there business out there..alot of us come here to play a game not caring about somebody sexuality.. if you want random strangers on a online game to give you attention..they have other ways instead of saying i'm a lesbian..if anything you doing the opposite and setting yourself up for ridicule if it come your way..if you want to be known in the gaming community then do so with your own skills..not some cop out of using your acclaim sexuality.. lastly before you or anybody come saying im being a bigot..i have family members that are gay and play SWTOR..but you dont see them on forums or in game exposing themselves..trying to say there is a time and place for everything..online mmo not the place for your views in sexuality..i see enough of it on television.. What ever, good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardera Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 With 1 of 5 Crates giving a purple item (20% Drop rate) you will have to open 227 boxes on average to get all 14 slots covered.... And the big part of this is the difference between the lucky and the unlucky, my model did give a min crates opened to get all 14 at 35, and max at 1154 crates. This is based on how the boxes from Heroics are giving you gear now, below level 60. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=901328 So yeah I would hate being on the unlucky part of those drops. imagine having to do this with more than one char....i cant believe Bioware think this is a good idea lol ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majopucik Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 What ever, good luck with that. So Trixxie, wanna team up for heroics to get your GC rank up? I get up yours and you get up mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 imagine having to do this with more than one char....i cant believe Bioware think this is a good idea lol ridiculous Ikr, I've 30+ toons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Thank you BioWare for addressing and then discussing the RNG issue some of our community feel troubled by come 5.0. It's always such a positive experience to feel like developers are part of the community too! Your insight as to why you made the design choice to re-introduce RNG to gearing truly opened my eyes. Special thanks for that. Cheers Musco for continuing to carry the torch between the community and the developers! A job well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keitzy Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Thank you BioWare for addressing and then discussing the RNG issue some of our community feel troubled by come 5.0. It's always such a positive experience to feel like developers are part of the community too! Your insight as to why you made the design choice to re-introduce RNG to gearing truly opened my eyes. Special thanks for that. Cheers Musco for continuing to carry the torch between the community and the developers! A job well done! Puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 How does the new expansion benefit subscribers at all? Also a good question. Hmm, financially maybe?. Makes them unsub and save some money. Well played Precisely. I have had my taste of RNG with the Alliance crates. About 960 crates opened, still missing 10 armour pieces. I'm not going to accept odds like that for things I actually need. I'm missing 21 pieces of the legacy armour sets currently. Considering that I have; - 2 Characters with Alliance Specialists at 20 influence. - 1 Character with Alliance Specialists at mid-teens influence. - 1 Character with Alliance Specialists at around 10 influence. - 2 Characters with Alliance Specialists at around 7 influence. So I can understand the frustration with RNG and those crates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Also a good question. Well played I'm missing 21 pieces of the legacy armour sets currently. Considering that I have; - 2 Characters with Alliance Specialists at 20 influence. - 1 Character with Alliance Specialists at mid-teens influence. - 1 Character with Alliance Specialists at around 10 influence. - 2 Characters with Alliance Specialists at around 7 influence. So I can understand the frustration with RNG and those crates. What are you all talking about I am so confused? Do you mean the boxes that only give cosmetic crap? you get nothing from it really nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 What are you all talking about I am so confused? Do you mean the boxes that only give cosmetic crap? you get nothing from it really nothing. RNG, and yes, Alliance Crates was just the example used above of how badly some of us view the RNG in the game. You do get something from it, you get Legacy Shells, some of us like collecting this stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 What are you all talking about I am so confused? Do you mean the boxes that only give cosmetic crap? you get nothing from it really nothing. Those crates are strictly cosmetic items, but I believe his/her point is that they can potentially provide insight into what the RNG will look like when it's rolled out for stat gear in KotET - and how hard it might end up being to complete a set. (Of course we should keep in mind that the GalCom system will limit the pool of potential drops to your current spec, so it might not bee quite as broad a base as with the Alliance Crates.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaconik Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Those crates are strictly cosmetic items, but I believe his/her point is that they can potentially provide insight into what the RNG will look like when it's rolled out for stat gear in KotET - and how hard it might end up being to complete a set. (Of course we should keep in mind that the GalCom system will limit the pool of potential drops to your current spec, so it might not bee quite as broad a base as with the Alliance Crates.) They said there will be players with incomplete said. This to me sounds bad enough, how about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curulz Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 They said there will be players with incomplete said. This to me sounds bad enough, how about you? I for one denounce our new RNG overlords. RNG is bad enough, but I'm not banking on BW to execute it in a tolerable manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theeko Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Seems almost every MMO is going with the hack & slash Rng now a days kind of weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaconik Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Seems almost every MMO is going with the hack & slash Rng now a days kind of weird But probably only SW:TOR had this in the past and had to remove it. Honestly, I'm not following others so IDK/IDC. But they haven't said anything about "why now it won't fail". That's the important question, what changed? Why now it will work when in the past it failed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) They said there will be players with incomplete said. This to me sounds bad enough, how about you? I don't have much of a personal stake in this one. Even with the RNG, the simple fact that almost all content types will now be part of the gear acquisition system means I have a much better (i.e. non-zero) chance of getting a full set compared to the old system. So on balance, I'm looking forward to GC, but don't have any strong feelings about its RNG aspect. I get that opening the gear treadmill up like this means that they had to put in some sort of new speedbumps to balance things back out. But plenty of people who have put way, way more thought and energy than I have into this whole issue are obviously up in arms about it, so I certainly wouldn't be upset if they tweaked things so that it wasn't 100% RNG - that piece of it isn't anything I'm particularly invested in, particularly if they can find another speedbump that's more... palatable in general. Edited November 21, 2016 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I don't have a personal stake in this one. Even with the RNG, the simple fact that almost all content types will now be part of the gear acquisition system means I have a much better (i.e. non-zero) chance of getting a full set compared to the old system. So on balance, I'm looking forward to GC, but don't have any strong feelings about its RNG aspect.A better chance of getting a full set with the stat bonus you mean? Because anyone can go buy a full set of 220 gear right now on a vendor, and they can buy the piece they need...if you're missing an item you need to upgrade in 5.0, you're screwed if the RNG god's aren't on your side. 5.0 is worse in every possible way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaconik Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I don't have a personal stake in this one. Even with the RNG, the simple fact that almost all content types will now be part of the gear acquisition system means I have a much better (i.e. non-zero) chance of getting a full set compared to the old system. So on balance, I'm looking forward to GC, but don't have any strong feelings about its RNG aspect. I get that opening the gear treadmill up like this means that they had to put in some sort of new speedbumps to balance things back out. But plenty of people who have put way, way more thought and energy than I have into this whole issue are obviously up in arms about it, so I certainly wouldn't be upset if they tweaked things so that it wasn't 100% RNG - that piece of it certainly isn't anything I'm particularly invested in, particularly if they can find another speedbump that's more... palatable in general. And that's it, there are no insurances that players won't be screwed by RNG. There are players with pathetic rolls on gear. I am in the group. So as you are looking forward to it because YOU will get gear I am canceling my subscription because for ME this will be bad as my luck in this game is kinda bad. And I know people with worse luck. As you said, there are no insurance policies established. And that's just gear. Now imagine those "elitist" who look at gear when they are getting together quick runs because you need to run fast through the content to get the next worthless RNG crate. Now imagine being in the flashpoint and wanted to look at cutscenes. Vote to kick. Imagine admitting you don't know the tactics for the operation - vote to kick. Imagine doing mistakes during some operations - vote to kick. This system generates animosity between players who want gear fast. And believe me it will be even worse than today, because people nowadays don't care about gear in SM OPS. But in 5.0 SM OPS will be for a long time for many players the biggest GCexp income... And I don't try to imagine the rage in WZs(which should be the 2nd best experience income). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I don't have much of a personal stake in this one. Even with the RNG, the simple fact that almost all content types will now be part of the gear acquisition system means I have a much better (i.e. non-zero) chance of getting a full set compared to the old system. So on balance, I'm looking forward to GC, but don't have any strong feelings about its RNG aspect. I get that opening the gear treadmill up like this means that they had to put in some sort of new speedbumps to balance things back out. But plenty of people who have put way, way more thought and energy than I have into this whole issue are obviously up in arms about it, so I certainly wouldn't be upset if they tweaked things so that it wasn't 100% RNG - that piece of it isn't anything I'm particularly invested in, particularly if they can find another speedbump that's more... palatable in general. Or "hey we feel sorry for players like DarthDymond so we've introduced this GC system! Don't worry though, other means of gear acquisition aren't going away!" - imagine a community friendly solution like that?! That would leave the few who felt it unfair you get gear by not doing ips but they would become a minority in this debate as opposed to the "pro" crowd being the minority right now. It would also leave an issue with PVP gear acquisition but gearing ruins PVP imo - I just tried out the overwarch free weekend and no gearing plus graded matching making on your level = great fun, think I'll buy it and I had no interest what so ever before this trial. Now THAT is how you sell a game to people, with a great product they can try fully for free. If the product sucked it wouldn't have helped and stat based characters would have made it suck ( as I find PVP does in this game for the most part due to that ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 A better chance of getting a full set with the stat bonus you mean? Because anyone can go buy a full set of 220 gear right now on a vendor, and they can buy the piece they need...if you're missing an item you need to upgrade in 5.0, you're screwed if the RNG god's aren't on your side. 5.0 is worse in every possible way. Yep - talking about the Set Bonus gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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