Star Wars Galaxies - NGE

[kirorx]

If I logged in tomorrow and this game was a 1st person shooter...then it would be like the NGE

[Aowin]

Remarks like this make me question if you even played SWG. The NGE certainly had issues initially, but by the time the game was finally shut down six years later SWG was far better than Pre-CU or CU ever were in a multitude of ways.

 

Pre-Cu may have had 34 professions that offered a much more personalized experience, but it was also an empty, buggy mess with a lot of broken features and constant delays of content. NGE saw the introduction of battlegrounds, raids, more depth in all aspects of crafting, involved and unique gear progression, better combat and class balancing, Storyteller, Chronicler, Galactic Invasions, Atmospheric Flight, and much more.

 

I believe SOE made a mistake trying to fundamentally change what SWG was at the time into something it wasn't. However, I also believe the final product before it shut down was the perfect mix of sandbox and theme park that we've never seen in an MMORPG since.

 

Considering we don't even know anything about KOTET besides it will have nine chapters of story, a new group content mode, and is changing how gear progression works, I think your comments are a bit out of touch and a little ridiculous.

[Theeko]

I liked Swg no matter what state it was in tbh

[Nempo]

Laugh all you like, plenty of people laughed at those events... Remind me how much group content we've gotten in 2 years? Remind me how full the servers are?

 

Each one of those has killed off another part of the player base and it hasn't been replaced fully each time, and much of what DID replace it was a bunch of F2P kids who don't add much to the game.

 

So keep laughing and shrugging it off, live in fantasy land if you like. If the game was doing well, they wouldn't be making changes, the changes are here because the game ISN'T doing well, but that is because of all the other changes in the past. The game has been off the rails for some time, 5.0 is not going to put it back on.

 

Group content? We got plenty actually, and revitalized plenty of it...OH you think only raids are group content, gotcha.

 

Just remember, for every angry person on the forums, there are 10 happy people too busy playing to be bothered to praise them.

 

As for myself...I just want everything deliniated on the damn website every patch, and for them to STOP putting so much critical information anywhere other than the main website. Twitter is not the place to post the details of anything regarding your product, your product's actual webpage is. Until we have the full bullet point list we are going off too much speculation and MANY here are letting emotion guide their thoughts rather than logic.

[phalczen]

Remarks like this make me question if you even played SWG. The NGE certainly had issues initially, but by the time the game was finally shut down six years later SWG was far better than Pre-CU or CU ever were in a multitude of ways.

 

Pre-Cu may have had 34 professions that offered a much more personalized experience, but it was also an empty, buggy mess with a lot of broken features and constant delays of content. NGE saw the introduction of battlegrounds, raids, more depth in all aspects of crafting, involved and unique gear progression, better combat and class balancing, Storyteller, Chronicler, Galactic Invasions, Atmospheric Flight, and much more.

 

I believe SOE made a mistake trying to fundamentally change what SWG was at the time into something it wasn't. However, I also believe the final product before it shut down was the perfect mix of sandbox and theme park that we've never seen in an MMORPG since.

 

Considering we don't even know anything about KOTET besides it will have nine chapters of story, a new group content mode, and is changing how gear progression works, I think your comments are a bit out of touch and a little ridiculous.

 

We actually 100% agree on something tonight Aowin. Quick, buy a lottery ticket!

[TX_Angel]

Tux and I played on Flurry together for a long time after the NGE. I know because he convinced MasterCosmo to transfer servers. Or was it the other way around? Honestly I'm not sure how much more SWTOR would have to change to be equivalent in scope to the changes from pre-NGE to NGE. I will say this however.

 

I was around back then as well... Remind me again how many expansions and content releases SWG got from launch to Trials? How many after? How healthy was the population 6 months post-NGE?

 

SWG never recovered, it probably should have been shut down 2 years before it was.

 

Is 4.0 or 5.0 really NGE? No, but it may end up doing the same thing, if the servers get any more empty. There isn't even a full Harby fleet right now. Yea, yea, fleet isn't everything, but the place is empty...

[TX_Angel]

Group content? We got plenty actually, and revitalized plenty of it...OH you think only raids are group content, gotcha.

 

What are you smoking?

 

Plenty? What? Name it?

 

In 2 years, we've gotten 2 warzones, that's it...

[TX_Angel]

Remarks like this make me question if you even played SWG. The NGE certainly had issues initially, but by the time the game was finally shut down six years later SWG was far better than Pre-CU or CU ever were in a multitude of ways.

 

How much new content did it get in the last 2 years? How busy were the servers?

 

Was it healthy 1 year post Trials? Remind me again why Sony had to offer refunds to all the buyers of that?

[DarthWoad]

Remarks like this make me question if you even played SWG. The NGE certainly had issues initially, but by the time the game was finally shut down six years later SWG was far better than Pre-CU or CU ever were in a multitude of ways.

 

Pre-Cu may have had 34 professions that offered a much more personalized experience, but it was also an empty, buggy mess with a lot of broken features and constant delays of content. NGE saw the introduction of battlegrounds, raids, more depth in all aspects of crafting, involved and unique gear progression, better combat and class balancing, Storyteller, Chronicler, Galactic Invasions, Atmospheric Flight, and much more.

 

I believe SOE made a mistake trying to fundamentally change what SWG was at the time into something it wasn't. However, I also believe the final product before it shut down was the perfect mix of sandbox and theme park that we've never seen in an MMORPG since.

 

Considering we don't even know anything about KOTET besides it will have nine chapters of story, a new group content mode, and is changing how gear progression works, I think your comments are a bit out of touch and a little ridiculous.

 

Completely disagree with what you said. In my opinion pre-CU was the best. Sony only changed it to be more like wow rather than building on what it already had.

[phalczen]

I was around back then as well... Remind me again how many expansions and content releases SWG got from launch to Trials? How many after? How healthy was the population 6 months post-NGE?

 

SWG never recovered, it probably should have been shut down 2 years before it was.

 

Is 4.0 or 5.0 really NGE? No, but it may end up doing the same thing, if the servers get any more empty. There isn't even a full Harby fleet right now. Yea, yea, fleet isn't everything, but the place is empty...

 

Three and zero. Well, the game was around for more years post NGE than it was pre-NGE, 6 to 2.5. Yes, six years, Nov 2005 to Dec 2011. We have no idea on the official population size but I'll concede the playerbase shrank steadily. The thing is, it had been on decline from launch. There weren't any more expansions post NGE, but there was plenty of content released, some of it nearly expansion-level in scope, and yes I do consider the TCG content. I'd be on Harby fleet now if I wasn't a forum warrior instead tonight, and I can imagine many people are in the same boat, because they are very passionate about the game.

 

Look, Final Fantasy 14 had an NGE (maybe even worse by some measures since it was more like a re-launch) and its population improved. This game has been in a declining population since launch too, just like SWG. Even WOW has less people playing it than it did at its peak (which admittedly wasn't at launch, and even elderly wow has a higher population than swtor).

 

Its easy and tempting to draw comparisons between the two, but regardless, the communication around this seems to be better than in the case of the NGE.

[lilathrone]

it started life as a deep and complex MMO which was well liked by its player base

 

By all the 12 people.

[phalczen]

How much new content did it get in the last 2 years? How busy were the servers?

 

Was it healthy 1 year post Trials? Remind me again why Sony had to offer refunds to all the buyers of that?

 

Actually most of the cutting edge content regarding the Galactic Civil War was in the final two years, not including the TCG. There has yet to be anything like Storyteller in any game. CoH had a system introduced like Chronicles, but I know directly from the producer at the time that Chronicles was already in development in SWG when CoH announced their version. When you combine all the elements of sandbox retained even through the NGE, with new tech like Storyteller and Chronicles, there was truly nothing else like it, and I doubt there ever will be.

 

Hey, the refunds were the right thing to do. It was obvious that the NGE had to be in development long before TOOW launched. Its not like we didn't know there wouldn't be any ops in 2016 for a while. I don't think the development team communicates enough about SWTOR, but its better than the pre-NGE communication.

[TX_Angel]

Three and zero. Well, the game was around for more years post NGE than it was pre-NGE, 6 to 2.5. Yes, six years, Nov 2005 to Dec 2011. We have no idea on the official population size but I'll concede the playerbase shrank steadily. The thing is, it had been on decline from launch. There weren't any more expansions post NGE, but there was plenty of content released, some of it nearly expansion-level in scope, and yes I do consider the TCG content. I'd be on Harby fleet now if I wasn't a forum warrior instead tonight, and I can imagine many people are in the same boat, because they are very passionate about the game.

 

I don't for one second think that SWTOR will be shut down any time in the next 5 years. Rather my concern is that it has seen its expansions and even 5.0 is only 9 chapters. That may well be it.

 

Oh sure, there will be a PvP map in there, a Eternal Championship there, but that doesn't mean the game is healthy or fun for vets, it doesn't mean it will be worth playing anymore...

[Haruen]

I played SWG and the NGE.

 

This is not NGE. At all.

[UmbralSpirit]

Twas Smedley

 

Don't you DARE ever mentioning that name again!

 

 

 

 

[phalczen]

Hey, the refunds were the right thing to do. It was obvious that the NGE had to be in development long before TOOW launched. Its not like we didn't know there wouldn't be any ops in 2016 for a while. I don't think the development team communicates enough about SWTOR, but its better than the pre-NGE communication.

 

I hate quoting myself, but just to add to this:

 

People have known since NYCC that there would be no operations with the new expansion. They knew from summer 2015 that KOTFE was operation-less. So, there's been enough communication AND silence for people to know ops were gone for a while. There was arguably a true bait and switch at work when TOOW obviously in the final stages of development concurrently with the final stages of development of the NGE. I don't think there is nearly the same level of deception on the part of the SWTOR team as there was on the part of the SWG team. In fact, its quite the opposite. SWTOR has been very clear that KOTFE was in direct response to feedback regarding a lack of Bioware cinematic storytelling. No one explained the rationale for the NGE until Dan Rubenfield's blog post in 2008 "In which I try to speak honestly about history" three years after the NGE, later followed by some further comments from Koster seven years after that in 2015. Rubenfield's website is gone as his original post. But, I did find a couple articles summarizing and referring to it:

https://www.engadget.com/2008/06/16/dredging-up-the-past-the-star-wars-galaxies-nge-re-examined/

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/15/ex-star-wars-galaxy-designer-talks-nge/#more-1920

as well as Koster's blog detailing some of why the game was failing and what made the NGE necessary:

http://www.raphkoster.com/2015/04/16/a-jedi-saga/ (curiously he doesn't mention Dan Rubenfield's blog at all.)

 

Historical novelty for sure, and hindsight is always 20/20. Nevertheless, it is exceedingly clear that the motivations and impetus for the NGE were kept hidden from the players all while promoting this cool new expansion directly tied to the Revenge of the Sith movie release. This was particularly insulting if not illegal and quite appropriately SOE offered the refunds.

 

Bioware Austin has made some questionable decisions, but none to this level. I think its important to remember that, and I for one am gratefully anticipating today's live stream.

Edited October 20, 2016 by phalczen

[Master_Liu]

pretty much what i said here: http://wp.me/p5E4sq-4W

[kodrac]

Yes!!! Finally! The SWG NGE thread! I've been waiting for this. It took you long enough, man. Next will be the final nail in the coffin thread!

 

/popcorn

[Soljin]

They pulled the plug on SWG 5 years ago. Can we move on yet?

 

No! Pre-CU SWG will lives on in memory! I would play a reboot of SWG with updated graphics over any other game...Re-release it as it was day one minus the bugs......That game was ahead of its time...current MMO design has still not caught up.

 

Crazy bugs aside...

[Groncho]

NGE was the best SWG era

PRE-Cu was for fatties that loved to grind

 

This is getting back to PRE-Cu more than going to a new NGE

[IanArgent]

Yes!!! Finally! The SWG NGE thread! I've been waiting for this. It took you long enough, man. Next will be the final nail in the coffin thread!

 

/popcorn

 

Are they going to slap us in the face with the NGE, the nail, or the coffin?

 

Seriously, though, they're making a curious decision concerning how end-game gear will be available, and the forums lose their minds? Last year, at least, 4.0 actually changed core game mechanics with Level Sync and core game concepts by making all FPs Tactical and setting all ops to level-cap difficulty.

[Wayshuba]

Don't think this is an NGE style change. That being said, however, considering how much RNG PvE gear was despised in v1.0 and RNG PvP gear had the same thing when it was introduced I don't see how this is going to be good. Both of the previously mentioned resulted in a big drop in players, how BW doesn't think that will happen with this is beyond me. They have become far to enamored with the CM crates and have lost sight of important in game things.

 

Based on the massive uproar this announcement has caused, I really do hope they are not foolish enough to continue to implement the RNG gear at this point. While it is not NGE, history with this game has shown the RNG end game has caused a mass exodus of players in the past. Why they think it will be different this time I really don't know.

[kodrac]

No! Pre-CU SWG will lives on in memory! I would play a reboot of SWG with updated graphics over any other game...Re-release it as it was day one minus the bugs......That game was ahead of its time...current MMO design has still not caught up.

 

Crazy bugs aside...

 

Ah yes, the good ol' days of sitting in the med center for hours getting rid of the black bars. Good times, good times.

[Degan]

...Based on the massive uproar this announcement has caused, I really do hope they are not foolish enough to continue to implement the RNG gear at this point. While it is not NGE, history with this game has shown the RNG end game has caused a mass exodus of players in the past. Why they think it will be different this time I really don't know.

 

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.” Sir Winston Churchill

[TUXs]

Group content? We got plenty actually, and revitalized plenty of it...OH you think only raids are group content, gotcha.

 

Just remember, for every angry person on the forums, there are 10 happy people too busy playing to be bothered to praise them.

I could say the same for Story content...we have far more of it than any MMO ever needs. But...players like NEW content for what they like. Is that so odd to you?

 

And for every 10 people happily playing, over 100 have quit without saying a word. Ignorance of the changes, doesn't mean players are going to be happy with them. The only meaningful praise Bioware needs, is subs...THAT is the greatest measure of "praise".