Swap Character sex 5.0

[TrixxieTriss]

Bioware has gay/bi characters in all of their games...except vanilla SWTOR. Random non-gamers upset at pixelated ***** and gay aliens have barked objections for decades with no effect on Bioware. Someone powerful (Lucas) said "No" to SGR during development. Disney then buys SW and suddenly ROTHC comes out with gay one-shot NPCs, followed by SOR with more elaborate relationships and now KOTFE with full blown SGR companions.

 

Having not played other Bioware games, I didn't know about the LG content they put into those. Its probably why they started to put it into swtor at the start. So I think you're assumption that it was something on the Lucas Arts end that canned it, is probably correct. Like I said in my previous post, more than likely due to Lucas wanting to sell the franchise and not have any controversy happening.

Edited November 3, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[SithKoriandr]

You are really missing the point about Kaliyo and I actually explained it many posts before yours, so please go back and read it.

 

Your point is kinda lost with everything you've said.

 

Kaliyo was basically flirtatious with the female agent the whole first chapter. Okay. She then later on goes to say, she isn't into females, she only acts that way to play them. You were into her flirting, so you got played.

 

You also go on to say, "Ooooh! That Doc! What a creep!" (paraphrasing here), then go on to say you'd like to romance Jaesa, who to romance her, you have to do far worse things than Doc ever says or does, and since I'm going to guess you haven't played through his romance, you see there's another side to him and that's basically a defense mechanism for him.

 

So, yeah. You're point seems to be, "I just want to romance the character I want, I don't care for the reasons it's not implemented, even if it's to complicate to code"

 

Which, hey, I'm willing to say is a perfectly valid desire! Will it help get it done, not likely. I say that as someone who's come around and said "Eh, just make them all able to become LIs to any player...why the hell not."

[SithKoriandr]

Bioware has gay/bi characters in all of their games...except vanilla SWTOR. Random non-gamers upset at pixelated nudity and gay aliens have barked objections for decades with no effect on Bioware. Someone powerful (Lucas) said "No" to SGR during development. Some outside "religious conservative" outcry had zero input on the game's development. Disney then buys SW and suddenly ROTHC comes out with gay one-shot NPCs, followed by SOR with more elaborate relationships and now KOTFE with full blown SGR companions.

 

People get upset at pixelated nudity, gay aliens and SJW non sense in fiction. What we can take away from that, is people are dumb and can't handle make believe.

[SerraShar]

Having not played other Bioware games, I didn't know about the LG content they put into those. Its probably why they started to put it into swtor at the start. So I think you're assumption that it was something on the Lucas Arts end that canned it, is probably correct. Like I said in my previous post, more than likely due to Lucas wanting to sell the franchise and not have any controversy happening.

 

Yeah , Mass effect serie , Dragon Age serie...Jade Empire . Look toward those for Smoochies

[TrixxieTriss]

Your point is kinda lost with everything you've said.

 

Kaliyo was basically flirtatious with the female agent the whole first chapter. Okay. She then later on goes to say, she isn't into females, she only acts that way to play them. You were into her flirting, so you got played.

 

You also go on to say, "Ooooh! That Doc! What a creep!" (paraphrasing here), then go on to say you'd like to romance Jaesa, who to romance her, you have to do far worse things than Doc ever says or does, and since I'm going to guess you haven't played through his romance, you see there's another side to him and that's basically a defense mechanism for him.

 

So, yeah. You're point seems to be, "I just want to romance the character I want, I don't care for the reasons it's not implemented, even if it's to complicate to code"

 

Which, hey, I'm willing to say is a perfectly valid desire! Will it help get it done, not likely. I say that as someone who's come around and said "Eh, just make them all able to become LIs to any player...why the hell not."

 

You obviously didn't read all my posts properly or in the context they were meant or when I was actually making a joke with someone else, I thought it was easy to understand and I've tried to keep it logic based and non emotional when actually debating my opinions and not my off handed banter with a couple of other people. But you've decided that logic is too hard to use when debating a topic and needs to get thrown out the window in favour of being insulting.

 

Your snide remarks aside, the basic premise for myside of the discussion is -

 

That it's not technically impossible, but is time consuming and not cost effective to retroactively change the vanilla setup now.

 

Did they change the options in the alpha/beta development to remove the LG content? Yes

 

Are there one or two companions whose personality matrixes are too ingrained in their character to change to a unisex option? Yes, Doc and Corso.

 

Would it be possible to romance Kaliyo and Jaesa with their current personality matirxes for a female character? Definitely, zero issues.

 

Do companions need to be Bisexual to be romancable by both genders? Absolutely not. Their preference would be based own your own decision to make them gay or lesbian. That does not make them Bi, it makes the option unisex because no where in your story would they then go and be with the opposite gender, which is the definition of Bi.

 

Would a gender change option after finishing the vanilla companion story line change anything further on in the game? No

 

Would I like it if they did go back and change the options in the vanilla story? Of course I would, but I'm not demanding it like your snide remarks are insinuating. I also understand why it would probably never happen and I'm ok with that.

 

As for my opening post and follow on posts to help define and flesh out the idea of what the tiltle of the thread says.

I would like the option to swap the gender of my characters once they finish the vanilla story. The same way as you can swap species.

 

I think I've made my points as easy to understand as possible. I've even spaced them out so that they are much "easier" for you to understand.

So there should now be no confusion on what my points are.

You don't need to agree with them. It is your right to have your own opinion, but if you are going to debate or discuss your opinion, try doing it without attacking others and try to argue your point in a logical manner and leave out the snide remarks because they aren't needed.

Edited November 3, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Yeah , Mass effect serie , Dragon Age serie...Jade Empire . Look toward those for Smoochies

 

Honestly, I'd still be playing WoW if swtor hadn't been released. I only came to try it because it was Star Wars and I am a massive fan and collector.

[SithKoriandr]

You obviously didn't read all my posts properly or in the context they were meant or when I was actually making a joke with someone else, I thought it was easy to understand and I've tried to keep it logic based and non emotional when actually debating my opinions and not my off handed banter with a couple of other people. But you've decided that logic is too hard to use when debating a topic and needs to get thrown out the window in favour of being insulting.

 

Your snide remarks aside, the basic premise for myside of the discussion is -

 

That it's not technically impossible, but is time consuming and not cost effective to retroactively change the vanilla setup now.

 

Did they change the options in the alpha/beta development to remove the LG content? Yes

 

Are there one or two companions whose personality matrixes are too ingrained in their character to change to a unisex option? Yes, Doc and Corso.

 

Would it be possible to romance Kaliyo and Jaesa with their current personality matirxes for a female character? Definitely, zero issues.

 

Do companions need to be Bisexual to be romancable by both genders? Absolutely not. Their preference would be based own your own decision to make them gay or lesbian. That does not make them Bi, it makes the option unisex because no where in your story would they then go and be with the opposite gender, which is the definition of Bi.

 

Would a gender change option after finishing the vanilla companion story line change anything further on in the game? No

 

Would I like it if they did go back and change the options in the vanilla story? Of course I would, but I'm not demanding it like your snide remarks are insinuating. I also understand why it would probably never happen and I'm ok with that.

 

As for my opening post and follow on posts to help define and flesh out the idea of what the tiltle of the thread says.

I would like the option to swap the gender of my characters once they finish the vanilla story. The same way as you can swap species.

 

I think I've made my points as easy to understand as possible. I've even spaced them out so that they are much "easier" for you to understand.

So there should now be no confusion on what my points are.

You don't need to agree with them. It is your right to have your own opinion, but if you are going to debate or discuss your opinion, try doing it without attacking others and try to argue your point in a logical manner and leave out the snide remarks because they aren't needed.

 

Okay. Let's go with all you've said.

 

Where is this proof of changing anything in alpha/beta? No links to proof have been given. All I've heard is people saying, they heard.

 

Kaliyo is now ingrained as she says as much in her dialogue, unless your saying they will also need to get rid of in game dialogue to make it all work.

 

Let's take a look at Hunter. If the Hunter doesn't get with Mako, she gets with Torian. Unless it's a female. If she doesn't get with Torian, he gets with Mako. So, that whole companion cut scene gets screwed up, because you didn't get with Torian, he now gets with Mako, even though you did. Unless they have to go in and add more code to add new flags.

 

Already stated they could just make every romance player sexual. It is poor writing, but hey, this is an MMO, writing isn't top notch anyways, even if we find it entertaining.

 

Will gender change, change anything later on in the game. No idea. As has been stated not only by devs, but by players who are programmers, one change in the code could screw up everything. You do seem to keep forgetting that. So many times, we've seen MMOs make a change, and then it goes live, screws up everything and players moan and complain and quit Players can't even stay with a game, if it starts out having a queue to get into a server on opening week.

[Icykill_]

You obviously didn't read all my posts properly or in the context they were meant or when I was actually making a joke with someone else, I thought it was easy to understand and I've tried to keep it logic based and non emotional when actually debating my opinions and not my off handed banter with a couple of other people. But you've decided that logic is too hard to use when debating a topic and needs to get thrown out the window in favour of being insulting.

 

Your snide remarks aside, the basic premise for myside of the discussion is -

 

That it's not technically impossible, but is time consuming and not cost effective to retroactively change the vanilla setup now.

 

Did they change the options in the alpha/beta development to remove the LG content? Yes

 

Are there one or two companions whose personality matrixes are too ingrained in their character to change to a unisex option? Yes, Doc and Corso.

 

Would it be possible to romance Kaliyo and Jaesa with their current personality matirxes for a female character? Definitely, zero issues.

 

Do companions need to be Bisexual to be romancable by both genders? Absolutely not. Their preference would be based own your own decision to make them gay or lesbian. That does not make them Bi, it makes the option unisex because no where in your story would they then go and be with the opposite gender, which is the definition of Bi.

 

Would a gender change option after finishing the vanilla companion story line change anything further on in the game? No

 

Would I like it if they did go back and change the options in the vanilla story? Of course I would, but I'm not demanding it like your snide remarks are insinuating. I also understand why it would probably never happen and I'm ok with that.

 

As for my opening post and follow on posts to help define and flesh out the idea of what the tiltle of the thread says.

I would like the option to swap the gender of my characters once they finish the vanilla story. The same way as you can swap species.

 

I think I've made my points as easy to understand as possible. I've even spaced them out so that they are much "easier" for you to understand.

So there should now be no confusion on what my points are.

You don't need to agree with them. It is your right to have your own opinion, but if you are going to debate or discuss your opinion, try doing it without attacking others and try to argue your point in a logical manner and leave out the snide remarks because they aren't needed.

 

Lmao.. and Trixxie kills it with her logic bomb... not sure why people bother to try and out logic her with emotional responses... they always make me laugh 😂.. especially when they try and reply to her logic bombs in the same format she used and fail because they don't go and read all her posts and why certain things are the way they... 😂😂

I think she pointed out all the relevant things she posted previously... and finished it in point form... she didn't need to go back and repeat the points she made to back up her argument... that's how you debate... you finish by summing up, not rehashing and asking more questions and arguing... :

Like she said... if you don't agree, fine... you don't need to keep attacking someone... she gave the person arguing with her a way out too... I guess they can't leave it alone

Edited November 3, 2016 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Oh God don't remind me of Doc, I despised him and almost every conversation when the choices you make for the conversation always, always covered his crotch and so I had to look at that while reading the options and then want burn my eyes cause I despised this companion so much for his behavior towards women. I may be gay but I still respect women.

 

Poor Doc.. he always gets a bad rap for being a typical womanising tool... probably 'cause he is 😂

[Icykill_]

Damn... I can't help myself... I have point out the answer to this.

Kaliyo is now ingrained as she says as much in her dialogue, unless your saying they will also need to get rid of in game dialogue to make it all work.

 

You remove the cutscene for female toons conversation... where she says she is a tease... replace it with the response she gives the male toons... dah.. no new dialogue required

[Asmodesu]

tl:dr version : sex swap token, I'm all for the idea. Changing class story and companion conversations/orientation, please don't touch old content, enough is broken in the game already in regards to story flags and missing scenes/dialogue, we don't need even more stuff breaking.

______

(not to do with the OP, rather current conversations) : I personally don't think they should touch anything already in place in-game story wise, companion wise, conversations etc, at all. not with a ten foot pole, there's already too many bugs and glitches breaking conversations, skipping conversations, breaking flags etc. (Torian missing a cutscene entirely for example since 4.0 ... Lana romance flag breaking to the point/being removed so you can't commit in ch 9 kotfe even if you took all the flirt options previously) This has nothing to do with a for or against sgr debate, only to do with technical, VA and code stuff. It could work fine if it was changed... and it could break a whole heap of new stuff for everyone playing, lesser evil is not changing stuff already implemented in-game. and yes, I mentioned VA there, they'd have to get the VA's back to record new lines, since I wouldn't be happy if just because I had an option (this is hypothetical) to romance say Iresso as a guy, that lines of dialogue would be cut out for me. Just an example, as a lot of romance companion conversation dialogue then you think mentions woman, man, beautiful, handsome, wife, husband etc (obviously later on in the romance/act 3 of class stories). one liners here and there. it's either re-record it all, or cut it out completely. or not touch it at all, and keep everything as is.

 

However to go back to the OP which was originally about a token to sex change the player character, not romances at all, I don't see why a male to female or vice versa change token cannot be added, since it would affect only the stuff for that character after the token got used. By this I mean from then on you'd be referred in-game as what you changed the character to (male or female). I do not see a problem with this. Of course not changing any extra code etc would mean romance flags would go to default/no romance due to it, but that shouldn't be the reason for wanting a sex swap anyway.

 

Wow that was a wall of text.. apologies for rambling

[Eshvara]

Do companions need to be Bisexual to be romancable by both genders? Absolutely not. Their preference would be based own your own decision to make them gay or lesbian. That does not make them Bi, it makes the option unisex because no where in your story would they then go and be with the opposite gender, which is the definition of Bi.

 

Do you actually still want them to be unisex today? Not in the meaning of desire, but after seeing all the reasons given why they can't or how it seems unreasonable, you are still in favor of the unisex option?

 

If so, making them unisex means that all the original content for a male would be lost and in several cases the male player would be addressed as she or a woman? What about dialogue with companions during class story, will they still call you a he, while your companion calls you a she, or is everything as is?

 

Assuming I got everything right, would this really be reasonable to ask of Bioware? And is it fair against male players who don't really want to be addressed as a woman or have lesser dialogue so others can have it their way? If you mean they should have been, but not today due to all the changes most of this I guess does not apply.

 

This is really confusing.

 

 

Lmao.. and Trixxie kills it with her logic bomb... not sure why people bother to try and out logic her with emotional responses... they always make me laugh 😂.. especially when they try and reply to her logic bombs in the same format she used and fail because they don't go and read all her posts and why certain things are the way they... 😂😂

I think she pointed out all the relevant things she posted previously... and finished it in point form... she didn't need to go back and repeat the points she made to back up her argument... that's how you debate... you finish by summing up, not rehashing and asking more questions and arguing... :

Like she said... if you don't agree, fine... you don't need to keep attacking someone... she gave the person arguing with her a way out too... I guess they can't leave it alone

 

Not biased at all.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Eshvara

[DavGvel]

tranny be gone, tranny be gone

[Eshvara]

tranny be gone, tranny be gone

 

Rude.

[DavGvel]

Rude.

 

because not only can zabrak men shapeshift into humans, but you can also make them girls too!

[CorellianWannabe]

Why not swap NPCs as well? Maybe a male Kaliyo would be more interesting, or a female Jorgan. Surely that wouldn't be any more time-consuming- hire a few cheap voice actors while the rest 'go on strike' and bang out the dialogue in a few weeks. It's already written, just find people that can emote a bit. Surely the university has a drama club.

 

Maybe EA can have a Kickstarter for it!

[TrixxieTriss]

There were a couple, most were on hosted by or on conservative websites. Obviously Bioware never released anything publically about this. I'm not even sure how the religious people originally found out about the content, but once they did, they made sure that Bioware heard them.

I'm trying to find some links for you, but I think because they were hosted by those groups to start with, the content has been removed because they got their way and there wasn't any reason to keep it on their server or web pages/forums etc.

I'll keep trying to find something. The links I actually had saved in my favourites now default to "page unfound".

 

This discussion really should be in another thread, but I'm sick of being called out on it for not providing links. So I'm hopefully going to put the subject to bed with this post.

As I said in my above post, there were some articles that have since been removed from certain religious activist groups while development was still in the early stages.

But I have found some from Bio where they tried to back track and cover their butts after outrage from a portion of the player base for not including it at launch. They said "they always intended there to be same gender romances for companions, but time constraints prevented this and they intend to release it for some companions post launch"

At the time of this Bioware announcement, there were plenty of protest websites from religious groups that dated back to the alpha/beta time period. But as I pointed out, Bioware never publically acknowledged them at the time so as to keep it under raps. Rumours were abound as to wether they would remove the content, which at the time was leaked by some tester/s that it was already in the game.(sorry web page has now been removed )

When Bio did officially address the subject, they tried to keep everyone happy by firstly not releasing the option at launch, but saying it would be added after. But then the subject kept getting bumped and they kept dodging and ignoring questions on this for a long time (there is even a swtor forum thread on it from 2012), till they finally said it would be in the expansion. Still in that first expansion we didn't get a same gender romance companion option until Lana and Theron.

When looking at the swtor forum thread on the same gender option, the Bio community manager at the time had to start another thread because the original was so big. This is a copy of part of that post.

Because the previous thread has exceeded our normal threshold for thread length, we've started this new thread for the community to discuss the how and when of implementation of same-gender romances in the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=476215

But I digress. At the time of swtor's release, EA/Bioware was under a lot of pressure from religious conservatives for adding LGBT content in their games, not just swtor. Here is a link to that article and a subsequent one that focuses on the 2.0 expansion

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-04-04-ea-defends-itself-against-thousands-of-anti-gay-letters

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-01-15-ea-bioware-fire-fighting-reactions-to-swtors-gay-ghetto-planet

I also have a link to an article from 2012 from an activist group against same gender relationships in swtor. I'm not sure if I can post it here or if it's a grey area and may or may not be removed. But I'll give it a go and see.

http://floridafamily.org/full_article.php?article_no=140

While I can not provide a smoking gun, because the content was old and has now been removed from the web, I cannot 100% back up my argument that the content was changed before launch. But the circumstantial evidence indicates there was something going on in the back ground during development and prior to launch.

The only way I could 100% back up my argument would be an official statement from Bio or an insider comment.

While searching for this info (because the other web pages had been removed), I came across a discussion about features that were in the beta, but never made it into the game. One that really caught my attention was the ability to attack and kill your own companion if they pissed you off. LOL. And another one that would make a companion leave your crew if you kept making their affection too negative. ie, probably keeping Vette in a collar and never removing it.

There were a few others. Sorry I can't find the page again, I closed it and my browser deletes history. I'll post the link if I find it again.

Edited November 3, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[CorellianWannabe]

As for romancing Jaesa, I've never done it on a male character, so I don't know how that works. But if what you are say is correct for a male character to romance her, then that is another issue altogether. Without actually seeing this myself, I'm not going to debate the pros or cons to that.

 

You are aware that youtube videos exist and you don't actually have to play a male character, right?

[TrixxieTriss]

You are aware that youtube videos exist and you don't actually have to play a male character, right?

 

Lolz. I should probably go and watch it then.

[TrixxieTriss]

Do you actually still want them to be unisex today? Not in the meaning of desire, but after seeing all the reasons given why they can't or how it seems unreasonable, you are still in favor of the unisex option?

 

If so, making them unisex means that all the original content for a male would be lost and in several cases the male player would be addressed as she or a woman? What about dialogue with companions during class story, will they still call you a he, while your companion calls you a she, or is everything as is?

 

Assuming I got everything right, would this really be reasonable to ask of Bioware? And is it fair against male players who don't really want to be addressed as a woman or have lesser dialogue so others can have it their way? If you mean they should have been, but not today due to all the changes most of this I guess does not apply.

 

I'm pretty sure I answered that question already by saying that "while I would still like it, I know that it is never likely happen now and I'm ok with that"

 

So are you just trying to confirm my point or do you have an actual question in there that I am missing

[TrixxieTriss]

Why not swap NPCs as well? Maybe a male Kaliyo would be more interesting, or a female Jorgan. Surely that wouldn't be any more time-consuming- hire a few cheap voice actors while the rest 'go on strike' and bang out the dialogue in a few weeks. It's already written, just find people that can emote a bit. Surely the university has a drama club.

 

Maybe EA can have a Kickstarter for it!

 

Good point, not sure if it would be easier or not. But it could definitely go on the board of ideas if they were ever going to revisit the same gender companion story in the vanilla part of the game.

[Eshvara]

I'm pretty sure I answered that question already by saying that "while I would still like it, I know that it is never likely happen now and I'm ok with that"

 

So are you just trying to confirm my point or do you have an actual question in there that I am missing

 

I just wanted to see your stance on it, I don't think i've seen your post! So thanks for replying!

 

 

Why not swap NPCs as well? Maybe a male Kaliyo would be more interesting, or a female Jorgan. Surely that wouldn't be any more time-consuming- hire a few cheap voice actors while the rest 'go on strike' and bang out the dialogue in a few weeks. It's already written, just find people that can emote a bit. Surely the university has a drama club.

 

Maybe EA can have a Kickstarter for it!

 

I'd like a male Kaliyo, the attitude is totally my thing Yes please!

I don't see EA going for a kick starter however, it's probably embarassing for a multi billionaire company to ask for money... And if it isn't, it certainly should be.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Eshvara

[TrixxieTriss]

I just wanted to see your stance on it, I don't think i've seen your post! So thanks for replying!

 

 

I'd like a male Kaliyo, the attitude is totally my thing Yes please!

I don't see EA going for a kick starter however, it's probably embarassing for a multi billionaire company to ask for money... And if it isn't, it certainly should be.

 

LOL, I would laugh so hard if they had a kickstarter because it seems any messed up idea is valid at EA, so I wouldn't be surprised

[Ralei]

This discussion really should be in another thread, but I'm sick of being called out on it for not providing links. So I'm hopefully going to put the subject to bed with this post......

 

 

 

There were a few others. Sorry I can't find the page again, I closed it and my browser deletes history. I'll post the link if I find it again.

 

What a difference a few years makes. I doubt those same protests done today would get any traction now that gay marriage is protected under federal law.

[TrixxieTriss]

What a difference a few years makes. I doubt those same protests done today would get any traction now that gay marriage is protected under federal law.

 

Maybe not traction, but it wouldn't stop them trying, I'm sure they'd write letters and flame the web and protest and jump up and down and maybe March up and down the foot path with signs to say we are all going to hell. A law won't change the way they feel or behave, maybe in 100 years the hate won't be there.

The other difference now, is Disney own the Franchise and they are for equality.

 

This picture of some Storm Troopers, with the sign "Vader is Lord", standing next to a bunch of religious protesters always makes me smile.

https://ifunny.co/tags/stormtrooper/1435619243