Star Wars Galaxies - NGE

[ScottishDrunk]

Is 5.0 SWTOR's NGE?

 

For those that never played SWG.. it started life as a deep and complex MMO which was well liked by its player base

 

Then WOW came along.

 

The SWG devs dumbed the game down to make it more like WOW despite the protest of the player base (reduced the classes from 40 odd to 9 and made Jedi playable from the start.. something that could previously only be unlocked after a very ver very long grind and a some luck. Hybriding classes was removed along with pretty much everything else that made it stand out from other mmos). It was called the New Game Experience

 

As a result of the player base being ignore people left the game in droves and it does a slow horrible painful death.. eventually being put out of its misery just before SWTOR launched.

 

What we have here with 5.0 is a set up which seems universally hated, but there's been nothing from the powers that be to indicate that anything will be done to change this and they seem to be pushing on despite the protest of the players.

 

Are we seeing a 2nd Star Wars MMO dying off the same way as the first?

[TUXs]

Nah...apples and oranges still. NGE fundamentally every single aspect of the game...5.0 is the closest they've gotten, but it's still not there. 1.0 to 5.0, you might have an argument to make...but not 4.0 to 5.0.

[MadDutchman]

lol, this particular bit of speculation has come up with the last 2 major expansions (and probably even before that, I just don't remember them). Proved false then, and I see no reason to assume this will be another NGE.

 

 

Let's face it, the complex style for SWG worked for some, but was a huge issue for most people. The SWG players love blaming the NGE for it's failure, but, as per usual, reality is a bit more complicated than that.

[Degan]

Not sure I would go to that extreme, but I believe once ALL of the changes with 5.0 are realized, there will be a disturbance of some sort.

 

We have probably only seen the tip of the iceberg. We still have class changes to see in the next couple of weeks, so who knows what that entails based on what we have been told about the gearing lottery.

[myrdinn]

CU/NGE is still far, far, far, far worse than anything done in this game thus far.

 

edit: The best comparison from SWG on this, was publish 8 and 9 (when how to spawn a FPS toon changed to the village grind). Except, the village grind turned into a predictable thing, whereas this seems to be a jump in the other direction.

Edited October 19, 2016 by myrdinn

[Tsetso]

I'd say it's more CU than NGE

[ScottishDrunk]

Sorry I've not been been clear, most have missed my point ..

 

It was more the fact that the devs seem to be ignoring the players rather than the level of changes

[Andryah]

It's not Fall season, leading up to an new SWTOR expac without the obligatory attempts at comparisons to SWG-NGE.

 

They pulled the plug on SWG 5 years ago. Can we move on yet?

Edited October 19, 2016 by Andryah

[myrdinn]

Sorry I've not been been clear, most have missed my point ..

 

It was more the fact that the devs seem to be ignoring the players rather than the level of changes

 

Well, the big problem there is that some of the SOE devs, sporadically, and at different times DID listen. Twas Smedley and higher up that consulted with non-SWG players that really screwballed some things...

the CU you and I saw was actually NOT what was on the closed test shard... that CU (which I'll call CU1) was pretty solid and the result of communication between some players, our correspondents, and the devs. THAT particular CU1 would have had a lot different reaction than the CU we did get.

The released CU was a step in the wrong way (and the result of Executive interference)... and between how the higher ups reacted to the forums, the folks on the forums who were confused about the CU (as it was different than the closed CU1), the ragequits, etc. that noise really burned everyone to the point of no one actually listening.

 

...which, a little while later, resulted in Smedley talking to non-SWG players in the hopes of figuring out how to make a SWG that the non-base would play, before LA pulled the rug on them/his devs of that time (which where something like Dev Crew #3).

 

/still miss craftable fire blankets that stop mind-fire

//slashes are cool

///fezzes, though...

[Wikkader]

My recommendation:

- Go to the Search window in the top right corner.

- Type "NGE" and click Search.

- See the 40 threads stating that the new release is "SWTOR's NGE" (all the way back to 1.1!).

- Understand that your post is alarmist and unoriginal.

- Come back in December and see what the update is all about!

[Jnaathra]

lol, this particular bit of speculation has come up with the last 2 major expansions (and probably even before that, I just don't remember them). Proved false then, and I see no reason to assume this will be another NGE.

 

 

Let's face it, the complex style for SWG worked for some, but was a huge issue for most people. The SWG players love blaming the NGE for it's failure, but, as per usual, reality is a bit more complicated than that.

 

I don't think this newest expansion is the NGE of SWTOR, however it is a step in the wrong direction.

 

However, the NGE was entirely to blame for the complete and total meltdown of SWG. I lived and breathed that game all the way through and several months into the NGE. I have never seen a population exit more quickly. The developers themselves came out after the game's demise and have admitted that they ignored the community and their game suffered from turning a blind eye and a deaf ear.

[Andryah]

My recommendation:

- Go to the Search window in the top right corner.

- Type "NGE" and click Search.

- See the 40 threads stating that the new release is "SWTOR's NGE" (all the way back to 1.1!).

- Understand that your post is alarmist and unoriginal.

- Come back in December and see what the update is all about!

 

^^ /wins the thread.

[Ralei]

CU was way worse than NGE, imo. Adding combat levels to that game was crazy town. That said, 5.0 is not anything like what CU was.

 

5.0 reminds me of the Wow Cata expansion. (which actually made me quit.... hmm.)

[FrostTrooper]

As has been stated before, this type of Chicken Little attitude dates back to the beginning of the game. I can't remember specifics, but I'm PRETTY sure there were similar threads even back during beta!

 

Instead of flying off the handle and predicting the end of the game, why don't we wait for more information to come out? Most of the freaking out is based 100% on speculation. BW is partially to blame for it by not releasing much info and just giving a taste but it was just that a taste. Relax, enjoy the game and see where it goes.

[Deewe]

CU was way worse than NGE, imo. Adding combat levels to that game was crazy town. That said, 5.0 is not anything like what CU was.

It was certainly a huge change Now the NGE changed the core of the game way more than what the CU did.

 

Anyway back on topic: in terms of game design we can certainly not compare tweaking a loot mechanic to changing the core game play, removing systems like the creature handler and either removing or drastically changing classes.

 

People are right to say 5.0 is bringing some changes still in no way as deep as what NGE did.

 

Also don't forget regarding the communication SOE lied to the players till the last minute making them buy the last Xpack to change the game 2 weeks afterwards. BioWare isn't trying to lie to their customers.

 

There's a reason some of us will never ever buy a Sony product ever.

[Forgettableone]

*snip*

They pulled the plug on SWG 5 years ago. Can we move on yet?

 

NO! I wanna go home! My expertly decorated large Tatooine house is still waiting for me outside Anchorhead (the proper one with the bridge and Squill hunts)

 

On Topic - As others have said, this feels more like the CU than the NGE, problem was, for me, that was when everyone buggered off and became wombles. MBH/MCom was fun for about 2 weeks then realised how useless it was then went Entertainer.

[TX_Angel]

Nah...apples and oranges still. NGE fundamentally every single aspect of the game...5.0 is the closest they've gotten, but it's still not there. 1.0 to 5.0, you might have an argument to make...but not 4.0 to 5.0.

 

3.0 to 5.0, closer...

 

SWTOR has never been the same since 4.0 dropped... I used to have a serious SWTOR habit, 4.0 broke me of that and 5.0 isn't going to do it any favors...

 

2.x to 3.x were the good years... 1.x was a bit rough, but growing pains combined with a new game can explain some of that, which is why I didn't complain back then and stuck with it. 5 years in there is no excuse for this.

[TX_Angel]

They pulled the plug on SWG 5 years ago. Can we move on yet?

 

You must not have been around for that... Changing a game constantly does not generally help it...

 

A 5 year old game is unlikely to bring in more players from the changes than it drives away from the anger towards those changes...

 

CU was bad enough, NGE torpedoed that game completely... Oh sure, it was around 5 more years after that, but it never had another boxed expansion and was solidly in MX mode after that. They even had to offer refunds for people who bought Trials of Obi-Wan because of the changes to the game from NGE...

 

It was empty and done after that and just put on life-support.

 

SWTOR risks the same fate with these constant complete changes.

[TX_Angel]

Instead of flying off the handle and predicting the end of the game, why don't we wait for more information to come out?

 

We did, when 4.0 launched... it never got better..

 

Most of the freaking out is based 100% on speculation. BW is partially to blame for it by not releasing much info and just giving a taste but it was just that a taste. Relax, enjoy the game and see where it goes.

 

A good predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If 5.0 is anything like 4.0, the game is toast...

 

I haven't enjoyed the game since before 4.0. KotFE is complete dog crap as far as I'm concerned, it is bad fan fiction by bad writers who don't understand Star Wars and the game changes were largely stupid and unneeded. They ruined an otherwise nice game.

[ReverendAnderson]

Two years ago: "Are Disciplines SWTOR's NGE?"

Last year: "Is Level Sync SWTOR's NGE?"

This year: "Is RNG Gearing SWTOR's NGE?"

 

I'm sure this question was asked before 3.0 as well, because it gets asked every time anything changes, but I've already forgotten it.

[JabbaWabbA]

reminds me of NGE's holocron grind.

[TX_Angel]

Two years ago: "Are Disciplines SWTOR's NGE?"

Last year: "Is Level Sync SWTOR's NGE?"

This year: "Is RNG Gearing SWTOR's NGE?"

 

I'm sure this question was asked before 3.0 as well, because it gets asked every time anything changes, but I've already forgotten it.

 

Laugh all you like, plenty of people laughed at those events... Remind me how much group content we've gotten in 2 years? Remind me how full the servers are?

 

Each one of those has killed off another part of the player base and it hasn't been replaced fully each time, and much of what DID replace it was a bunch of F2P kids who don't add much to the game.

 

So keep laughing and shrugging it off, live in fantasy land if you like. If the game was doing well, they wouldn't be making changes, the changes are here because the game ISN'T doing well, but that is because of all the other changes in the past. The game has been off the rails for some time, 5.0 is not going to put it back on.

[LyraineAlei]

No, 3.0 was SWTOR's NGE, remember? And with .. what was it, 2.8, finally giving up decoratable homes?

 

And then 4.0 was the NEW SWTOR NGE.

 

5.0 is just the EVEN NEWER New SWTOR NGE.

[phalczen]

I can't believe it took so long for one of these threads to show up.

 

Tux and I played on Flurry together for a long time after the NGE. I know because he convinced MasterCosmo to transfer servers. Or was it the other way around? Honestly I'm not sure how much more SWTOR would have to change to be equivalent in scope to the changes from pre-NGE to NGE. I will say this however.

 

The NGE was placed on SWG's version of the PTS for open testing about one month before it was scheduled to launch and one month after a paid expansion's launch. I know because I played SWG from beta till the day the servers shut down, and I went onto the TestCenter to try out the changes for the "open beta." Despite extensive negative feedback, the changes went through. There was so little interaction from developers that they had to start a series of their version of cantinas approximately five months after launch, and about a year later started a group of community members who had to sign NDAs and were often approached for feedback. I know, because I was one of them, having attended several of their "cantinas" in 2006 The community manager at the time left shortly after launch of the NGE, if I recall correctly, but its been eleven years so I may be incorrect. Admittedly, streaming and Twitter didn't exist back in Nov 2005 when the NGE launched, but Podcasts were most definitely a thing and there were two fan-made still rolling at the time of the NGE.

 

At least here, the devs have a follow up Live stream scheduled merely three days after the first one to address concerns. That is a major plus in my book. You can argue about whether the changes in 5.0 rise to the level of the "sweeping changes" of the NGE, but in my informed opinion the communication is way better about this.

Edited October 20, 2016 by phalczen

[Rolodome]

I think comparing it to the NGE is ludicrous, to put it simply.

 

The NGE took something like 36 unique professions and neutered them into 9. They took Jedi, which once required effort, and made it into a starter class. The CU and NGE together essentially took an open-world sandbox game and tried to turn it into a WoW clone.

 

SWTOR has always been similar to WoW and the changes being made now (that we know of) are not all that drastic. They are changes and have potential problems, but that's about where the similarity ends. 5.0 is not universally hated. The RNG of the GC boxes is largely hated from those who have spoken about it on the forums, in the context of what we know about it.

 

Also, I did not play this game extensively in its early days, but I did play it enough in beta to be able to tell that it has not changed all that drastically since beta. At its core, it pretty much feels like the same game I played all those years ago.

 

In contrast, I remember loading into post-NGE for the first time, after having played last in the pre-CU era. It was like someone had taken the game I once knew, kept the planets and character designs, but otherwise turned it into a completely different game.