PvP and PvE Gearing in Eternal Throne

[midianlord]

K, here's something a little less jaded, specifically regarding set-boni and gear tiers:

 

If I'm grinding for, let's say, my Eliminator (DPS Merc/Mando set-bonus) full set, and by the grace of RNGesus, I get three different pieces but also of three different i-rating tiers, then will those set-pieces stack with each other?

 

IE, will I have 3/6 Eliminator set just with mixed ilvl, or will I have 1/6 of three different Eliminator sets, and have to do more grind-n-pray?

 

Or, will I end up with like a dozen belts, all different, most of which are of no use to my chosen class/spec? (I'm sure there's some vets here who remember how much fun it was trying to BiS-up for PvP in the grab-bag days early on.)

[Exocor]

What about giving us a choice, what to pick from a crate? E.g., offer us some options per crate. A boot-crate: 2 possible options - tank/heal or dps. Or even let tokens drop from crates, that we can trade with the vendors. A major problem, I see, is, that you are a merc heal and a crate drops an accuracy earpiece for example. Another problem, I see, is, that there is an "end" of gearing with the max commando rank. Me, for example, I play my merc in both, dps and heal role. Will I be able to equip my character for both roles?

Another question: Is the gear still moddable, so you can trade it per legacy? Or do we have to equip every toon, even the same classes, on their own?

What about crafting? Will we be able to craft the highest rated gear?

What about crafting materials? Will they be converted? E.g. Raid guilds have massive amounts of Dark Matter Catalysts and Exotic Isotop Stabilisators on their guild storages.

What about farm raids, not clearing the whole op? Pre 4.0, and even 4.0, for example, we did "farm raids", killed the first 4 bosses in tos, the first 3 in ravagers, or, pre 3.0, the first bosses in nim dread palace and dread fortress, to earn the best gear.

 

I suggest, to delete the max command rank, or rise it to an unaccesible level, so that we can progress in it and loot as much as we need. You even can implement a highscore on the website: Highest command rank of each server.

I also suggest the option, to choose, which piece, for which role - dps, tank or heal - you get.

And, additionally I suggest, if it is not like that, that each boss, each encounter, espacially in NiM-Operations, will give commandpoints, without clearing the operation completely.

 

 

In my opinion, that way is not bad at all. Even the deleting of Expertise is a good change. And, additionally to that, they must make the best gear accessible without doing nim-ops.

[DarthBatemanJ]

Fair point, but that isn't too dissimilar to how it works now. If you are someone who loves Operations, as an example. You may start in Story Operations to get your Command Rank up and gear up until your character is ready to move into Master (Nightmare).

 

In general the rule for CXP is that the more players that participate in content, and the harder that content is, the faster you earn it. Although it isn't as fast a Master Operation, doing a Story Operation is still worth more CXP then doing Heroics would be.

 

-eric

 

1. Will bolster still be available for Story mode Ops and HM Flashpoints?

 

2. Are there any changes to the level sync coming?

 

3. What will the daily group finder rewards change to from Crystals?

Edited October 18, 2016 by DarthBatemanJ

[Vhaegrant]

Sounds like a good time to just take the gear out of PvP and put everyone on the same footing through bolster.

 

Honestly still don't understand why all the l33t PvP players want a stat boost over those venturing into warzones on an irregular basis.

[Deewe]

While I'm also worried about some of these changes, here's a couple of highlight:

 

1) Gearing has always been an issue for most non hardcore PvP players, the new system might mitigate that.

 

2) Supposedly PvP is about skill and PvE suck at it. Well guess soon we're going to find out how much hardcore PvE players are bad in PvP.

 

3) It will be the end of OPs... maybe for stats but looks like OP bosses will still drop gear, and mounts we might not be able to get anywhere else. Hence the incentive.

 

4) Getting gear while leveling was too much restricted on doing specific quests providing tokens. Now you'll be able to buy gear with credits.

 

5) Finally look like everybody's forgetting valor. Might be wrong though guess a valor 1 maxed PvE player won't be as efficient as a dedicated valor (50?) PvP player.

 

So in the end we still need much more details.

[TUXs]

The idea that you could raid every operation, every week...

 

Do PvP, Uprisings etc.....

 

And have bad RNG never let you get a 6 piece bonus....

 

Is inexplicable.

 

How can this be a viable endgame gearing method? How does this make sense?

 

It doesn't. Like so many other things, it is a system that has not been thought out. NOBODY was asking for this...NOBODY!!!

[Deewe]

Honestly still don't understand why all the l33t PvP players want a stat boost over those venturing into warzones on an irregular basis.

Because they won't be able anymore to faceroll others "less dedicated" players.

[DragonDai]

So I am NOT a new player. I played at launch, pre-ordered the game, etc. I played a bunch at launch, but quit a few months after because **** got boring quick. Not enough new content and...THE RNG LOOT WAS INFURIATING!

 

I LITERALLY just started playing again 4 days ago. No joke. I was like "Man, I wonder what SWTOR is up to?" I came back started working on some new characters for the DvL event, I'm having a GREAT time. So about 24 hours ago I decided to subscribe for 6 months.

 

Yeah...I'm REALLY glad that I was still on my 7 free Subscribe days (from Refer a Friend) and was able to change that to a single month at a time sub, because if these changes go through as written here, I'll be unsubbing and never playing again after I get through the new story content.

 

To put it simply: RNG loot is awful. There is literally no good reason to have RNG loot at end game. Further, the current system says "F2P/Prefered players go home!" That will kill server population.

 

These two things combined = some of the worst design decisions I've ever seen any MMO dev ever make ever. ESPECIALLY since one of them (the RNG loot thing) has already been tried in this very video game and was a complete disaster.

 

So how do you fix it? Well, first off, you make some way for F2P/Prefered players to get back in on the action. Passes work now, I'm SURE that the "brilliant" minds on the dev team can think of SOME way to make them work with the new system. Maybe a week long pass that allows you to collect CEXP at a slightly reduced rate or something. But if F2P/Prefered players get LITERALLY no gear for playing end game content, they just won't play end game content. Period. And that's gana kill the game all by itself.

 

As for the RNG, you just get rid of it. You make the boxes have Bind of Legacy tokens that trade for a type of item, usable by any character. So I take the bracer token on my Jedi Guardian with Focus Discipline and I get a set of heavy armor bracers themed for melee DPS or I take that same token on my Sith Sorcerer with Corruption Discipline and get a set of light armor bracers themed for healing.

 

Hopefully the devs will rethink this system. It's awful in a lot of ways, not just the ones I've mentioned above, but those are the big two. And if it's not fixed, well, I have a feeling I'll be back out just as fast as I got back in. Which is really unfortunate.

[TUXs]

Sounds like a good time to just take the gear out of PvP and put everyone on the same footing through bolster.

 

Honestly still don't understand why all the l33t PvP players want a stat boost over those venturing into warzones on an irregular basis.

That part of this change is fine - RNG is not.

[Vhaegrant]

That part of this change is fine - RNG is not.

I'm not disagreeing, it may well be fine, but it would have been nice to see that artificial divide removed completely.

 

Honestly the way games are going I'd advocate removing stats all together and just set fixed difficulty for areas.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Vhaegrant

[Jadescythe]

I have a few objective concerns. I have many subjective concerns, but I'll wait to see more before forming an opinion.

 

- Stat distribution: PvP and PvE fundamentally desire different stat allocations. What is the plan to allow players to customize their character to meet the needs of their content? With drops being totally random, it could take months to min/max as you are looking for a particular mod or enhancement in a piece to move over with no way to know what you will get. It may also mean that the ideal stats no longer exist depending on what gear you have available in the new system or, alternatively, that players may get totally worthless gear with too much Endurance if they don't PvP.

 

- Will bolster still come into play in PvP or PvE instances? Bolster was great for getting newer players into story mode operations and regular level 65 warzones. Without this, we could potentially see even more lopsided warzones and even fewer raid participants.

 

- Ops progression: Will basically be eliminated. Since you no longer need to complete story mode to progress to hard mode, it removes quite a bit of content from end game raiders. I realize having a story mode is great for the more casual raiders, but it did extend the time that a new operation was relevant when you needed to get gear from it to progress through hard mode.

[WheresMyWhisky]

Fair point, but that isn't too dissimilar to how it works now. If you are someone who loves Operations, as an example. You may start in Story Operations to get your Command Rank up and gear up until your character is ready to move into Master (Nightmare).

-eric

 

Lol you crack me up Eric no one that loves doing ops does story mode they were always easy but after being nerfed into oblivion in 4.0 its more fun to go to the dentist than run a SM operation.

 

Anyway have to agree with many posters the new gearing system is a terrible idea. I don't want to grind parts of the game I don't like e.g. Story (as its been rubbish post 50) just so I can do what I like which is run operations and occasionally pvp. For HM and Nim ops gear drops should remain on the bosses as it will be a real grind to earn those now for the majority of the player base given that you have successfully driven so many raiders from the game. If you then want the FP and Story mode players to be able to earn the same gear in GC then fill yer boots. The RNG of all of this will just drive more raiders from the game and PVPers who were here in 1.0 must be having flashbacks to the RNG loot boxes you had back then which you got rid of because like this they were a terrible idea.

 

Due to the RNG and the time all of this will take how do I switch role for my Raid team if required? As its unlikely I will have managed to grind GC for sets of gear for my alts.

 

This is also terrible for preferred players who have bought artifact gear tokens and raid using ops passes.

 

Honestly if you want to totally kill off the raiding and pvp communities GG because you might just have succeeded

Edited October 18, 2016 by WheresMyWhisky

[Deewe]

That part of this change is fine - RNG is not.

Well what people tend to forget is RNG is very much present in the game right now. Any boss loot, even in top end OP is tied to RNG.

 

The main difference however is before a raid leader was able to distribute the loot based on class/specs and dedication to the guild. Right now when you have a 16 man OP you certainly don't get 16 drops. So the issue is with PUGS the majority of players get quite nothing out of an OPS.

 

The new system is made to reward all players for participating.

 

Now what I'm indeed worried about is getting the same pieces of gear again and again and not being able to transfer them to others characters, be it for the look or even the stats.

[mydocs]

I am trying to find something positive in 5.0, and i found it:

 

This is a good test, that will show if BW is really listening to their playerbase or not. Nobody demands or want those RNG Loot Bags, eh Crates.

They've planned to implement them, but the playerbase goes "torches and pitchforks". Will BW paddle back, and acknowledge it was a bad idea that needs to be reworked?

Only next Yellow-Text or time will tell.

[Quraswren]

Well what people tend to forget is RNG is very much present in the game right now. Any boss loot, even in top end OP is tied to RNG.

 

Not the set pieces. Nothing random about that.

 

The main difference however is before a raid leader was able to distribute the loot based on class/specs and dedication to the guild. Right now when you have a 16 man OP you certainly don't get 16 drops. So the issue is with PUGS the majority of players get quite nothing out of an OPS.

 

You mean, you don't get 16 set pieces. You do however get more than 16 pieces of gear. And while that is random, I can give it to the ones that actually need it and not just random it out as vender loot. There are gamers that actually need that gear.

 

With OPS no longer dropping any gear. They get nothing and they have another chance to get nothing from the crate they actually get. Thats some fairly uninteresting game play. 5 years of running FP and OPS and getting gear in some way and now thats turned to more chances at nothing at all.

 

Thats some screwed up game design right there at this point in the game.

 

The new system is made to reward all players for participating.

 

That could still be done without the random gear drops.

 

Now what I'm indeed worried about is getting the same pieces of gear again and again and not being able to transfer them to others characters, be it for the look or even the stats.

 

Same here. The random gear drops will be designed similar to cartel crates and some things will be harder to get than others. Expect to be disappointed for long lengths of time. It's not designed in your favor.

[TUXs]

I'm not disagreeing, it may well be fine, but it would have been nice to see that artificial divide removed completely.

 

Honestly the way games are going I'd advocate removing stats all together and just set fixed difficulty for areas.

Ah, sorry...I think I misread what you had meant Your fear now is that PvEers will have the best gear for PvP...it would have been better to just have Bolster kick in for everyone, bypassing gear altogether.

[TUXs]

Well what people tend to forget is RNG is very much present in the game right now. Any boss loot, even in top end OP is tied to RNG.

 

The main difference however is before a raid leader was able to distribute the loot based on class/specs and dedication to the guild. Right now when you have a 16 man OP you certainly don't get 16 drops. So the issue is with PUGS the majority of players get quite nothing out of an OPS.

 

The new system is made to reward all players for participating.

 

Now what I'm indeed worried about is getting the same pieces of gear again and again and not being able to transfer them to others characters, be it for the look or even the stats.

Not quite the same - that RNG is for bonus loots, not the token pieces, which remove ALL RNG from the equation.

[IanArgent]

Not quite the same - that RNG is for bonus loots, not the token pieces, which remove ALL RNG from the equation.

 

For pugs, the tokens are effectively RNG. Just another issue that guilded raiders don't see.

[Jadescythe]

For pugs, the tokens are effectively RNG. Just another issue that guilded raiders don't see.

 

It's RNG if you get one, but what you get with the token is not RNG. I think that's the point.

[TUXs]

For pugs, the tokens are effectively RNG. Just another issue that guilded raiders don't see.

Ian, I PuG a LOT! I may not get what I need the 1st time, but I know where to go for the gear I need, and eventually I'll get it...and right now, even if my Commando can't use that Bracer, my Sage can. So even crappy luck with tokens STILL has a positive side.

[Vhaegrant]

Ah, sorry...I think I misread what you had meant Your fear now is that PvEers will have the best gear for PvP...it would have been better to just have Bolster kick in for everyone, bypassing gear altogether.

 

I didn't really have any fear at all as I don't participate in end game content

 

I've never understood why stats on gear is such a big thing for PvP. I've always thought the skill gradient for PvP is knowing the characters abilities and how to counter those of others rather than if one side has better gear than the other.

 

I'm struggling to work up any enthusiasm for 5.0. Most of the new features seem to be another way of doing what was already being done. Seriously, if you couldn't figure out which vendor to go to on fleet to get your gear I'm not sure you should be in possession of a PC for gaming

[UmbralSpirit]

Just wait the next thing they are going to add will be Gambling Packs for real money with ridiculously low drop rates on the shiny's....oh...wait a second.....

[DarthDymond]

It's RNG if you get one, but what you get with the token is not RNG. I think that's the point.

 

But that's a distinction without a difference.

 

Either you have a setup where you potentially get something useless (RNG) or a setup where you potentially don't get anything at all (token drops). In that regard the disintegrate option actually is a bit better as it gets you towards a "re-roll" of sorts.

 

But the removal of Comms / Crystals takes out the aspect that let you progress towards getting something for the run regardless of how the RNG Gods were treating you that day.

[TUXs]

I've never understood why stats on gear is such a big thing for PvP. I've always thought the skill gradient for PvP is knowing the characters abilities and how to counter those of others rather than if one side has better gear than the other.

It should be, and largely it is about skill...but sadly, stats do have an impact...and Expertise > all else.

[foldyjedi]

I did not believe that I would see this day, when Bioware announces the implementation of cartel market rng system in the gear progression for pvp. Seriously, what are you guys smoking? I want that stuff too!

Why the hell is it a good idea to make pvp gearing or gearing in general to be based on rng? This is the same situation as pvp bags at launch.... I can already see it. I play dps classes and when I will force myself to grind few ranks, I will be given boxes and when I open them, I will receive tank stuff. Who cares that you can turn the crap into gc points and advance the rank further? Jesus christ do you even think about the creative decisions in this game?

 

Like i said before, this kind of gearing method is common in other mmos.