OMG Something nearly everyone agrees with

[Methylium]

I like the new system.

[Icykill_]

I don't know if the community is blowing it out of proportion, based on the evidence that we have in terms of the generic overview of gearing. I've asked a fair few questions that concern me over in one of the gearing threads (it's a fair list), if BioWare haven't forseen the potential issues then I'll completely agree with you about the changes not being welcome.

 

There is a lot of potential for things to go badly. Personally I'm just viewing this as an extension of removing any and all point to progression in any form of content within the game. 6.0 will likely see the removal of levels and gear and be done with it all.

 

We can then run naked in pvp and throw snow balls at each other lol

[Jadescythe]

It's not about the existence of RNG, or lack thereof, though that is certainly a part of it that frustrates people. It's the idea that there is NO good alternative path. The strength of token systems and the reason they have been used in a number of games is that if RNG is failing you, you can save up tokens and get what you want through that, so there is always a way to avoid escaping the bad luck trap.

 

In a purely RNG system, there will, statistically speaking, be people who will need far longer to get the things they want than is intended. And why? Because they got bad die rolls, while their buddy gets it all in a week. People are sensitive to fairness and forcing an inherently unfair system with no alternative path is going to breed discontent.

 

This is compounded by the gearing system and the inability of BW to stat anything correctly. I don't just need to get one of every piece to min/max, I need every piece, plus 10 copies of gloves to pull the mod out of and 10 copies of boots to pull the enhancement out of. So when I keep getting belts over and over, it will be a million times worse.

 

Then consider that the piece you got may not even be for the spec you were looking for! So now, my 10 belts that have high endurance and defense on the pieces are totally worthless to my DPS Jugg. Even in the current system where you get a token, min/maxing is dificult in both PvE and PvP, so I can only imagine the rage we will see from an RNG loot box system. Not to mention the disparity between desired stats for PvP and PvE. I can only imagine the terrible drops PvP tanks will have to endure to get high endurance mods without defense on them.

[Phyreblade]

The red part of your quote clearly indicates you don't understand the issue. I've seen very few people freaking out because "zomg, muh pvp gears". 100%, having to get lucky to get the gear you need is terrible for the game. There is no saving grace and there is no change they can make for the people being vocal to accept it other than NOT making it RNG based.

 

I was pointing out one of my traditional headaches in regards gear, and pointing out it's an issue I will personally not have to deal with anymore apparently. From what I'm reading and looking at, which is incredibly limited right now, gear will come to those who DO these activities and at the rate of difficulty they DO them. AND that gear will be divvied out according to Advanced Class, so I won't be getting tank-gear for my healer.

 

RNG is always a "w"itch. I've literally gone months without getting a piece of gear from the Operations I was running around back in the days of DF and DP goodness, mind you. I respect people complaining at being at the mercy of the RNG gods all over again. But it's not something I am really going to join in, either.

[Andryah]

You clearly don't remember launch then. Maybe too much time playing MMO's?!

 

You seem to be the only person keen on RNG for end game gear, but I guess there is always one.

 

Plus SWTOR isn't an MMO it's an SP RP game lol.

 

As I have stated in multiple threads, I am actually neutral on RNG for the GC boxes at this point. I need to see in in play before judging. I encourage others to adopt a similar approach.

 

And sorry.. but this is an MMO. I play it with other players all the time.. sometimes many players all at once. And on the servers I play on.. there are tons of players all the time.. doing all sorts of things together and separately. Sorry to hear that you have nobody to play with. Nice dig at the game on your part though.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Andryah

[t-darko]

... but the overwhelming majority think the whole thing is a terrible idea.

 

And you're surprised!!! Just name 2 things that haven't caused a major Rage Rant Panic . . . just 2:rolleyes:

 

But I'll come clean, I hate changes, I hate to re learn everything after these changes, but I also understand that it's human nature to do so. we all want things to stay as we know them to be, but the only certainty in life and gaming is that they won't, not ever . . .

[Icykill_]

Since Eric just posted they're still working on the Relic drops, it's not yet set in stone. Drop Tables are pretty easy to change.

 

This is sort of the reason we need to be vocal.. so that they see and hear all this before the release.. if they aren't willing to, can't or won't delay a launch to change a system that most people are vehemently against, then the next best thing is to get them to action the stuff that's "not too hard to change"

[CorellianWannabe]

Actually, your chances with a slot machine are higher than your average droprates in MMO's.

 

More a remark about Andryah's tantrum/quitting over slot machine payout rates in the past.

[TUXs]

The RNG gear part needs to be refined, but 5.0 as a whole does not seem to be a massive failure.

Agreed. I don't care about the lack of PvP vs PvE gear, it's just the whole RNG thing that has me very disgusted. We've already tried that here...and it FLOPPED! IT FAILED! IT SUCKED! We've had RNG gear before...why the hell bring back something so universally disliked??? It blows my mind...what the hell?! Get rid of the RNG and I'll support nearly any alternative...but RNG gear is freaking TERRIBLE!!!!!!

[Andryah]

This is sort of the reason we need to be vocal.. so that they see and hear all this before the release.. if they aren't willing to, can't or won't delay a launch to change a system that most people are vehemently against, then the next best thing is to get them to action the stuff that's "not too hard to change"

 

Windmill sighting.

 

Yes.. we should collectively express what we do not like AND what we do like. But to expect it to result in changes in their path to release is unrealistic. Past performance on PTS should be ample proof of this for you.

 

You may continue your assault on that Windmill.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Andryah

[CorellianWannabe]

RNG is not inherently bad. Yet you would think from this new crop of MMOers (read most of this forum) they cannot handle the idea they might actually have to runt he content 4-5 times to get a single drop...THAT is raiding! If you get gear every single time you run, you aren't raiding...you are beating a loot piniata.

...and people wonder why raiding is dying, a little RNG has you scared and running.

 

So what if the box doesn't give you exactly what you want every time? Yeah I've had absolute horrible luck with those alliance crates but they are an additional reward for doing content I love. If you run whatever you enjoy doing (heroics, FPs, PvP, OPs, etc) you will earn credit toward that rank and earn those commander crates alongside whatever you earn doing whatever you do. In other words...a whole lot of crying and whining for an EXTRA reward for things you are doing anyway. The daily bonus is just that...bonus exp, you don't have to do it to rank up...you rank up and earn exp toward it no matter what you do so the whining is really overblown.

 

It isn't a perfect system, but it is also just an aside...in addition to...what you are already earning.

 

So if your place of employment decided that instead of a Christmas bonus they were handing out raffle tickets and the big prize was money that you would have previously received, that's cool because it's just an aside?

[Jadescythe]

I was pointing out one of my traditional headaches in regards gear, and pointing out it's an issue I will personally not have to deal with anymore apparently. From what I'm reading and looking at, which is incredibly limited right now, gear will come to those who DO these activities and at the rate of difficulty they DO them. AND that gear will be divvied out according to Advanced Class, so I won't be getting tank-gear for my healer.

 

RNG is always a "w"itch. I've literally gone months without getting a piece of gear from the Operations I was running around back in the days of DF and DP goodness, mind you. I respect people complaining at being at the mercy of the RNG gods all over again. But it's not something I am really going to join in, either.

 

I think this brings a huge misconception into the equation. The RNG you are complaining about is CONTROLLABLE RNG. You know the third boss is going to drop gloves that anyone in the group can potentially use in today's world. If you joined a random group and they randomly roll on everything, then RNG is a major factor. If you go in with a controlled group, then you know that eventually it will be your turn to win those gloves. Even in a random group, you could find ways to have a better chance at the gloves based on agreement amongst the group, but now you will literally have to pray every time you hit a level that you get something helpful.

 

With the new system, controlled groups could have everyone come out of an operation getting gear meant for a spec they don't even play in a slot they already have. I'd personally prefer that SOMEONE got what they needed out of the run (5 someones in most cases) than no one.

[Shwarzchild]

RNG is not inherently bad. Yet you would think from this new crop of MMOers (read most of this forum) they cannot handle the idea they might actually have to runt he content 4-5 times to get a single drop...THAT is raiding! If you get gear every single time you run, you aren't raiding...you are beating a loot piniata.

...and people wonder why raiding is dying, a little RNG has you scared and running.

 

So what if the box doesn't give you exactly what you want every time? Yeah I've had absolute horrible luck with those alliance crates but they are an additional reward for doing content I love. If you run whatever you enjoy doing (heroics, FPs, PvP, OPs, etc) you will earn credit toward that rank and earn those commander crates alongside whatever you earn doing whatever you do. In other words...a whole lot of crying and whining for an EXTRA reward for things you are doing anyway. The daily bonus is just that...bonus exp, you don't have to do it to rank up...you rank up and earn exp toward it no matter what you do so the whining is really overblown.

 

It isn't a perfect system, but it is also just an aside...in addition to...what you are already earning.

 

This is incorrect. Raiding is not about collecting gear.

[Icykill_]

And you're surprised!!! Just name 2 things that haven't caused a major Rage Rant Panic . . . just 2:rolleyes:

 

But I'll come clean, I hate changes, I hate to re learn everything after these changes, but I also understand that it's human nature to do so. we all want things to stay as we know them to be, but the only certainty in life and gaming is that they won't, not ever . . .

 

I'm with you, I'm reluctant to change normally.. but it happens and you move on... but usually they don't make such huge sweeping changes that effect the whole game at once... especially things that have proven to be issues in the past and they changed them for the better... why oh why would they bring something back that was hated and an epic failure before... someone must have found an old memo in a bin and stuck it on the board for a joke

[TUXs]

I like the new system.

What do you like? The RNG aspect of it? That fact that it's PER toon? The fact that you're never guaranteed that ONE thing you need? The gear consolidation? What is it that you like so much?

 

I want EVERYONE to have a shot at the best PvP/PvE gear...I'm not an elitist in the slightest...but I also want to make sure I also get the things I DO want, like the 6-piece set etc. I want to make sure I can bring one of my many alts without gimping myself...with this being PER toon, that won't be the case...we'll need to re-level every toon we intend to play...that is NOT good. Those folk who swapped to heal or tank to finish out your group, they'll now be less likely than ever to swap because they want gear for the toon they want to use, not wastefully grind the new XP on a toon they don't want it on.

 

So what's is it you specifically like? Because I see nothing but damage...

[Rolodome]

Windmill sighting.

 

Yes.. we should collectively express what we do not like AND what we do like. But to expect it to result in changes in their path to release is unrealistic. Past performance on PTS should be ample proof of this for you.

 

You may continue your assault on that Windmill.

Expecting may be unrealistic, but the possibility of changes is not.

 

I mean, do you really think they just had the stash waiting in the wings and released it after DvL came out to annoy people? Or that they got how messy their FUBAR BoP thing was and realized that they could justify making the stash by using CM budget.

[IanArgent]

Expecting may be unrealistic, but the possibility of changes is not.

 

I mean, do you really think they just had the stash waiting in the wings and released it after DvL came out to annoy people? Or that they got how messy their FUBAR BoP thing was and realized that they could justify making the stash by using CM budget.

 

I suspect they moved forward release from a feature that was slated for 5.0

[Icykill_]

Windmill sighting.

 

Yes.. we should collectively express what we do not like AND what we do like. But to expect it to result in changes in their path to release is unrealistic. Past performance on PTS should be ample proof of this for you.

 

You may continue your assault on that Windmill.

 

Never fear, I've got a pretty good chest that helps me blow lots of hot air... I'm going to break that windmill one day

 

That's the issue with the PTS, they never advertise they are putting it up or that they need testers.. myself and so many others since launch have suggested that they advertise pts testing on the login screen when they put it live... we've even had Bio employees agree with us and say that they will look at doing that in the future... 3-4 years later and we are still waiting....

The only time I've seen them advertise it was when pvpers got wind of a major change being made in 3.0 to do with capping in void star... we petitioned over and over for them to organise real testing with the pvp community... they agreed... we tested with Eric and co and we convinced them to change it back only weeks before 3.0 was release as we proved it was detrimental to the game..

That is the sort of testing that is needed.. maybe not a free for all during a massive Expac, but certainly a large amount of players who are willing to sign NDAs and test the game properly and it should be months before release.

[Icykill_]

Agreed. I don't care about the lack of PvP vs PvE gear, it's just the whole RNG thing that has me very disgusted. We've already tried that here...and it FLOPPED! IT FAILED! IT SUCKED! We've had RNG gear before...why the hell bring back something so universally disliked??? It blows my mind...what the hell?! Get rid of the RNG and I'll support nearly any alternative...but RNG gear is freaking TERRIBLE!!!!!!

 

Agreed... nearly everyone can see this except Bioware... it's like they've got all new people there who have never looked at the history of their own game.

[BobTheTeepo]

Guys, quit with the fallacious reasoning. Just because, in the past, one form of RNG gearing didn't work does not mean it will not work this time (in fact, it doesn't even supply evidence that it won't, that's improper use of inductive reasoning). It depends on how they tune it, ultimately. You guys have no idea how unforgiving the RNG will be, maybe realistically it'll only take a few hours of grind to get all of your gear. You don't know. Stop acting like it's definitely going to be terrible when you haven't even given the system a shot. Saying you're worried about it is fine, acting like it's actually going to be terrible is just acting without thinking plain and simple. No need to make assumptions, no need to jump to conclusions.

[peter_plankskull]

Guys, quit with the fallacious reasoning. Just because, in the past, one form of RNG gearing didn't work does not mean it will not work this time (in fact, it doesn't even supply evidence that it won't, that's improper use of inductive reasoning). It depends on how they tune it, ultimately. You guys have no idea how unforgiving the RNG will be, maybe realistically it'll only take a few hours of grind to get all of your gear. You don't know. Stop acting like it's definitely going to be terrible when you haven't even given the system a shot. Saying you're worried about it is fine, acting like it's actually going to be terrible is just acting without thinking plain and simple. No need to make assumptions, no need to jump to conclusions.

 

According to another poster it's going to take...a uh... very... VERY... VERY long time to grind to max.

[Jadescythe]

Guys, quit with the fallacious reasoning. Just because, in the past, one form of RNG gearing didn't work does not mean it will not work this time (in fact, it doesn't even supply evidence that it won't, that's improper use of inductive reasoning). It depends on how they tune it, ultimately. You guys have no idea how unforgiving the RNG will be, maybe realistically it'll only take a few hours of grind to get all of your gear. You don't know. Stop acting like it's definitely going to be terrible when you haven't even given the system a shot. Saying you're worried about it is fine, acting like it's actually going to be terrible is just acting without thinking plain and simple. No need to make assumptions, no need to jump to conclusions.

 

Because it makes no sense. If the RNG is most likely to gear you up in a few hours, then why not just give out the gear without RNG? RNG only stands to POTENTIALLY make it take an infinite amount of time and cause frustration for players.

[TUXs]

Guys, quit with the fallacious reasoning. Just because, in the past, one form of RNG gearing didn't work does not mean it will not work this time .

Why is that? Why would RNG gear, in a gear based MMO, be better the second time it was implemented?

 

The funny thing is, the ONLY people I see defending it, are the same 6 people that defend ANYTHING!

 

I'm 1000% fine with dropping Expertise. I HATE carrying 2 sets of freaking gear all the time. But RNG has ALREADY FAILED IN THIS GAME! It has already proven to be a HORRIFIC idea. There is NOTHING good from RNG gear...NOTHING!

[bncsmom]

People said essentially the same thing about level sync, yet after actually playing it.. even many of the very negative players about level sync actually turned around on that.

 

Nope. SOME of the negative players turned around on that. Not many. I see many more who were favorable to it turning around and saying they hate it.

[CorellianWannabe]

Guys, quit with the fallacious reasoning. Just because, in the past, one form of RNG gearing didn't work does not mean it will not work this time (in fact, it doesn't even supply evidence that it won't, that's improper use of inductive reasoning). It depends on how they tune it, ultimately. You guys have no idea how unforgiving the RNG will be, maybe realistically it'll only take a few hours of grind to get all of your gear. You don't know. Stop acting like it's definitely going to be terrible when you haven't even given the system a shot. Saying you're worried about it is fine, acting like it's actually going to be terrible is just acting without thinking plain and simple. No need to make assumptions, no need to jump to conclusions.

 

If it would only take a few hours, what is the benefit over guaranteed loot?

 

A lottery with a 99% chance of winning is still not better than a cash payment that is 100% guarantee. How is that reasoning fallacious?