"The Game is Dying" a brief history of this idea and how long it has been going on.

[KyaniteD]

They need to close down the ghost town servers immediately. If a "new" player tries this game on any of those servers, they will not be around long. And removing the server status option even makes it more imperative that they shut them down ASAP. Like yesterday this needed to be done.

 

Have you noticed how "deception" is the main recurring theme in the game...?

 

But to be honest, I don't understand this tactic, either. Are they really hoping to repopulate those servers? Do they think it increases people's enthusiasm for the game if they're told to re-roll on another server if they want to try group content or have something resembling an mmo experience?

[TUXs]

They need to close down the ghost town servers immediately. If a "new" player tries this game on any of those servers, they will not be around long. And removing the server status option even makes it more imperative that they shut them down ASAP. Like yesterday this needed to be done.

I honestly do not think they care. SWTORs mismanagement cost EA 1% of their revenue (one million dollars)...the games days are numbered and a replacement game is well underway. Bioware Austin is clearly on the chopping block imo.

[ShadessaWayland]

the game is not death most players are hoppers jump from 1 game to a other

 

also there new games they wanna try out like revelation online

 

also some orther mmorpg have big updates and some players like to try that to

 

also swtor is mostly for a special kind off players not every1 like star wars ore sci fi mmorpg

 

fantasy mmorpg get more players its more focus for every1

 

star trek online have the same problem they have a nice player base but realy cant compare to WOW ore GW2

 

i also play black desert online but again its not for every1 its very heavy grinding

ad lvl 50 your exp is going so slow that it can take days to be lvl 51

 

also its very heavy on RNG you must like that

 

but it stile looks mind blowing

 

so yea every game have something players like or dislike

[Jamtas]

Communication has and continues to be a problem in this game. Just look at recent history. They acknowledged operations is something a lot of people want to know more about this past summer, but told everyone they couldn't comment on anything until the KOTET live stram which was over a month away. That time came and went and no real answer on operations was given. instead, players were told they would do a live stream in January to discuss group content. When pressed about operations they did the two step dance again and said, we'll talk about group content in January -several months away.

This overuse of SoonTM has to stop. Be open with players. Acting dodgy hurts your cause. Goodwill is being eroded.

[kodrac]

THE END IS NEAR!!!111!11!111! NGE Mother ***********!!

[Darkbloom]

Have you noticed how "deception" is the main recurring theme in the game...?

 

But to be honest, I don't understand this tactic, either. Are they really hoping to repopulate those servers? Do they think it increases people's enthusiasm for the game if they're told to re-roll on another server if they want to try group content or have something resembling an mmo experience?

 

Sigh.

 

They already told you exactly why they haven't server merged. I don't remember all the technical issues, but here are the ones I do remember:

 

1. What to do about characters on different servers with the same name?

2. What to do about the small percentage of players who play on low-pop servers because that's what they want, or who are really dedicated to being on a specific type of server?

 

Number 2 is a bigger issue than you might expect because by now, you would really think nearly everyone who wants off the ghost servers has left.

 

They listed some other technical issues that I don't remember.

 

For all the complaining about a lack of communication, I find it amazing that no one pays attention when they do communicate. I see repeated comments on these forums asking, "why doesn't BW tell us..." and it's something they've already told us a few times. Or I see speculation about why things happened when they already told us why they happened.

 

To say nothing of the fact that in this thread, one of the most prolific members of the "Game is dying" crowd has finally gotten to the point of outright lying about easily ascertained facts. You know, I understand that being wrong hurts. But at some point, when you're finally to the point where you are repeating lies that you've been called out on multiple times, maybe it's time to take a break.

[Aeneas_Falco]

They need to close down the ghost town servers immediately. If a "new" player tries this game on any of those servers, they will not be around long. And removing the server status option even makes it more imperative that they shut them down ASAP. Like yesterday this needed to be done.

 

I can't understand why they keep places like Jung Ma or Bastion around either. How many new players joined those servers and mistook the ghost towns to be a reflection of the actual state of the game, and quit? Keeping dead servers on life support is counter-productive.

[TUXs]

Sigh.

 

They already told you exactly why they haven't server merged. I don't remember all the technical issues, but here are the ones I do remember:

 

1. What to do about characters on different servers with the same name?

2. What to do about the small percentage of players who play on low-pop servers because that's what they want, or who are really dedicated to being on a specific type of server?

 

Number 2 is a bigger issue than you might expect because by now, you would really think nearly everyone who wants off the ghost servers has left.

 

They listed some other technical issues that I don't remember.

 

For all the complaining about a lack of communication, I find it amazing that no one pays attention when they do communicate. I see repeated comments on these forums asking, "why doesn't BW tell us..." and it's something they've already told us a few times. Or I see speculation about why things happened when they already told us why they happened.

 

To say nothing of the fact that in this thread, one of the most prolific members of the "Game is dying" crowd has finally gotten to the point of outright lying about easily ascertained facts. You know, I understand that being wrong hurts. But at some point, when you're finally to the point where you are repeating lies that you've been called out on multiple times, maybe it's time to take a break.

What on earth are you going on about??? They've merged servers TWICE before. There's no technical reason for anything lol.

[Aeneas_Falco]

Sigh.

 

They already told you exactly why they haven't server merged. I don't remember all the technical issues, but here are the ones I do remember:

 

1. What to do about characters on different servers with the same name?

2. What to do about the small percentage of players who play on low-pop servers because that's what they want, or who are really dedicated to being on a specific type of server?

 

Number 2 is a bigger issue than you might expect because by now, you would really think nearly everyone who wants off the ghost servers has left.

.

 

Both are rather weak excuses as Bioware has merged servers before.

 

1. Not an issue, as server transfers have been done before. At worst a transferred player now has to rename Boba Fett to B'oba Fett before jumping onto their transferred character.

 

2. The number of players who prefer to play on dead servers are likely outnumbered by those stuck on dead servers who hate it, and by new players who get a bad first impression of the game and quit because of it. PVP instances also simulate the dead server experience. I run characters in the PVP instance all the time when I don't want to compete for Heroic quest objectives, and never encounter another soul. All those players have to do is transfer to instance 2 on a PVE server and they'll almost never see another person.

 

Also SWTOR is first and foremost a multiplayer game. While players who prefer a single player experience should be accommodated, they should never be given priority over those who prefer a multiplayer experience in their multiplayer game. Making changes so that players on previously dead servers can now find groups or don't have wait hours for a GF or PVP queue to pop should take priority over players who prefer not to see other players in the game world.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[t-darko]

What on earth are you going on about??? They've merged servers TWICE before. There's no technical reason for anything lol.

 

Think he refers to x-server for some reason . . .

 

On a side note: It does, or did seemed to be some server mergers on the way when they got rid of the server designations; I mean it seemed like a logical step after that move . . .

 

Then, all of a sudden, it seems like someone pressed the Heart trigger Patch

Edited November 15, 2016 by t-darko

[Darkbloom]

What on earth are you going on about??? They've merged servers TWICE before. There's no technical reason for anything lol.

 

Yeah they did. And the downsides didn't seem like a big deal at that time. Now they do.

 

What on earth are YOU going on about lol?

 

Look I'll try to make this incredibly simple. There's hardly anyone left on those servers. That's why they're dead, right?

 

Right?

 

OK. So the few people who are left. Why are they there? There is a real possibility that they want to be there. If you just merge, they'll be angry. So where is the upside?

 

Really, you tell me. What's the upside? If the few players left are going to get mad because they lost their names, why bother merging? If the few left want to stay, for whatever reason, why bother merging?

 

In any case. I don't care whether their reasons are "weak" or not lol. I don't care. I simply pointed out that they had given them. If you don't like them, you don't like them. Just say so. Don't pretend they haven't told you what's up when they have.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Darkbloom

[TUXs]

Right?

Wrong.

[kodrac]

Wrong.

 

He has a point though. I don't want to be merged. I left Harbinger to get away from the crowds and the masses of idiots. I have all the names I want and don't want to go through another merge and lose all my names just so the masses can get their queue pops. So leave my server alone please - and it's not "dead".

Edited November 15, 2016 by kodrac

[Krazhez]

There are some people that do feel trapped, they don't want to spend 10 bucks per character to move them, they missed the 90cc transfers. (There's threads about that too) That's on them for missing the 10month? long event but they are still around, or came back to the game.

 

To the people that don't want to merge per say, BW should reinstate 90cc transfers, say they are killing 1 server per time zone, move to another one in this time or be forcefully transferred. You like a low pop server, then pick one of the low pop servers that aren't getting removed. That's the only way I can think of to help both sides of the perspective.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

He has a point though. I don't want to be merged. I left Harbinger to get away from the crowds and the masses of idiots. I have all the names I want and don't want to go through another merge and lose all my names just so the masses can get their queue pops. So leave my server alone please - and it's not "dead".

 

Key word there is "masses" - why cater to a minority to the detriment of a majority?

 

It's an MMO after all - First M is massively, if you didn't like that part you should have rethought playing the game or put up with it.

 

As it stands you have your quiet servers but this won't be the case in the new year where they've all but indicated they will merge them once the expansion proves it can't refill them.

[Darkbloom]

Anyway, what I was originally going to post before I went off on a tangent....

 

I think the people saying the game is dying had a real point to make there a couple of times. For instance, the game probably really would have died if they hadn't gone the ftp route and decided to rely on the cartel market for revenue. So in some sense, I'd say that yes, the game WAS dying at that point.

 

Right now the game is not dying in the sense that it is going to get shut down. It's really interesting how many MMOs are still around, in some way. It doesn't take that many paying customers to merely keep the lights on. And it's also not dying in the sense of being put into maintenance mode. The game is way too profitable for EA for them to want to risk that.

 

However, there are two ways to maintain (or grow) profits. One is to increase revenue. The other is to cut costs.

 

Believe it or not (and you can easily look this up), SWTOR is currently the most successful subscription-based Western MMO to be released in the last decade. Among Western MMOs, only WoW brings in more revenue. The other fact that's easy to look up is that ptp Western MMOs have had steadily declining revenues for years now, and no investment bank or industry analyst expects that trend to change.

 

So what do I see when I look at 5.0?

 

I don't see much new content. 9 story chapters (not 16, and no promises of Alerts.) 6 Uprisings. And... I guess a little bit of LvD stuff?

 

Well. Looks to me like we're in "cut costs to maintain profits" mode. I mean, what else is there to see, other than, wow, that must have been one small development budget. So while I'm not saying the game is dying, I do think that, in some ways, 4.0 was the last hurrah.

 

They had already learned that the WoW model doesn't work for SWTOR in terms of maintaining subs. And actually, the WoW model isn't even maintaining subs in WoW. None of the less successful MMOs seem to have any big picture ideas worth copying. So in 4.0, Bioware said, "we're going back to our roots." They went to their strength, Story. And they gave story the best shot they could to see if it would maintain subs.

 

It doesn't seem to have worked.

 

So now they are copying from (take your pick) mobile games or Korean MMOs (lol) and we're gonna get a gear grind. I can't say I'm happy, but I don't blame them either. I have no ill will towards Bioware. In fact, I don't even hate EA. MMOs are in decline. What are you gonna do.

[Rolodome]

Anyway, what I was originally going to post before I went off on a tangent....

 

I think the people saying the game is dying had a real point to make there a couple of times. For instance, the game probably really would have died if they hadn't gone the ftp route and decided to rely on the cartel market for revenue. So in some sense, I'd say that yes, the game WAS dying at that point.

 

Right now the game is not dying in the sense that it is going to get shut down. It's really interesting how many MMOs are still around, in some way. It doesn't take that many paying customers to merely keep the lights on. And it's also not dying in the sense of being put into maintenance mode. The game is way too profitable for EA for them to want to risk that.

 

However, there are two ways to maintain (or grow) profits. One is to increase revenue. The other is to cut costs.

 

Believe it or not (and you can easily look this up), SWTOR is currently the most successful subscription-based Western MMO to be released in the last decade. Among Western MMOs, only WoW brings in more revenue. The other fact that's easy to look up is that ptp Western MMOs have had steadily declining revenues for years now, and no investment bank or industry analyst expects that trend to change.

 

So what do I see when I look at 5.0?

 

I don't see much new content. 9 story chapters (not 16, and no promises of Alerts.) 6 Uprisings. And... I guess a little bit of LvD stuff?

 

Well. Looks to me like we're in "cut costs to maintain profits" mode. I mean, what else is there to see, other than, wow, that must have been one small development budget. So while I'm not saying the game is dying, I do think that, in some ways, 4.0 was the last hurrah.

 

They had already learned that the WoW model doesn't work for SWTOR in terms of maintaining subs. And actually, the WoW model isn't even maintaining subs in WoW. None of the less successful MMOs seem to have any big picture ideas worth copying. So in 4.0, Bioware said, "we're going back to our roots." They went to their strength, Story. And they gave story the best shot they could to see if it would maintain subs.

 

It doesn't seem to have worked.

 

So now they are copying from (take your pick) mobile games or Korean MMOs (lol) and we're gonna get a gear grind. I can't say I'm happy, but I don't blame them either. I have no ill will towards Bioware. In fact, I don't even hate EA. MMOs are in decline. What are you gonna do.

Maybe it's a good thing if MMOs are in decline. Keep in mind that in the beginning, it was a largely niche market. WoW getting millions of subs was a weird thing. And I suspect that much of the market that is being siphoned off into mobile games was never a market that was all that into MMOs in the first place. If you look at the trend of simplifying MMOs and their gameplay, it appears they are trying to get some of that super casual, mobile-game market that is largely made up of people who dink around in video games in 15 minute increments and have some spending money.

 

The crowd that can and wants to sink itself into a complex virtual world was, I think, never very big (maybe in the millions, but not enough to support tons of different MMOs all trying to suck in the same people). The success of WoW supports this theory... WoW's design, though the areas are big in size (that I know of) the gameplay was always more of a questing theme park ride than, say, the organic business world of pre-CU SWG.

 

And the modern theme of wanting instant queue pops, quick travel, and so on... it's all about being able to jump into the game in small increments, do exactly what you want to do, instantly, and then get out, back into your real life. More like an arcade than, say... I don't know, going fishing.

 

I think the classic MMO crowd has always been more the "fishers." Willing to just sit down and relax in the MMO world. But that crowd does not make WoWbucks all on its own and therein lies the roadmap of how we've come to where we are. I also think the "fishers" don't look at content as a heavy need... they more often want sandbox-ish tools to entertain themselves with. But again, the fishers get screwed over because MMOs are being designed primarily to give people theme park rides that require minimal thought, reflection, and time investment... aka: the WoW/mobile-games market.

[Jadescythe]

Dying is all relative. To most PvPers, the game has been dead for some years. To most group PvE players, the game died after SoR. It ultimately just depends on what EA will accept. Are they ok with the game just continuing to bring in revenue? Do they have the desire/capability of launching a new title to take the game's place if they stop adding content? Will launching a new game ultimately result in more money?

 

So far, they have been happy to cut the budget of the game to keep revenue positive. At some point, they will realize that relaunching an MMO or something similar to replace SWTOR will bring in the revenue that release SWTOR did. That's most likely when servers will shut down unless enough players actually leave the game to make it start losing money.

[Krazhez]

So now they are copying from (take your pick) mobile games or Korean MMOs (lol) and we're gonna get a gear grind. I can't say I'm happy, but I don't blame them either. I have no ill will towards Bioware. In fact, I don't even hate EA. MMOs are in decline. What are you gonna do.

 

 

Hit the nail on the head.

"EA Mobile and Maxis will join this central studios organization led by Patrick Söderlund. Samantha Ryan, who will now report to Patrick, will continue to lead our Mobile and Maxis teams. Sam will also take on leadership of BioWare, where her love for RPGs and experience with open-world adventure games is an outstanding fit to work with Aaryn Flynn and his great team. " - https://www.ea.com/news/an-organizational-update

Edited November 15, 2016 by Krazhez

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Yeah they did. And the downsides didn't seem like a big deal at that time. Now they do.

 

What on earth are YOU going on about lol?

 

Look I'll try to make this incredibly simple. There's hardly anyone left on those servers. That's why they're dead, right?

 

Right?

 

OK. So the few people who are left. Why are they there? There is a real possibility that they want to be there. If you just merge, they'll be angry. So where is the upside?

 

Really, you tell me. What's the upside? If the few players left are going to get mad because they lost their names, why bother merging? If the few left want to stay, for whatever reason, why bother merging?

 

In any case. I don't care whether their reasons are "weak" or not lol. I don't care. I simply pointed out that they had given them. If you don't like them, you don't like them. Just say so. Don't pretend they haven't told you what's up when they have.

 

There are still people on those servers who want to play the game but can't/won't pay the fee to transfer their toons off and thus they can't play the game they want to play. They instead quit playing the game.

Other people come back thinking to take up the game again to find themselves on a dead server - they then decide to not bother coming back.

 

There is more to it than just the people on the server play right this very moment.

 

I think the amount of players those servers have cost the game would be quite significant.

[Darkbloom]

Hit the nail on the head.

"EA Mobile and Maxis will join this central studios organization led by Patrick Söderlund. Samantha Ryan, who will now report to Patrick, will continue to lead our Mobile and Maxis teams. Sam will also take on leadership of BioWare, where her love for RPGs and experience with open-world adventure games is an outstanding fit to work with Aaryn Flynn and his great team. " - https://www.ea.com/news/an-organizational-update

 

Wow.

 

I hadn't read that. OK. Well, I guess I do know which way the wind is blowing.

[Rolodome]

Hit the nail on the head.

"EA Mobile and Maxis will join this central studios organization led by Patrick Söderlund. Samantha Ryan, who will now report to Patrick, will continue to lead our Mobile and Maxis teams. Sam will also take on leadership of BioWare, where her love for RPGs and experience with open-world adventure games is an outstanding fit to work with Aaryn Flynn and his great team. " - https://www.ea.com/news/an-organizational-update

Interesting to say the least, but I don't know how much that actually affects BW Austin. Certainly it's likely to affect what Andromeda looks like at release.

 

I can't deny it's suspicious timing. But the datamined content reminder was posted on September 12th and this organizational update was on September 13th, so much of KOTET's design was probably already in progress. It's possible the change in leadership affected it, but it seems that if it did, it was either in the details (perhaps in the speed of gearing, for instance), or the organizational update happened months before the press release.

[Krazhez]

Interesting to say the least, but I don't know how much that actually affects BW Austin. Certainly it's likely to affect what Andromeda looks like at release.

 

I can't deny it's suspicious timing. But the datamined content reminder was posted on September 12th and this organizational update was on September 13th, so much of KOTET's design was probably already in progress. It's possible the change in leadership affected it, but it seems that if it did, it was either in the details (perhaps in the speed of gearing, for instance), or the organizational update happened months before the press release.

 

Good points

[Lium]

I don't know about that, SWTOR seems to have regularly been outperforming games like RIFT and Champions Online, and those are still live - to say nothing of Age of Conan and others that have been kept active for ages even though they appear to have significantly lower populations than SWTOR.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but those are fantasy MMOs. SWTOR is sci-fi with some fantasy elements. It's been well documented that fantasy sells better than sci-fi in RPGs and MMOs.

 

Look at WildStar. That's an original IP, sci-fi MMO. I expect it to be shut down any day now. That's not an exaggeration.

[TUXs]

He has a point though. I don't want to be merged. I left Harbinger to get away from the crowds and the masses of idiots. I have all the names I want and don't want to go through another merge and lose all my names just so the masses can get their queue pops. So leave my server alone please - and it's not "dead".

That's great...I get it...but in the past, Bioware has made the choice for you. It's not yours to make.