Gearing Changes in Eternal Throne

[LordTurin]

I had gotten the impression that the necessity for set bonus varied between classes, ACs, and roles. In my limited experience with set bonus via PvP armor that had been confirmed. If so, then I'd hope they address this with class changes in 5.0 (just as they did somewhat in 4.0 - one thing I recall specifically was moving the minimum range for saber throw from the set bonus only for guardians).

 

At any rate, there are currently 9 potential "set bonus" gear slots in the game, and you only need to fill 6 of them to get max "set bonus."

 

Worst case, you have 5 "set bonus" items, and need one more to complete a set. If my memories of prob&stat are correct, and only the MH/OH/Armor is relevant (you can craft the mods/enahncements you need, or buy one from a crafter), it doesn't matter whether you have or need armor vs mh vs oh - the odds of you drawing a slot item you can use to complete the set are the same. (If you have 5x armor, then you can use one of the other two armor slots, or the mh, or the oh).

 

If the odds are even of drawing any particular slot from the 9 set-bonus slotted items - 5/9 of the time you draw and discard, 4/9 of the time you draw and keep to complete your set.

 

I think I'm going to have to break out a spreadsheet to do the odds fully, but the odds aren't as bad as I thought. They're not great; I would still ike to see a more definite system of obtaining gear, but they're not impossible.

 

There are actually only 7 set bonus slots, so if you have 5, your chance of getting the next one oyu need is 1 in 7 (2 out of 14).

[Darkbloom]

There are actually only 7 set bonus slots, so if you have 5, your chance of getting the next one oyu need is 1 in 7 (2 out of 14).

 

But that actually brings up another possible solution: have more pieces that can contribute to the set bonus.

[IanArgent]

There are actually only 7 set bonus slots, so if you have 5, your chance of getting the next one oyu need is 1 in 7 (2 out of 14).

 

I had (mis) understood mainhand and offhand to grant set bonuses. My error, and it changes the odds significantly.

 

Thanks for your correction.

[Morrolan]

It's definitely smart that they made craftable gear usable to fill in for gear that you don't get from RNG.

 

But, this doesn't fix what I call the "anger" problem. If you have a really dedicated pvper or raider, and over and over again they just can't get that last piece of gear they need to fill out their last set bonus, they are going to be very angry. And they will be angry whether or not the set bonus is absolutely necessary.

 

It also depends on the cost of the craftable gear. If its at current costs then its way too expensive for more casual players and players who just pvp.

[Silko]

[*]Yup, the drops will be random. The item type is determined by your Advanced Class and the item rating is determined by your Command Rank (higher rank = higher item rating). Keep in mind that you can always earn more Crates and that you can disintegrate any duplicate or unwanted items into CXP to get your next Crate faster.

[*]Yes. All end-game gear (level 70+) can be earned by doing almost any activity. However, someone doing Nightmare (Master) level Operations, as an example, will get there substantially faster than someone doing easy/solo content.

 

Will there be a way to filter out the type of gear (Healer DPS or Tank) we will recieve from the crates if our advance class is able to do both. Tanks can get hosed the most in this type of system as they can ONLY use tank gear while healers and DPS can share Crit/Alc mods and relics.

[IanArgent]

It also depends on the cost of the craftable gear. If its at current costs then its way too expensive for more casual players and players who just pvp.

 

That's a supply and demand issue - cost is high, because there's low supply, because there's basically no demand (because you can get it "for free" by running ops).

[Savej]

Awhile ago I remember BW saying that there will be much to like about the xpac and that there will be one thing in particular that will be good for the game that some people might not like. When I read that I was having flashbacks to certain other major design decisions that I didn't/don't agree with. Suffice to say I was very very concerned. Removing expertise? Crafting end-game usable gear? These are things I've wanted since day 1 of this game, my concerns are now gone (lottery boxes don't bother me) and I am looking forward to KOTET. Thanks.

 

I have a question though that wasn't specifically touched upon but is nagging - are we still going to be able to have legacy sets of the best gear (with set bonuses) that we can transfer between characters?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Savej

[IanArgent]

But that actually brings up another possible solution: have more pieces that can contribute to the set bonus.

 

Easier to allow the armor plate to be transferred to a different slot

[YungDemon]

Will there be a way to filter out the type of gear (Healer DPS or Tank) we will recieve from the crates if our advance class is able to do both. Tanks can get hosed the most in this type of system as they can ONLY use tank gear while healers and DPS can share Crit/Alc mods and relics.

 

This.

[Tsetso]

That's a supply and demand issue - cost is high, because there's low supply, because there's basically no demand (because you can get it "for free" by running ops).

 

Unless they change the mats the supply will be even lower. If we have to craft our gear no DMCs will be sold on GTN untill the last raid member is (semi)geared

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

They said in the livestream that raiders will get CXP faster than other types of content. So you're still getting the best gear at a good rate, it's just others can get it too without stepping into a raid (albeit slower).

 

How much slower or faster, I don't think has been specified.

 

Thing is tho, and this is the point of contention, that raiders might get the gear faster doesn't change the fact that the best gear in the game shouldn't be obtainable just by doing story, heroics, flashpoints. I think it is fair to say, that it is long standing precident that the best gear is obtainable only by doing the most hard content in the game [HM, NiM]. People who aren't doing that level of content don't need the bis gear anyways. This is going to kill the raiding community, who quite honestly [and I agree], don't feel that it is right that people who don't step foot in an Operation should have the best gear in the game. I don't feel that is Elitest, it's called progression raiding for a reason. It takes time, it takes trial and error, it comes with the expenses involved in having to repair your gear a lot of the time, it takes skill and it takes effort.

 

You work more hours, you get more pay. If you don't put in the time and effort, you don't deserve the same recompense as someone who did.

 

The differences don't even need to be that major, but there has to be something to show for the added effort. It's like making one person pay 50 million to buy a guildship,but than only charging someone else 5 million for a guildship. It simply isn't fair.

 

The raiding community will suffer for this, less people will be raiding because it simply isn't necessary. It may take a little longer to get the best gear doing it outside of Operations, but lets face it, people will be playing anyways whether it takes a week or a month, it is purely an academic difference. Less people raiding, less reason for BW to invest in new operations. No new operations, the small microbe of raiders that will remain will only feel all the more undervalued, there is literally no reason to stay under these circumstances. Raiders will become extinct in this game within a year, if that long. Raiders want to raid, not do heroics for gear. Taking gear out of raids absolutely kills the sport value of raiding. it changes the very essence of raiding so that it becomes impossible now to play the sport you love. It's like taking goal posts out of soccer. Raiding can never be the same now.

 

The definition of the word raid - "to quickly and illicitly take something from (a place" . There will be nothing to take anymore. You will not be able to raid anymore in SWTOR. Raiding is dead, killed by BW's own hand.

 

Terrible, absolutely terrible to do that to the remaining raiders in this game.

[Gwena]

I will reserve full judgement for when we have all the details, but so far I think that this could be appealing to me. I don't do Ops at all anymore, so I kinda like the idea of being able to improve my favorite characters via command rank. It is hard to tell though without more info.

 

Some questions/concerns:

 

1. Does the interface for opening command crates work like the CM item stash? Just for cosmetic items, maybe? For example, if the hypothetical rare pet "Adorable Kath Pup" drops from a crate on my character Kickspuppies, can I claim it on my other character, Lovespuppies?

 

2. For gear drops, will we get to choose based on spec? For example, when receiving mission rewards for the Ziost story, I could choose between healer and DPS pieces whenever the reward was gear.

 

3. What will happen to our current crystals and commendations? If they're converted, what will the rate be?

 

4. What will happen to the items -- aside from mods, which have been addressed -- that are sold for crystals or coms? I would hate to see the awesome low/mid level weapons on the PvP vendors become unavailable!

 

5. Will command crates also drop the materials needed to craft endgame gear? If so, this could be a good way to gear up alts.

 

6. Is the gear from command crates static, or mod-able?

 

Thanks for reading! I hope to see the answers to these questions in the foreseeable future.

[SerraShar]

More random stuff ?

 

Can you at least introduce a new npc that buy them at a fair price ? So when I open 10 crates I can sell those 10 gloves that I already have...

 

I aint krishna . But this RNG is giving me nothing but gloves and boots and belt . Pffff

[IanArgent]

It took quite a lot of posts before I saw someone assert that the best gear in the game should be limited to the people who can clear the content without the best gear in the game. I was almost beginning to miss that argument.

 

That's what the "BiS gear shoudl be limited to NiM raiders" boils down to.

[IanArgent]

More random stuff ?

 

Can you at least introduce a new npc that buy them at a fair price ? So when I open 10 crates I can sell those 10 gloves that I already have...

 

I aint krishna . But this RNG is giving me nothing but gloves and boots and belt . Pffff

 

You can "disintegrate" them for GXP, which gets you another crate. What the "exchange rate" is like is provocatively left unspecified

[HaoZhao]

Is there a max command rank? What about people who want to re-spec to a different role? If there is a max rank, how would you grind gear for the other role?

 

I'll give the new system a chance, but I'm really cynical about removing PVP gear. The current system works just fine. PVP to get PVP gear and do PVE to get PVE gear. We're going to end up in a situation where people who run operations are better geared for ranked PVP than people who focus on warzones.

[amacinside]

Really Musco?

 

At least merge all the weekly passes into one pass and call it the galactic command pass or something?

 

¨galactic command pass¨ is called subscription.

[Tsetso]

¨galactic command pass¨ is called subscription.

 

They should at least reimburse the player that bought that unusable junk.

[IanArgent]

Is there a max command rank? What about people who want to re-spec to a different role? If there is a max rank, how would you grind gear for the other role?

 

I'll give the new system a chance, but I'm really cynical about removing PVP gear. The current system works just fine. PVP to get PVP gear and do PVE to get PVE gear. We're going to end up in a situation where people who run operations are better geared for ranked PVP than people who focus on warzones.

 

Once you hit max rank, you still can "level," it just won't increase your rank. I've seen similar advancement systems in other games

[Soul_of_Flames]

Another possible suggestion that I just thought of:

 

What about tying the command rank to your class role?

 

If you're a multi-role class, select DPS and begin ranking up as a DPS and earning DPS gear. Or, respec as a tank and begin ranking up as a tank and earning tank gear.

 

The ranks won't overwrite each other, so you can progress them both on their own time. You could technically use this to see how long a player has been using that character for a specific role (assuming command ranking is visible to other players.)

Edited October 18, 2016 by Soul_of_Flames

[Rolodome]

Thing is tho, and this is the point of contention, that raiders might get the gear faster doesn't change the fact that the best gear in the game shouldn't be obtainable just by doing story, heroics, flashpoints. I think it is fair to say, that it is long standing precident that the best gear is obtainable only by doing the most hard content in the game [HM, NiM]. People who aren't doing that level of content don't need the bis gear anyways. This is going to kill the raiding community, who quite honestly [and I agree], don't feel that it is right that people who don't step foot in an Operation should have the best gear in the game. I don't feel that is Elitest, it's called progression raiding for a reason. It takes time, it takes trial and error, it comes with the expenses involved in having to repair your gear a lot of the time, it takes skill and it takes effort.

 

You work more hours, you get more pay. If you don't put in the time and effort, you don't deserve the same recompense as someone who did.

 

The differences don't even need to be that major, but there has to be something to show for the added effort. It's like making one person pay 50 million to buy a guildship,but than only charging someone else 5 million for a guildship. It simply isn't fair.

 

The raiding community will suffer for this, less people will be raiding because it simply isn't necessary. It may take a little longer to get the best gear doing it outside of Operations, but lets face it, people will be playing anyways whether it takes a week or a month, it is purely an academic difference. Less people raiding, less reason for BW to invest in new operations. No new operations, the small microbe of raiders that will remain will only feel all the more undervalued, there is literally no reason to stay under these circumstances. Raiders will become extinct in this game within a year, if that long. Raiders want to raid, not do heroics for gear. Taking gear out of raids absolutely kills the sport value of raiding. it changes the very essence of raiding so that it becomes impossible now to play the sport you love. It's like taking goal posts out of soccer. Raiding can never be the same now.

 

The definition of the word raid - "to quickly and illicitly take something from (a place" . There will be nothing to take anymore. You will not be able to raid anymore in SWTOR. Raiding is dead, killed by BW's own hand.

 

Terrible, absolutely terrible to do that to the remaining raiders in this game.

I don't know what to say. Personally, I couldn't care less whether my gear is 208 or 220, given the content I do (I've yet to step inside an op).

 

And honestly, I don't know that getting to 220 on every max level character is going to be a motivating goal for me at all. If there's other stuff in the crates as well, that might motivate me. If there's other rewards tied to GC, that might motivate me. Getting a few extra gear points is, for me, largely going to be a don't care situation.

 

So I guess I don't have much to say because with the way I play the game, I couldn't care less whether I get the best gear in the game or not. And I have to admit that in thinking about the discussion and the changes, I'm wondering... are there people who really really wanted ops level gear without doing ops?

 

I do think there's some potential for good, in that if somebody gets high-end gear first and then later decides to try ops, they'll be more of an asset to those who do them regularly, without needing to get carried into proper gear state first. So there's that. The most eyebrow-raising part seems to be the RNG. No one is really sure how that's going to pan out, other than the knowledge that RNG-heavy systems usually make a lot of people angry.

[ZeroTypeR]

I'll sub for a month and see how the 5.0 update goes (when it comes out), if I don't like it, then back to preferred I'm going. Edited October 18, 2016 by ZeroTypeR

[IanArgent]

I'm a little wary/curious of what the non-max-level gear in command crates will look like, and how rapidly you make it to max level. 100 levels of Command rank has been bandied about. do the lower level crates contain set-bonus gear? What's the stat spread from Level 1 to level 100? How many separate "levels" of gear are tehre? (I'm presuming there' snot 100 separate elvels. ARe there 10? 5, 2?)

[Tsetso]

I'm a little wary/curious of what the non-max-level gear in command crates will look like, and how rapidly you make it to max level. 100 levels of Command rank has been bandied about. do the lower level crates contain set-bonus gear? What's the stat spread from Level 1 to level 100? How many separate "levels" of gear are tehre? (I'm presuming there' snot 100 separate elvels. ARe there 10? 5, 2?)

 

To level to rank 100 you need approximately 60k experience. Starting from 200-300 and getting to 700-800. For reference a gsf win gives 45.

[jimmorrisson]

PVP will be dominated with those who have bothered to get the highest CXP gear