SithKoriandr Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 What exactly was released in the last 24 hours to have people up in a tizzy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDebris Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 What exactly was released in the last 24 hours to have people up in a tizzy? All romance choices are being replaced with Skadge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 All romance choices are being replaced with Skadge. Yup. That would do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 All romance choices are being replaced with Skadge. LMAO.. that's awesome.. can I put him in a skirt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lironBD Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 out of all the games I played and products I purchased throughout my life SWTOR got the worst business-client communication. they will ignore most concerns and during streams they are like in a bubble ignoring the chat. on the forums they will not converse in most threads as well. as community manager if bioware does not converse with its clients I'll expect mr musco to make a summery of issues the players have > send it up the chain and open a thread with answers > bare minimum. I don't see any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Yep, no one expect politicians to tell the truth.. sad but true I do... but I'm silly like that... If you tell me that we're going to raise my taxes, but in return provide X social service, I may well be ok with that. Lay out your case with facts and figures, with an honest discussion of the pros and cons. Then we can all discuss it like adults and vote on it. The debates would be interesting if that is what would actually happen, instead it is insults and talking points with lots of lies and half-truths tossed in. A real debate is "point-counterpoint" and the moderators keep score. I've managed many businesses and like yourself I now have one of my own. People who cause problems and disharmony because of confrontational attitudes, don't last long. I'm all for healthy discussions and I listen to peoples points of view, but at the end of the day it is my decision, not theirs. Once I've made that decision the discussion is over. I didn't become really successful in business until I learned to let some of that go... Or rather, to learn when to use the "I'm the boss, so I win" approach. Yes, there are times when that is needed, but I found I got far more buy-in from my employees when I learned to let them make decisions, even sometimes over my own objections, but in return they get to own the results. It is the difference between worker-bees and partners in the enterprise. If Eric is really in charge of community relations, then he should have some decision making power in how to do that. If he doesn't, then he is just a worker-bee. A company of just worker-bees without decision makers is a piss-poor company. The manager or owner of any business is the last line of decision making. It's their responsibility to make the hard decisions, wether they are right or wrong, they have to live with it and its usually why they get paid the big bucks. Eric should be that person, if he is in charge of community relations... If he isn't, then they need to get whoever is in charge out here... My career and my business has always relied on exceptional customer service standards. But every now and then you may have to disappoint your customers for what ever reason and it's great when staff bring things to your attention that you may not have known about and it's always good to give positive reinforcement when they do. Do you believe that EA/Bioware does a good job in informing customers of those hard choices and letting people down easily, or do they treat their customers like crap? Maybe dial back the Eric hate and try and consider how he must feel when you attack his integrity. Eric has directly lied multiple times and never addresses the issues again, even when promising to do so. Now he may not have been the source of those lies, but it was his choice to be the customer facing person delivering them. A person worthy of respect would have refused to do it. So Eric either is incompetent or dishonest... which is worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Sorry, but that isn't showing me a post where he lied. Please link it so I can make my own assessment of it and not just rely on hear say. I'm sure when you come to opinions or decisions in your business, you use facts and not just what someone tells you. I'll happily concede he lied of his own accord and it wasn't because of backend pressure, if you can show me proof. That would require more time than I'm willing to put in. Believe me or don't, it doesn't matter to me and I'm not getting paid enough to dredge all that back up. Further consider that you're never going to get a post where a lie is obvious in one sentence without context, you'd have to understand what was happening when the CSM came out, the order of events, the order of Eric's posts, to see it. I was there and was very vocal about the whole thing, I remember it in plenty of detail that I called Eric out for lying at that time, not that it mattered. Finally, consider that calling someone a lair is a serious thing, I don't take it lightly. It is an attack on his character, not a reflection of a complaint over a policy or business decision. I stand by it, Eric directly lied to us, said things that were not true, promised to further address it, and never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 There is no ethic in business, that's just a myth companys tell common folks to give them a false sense of security. I run an ethical business and make a profit, so that is one data point that disproves your idea... Indeed, some businesses are unethical, but not all. It is possible to balance profit with ethics if you want to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
force_fortytwo Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think it's also an issue with the resources the Dev team was left with to run the game. I'm pretty sure that BW have gone from "rising star" to "cash cow" with this game quite quickly after launch (Cartel market and F2P clearly indicate this imo), and that they're running this game on the lowest possible number of employees, offices, server space for internal testing etc., just because they are maxing out the gains for EA. Profitability is all that counts on the economic score, and make no mistake - as soon as this game stops being profitable, it will be shut down. Period. This accounts for almost all of the changes, features etc. within the past 3 years; GSF probably having been the last "coffin nail" for greater financial support from EA's part towards BW, considering how much coding and testing that must have taken and that it's largely become a flop. (And I think I remember that quite a number of people on these forums DEMANDED stuff like that in the first year, saying "those railroaded space missions suck"). That being said, I think the Community Manager - Eric - is truly a One-Man-Army. He needs to do his job ALONE, at least on forums other than the bug reports section. There is a whole bunch of posts every hour, of which some are just bland time-killers because he cannot do anything about the issue the OP has, and the variety of forums does the rest. Consider a 9-hour working day, seriously reading the latest posts within a thread taking about 10 minutes (depending on how much he missed, could even take longer) and a well-conceived reply from his part taking up about 15-20 minutes including research of information and cross-checking with what he's allowed to say. So, if he intends to reply to about every tenth thread he reads, it'll take him AT LEAST 100 minutes reading before writing a reply for 20 minutes, taking 2 hours of his time. Multiply that by 4.5 (to get to 9 hours) and you get a MAXIMUM average of 45 read threads and 4-5 replies a day. And this calculation considers he has NOTHING else to do all day and is just reading the Forums. Considering that, I do not think ANYONE has the right to blame Eric for anything that is going wrong with this game. I have been a community manager in my business for only a year, and I hated this job because Management gets pissed at you if you don't create input for the community (in my business people do not participate as readily as in a gaming community, they need an incentive and I wasn't exactly an expert in their field), the community gets pissed at you for about anything that does not leave them alone... and come some time, you tend to lose your connection to both if you miss the last opportunity to side with one of them or do not even get this opportunity. By the way, who's paying Eric's salary each month? Effectively, it's EA, not the players. So it would be a huge mistake for Eric to whine on the forums if he tried to fight for something the players brought up and was ignored - doing so would cause direct damage to BW's or EA's Reputation and would definitely cost Eric his job, maybe even cause a lawsuit. So I do not think that anybody can reasonably confer that he's ignoring us just because he doesn't let us participate in what he does internally. I don't condone everything BW does with/to this game, and I'm not entirely sure that it'll survive post-5.x, promoting KOTET chapter 9 as an epic last fight for the throne. But shooting the messenger is definitely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaticFringer Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 *nods* In regards to the OP... this thing made me think of a SWG Dev that posted one time in regards to the NGE that game had that made it suffer in an attempt to copy WoW and bring in the masses but only succeeded in pushing away a large chunk of it's playerbase. Essentially it goes like this. The Devs are doing their jobs. The suits (people in charge) tell them what to do. Sometimes a Dev gets a little leeway, does extra work from home they don't have to do, and can tweak and get us a little extra in game or convince the people in charge that an upcoming change is bad. It doesn't mean they get that change stopped though. The quote went something like this... "We're basically plumbers. We can tell you it is a bad idea to put a toilet right in the middle of your living room. But if the boss tells us that is where it is going, we do it." Which is basically a they don't want to lose their jobs regardless of what the work may wind up causing. And I think we can all understand the sentiment. This feels like a suits call to me more so than a Dev call. SWTOR... meet a streamlined SWG NGE. But don't get too riled up on blame till you know where this ball started rolling down hill from. I still say they need to just leave the PvE gearing system the hell alone. Adopt a kind of Star Trek Online unlock system for F2P members (so grindy you're better off subbing for the content unless you want to put yourself through that hell or have no choice because of funds). And, lastly, keep that DvL grind mechanic and put Cartel Market and newly created items (legacy bound) in the Command Crates. You give people a reason to sub. A chance at cartel items or new items. You don't p.o. a lot of your current subscribers. Keeping the pve gearing the way it is now. Which really isn't that bad at all. They just need to tweak crafting a bit. And, basically, you lose less players over this mess. Already lost some over the past summer because of the way DvL Event was designed with little to no regard to existing characters and people getting fed up with no new FPs/OPs news. Sweeping changes are usually never a good idea. Change is good, if it is an actual improvement. Not if it's just being done just to be done and/or an attempt to bring in new Subs that may, or may not, come in. SWG was my first game (2003/2004) but I know a little about the other mmorpgs that came before it and this is history repeating itself from my experience. Eric def' has a tough job. Albeit one that can be a lot of fun too, I imagine. The bearer of bad news is not always the source of said bad news so to speak. And, of course, bad news can be very subjective. A group is always happy with changes or choose the wait and see approach. Some of us, from experience, know that rollbacks (changing or deciding to get rid of a change) after it is patched to live... rarely ever happens in mmorpgs now... which is why we try to voice our concerns before they push it live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeCKSEgai Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 The way I look at it, if Eric was actually playing and enjoying the game regularly he would have had enough personal stake in what's going on. It's been pretty clear that he does not and is just merely serving as the messenger for what feels like frequent bad news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodrac Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Yes, and I've quit such jobs when the owner of the company behaved in a way that I thought was dishonorable... I have now owned my own business for a very long time and have employed many people. I reward and promote those who behave ethically and fire those who don't. It has served me well for a long time, I have a small group (about 12) of employees who look after me and my company and in return I look after them and share half the profits with them. It has worked well for more than a decade... I would never run my company the way EA is running this place, it is a shame that they so completely don't care about their customers... Good for you, you live on a mystical moral high ground, but who are you to tell someone what to do with their livelihood? No one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlavivsAetivs Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) The way I look at it, if Eric was actually playing and enjoying the game regularly he would have had enough personal stake in what's going on. It's been pretty clear that he does not and is just merely serving as the messenger for what feels like frequent bad news. You know this I agree with. Although it's possible he may play the closed betas or something of that sort and not be allowed to talk about it. I heard the Non-Disclosure Agreement for the Beta this time was pretty extreme for the players, and I'm sure it's even more so for the devs. ~ Eudoxia Edited October 19, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timtheheloguy Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think we should all take a moment to consider that everything that has been released over the last 24 hours isn't Eric's doing or fault. We often forget that he is constrained by what he is allowed to tell us. He is also only telling us what others have done with the game. Eric is not a developer and as such can only pass info back and forth. Let's take a minute to acknowledge that Eric has an extremely difficult job and is often the brunt of our rage and dissatisfaction towards Bioware as a company. He must have an exceptionally thick skin and resolve to try and not let that get to him personally, but even the best of us can only filter so much. I think he is doing a great job under those circumstances. I'm guilty myself at seemingly raging at Eric. I would like to apologise to Eric for some of my posts that name him or I've indirectely put the blame on him, when in reality they are directed at the developers and creative teams who make the decisions. Keep up the good work and we look forward to any answers you can provide to our multitude of questions and concerns regarding the expansion. /Signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Eric is great! He is a witty dude. /Signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoForMe Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) When myself and others won too much in group ranked through legitimate means and flagged their metrics (I and others got emails threatening to ban us for win trading) I spoke with Eric and he put a stop to it. He's been a winner in my books ever since. The dev team as a whole has serious and maybe irreparable problems, but Eric isn't one of them. Edited October 19, 2016 by EnzoForMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlavivsAetivs Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Don't shoot the messenger. Eric couldn't ban a player who was stalking a friend of mine in-game (and out of game), although he went out of his way to make sure the Customer Service people got the hundreds of screenshots we sent in and offered her free server transfer for all of her toons as well as free name changes and a legacy name change. He really is a good guy, he just gets thrown to the wolves. ~ Eudoxia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourPawnBenoni Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Yeah, and I can't believe how quickly he has come to the forums to say "Guys, I am reading a lot of concerns here. I understand and will speak to the devs ASAP about them". Nope, just the usual "I'll pass on your feedback" without acknowledging what that feedback is. Oh wait, he didn't did he? And if you think he needs permission from "his boss" to say something as simple as that then you're living in a dreamworld. Check out Star Wars Galazy of Heroes forums. Same company, but their community manager is CONSTANTLY engaging with the community. EAJesse has 621 REPLIES in less than a year (11 months) not even including the discussions he's started (over 200). Musco has only 500 total posts (including replies) in the past 16 months. Musco has posted a total of FOUR times in 2016 to the PVP forum. Yes, only 4 times, and 3 of those were to just post info on ranked rewards and one of them was a reply. The game is dying, there are mistakes the devs make constantly that turn more people away from the game. Eric's not the only problem, but he is a problem with his lack of engagement with the community. If you can't see that, then you're just fooling yourself. Edited October 19, 2016 by FourPawnBenoni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 Yeah, and I can't believe how quickly he has come to the forums to say "Guys, I am reading a lot of concerns here. I understand and will speak to the devs ASAP about them". Nope, just the usual "I'll pass on your feedback" without acknowledging what that feedback is. Oh wait, he didn't did he? And if you think he needs permission from "his boss" to say something as simple as that then you're living in a dreamworld. Check out Star Wars Galazy of Heroes forums. Same company, but their community manager is CONSTANTLY engaging with the community. EAJesse has 621 REPLIES in less than a year (11 months) not even including the discussions he's started (over 200). Musco has only 500 total posts (including replies) in the past 16 months. Musco has posted a total of FOUR times in 2016 to the PVP forum. Yes, only 4 times, and 3 of those were to just post info on ranked rewards and one of them was a reply. The game is dying, there are mistakes the devs make constantly that turn more people away from the game. Eric's not the only problem, but he is a problem with his lack of engagement with the community. If you can't see that, then you're just fooling yourself. But we know they don't read the pvp forums or any other section outside of general... nothing new there... most pvpers understand that if you want an issue looked at you need to post in the general section... I'd love them to pay attention to the pvp section, but the general section is so active and constant that they only have so much time on their hands. He may have only replied 4 times in the pvp section, but how many posts are there for the general section? I also play SW galaxy heroes... you'll find that those replies have started to tapper off since the beta phase... plus they aren't anywhere near as active as this forum... I can't say what actually goes on in the Bioware offices, no one can... maybe the communication style could be done differently, but lots of what Eric writes is short and sweet and to the point.. it's doesn't need to be "flowery".. Seeing how many post have been made just in those 2 threads he created on the changes is mind boggling.. hopefully he has some people to go through and flag ones that are relevant or he will be spending the next week just reading lots of posts that are people talking to each other and not something he needs to answer... the fact that he's been able to get out something is good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Good for you, you live on a mystical moral high ground, but who are you to tell someone what to do with their livelihood? No one. Your reply comes from the young generation of "anything goes, there is no right or wrong" You're mistaken, but you won't learn that for awhile, if ever, assuming the evil people in the world give you that chance. There very much is right or wrong and if you don't fight against it, then civilization is lost. There is a reason we have anti-trust laws, without them evil business people do evil. There are good companies in the world, and yes, it is right to call out when people do wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACharlieV Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Good for you, you live on a mystical moral high ground, but who are you to tell someone what to do with their livelihood? No one. Right! I'm sure Eric's family would surely understand if he quit his job suddenly over...a change in gameplay? Eric is a community manager. He's not moving money around or falsifying documents for insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 He really is a good guy, he just gets thrown to the wolves. ~ Eudoxia Then he shouldn't lie directly to the player base, which he has done on more than one occasion... Even people who don't give a crap do the right thing from time to time, but that doesn't absolve them of their faults... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACharlieV Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Then he shouldn't lie directly to the player base, which he has done on more than one occasion... Even people who don't give a crap do the right thing from time to time, but that doesn't absolve them of their faults... What has he lied about again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabethchase Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 He's done a great job here. He answered the 1 most vital question: the crate gear is moddable currently. that's the key to this whole system, the ability to distribute the loot to where it's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 What has he lied about again? Lots of things, you not wishing to see it doesn't make it any less true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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